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Link Posted: 9/25/2018 1:35:13 PM EDT
Originally Posted By mk4dubbin:

whyyyyyyy proprietary x39 mags
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Yes, I too am a sad panda.

Originally Posted By tifosi:
I assume it's because they need to utilize the same magazine retention system as standard AR mags, which
is what allows them to make the basic receiver platform multi-caliber.
View Quote
Other designs allow for the use of standard AK pattern "rock in" magazines in contrast to their AR pattern siblings.

A few include:

Galil ACE
Sig 556 Series
Link Posted: 9/25/2018 3:11:53 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By GaryT1776:
Yes, I too am a sad panda.

Other designs allow for the use of standard AK pattern "rock in" magazines in contrast to their AR pattern siblings.

A few include:

Galil ACE
Sig 556 Series
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Originally Posted By GaryT1776:
Originally Posted By mk4dubbin:

whyyyyyyy proprietary x39 mags
Yes, I too am a sad panda.

Originally Posted By tifosi:
I assume it's because they need to utilize the same magazine retention system as standard AR mags, which
is what allows them to make the basic receiver platform multi-caliber.
Other designs allow for the use of standard AK pattern "rock in" magazines in contrast to their AR pattern siblings.

A few include:

Galil ACE
Sig 556 Series
I'd rather have proprietary magazines with last round bolt hold open.
Link Posted: 9/25/2018 4:25:13 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By JohnnyMcEldoo:
I'd rather have proprietary magazines with last round bolt hold open.
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Originally Posted By JohnnyMcEldoo:
Originally Posted By GaryT1776:
Originally Posted By mk4dubbin:

whyyyyyyy proprietary x39 mags
Yes, I too am a sad panda.

Originally Posted By tifosi:
I assume it's because they need to utilize the same magazine retention system as standard AR mags, which
is what allows them to make the basic receiver platform multi-caliber.
Other designs allow for the use of standard AK pattern "rock in" magazines in contrast to their AR pattern siblings.

A few include:

Galil ACE
Sig 556 Series
I'd rather have proprietary magazines with last round bolt hold open.
Same here and I own hundreds of AK mags.
Link Posted: 9/25/2018 7:54:33 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Trpclfvr:

The waffle pattern is a method for weight savings while retaining strength. It is the same concept for I-beams.

Here is a photo of a TFE1042, a jet engine made by Honeywell for the Taiwan Indigenous fighter program. See the extensive weight savings from the casing. Lots of machining work to reduce the weight, while maintaining strength.

https://www.aidc.com.tw/newsimages/B-2.jpg
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I'm aware of that, but my argument is that it's not really achieving much here.

On polymer, I highly doubt you'll get much weight saving from that waffle pattern. It's about as significant as the weight saving from stippling and undercutting a Glock frame. That's a few grams tops. Not to mention triangle patterns are more rigid than square/rectangular ones, as shown in your example photo - which is why bridges and any heavy load bearing structures have triangular trusses. They did not go with a triangular pattern on the Bren.

The weight savings on the Bren 2 primarily come from the gas system changes - shortened/milled out carrier, shorter op rod, etc. Waffling a few polymer parts won't achieve much, unless they actually skeletonize them.
Link Posted: 9/25/2018 10:55:37 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Apec:

I'm aware of that, but my argument is that it's not really achieving much here.

On polymer, I highly doubt you'll get much weight saving from that waffle pattern. It's about as significant as the weight saving from stippling and undercutting a Glock frame. That's a few grams tops. Not to mention triangle patterns are more rigid than square/rectangular ones, as shown in your example photo - which is why bridges and any heavy load bearing structures have triangular trusses. They did not go with a triangular pattern on the Bren.

The weight savings on the Bren 2 primarily come from the gas system changes - shortened/milled out carrier, shorter op rod, etc. Waffling a few polymer parts won't achieve much, unless they actually skeletonize them.
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Any little bit helps contribute to the overall weight loss.  The waffle pattern is in area where the full thickness is not necessary. Going with the squares may not be as efficient as triangles, but anything helps. You do see triangles on the .308 Bren 2.
Link Posted: 9/25/2018 10:56:12 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By JohnnyMcEldoo:

I'd rather have proprietary magazines with last round bolt hold open.
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Not to mention a super lightweight magazine.
Link Posted: 9/26/2018 9:33:24 AM EDT
Anywhere online still have any of the x39 shorter barrel versions (i.e. not the 14") with the SBA3 brace? Prepper Gun Shop appears sold out.
Link Posted: 9/27/2018 4:35:17 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By JohnnyMcEldoo:

I'd rather have proprietary magazines with last round bolt hold open.
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I can't think of a single reason why a lower could not be designed to include a BHO based upon the upward pressure exerted by a standard AK pattern magazine.  Every BHO that I've seen uses the follower to activate the device.  How would the AK follower prevent the design of such a device?
Link Posted: 9/27/2018 4:37:25 PM EDT
Here's a BHO AK mag solution ....



This solution requires a different follower, but a person could chose to use standard AK mags (and thus forego the BHO).
Link Posted: 9/27/2018 6:06:12 PM EDT
I think a lot of manufacturers forego the AK mag compatibility in newer designs because of the utter crapshoot surplus AK mags are.  Variations in dimensions, materials, quality, etc.  No matter what they do, you still end up only working with 7 out of 10 magazines and having your product blamed for being junk because it won't run these rusty Egyptian magazines some dude found in grandpa's basement.

Sig 556R, PTR-32, PSA KS-47, and so on all suffer from this.  There's no way a manufacturer can realistically test for all the possibilities, so then they end up hitching their best quality on the worst mag someone can find and post all over the internet.  CZ using a proprietary mag makes sense in that world, plus it increases profits for them.  Steyr was using their own design for the 7.62x39 AUG that's turned up at some Euro shows.

The smart move would be for CZ, Steyr, and other interested parties to come up with a unified modern 7.62x39 design that was cross-compatible between firearms to help sell the idea of a refreshed ecosystem.

It's been said before, but the fetishization of the AR/AK/Glock mag is tiresome and holds back sometimes better alternatives.
Link Posted: 9/28/2018 2:10:26 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By JohnnyMcEldoo:

I'd rather have proprietary magazines with last round bolt hold open.
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vz58 magazines!!!
Link Posted: 9/28/2018 3:36:51 PM EDT
These mags seem to be working fine for the French GIGN....

Progress is a good thing and CZ doesn't make garbage.  Im sure these mags will be absolutely fine in the long run and the weight savings is fantastic.
Link Posted: 9/28/2018 10:13:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/28/2018 10:18:55 PM EDT by Flogger23m]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By GaryT1776:
Yes, I too am a sad panda.

Other designs allow for the use of standard AK pattern "rock in" magazines in contrast to their AR pattern siblings.

A few include:

Galil ACE
Sig 556 Series
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Originally Posted By GaryT1776:
Originally Posted By mk4dubbin:

whyyyyyyy proprietary x39 mags
Yes, I too am a sad panda.

Originally Posted By tifosi:
I assume it's because they need to utilize the same magazine retention system as standard AR mags, which
is what allows them to make the basic receiver platform multi-caliber.
Other designs allow for the use of standard AK pattern "rock in" magazines in contrast to their AR pattern siblings.

A few include:

Galil ACE
Sig 556 Series
Ergonomics. This is a military rifle. They're not designing the gun for you to use cheap mags. If they want to actually sell the things, they'll not use AK mags. Everyone wants last round hold open and a bolt catch paddle to hit. Yeah some countries may bite with AK mags. Vietnam did with the Galil ACE. But they're a one off (although a big one). But practically everyone else wants modern ergonomics.

Interestingly, GIGN went with this rather than .300 BO. Found that interesting.



I hope they make that stock the standard one.
Link Posted: 9/29/2018 1:42:53 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/29/2018 1:44:15 AM EDT by Trpclfvr]
Failed To Load Title


This was posted on another forum. Interesting in that a 20 round AK PMag was modified to fit.
Link Posted: 9/29/2018 2:38:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/29/2018 2:38:45 PM EDT by tifosi]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Flogger23m:

Ergonomics. This is a military rifle. They're not designing the gun for you to use cheap mags. If they want to actually sell the things, they'll not use AK mags. Everyone wants last round hold open and a bolt catch paddle to hit. Yeah some countries may bite with AK mags. Vietnam did with the Galil ACE. But they're a one off (although a big one). But practically everyone else wants modern ergonomics.

Interestingly, GIGN went with this rather than .300 BO. Found that interesting.

https://defence.pk/pdf/attachments/g1-jpg.481202/

I hope they make that stock the standard one.
View Quote
Yeah, I like that stock they are using. Hopefully that will eventually make it to the States.

Attachment Attached File
Link Posted: 9/29/2018 5:07:24 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Flogger23m:

Ergonomics. This is a military rifle. They're not designing the gun for you to use cheap mags. If they want to actually sell the things, they'll not use AK mags. Everyone wants last round hold open and a bolt catch paddle to hit. Yeah some countries may bite with AK mags. Vietnam did with the Galil ACE. But they're a one off (although a big one). But practically everyone else wants modern ergonomics.
View Quote
Galil ACE Users:

Cameroon: In service with Battalion d'intervention rapide[12]

Chad[12]

Chile: Selected as the Chilean Army's new 5.56 mm standard-issue rifle.[13] In 2014, the ACE began to be deployed in the Chilean Army.[14]

Colombia: Is the new standard-issue assault rifle of the Army, Navy (including Colombian Marine Corps), Air Force and Police of Colombia.[15] Manufactured by an agreement between Indumil and IWI for export markets in Colombia.

El Salvador[16]

Guatemala: 3,000 ACE 31s used by the Guatemalan Police.[17]

Haiti: Used by certain Haitian police officers.[18]

Honduras: ACE 21 used by the Honduran Army and Air Force.[citation needed]

Ivory Coast[12]

Mexico: Used by certain personnel of the Federal Police.[19]

Nigeria[12]

Paraguay: Used by the special forces of the Paraguayan National Police against insurgents in the north and in major drug operations on the Brazil–Paraguay border.

Peru: The Peruvian government has plans to produce the ACE under license, establishing a factory to produce up to 2000 rifles per month.[20][21]

Philippines: Philippine National Police uses the type as one of its major assault rifles as of 2018. San Juan City Police uses the ACE 21.[22] The Philippine Drug Enforcement Agency use both the ACE-N 21 and the ACE-N 22.[23]

South Sudan: Used by the South Sudanese Armed Forces.[19][24] Chambered in 7.62x39 caliber.[12]

Thailand: Royal Thai Army & Royal Thai Police.[25]

Uganda: Galil ACES chambered in 7.62x39 caliber.[12]

Ukraine: Produced under license since August 2014 by RPC Fort; ACE 22 as the “Fort-227”,[3] ACE 31 as the “Fort-228”,[26] and ACE 52 as the “Fort-229”.[27]

Vietnam: ACE 31 and 32 have been selected as the standard-issue assault rifles in the People's Army of Vietnam, to gradually replace their current AK-47-derived weapons.[28] IWI has established a $100 million factory in Vietnam, to produce an unspecified number of Galil ACE assault rifles for the People's Army of Vietnam.[29]
Link Posted: 9/29/2018 5:08:38 PM EDT
I spoke to IWI at the NRA Convention, and they specifically stated they designed the 7.62x39mm ACE to work with standard AK magazines because of the proliferation of those mags on the international market.
Link Posted: 9/29/2018 7:57:15 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By tifosi:
Yeah, I like that stock they are using. Hopefully that will eventually make it to the States.

https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/78310/1920px-GIGN22_Domenjod_140618-687167.JPG
View Quote
Does anyone know what model of ACOG the GIGN uses?  It looks like an ACOG, doesn't it?
Link Posted: 9/29/2018 8:46:25 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By beanz2:

Does anyone know what model of ACOG the GIGN uses?  It looks like an ACOG, doesn't it?
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TA02, battery-powered LED version.
Link Posted: 9/29/2018 8:48:51 PM EDT
I really wish that I was as enthused about this as so many seem to be.
Link Posted: 9/29/2018 9:26:43 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By vmpglenn:

TA02, battery-powered LED version.
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Thanks.

Does Trijicon offer a TA02 with 7.62x39 BDC?  I only see .223 and .300 BO on their site.
Link Posted: 10/1/2018 10:22:07 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/1/2018 10:25:53 AM EDT by lilMAC25]
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Originally Posted By beanz2:
Thanks.

Does Trijicon offer a TA02 with 7.62x39 BDC?  I only see .223 and .300 BO on their site.
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Originally Posted By beanz2:
Originally Posted By vmpglenn:

TA02, battery-powered LED version.
Thanks.

Does Trijicon offer a TA02 with 7.62x39 BDC?  I only see .223 and .300 BO on their site.
Browe does. Better glass, better LED tech (automatic adjustment of brightness according to light level AT the target).

http://www.browe-inc.com/products/4x32-BROWE-Tactical-Optic-%252d-Custom-Built.html
Link Posted: 10/1/2018 5:19:50 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By lilMAC25:

Browe does. Better glass, better LED tech (automatic adjustment of brightness according to light level AT the target).

http://www.browe-inc.com/products/4x32-BROWE-Tactical-Optic-%252d-Custom-Built.html
View Quote
Do you own a Browe? Looking for actual user reviews.
Link Posted: 10/1/2018 5:30:37 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By GaryT1776:
Galil ACE Users:

Cameroon: In service with Battalion d'intervention rapide[12]

Chad[12]

Chile: Selected as the Chilean Army's new 5.56 mm standard-issue rifle.[13] In 2014, the ACE began to be deployed in the Chilean Army.[14]

Colombia: Is the new standard-issue assault rifle of the Army, Navy (including Colombian Marine Corps), Air Force and Police of Colombia.[15] Manufactured by an agreement between Indumil and IWI for export markets in Colombia.

El Salvador[16]

Guatemala: 3,000 ACE 31s used by the Guatemalan Police.[17]

Haiti: Used by certain Haitian police officers.[18]

Honduras: ACE 21 used by the Honduran Army and Air Force.[citation needed]

Ivory Coast[12]

Mexico: Used by certain personnel of the Federal Police.[19]

Nigeria[12]

Paraguay: Used by the special forces of the Paraguayan National Police against insurgents in the north and in major drug operations on the Brazil–Paraguay border.

Peru: The Peruvian government has plans to produce the ACE under license, establishing a factory to produce up to 2000 rifles per month.[20][21]

Philippines: Philippine National Police uses the type as one of its major assault rifles as of 2018. San Juan City Police uses the ACE 21.[22] The Philippine Drug Enforcement Agency use both the ACE-N 21 and the ACE-N 22.[23]

South Sudan: Used by the South Sudanese Armed Forces.[19][24] Chambered in 7.62x39 caliber.[12]

Thailand: Royal Thai Army & Royal Thai Police.[25]

Uganda: Galil ACES chambered in 7.62x39 caliber.[12]

Ukraine: Produced under license since August 2014 by RPC Fort; ACE 22 as the “Fort-227”,[3] ACE 31 as the “Fort-228”,[26] and ACE 52 as the “Fort-229”.[27]

Vietnam: ACE 31 and 32 have been selected as the standard-issue assault rifles in the People's Army of Vietnam, to gradually replace their current AK-47-derived weapons.[28] IWI has established a $100 million factory in Vietnam, to produce an unspecified number of Galil ACE assault rifles for the People's Army of Vietnam.[29]
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Originally Posted By GaryT1776:
Originally Posted By Flogger23m:

Ergonomics. This is a military rifle. They're not designing the gun for you to use cheap mags. If they want to actually sell the things, they'll not use AK mags. Everyone wants last round hold open and a bolt catch paddle to hit. Yeah some countries may bite with AK mags. Vietnam did with the Galil ACE. But they're a one off (although a big one). But practically everyone else wants modern ergonomics.
Galil ACE Users:

Cameroon: In service with Battalion d'intervention rapide[12]

Chad[12]

Chile: Selected as the Chilean Army's new 5.56 mm standard-issue rifle.[13] In 2014, the ACE began to be deployed in the Chilean Army.[14]

Colombia: Is the new standard-issue assault rifle of the Army, Navy (including Colombian Marine Corps), Air Force and Police of Colombia.[15] Manufactured by an agreement between Indumil and IWI for export markets in Colombia.

El Salvador[16]

Guatemala: 3,000 ACE 31s used by the Guatemalan Police.[17]

Haiti: Used by certain Haitian police officers.[18]

Honduras: ACE 21 used by the Honduran Army and Air Force.[citation needed]

Ivory Coast[12]

Mexico: Used by certain personnel of the Federal Police.[19]

Nigeria[12]

Paraguay: Used by the special forces of the Paraguayan National Police against insurgents in the north and in major drug operations on the Brazil–Paraguay border.

Peru: The Peruvian government has plans to produce the ACE under license, establishing a factory to produce up to 2000 rifles per month.[20][21]

Philippines: Philippine National Police uses the type as one of its major assault rifles as of 2018. San Juan City Police uses the ACE 21.[22] The Philippine Drug Enforcement Agency use both the ACE-N 21 and the ACE-N 22.[23]

South Sudan: Used by the South Sudanese Armed Forces.[19][24] Chambered in 7.62x39 caliber.[12]

Thailand: Royal Thai Army & Royal Thai Police.[25]

Uganda: Galil ACES chambered in 7.62x39 caliber.[12]

Ukraine: Produced under license since August 2014 by RPC Fort; ACE 22 as the “Fort-227”,[3] ACE 31 as the “Fort-228”,[26] and ACE 52 as the “Fort-229”.[27]

Vietnam: ACE 31 and 32 have been selected as the standard-issue assault rifles in the People's Army of Vietnam, to gradually replace their current AK-47-derived weapons.[28] IWI has established a $100 million factory in Vietnam, to produce an unspecified number of Galil ACE assault rifles for the People's Army of Vietnam.[29]
BREN came out after the ACE. Besides, most of those are in 5.56. Even looking at that list the newest users of the ACE in 5.56 seem to be getting the N (NATO, STANAG) variant. The initial rock in Galil mags were the most popular but it seems people prefer the ergonomics of the N. I know the N has a bolt catch, I assume the original ACE didn't like the original Galil.

Assuming reliability is on par, I see the BREN in 7.62x39 taking over the few customers the ACE 31/32 managed to gather. Still a niche, as almost everyone is moving to 5.56.
Link Posted: 10/2/2018 9:50:03 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/2/2018 9:58:51 AM EDT by lilMAC25]
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Originally Posted By AKSU:
Do you own a Browe? Looking for actual user reviews.
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Originally Posted By AKSU:
Originally Posted By lilMAC25:

Browe does. Better glass, better LED tech (automatic adjustment of brightness according to light level AT the target).

http://www.browe-inc.com/products/4x32-BROWE-Tactical-Optic-%252d-Custom-Built.html
Do you own a Browe? Looking for actual user reviews.
I did. I traded it (for a DBAL D2) after I sold the rifle it was on (Sig 556R) when Sig quit supporting the rifle.

The glass (Schott) was absolutely stupendous (and I’m a believe in ACOGs, LOVE my TA33). The tech was ridiculously good. The reticle self adjusts to light intensity at the target or if you prefer you can set intensity yourself. Auto off, auto on.

If I had owned another 7.62x39 rifle at the time I’d still own that optic.
Link Posted: 10/2/2018 12:23:34 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By lilMAC25:

I did. I traded it (for a DBAL D2) after I sold the rifle it was on (Sig 556R) when Sig quit supporting the rifle.

The glass (Schott) was absolutely stupendous (and I’m a believe in ACOGs, LOVE my TA33). The tech was ridiculously good. The reticle self adjusts to light intensity at the target or if you prefer you can set intensity yourself. Auto off, auto on.

If I had owned another 7.62x39 rifle at the time I’d still own that optic.
View Quote
II think I’m going to order one for the CZ Bren S2 7.62x39 I just bought from Prepper. I  need to decide between the BCO and BTO. I like the integral picatinny mount on the Tactical model. I wonder if it’s that big of a deal between the Titanium and forged aluminum housings. Thoughts?
Link Posted: 10/2/2018 6:28:11 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By tifosi:
Yeah, I like that stock they are using. Hopefully that will eventually make it to the States.

https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/78310/1920px-GIGN22_Domenjod_140618-687167.JPG
View Quote
Nice looking rifle.  I still can't get past the use of torque bolts to retain the barrel, though.  Feels like a "tack on" approach, particularly when it requires 6 of them.  1 or 2 would be a cleaner implementation.  But it was obviously based heavily on the FN, so that's how it goes.

The bolt release inside the trigger guard seems awkward.  In all other regards, though, it looks pretty awesome.
Link Posted: 10/2/2018 7:52:12 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Master_Blaster:
Nice looking rifle.  I still can't get past the use of torque bolts to retain the barrel, though.  Feels like a "tack on" approach, particularly when it requires 6 of them.  1 or 2 would be a cleaner implementation.  But it was obviously based heavily on the FN, so that's how it goes.

The bolt release inside the trigger guard seems awkward.  In all other regards, though, it looks pretty awesome.
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Originally Posted By Master_Blaster:
Originally Posted By tifosi:
Yeah, I like that stock they are using. Hopefully that will eventually make it to the States.

https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/78310/1920px-GIGN22_Domenjod_140618-687167.JPG
Nice looking rifle.  I still can't get past the use of torque bolts to retain the barrel, though.  Feels like a "tack on" approach, particularly when it requires 6 of them.  1 or 2 would be a cleaner implementation.  But it was obviously based heavily on the FN, so that's how it goes.

The bolt release inside the trigger guard seems awkward.  In all other regards, though, it looks pretty awesome.
It's actually not that bad. I don't have a lot of trigger time on mine yet (I just got it a couple weeks ago), but the controls in the trigger guard are growing on me.
They are small enough to be out of the way and not prone to be touched while firing, but if you retrain yourself, they are actually more
convenient than the normal control on the left.

Also, it's a ridiculously simple mechanism. It's all just one piece that slides up (or down) and is attached to the standard bolt hold open lever that an AR would have.
(Push up, and it pushes up on the bolt hold lever, push down and it pulls the bolt hold lever down with it.)
If it really bothered you, it'd be stupid simple to remove and not effect anything else at all, and you could use the control lever on the left, just like any AR.
Link Posted: 10/2/2018 8:43:40 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/2/2018 8:44:46 PM EDT by lilMAC25]
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Originally Posted By AKSU:
II think I’m going to order one for the CZ Bren S2 7.62x39 I just bought from Prepper. I  need to decide between the BCO and BTO. I like the integral picatinny mount on the Tactical model. I wonder if it’s that big of a deal between the Titanium and forged aluminum housings. Thoughts?
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Originally Posted By AKSU:
Originally Posted By lilMAC25:

I did. I traded it (for a DBAL D2) after I sold the rifle it was on (Sig 556R) when Sig quit supporting the rifle.

The glass (Schott) was absolutely stupendous (and I’m a believe in ACOGs, LOVE my TA33). The tech was ridiculously good. The reticle self adjusts to light intensity at the target or if you prefer you can set intensity yourself. Auto off, auto on.

If I had owned another 7.62x39 rifle at the time I’d still own that optic.
II think I’m going to order one for the CZ Bren S2 7.62x39 I just bought from Prepper. I  need to decide between the BCO and BTO. I like the integral picatinny mount on the Tactical model. I wonder if it’s that big of a deal between the Titanium and forged aluminum housings. Thoughts?
It’s really up to you. If the Ti housing is that big a deal, it’s only $90 more. I asked Bobro to make a mount for mine.

Is there any weight difference at all? I can’t recall.
Link Posted: 10/2/2018 10:03:40 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By lilMAC25:

It’s really up to you. If the Ti housing is that big a deal, it’s only $90 more. I asked Bobro to make a mount for mine.

Is there any weight difference at all? I can’t recall.
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Aluminum is 1 oz lighter
Link Posted: 10/5/2018 7:47:31 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By AKSU:
Aluminum is 1 oz lighter
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Originally Posted By AKSU:
Originally Posted By lilMAC25:

It’s really up to you. If the Ti housing is that big a deal, it’s only $90 more. I asked Bobro to make a mount for mine.

Is there any weight difference at all? I can’t recall.
Aluminum is 1 oz lighter
Maybe the Ti is more rugged?
Link Posted: 10/6/2018 12:38:39 PM EDT
Picked mine up today.



Link Posted: 10/6/2018 12:55:53 PM EDT
I already have the 11", but still want the 14" version just so I can mount the CZ Bayonet on it. So tempting...
Link Posted: 10/6/2018 1:57:14 PM EDT
Is that thing long enough to pin and weld?
Link Posted: 10/6/2018 3:26:31 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By SpyHawk:
Is that thing long enough to pin and weld?
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The 14” barrel is, with a long enough muzzle device.
Link Posted: 10/6/2018 6:00:19 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Trpclfvr:
I already have the 11", but still want the 14" version just so I can mount the CZ Bayonet on it. So tempting...
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I’d like to get a 9” barrel, when they’re available, more mags and the factory stock. Going to Form 1 this soon.
Link Posted: 10/16/2018 7:06:49 PM EDT
Military Arms Channel just did a video. > Link.
Link Posted: 10/16/2018 9:39:35 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By JohnnyMcEldoo:
I'd rather have proprietary magazines with last round bolt hold open.
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Originally Posted By JohnnyMcEldoo:
Originally Posted By GaryT1776:
Originally Posted By mk4dubbin:

whyyyyyyy proprietary x39 mags
Yes, I too am a sad panda.

Originally Posted By tifosi:
I assume it's because they need to utilize the same magazine retention system as standard AR mags, which
is what allows them to make the basic receiver platform multi-caliber.
Other designs allow for the use of standard AK pattern "rock in" magazines in contrast to their AR pattern siblings.

A few include:

Galil ACE
Sig 556 Series
I'd rather have proprietary magazines with last round bolt hold open.
I'd rather have VZ58 magazines...and I don't know why the Czechs wouldn't as well

To CZ's credit, the 7.62 mags seem nice.  I also don't see why you couldn't use plentiful 7.62 AR magazines with the AR insert, either.
Link Posted: 10/16/2018 9:41:28 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Apec:
I'm aware of that, but my argument is that it's not really achieving much here.

On polymer, I highly doubt you'll get much weight saving from that waffle pattern. It's about as significant as the weight saving from stippling and undercutting a Glock frame. That's a few grams tops. Not to mention triangle patterns are more rigid than square/rectangular ones, as shown in your example photo - which is why bridges and any heavy load bearing structures have triangular trusses. They did not go with a triangular pattern on the Bren.

The weight savings on the Bren 2 primarily come from the gas system changes - shortened/milled out carrier, shorter op rod, etc. Waffling a few polymer parts won't achieve much, unless they actually skeletonize them.
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Originally Posted By Apec:
Originally Posted By Trpclfvr:

The waffle pattern is a method for weight savings while retaining strength. It is the same concept for I-beams.

Here is a photo of a TFE1042, a jet engine made by Honeywell for the Taiwan Indigenous fighter program. See the extensive weight savings from the casing. Lots of machining work to reduce the weight, while maintaining strength.

https://www.aidc.com.tw/newsimages/B-2.jpg
I'm aware of that, but my argument is that it's not really achieving much here.

On polymer, I highly doubt you'll get much weight saving from that waffle pattern. It's about as significant as the weight saving from stippling and undercutting a Glock frame. That's a few grams tops. Not to mention triangle patterns are more rigid than square/rectangular ones, as shown in your example photo - which is why bridges and any heavy load bearing structures have triangular trusses. They did not go with a triangular pattern on the Bren.

The weight savings on the Bren 2 primarily come from the gas system changes - shortened/milled out carrier, shorter op rod, etc. Waffling a few polymer parts won't achieve much, unless they actually skeletonize them.
The waffling would be more appreciated on the inside, providing places for dirt & much to scrape into, rather than binding (though it would make both cleaning and molding far more complicated).  It's for looks.  Personally, I think carving away the vertical bars in the grids alone would do wonders for the look --it would look long, and fast!
Link Posted: 10/16/2018 9:46:32 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By GaryT1776:
I spoke to IWI at the NRA Convention, and they specifically stated they designed the 7.62x39mm ACE to work with standard AK magazines because of the proliferation of those mags on the international market.
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LOL, and because it's a bone-stock AK magwell underneath all that plastic.  Development costs vs. a new 7.62x39 magazine were...minimal.
Link Posted: 10/16/2018 9:52:09 PM EDT
Anyone comment yet on how paper-thin the receiver is in those lightening cuts on the side?  It's the one design choice that gives me some pause...but on the other hand, it's probably 7075-T6 and pretty dang tough, plus you'd have to strike the gun with something sharp to avoid the thicker sides of the pockets.  I dunno how much better the SCAR would handle things in that department (and I don't plan on braining any of my guns with a ball-peen hammer)

Mostly the receiver looks like it'd be annoying to machine as nicely as they did it
Link Posted: 10/16/2018 9:58:50 PM EDT
I'm loving the looks of the flash suppressor on this rifle, I'm wondering if it will be made available by itself in 1/2 x 28 so we can put it on anything we want to.
Link Posted: 10/17/2018 11:30:49 PM EDT
Has there been any word on what the differences the "official" release will have vs the one they just did?
Link Posted: 10/17/2018 11:34:29 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By 556Cliff:
I'm loving the looks of the flash suppressor on this rifle, I'm wondering if it will be made available by itself in 1/2 x 28 so we can put it on anything we want to.
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So new this firearm to hit the market, to early to tell if they will be offered by itself.

But it is threaded 1/2x28
Link Posted: 10/18/2018 1:30:06 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By 556Cliff:
I'm loving the looks of the flash suppressor on this rifle, I'm wondering if it will be made available by itself in 1/2 x 28 so we can put it on anything we want to.
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I'm sure sooner or later someone will suppress theirs.   Then the Bren flash suppressor will be available in the EE.
Link Posted: 10/18/2018 3:44:06 AM EDT
Can anyone who has a Bren 2s in 5.56, confirm if their flash supressor is bored out bigger for the 7.62x39?
Link Posted: 10/18/2018 10:39:00 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/18/2018 10:39:14 AM EDT by Blackhalo]
I'm waiting for the .308... think I finally will have found a home for my SF 7.62 mini. Hopefully we see it sometime next year.
Link Posted: 10/18/2018 10:53:59 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By Seattle206:
Do they have any plans to release it in .308?
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Yes. Just watched the video yesterday. Should start shipping Early spring.
Link Posted: 10/18/2018 11:21:05 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By AKSU:
Picked mine up today.

https://i.imgur.com/TFRvLt9.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/qyb7WSR.jpg
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Man, that’s not making it any easier to pass on.
Link Posted: 10/18/2018 3:58:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/18/2018 3:58:58 PM EDT by ar671]
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Originally Posted By AKSU:
Picked mine up today.

https://i.imgur.com/TFRvLt9.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/qyb7WSR.jpg
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Nice

I picked up the 11"
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