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Posted: 1/21/2011 6:34:18 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/21/2011 6:50:46 AM EDT by FordGuy]
Mods, before you hit the eject button on wrong forum, this doesn't seem to fit in the "ammunition" forum nor in the "hogs" forum which is my primary interest.

Background:

I saw a video of a guy killing a hog with a .17 air rifle, with what appears to be one shot to the CNS. He has a whole video series of hunting with air rifles. Seems like you have to be an expert on anatomy to do that and it is more of a novelty as far as I am concerned but damned interesting for sure! So I am withyou on the "there are better rounds for that" but I want t

For 223, I recently found otu about Barnes SXT for coyote/ferel dogs/hogs but their appears to be no equivalent in the .22 round. You know grentip is a horrible round for this as it makes laser holes through and through without anchoring the animal which runs away. (oh, and for the "shot placement" folks, I'm with you. but sometimes under field circumstances I don't get perfect shot placement and I have done some competitive rifle shooting at the All Army level.

Can you guys post your thoughts on expansion/penetration of various .22 rounds? Like you I realize there are many shape projectiles out there in .22, hollow points, round nose, aguila, but aside from repeating the conventional notions, let's challenge them. I realize this is apples to oranges but I think it could be interesting.

So for .22, penetration or expansion? whichis best? mixture of the two?

By the way, I realize some are completely opposed to hunting all but the smallest rodents with .22 and I respect your opinion fully. I might agree with that- but the air rifle guy sticks in my mind and makes me challenge my own beliefs. I certainly don't know it all and am asking with an open mind. Hey at some point some guy said "I' gonna eat teh next thing that comes out of that chickens' butt" and now we have scrambled eggs...
Link Posted: 1/21/2011 6:54:06 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/21/2011 7:20:02 AM EDT by 1IV]
There was a guy who took a turkey out into the desert. He wraped it in a denim jacket. He hit it it with 10 standard velocity .22LR from 100m all but two went all the way thru. Denim and turkey.
At 200m (10 shots) 8 hit. All but 2 went thru. All of the rounds that stoped were barely contained by the rear of the duct taped jacket. Even at 200m.

Standard 22lr out of A 20 inch 10/22.

Read it on snipers hide. He had a pictorial.

My understanding of 22lr is that it wil penetrate at 100m :18 inches of flesh (read guts)
Or 9 inches of bone, and sinew.

Most hogs will drop with a head shot inside of 100m with any 22lr Standard Velocity.

Ive killed a small sow with a jowel shot. She bled to death tho. And ran a bit.

Blaze all the hogs you want with .22LR, eradicate them as fast as you can. . But their deaths will be a messy cruel thing if hit anywhere but the skull.
As long as you see them as vermin. I have no moral qualm with .22LR or .22 mag for feral hogs.
Link Posted: 1/21/2011 7:00:53 AM EDT
he eventually ended up at 300 yards. I shoot at 300 now and so this is why I am very interested in this!
Link Posted: 1/21/2011 7:07:17 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/21/2011 7:10:18 AM EDT by AJE]

Originally Posted By FordGuy:


Can you guys post your thoughts on expansion/penetration of various .22 rounds? Like you I realize there are many shape projectiles out there in .22, hollow points, round nose, aguila, but aside from repeating the conventional notions, let's challenge them. I realize this is apples to oranges but I think it could be interesting.

I guess I'm not sure what you're asking, exactly.

Are we talking big game? Small game, or just any animal shot with rimfire .22 rounds?


Remington Subsonic = kills squirrels, pigeons, starlings, raccoons, opossums, and cats dead, when used in a Ruger 10/22, with or without a Gemtech Outback II on it.
CCI Mini-Mag = same, with a little more power.
CCI Stinger = same, but with bigger holes, more devastation, and more noise than any other .22 round I've used.

Any animal bigger than those, and I use a bigger gun. Remember... just because it's possible, doesn't mean it's a good idea.
Link Posted: 1/21/2011 7:15:03 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/21/2011 7:17:03 AM EDT by FordGuy]
I put the part in there about the guy taking hogs with an air rifle for context. I spent the last couple days in the hog hunting forum and have been AMAZED. I guess I thought of them as dangerous game that required something big but that is not always the case. I appreciate your comment but most everyone out there believes that - i was looking for any information on performance on the round - anecdotal info is fine.

Originally Posted By AJE:

Originally Posted By FordGuy:


Can you guys post your thoughts on expansion/penetration of various .22 rounds? Like you I realize there are many shape projectiles out there in .22, hollow points, round nose, aguila, but aside from repeating the conventional notions, let's challenge them. I realize this is apples to oranges but I think it could be interesting.

I guess I'm not sure what you're asking, exactly.

Are we talking big game? Small game, or just any animal shot with rimfire .22 rounds?


Remington Subsonic = kills squirrels, pigeons, starlings, raccoons, opossums, and cats dead, when used in a Ruger 10/22, with or without a Gemtech Outback II on it.
CCI Mini-Mag = same, with a little more power.
CCI Stinger = same, but with bigger holes, more devastation, and more noise than any other .22 round I've used.

Any animal bigger than those, and I use a bigger gun. Remember... just because it's possible, doesn't mean it's a good idea.


Link Posted: 1/21/2011 7:30:39 AM EDT
Anyone try these? 60gr 750+fps out of a 20in rifle. I heard they tumble?

Link Posted: 1/21/2011 7:55:20 AM EDT
Originally Posted By AMCJ76:
Anyone try these? 60gr 750+fps out of a 20in rifle. I heard they tumble?

http://www.firearmstactical.com/tacticalbriefs/volume3/number2/images/22LR_Aguila_60gr_SSS.jpg


I had a coworker hand me a box of those to try. I tried them in a CZ 452 fullstock and a Nordic AR22. They tumbled well before 50 meters in both rifles.

I generally use CCI SV or minimags.

For work where I might have to shoot a rabid skunk or racoon in urban or suburban settings I use remington high velocity golden bullet hollow points in the paper box because they're the softest and open up the easiest. I'm hoping they reduce the chance of a pass through and risk to life and property. A lot of ot her hollow points never open up and act as solids.

Link Posted: 1/21/2011 9:05:17 AM EDT
I'm a big fan of the CCI 32 gr Segmented HP's - 1640+fps and when the bullet hits, it separates into 3 pieces. It's pretty devastating on everything I've shot with it, but haven't yet tried it on hogs / feral pigs.

Link Posted: 1/21/2011 1:04:44 PM EDT
Since I was a police officer in small mid west towns I learned the best thing for suspected rabid or injured animals was a shotgun with 6 to 8 shot. This was always very effective with the least down range hazard. I've used 22's on everything from squirrels to feral cats and raccoons with high velocity round nose and HP's. The 22's require a lot better shot placement than when I used 17 M-2 and 17 HMR. The 17 HMR out of a rifle really does a number on small critters at close range pretty much any where you hit them.
Link Posted: 1/21/2011 4:43:58 PM EDT
The Aguila SSS's tumble for me too. I think it has to do with the twist rate of most 22lr barrels being to slow to stabilize a bullet that long. I have had good luck with CCI Velocitors. My 10/22 has trouble with feeding Stingers, but the Velocitor feeds fine. They will pass through a jackrabbit's shoulders, both of them, at 100 yards.
Link Posted: 1/21/2011 8:52:32 PM EDT
Back on the farm as a kid I had to do a lot of work with a .22LR rifle. The .22 has its place, but NOT on anything big. I have seen a lot of ground hogs shot with a .22 only to brush it off and run back to their dens. As for hogs, I have shot my share of those with a .22. We use to butcher them and my father made me "do the deed" on them. I soon found out why. There is one small place on a hogs skull where you can hit him and he will drop like a rock. Miss that spot and the bullet will either hurt him, and he gets very noisy, or it can even bounce off his thick skull. Hogs are not so easy to kill as some might tell you. I know!

Now, on the other hand, I hear of Eskimo's killing bears with a .22 rifle. I am sure its possible if he hit is just right. But, for me, give me something more forgiving of a slight miss. Something big enough to knock he sucker down.

As for best bullet, depends on what you are hunting.
Link Posted: 1/21/2011 9:32:30 PM EDT

Originally Posted By KB7DX:
The Aguila SSS's tumble for me too. I think it has to do with the twist rate of most 22lr barrels being to slow to stabilize a bullet that long. I have had good luck with CCI Velocitors. My 10/22 has trouble with feeding Stingers, but the Velocitor feeds fine. They will pass through a jackrabbit's shoulders, both of them, at 100 yards.

Tactical Innovations has a 1:9, .920", threaded stainless bbl. Mine came in today and I really can't wait to try it.
Link Posted: 1/22/2011 6:06:53 PM EDT
OP,
I have used CCI subsonics to shoot red foxes, skunks, raccoons, feral cats and assorted smaller critters. Mostly using the same 10/22 rifle and a Outback 2 suppressor. I have had zero problems with lethality but I have never tried them on anything the size of a hog either. Penetration is always more than needed. Good luck and let us know the results of lethality tests on larger animals.
Link Posted: 1/24/2011 9:05:45 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/24/2011 9:09:49 AM EDT by scatterbrains]
fedral game shocks and cci velocitors are my prefered wood chuck loads

ETA: the 60gr aquilas run great in my AR 22 conversion, wont cycle but shoot real good
Link Posted: 1/24/2011 6:46:59 PM EDT
If they're accurate out of your gun, CCI Velocitors hands down....

Amazing damage all the way past 200 yards.
Link Posted: 1/25/2011 10:00:18 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/25/2011 6:38:25 PM EDT
Originally Posted By scatterbrains:
fedral game shocks and cci velocitors are my prefered wood chuck loads

ETA: the 60gr aquilas run great in my AR 22 conversion, wont cycle but shoot real good


It depends on the rifle my friend and I shot the same as you. He had a 16" barrel and I had a 20" barrel we shot his 22 conversion kit in both rifle. His didn't cycle but mine did don't know way. But with a 1-9 twist those 60gr shot great out to a 100yds. We only had 100yds range to shoot at.

Stone
Link Posted: 1/25/2011 6:45:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/25/2011 6:48:43 PM EDT by Rcd567]
It seem everyone here hates Remington, but I've killed a ton of small game up to and including raccoon, fox, and coyote with Remington Yellow Jacket .22s.

Link Posted: 1/25/2011 7:51:16 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/26/2011 6:01:36 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/26/2011 6:02:48 AM EDT by Combat_Diver]
I'm interested on where this is going. In NC during small game season you can hunt coyote and hogs with only a .22 rimfire (state game regs). Now since I no longer own my old Marlin 783 in .22 WMR, I've been carrying standard velocity 40gr LRN when hunting. Haven't shoot anything but squirrels so far. On private property though you can use anything you want. Looking forward to the next season.

CD
Link Posted: 1/26/2011 10:03:09 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/26/2011 10:05:15 AM EDT by FordGuy]
Originally Posted By mike_nds:
Originally Posted By AJE:

Remember... just because it's possible, doesn't mean it's a good idea.



This^^^^^


I don't understand you guys and you obviously don't understand me. But we can still get along just fine, that is up to you. And remember, I never said this was the great big thread of awesome ideas....
Link Posted: 1/26/2011 10:26:31 AM EDT
I guess we need to get Molon to do 22 rimfire ammo comparison like he does with the 223/5.56 ammo. I have personally shot a lot of different ammo into water filled milk jugs and compared the results to the bullet measured velocity by a chronograph. From my experience you don't see hardly any expansion out of any 22 long rifle bullets whether from a pistol or rifle. If there were a ballistic tip bullet like in the 17 M2 the results might improve. I generally looked at the depth of penetration and accuracy as the key for selecting 22 LR. Bullets do unpredictable things when they hit tissue. If a shot hits at close range striking bone a 22 can fragment or be deformed. The rounds can also tumble or turn sideways which causes more damage but may drastically change the path of the bullet. Generally shooting bullets into water filled jugs showed somewhat more expansion than slugs I've recovered from game. Bullet construction and energy has a great deal to do with how a bullet penetrates targets. A hollow point bullet of higher energy may penetrate some objects better than a round nose lead bullet of less velocity or energy. The hardness of the lead bullet has an effect on how well a bullet is stabilized or deformed in the target. There are so many variables it is difficult to predict how any 22 rimfire bullet will preform in the real world. I have personally seen bullets that have veered way off the normal path with minimal effect on the game on one animal. The next animal of the same species shot in almost exact same position is cleanly killed. I think this is caused by the variables just like how a basketball bounces to different locations after hitting a back board. You change the spin, velocity, angle will all determine the direction the ball will recoil off the back board. I think when you look at bullets and their path a minute change can definitely have an effect beyond the shooter's control. Personally I believe a shotgun is very effective on small game because multiple strikes has a greater likely hood more important things will get hit let alone greater amount of total energy dumped into the target.
Link Posted: 1/26/2011 3:43:38 PM EDT
No one will like my non-tactical answer, but the best round for hunting is the most accurate round for your gun. I usually hunt with Wolf MT because that is what my rifle is sighted in for. Head shots out to 60 yds are nothing at all on ground hogs and they drop like a hot rock. I really don't care even a little bit for the hardest hitting or fastest round when I am shooting a 22. Accuracy is effective.

I had good results in ground hogs with Federal automatch in my iron sighted 10/22.




I never hunt with hollow points in a .22lr. Never needed them and they are generally not as accurate.
Link Posted: 1/26/2011 7:48:08 PM EDT
Originally Posted By fearme:
If they're accurate out of your gun, CCI Velocitors hands down....

Amazing damage all the way past 200 yards.


Bulk .22 ammo aside, how do you guys sight in a 10/22 or similar at 100+ yards?
Scopes set at that distance? Better rifle?
I'm shooting a 10/22 and would like to reach a little beyond 100 yards...(have a 4x fixed mounted right now)...and I've only read ballistics charts on bullet drop, lots of drop past 125/150+

Thanks for the info.
Link Posted: 1/30/2011 7:11:48 AM EDT
I read that same article also, the one where a guy shot a frozen turkey wrapped in denim. I saved that thread/page as a PDF file and still have it.
Good info.
Up until a few years ago I would never have considered a 22lr good for much more than squirrels past 50-75 yards, which is the way I grew up using mine.

Lately ive been trying out some of the newer "hyper velocity" loads such as these

Aguila Interceptor
CCI Velocitor

Wow, these loads, especially out of a rifle will have lots of "thump" well past 100 yards.
With my 22 bolt gun, I have to adjust my sites because they shoot so much higher.



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