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Posted: 12/21/2011 2:10:34 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/21/2011 2:11:24 PM EST by Colt_sporter]
Just wondering. This would help me decide on a optic for my build.
Link Posted: 12/21/2011 2:26:42 PM EST

Originally Posted By Colt_sporter:

Just wondering. This would help me decide on a optic for my build.

Subsonic yes, supersonic no, according to chart.
Link Posted: 1/6/2012 7:14:41 AM EST
They're THAT sensitive to recoil?!?
Link Posted: 1/6/2012 7:19:28 AM EST

Originally Posted By RenegadeX:

Originally Posted By Colt_sporter:

Just wondering. This would help me decide on a optic for my build.

Subsonic yes, supersonic no, according to chart.

What chart?

This is of interest to me, since I intend to purchase a PVS-14 for my .300 BLK. Hard to believe that the optic will handle 5.56 recoil and not the (subjectively) lower recoil of the supersonic .300 BLK.


Link Posted: 1/6/2012 7:20:49 AM EST
ITT and L3 both say 5.56 max unless it is a weapons grade tube (high halo). Most people feel 6.8 SPC is fine and a good compromise to the 5.56 for hunting. Unless I know the tube specs I would not risk anything higher. Most won't break but some will and it will cost you about $1,500.00 or so to replace the tube.
Link Posted: 1/6/2012 7:41:45 AM EST
Originally Posted By eracer:

Originally Posted By RenegadeX:

Originally Posted By Colt_sporter:

Just wondering. This would help me decide on a optic for my build.

Subsonic yes, supersonic no, according to chart.

What chart?

This is of interest to me, since I intend to purchase a PVS-14 for my .300 BLK. Hard to believe that the optic will handle 5.56 recoil and not the (subjectively) lower recoil of the supersonic .300 BLK.




Cj7Hawk has a recoil chart he made. I thought it was tacked but don't see it. It must be in the archives or my search skills are fail. He will post the link when he sees this. Maybe we can get it tacked so it does not keep getting lost.
Link Posted: 1/6/2012 9:51:20 AM EST
Originally Posted By Dino1130:
ITT and L3 both say 5.56 max unless it is a weapons grade tube (high halo). Most people feel 6.8 SPC is fine and a good compromise to the 5.56 for hunting. Unless I know the tube specs I would not risk anything higher. Most won't break but some will and it will cost you about $1,500.00 or so to replace the tube.
Can the tube substitution be made ahead of time to avoid the problem, and if so what would the price difference be?

Link Posted: 1/6/2012 10:04:57 AM EST
[Last Edit: 1/6/2012 10:13:23 AM EST by Dino1130]
Originally Posted By Addicted2Fish:
Originally Posted By Dino1130:
ITT and L3 both say 5.56 max unless it is a weapons grade tube (high halo). Most people feel 6.8 SPC is fine and a good compromise to the 5.56 for hunting. Unless I know the tube specs I would not risk anything higher. Most won't break but some will and it will cost you about $1,500.00 or so to replace the tube.
Can the tube substitution be made ahead of time to avoid the problem, and if so what would the price difference be?



I think ITT charges a couple hundred more for a WG tube. Not sure and you are best to ask TNVC. Yes, you can order any tube you like when you buy a scope from a dealer who is not just a mail order drop and ship outfit.

You can put a WG tube in a PVS-14 but it still won't be covered under warranty because the housing is only rated for 5.56. We tried to explain this to a prominent person here but no joy. A PVS-14 has a weak mounting point that in all honesty was never designed to go on a weapon. It was an afterthought and when they did testing they deemed the 5.56 risk acceptable. The other weak point in a 14 is the tube indexing pin. They can break with a hard jolt. I have fixed my fair share of broken ones.

If you want a rifle scope I am sure TNVC can put whatever tube you like in it.

A WG tube is nothing more than a high halo tube. You can do the same thing by paying attention to tube specs. I highly doubt most dealers waste the extra money for a WG tube when they can do the same thing by looking at specs. I know I would not unless a customer truly wanted a WG tube and was willing to pay the difference.
Link Posted: 1/6/2012 10:12:07 AM EST
[Last Edit: 1/6/2012 10:15:35 AM EST by Addicted2Fish]
Hmm, I see. How much better is the PVS14 than say a M845? What's a good choice below $2500 or so that's going to be more suited for my purposes that's nearest in image quality to the PVS?
Link Posted: 1/6/2012 10:15:30 AM EST
Originally Posted By Addicted2Fish:
OK, so perhaps I'd be best off looking at alternatives then if I'll be carrying this in the field for rigorous tasks. Are the M845 and D300 more durable?


Tell me what your intended use is and I can help more.

In general Gen 2 tubes in a M845 and D-300 are more recoil resistant. The M845 housing is made to club gorillas if all else fails.

Link Posted: 1/6/2012 10:16:49 AM EST
[Last Edit: 1/6/2012 10:18:49 AM EST by Addicted2Fish]
My intended use is night hunting for coyotes and feral hogs, then of course occasional fun w/ new shooters and other important outreach efforts. So for coyotes and plinking it's .223, but for knocking down hogs it'll be 6.8 and possibly 7.62x54R.

...I really cringe to think that I might have to buy even more stuff than I planned on... This is like Black Rifle Disease and I haven't even gotten started yet!
Link Posted: 1/6/2012 10:18:54 AM EST
Originally Posted By Addicted2Fish:
Hmm, I see. How much better is the PVS14 than say a M845? What's a good choice below $2500 or so that's going to be more suited for my purposes that's nearest in image quality to the PVS?


Not really. Dealers like TNVC will warranty a PVS-14 for 6.8 because it is really close in G force to a 5.56 and only a small bit over the rating. Tubes can fail at anytime regardless of recoil. Most are very tough but a very small percentage go tits up once in a while. Have not seen any recoil failures with 6.8 SPC.

Link Posted: 1/6/2012 10:21:32 AM EST
If you use your 14 for 6.8 SPC or 5.56 you will be fine. DO NOT put it on a .308 ! Don't care who says it is OK. I use an IR laser and my 14 stays on my head. I don't worry about recoil as my 14 never sees the rifle.
Link Posted: 1/6/2012 11:19:44 AM EST

Originally Posted By Dino1130:
If you use your 14 for 6.8 SPC or 5.56 you will be fine. DO NOT put it on a .308 ! Don't care who says it is OK. I use an IR laser and my 14 stays on my head. I don't worry about recoil as my 14 never sees the rifle.

FYI-

300 Blackout is not .308
Link Posted: 1/6/2012 11:28:57 AM EST
Originally Posted By RenegadeX:

Originally Posted By Dino1130:
If you use your 14 for 6.8 SPC or 5.56 you will be fine. DO NOT put it on a .308 ! Don't care who says it is OK. I use an IR laser and my 14 stays on my head. I don't worry about recoil as my 14 never sees the rifle.

FYI-

300 Blackout is not .308


I was referring to him wanting to use a 7.62×54mmR for hogs and coyotes . I guess it is closer to a 30-06 but still way to much recoil. The .308 reference was just a FYI for him in case he gets any good ideas.

Link Posted: 1/6/2012 11:58:42 AM EST

Originally Posted By RenegadeX:

Originally Posted By Dino1130:
If you use your 14 for 6.8 SPC or 5.56 you will be fine. DO NOT put it on a .308 ! Don't care who says it is OK. I use an IR laser and my 14 stays on my head. I don't worry about recoil as my 14 never sees the rifle.

FYI-

300 Blackout is not .308

I would be shocked if the .300 BLK has more recoil energy than the 6.8.
Link Posted: 1/6/2012 12:07:11 PM EST
I was glad I asked this question before putting the 14 on my SBR 9mm build. Apparently the 9mm is harder on the scope than the 5.56.
Link Posted: 1/6/2012 1:52:59 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/6/2012 1:57:03 PM EST by Addicted2Fish]
Originally Posted By Dino1130:
Originally Posted By RenegadeX:

Originally Posted By Dino1130:
If you use your 14 for 6.8 SPC or 5.56 you will be fine. DO NOT put it on a .308 ! Don't care who says it is OK. I use an IR laser and my 14 stays on my head. I don't worry about recoil as my 14 never sees the rifle.

FYI-

300 Blackout is not .308


I was referring to him wanting to use a 7.62×54mmR for hogs and coyotes . I guess it is closer to a 30-06 but still way to much recoil. The .308 reference was just a FYI for him in case he gets any good ideas.



I'll probably get an M845 for the PSL for use of it at night if I go that route. What I'm reading, though, is that there's a limitation on range for NV anyway which mitigates the difference between 6.8 and .308 so I might not even do that. If I can't see past a 6.8's effective range then there's no point in using something more powerful. For coyotes I don't see much point in not using 5.56 for that same reason.
Link Posted: 1/7/2012 6:44:59 AM EST
I would opt for a 14 with a ir laser over the 845. Don't get me wrong the 845 is a great scope, but your limited to what you can do with the device. A 14 will allow you to navigate and give you situation awareness while your hunting. If you plan on having only one nvd the 14 is the way to go. Its much more versatile. I use my monos way more than my weapon mounted sights. Of course the best way to hunt IMO is to have a 14 on your head and a weapon mounted sight along with a ir laser for pigs that jump out on you quick.
Link Posted: 1/7/2012 8:45:09 AM EST
[Last Edit: 1/7/2012 8:46:31 AM EST by Dino1130]
Originally Posted By km2006dmax:
I would opt for a 14 with a ir laser over the 845. Don't get me wrong the 845 is a great scope, but your limited to what you can do with the device. A 14 will allow you to navigate and give you situation awareness while your hunting. If you plan on having only one nvd the 14 is the way to go. Its much more versatile. I use my monos way more than my weapon mounted sights. Of course the best way to hunt IMO is to have a 14 on your head and a weapon mounted sight along with a ir laser for pigs that jump out on you quick.


I very much agree with this. Get a 14 first. Not ideal for all things but will get the job done. Once you save some and build up gear you can add a NV rifle scope. If you have nothing right now get the 14.

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