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Posted: 6/17/2009 6:09:35 PM EDT
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With the last couple of years something has amazed me....
FN Herstal released the SCAR on the civilian market FN Herstal releases a FN 2000 to the civilian market FN Herstal releases a FN P90 to the civilian market Kel-Tec released the RFB on the civilian market Kel-tec released the SU-16 series of carbines Mircotech released a US Clone of the AUG (SGT-556) TPD USA released a US Clone of the AUG (TPD AXR) Robinson Arms releases the XCR Steyr releases a AUG to the civilian market again Sig Sauer releases the Sig 556. An Americanized Sig 552 CZ-USA releases a Semi-Auto clone of the Vz.58 Armalite releases a modern Ar-18, the AR-180B (no longer on their list) Ruger redesigned the Mini-14 and released 20/30rd magazines again Ruger released a Piston AR-15 Everyone and their mother are making AR-15s Charles Daily is saying that they'll bring over the IMI Tavor Khar Arms is even in the market with the M1 Carbine Magpul redesigned the Masada a thousand times and nothing is still out there. They've already spent time on other possible projects. A .308 version of the rifle.... the FMG9 SMG, and some other projects but the ACR still isn't off the drawing board. A rifle that I was gladly going to spend my money on has lost my interest. I truly wish success for Magpul.... they make good products but I truly believe that they have gotten to big in ego. great designs.... but no effort behind them. Why couldn't they simply apply for their FFL instead of having Cerberus buy the design and go through the entire issue of first Bushmaster and now Remington making and marketing the rifle? The market is doing quite well for self defense rifles. It's a booming business. You have your well priced rifles like the lower end AR-15s and the AK series of rifles. For those really into it you ahve the $1,500-$3,000 price range of firearms and yet Magpul in my opinion has screwed the pooch on this one.....Many folks have lost their interest in this firearm simply because of everything else out on the market..... It's been a good couple of years for gun owners..... let's hope it continues and I hope that Magpul is able to pull themselves out of the fire from this.... another rifle on the market is a good thing..... I think that they might of pulled the same mistake as Beretta with their RX4 rifle.... I do believe though that Beretta will bring over the ARX 160 and the RX4 is still alive in Italy as the Benelli Mr1.... also word is Beretta USA is selling them as NFA Title II Firearms for LEO Only Sales. But once again...... I hope that Magpul is able to correct this issue and bring their rifle to the market. Vaporware isn't a good thing to have on one's record as such a young company. |
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It must be nice to oversimplify, lets try to remember some of the larger contexts to your list. You are right that all of these companies should be commended for what they have brought to the market, but it is not like the companies you list have released their products problem free, or without other contributing factors.
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With the last couple of years something has amazed me.... FN Herstal released the SCAR on the civilian market- After 5 years of development and with military support FN Herstal releases a FN 2000 to the civilian market- After how many years? FN Herstal releases a FN P90 to the civilian market- Again, how many years was the P90 in production before they brought out a civilian version? Kel-Tec released the RFB on the civilian market- In what type of numbers? Kel-tec released the SU-16 series of carbines Mircotech released a US Clone of the AUG (SGT-556) TPD USA released a US Clone of the AUG (TPD AXR) Robinson Arms releases the XCR- Remember the two weeks fiasco? Steyr releases a AUG to the civilian market again Sig Sauer releases the Sig 556. An Americanized Sig 552- Remember the shitstorm everyone threw when it first came out? CZ-USA releases a Semi-Auto clone of the Vz.58 Armalite releases a modern Ar-18, the AR-180B (no longer on their list)- Yeah, they suspended production to meet their AR15 production demands. Somehow its okay for Armalite to do that, but if Bushmaster delays the ACR they have committed some type of irreparable sin. Ruger redesigned the Mini-14 and released 20/30rd magazines again- They redesigned the Mini-14 because the tooling was worn out. Ruger released a Piston AR-15 Everyone and their mother are making AR-15s- Its easy to assemble parts. Charles Daily is saying that they'll bring over the IMI Tavor Khar Arms is even in the market with the M1 Carbine Magpul redesigned the Masada a thousand times and nothing is still out there. They've already spent time on other possible projects. A .308 version of the rifle.... the FMG9 SMG, and some other projects but the ACR still isn't off the drawing board. A rifle that I was gladly going to spend my money on has lost my interest. I truly wish success for Magpul.... they make good products but I truly believe that they have gotten to big in ego. great designs.... but no effort behind them (Do you have some type of direct knowledge of their effort, or are you just making an overly general claim that you cannot substantiate?). Why couldn't they simply apply for their FFL instead of having Cerberus buy the design and go through the entire issue of first Bushmaster and now Remington making and marketing the rifle? (Probably because its not that simple.) The market is doing quite well for self defense rifles. It's a booming business. You have your well priced rifles like the lower end AR-15s and the AK series of rifles. For those really into it you ahve the $1,500-$3,000 price range of firearms and yet Magpul in my opinion has screwed the pooch on this one.....Many folks have lost their interest in this firearm simply because of everything else out on the market..... (I wonder how many people will actually remember all of the bitching and moaning when the ACR is released? How many people remember all of the problems with the release of the XCR, or let that drive their decision to buy a product from Robinson Armament?) It's been a good couple of years for gun owners..... let's hope it continues and I hope that Magpul is able to pull themselves out of the fire from this.... another rifle on the market is a good thing..... I think that they might of pulled the same mistake as Beretta with their RX4 rifle.... I do believe though that Beretta will bring over the ARX 160 and the RX4 is still alive in Italy as the Benelli Mr1.... also word is Beretta USA is selling them as NFA Title II Firearms for LEO Only Sales. But once again...... I hope that Magpul is able to correct this issue and bring their rifle to the market. Vaporware isn't a good thing to have on one's record as such a young company. |
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My take on it... +1 Thrasymachas( beat me to alot of it that's what I get for not refreshing this page before I post)
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With the last couple of years something has amazed me.... FN Herstal released the SCAR on the civilian market relevant FN Herstal releases a FN 2000 to the civilian market first displayed to public in 2001 FN Herstal releases a FN P90 to the civilian market The p90 was developed in the late 1980s, they just put a longer barrel on it. Kel-Tec released the RFB on the civilian market relevant point Kel-tec released the SU-16 series of carbines been around longer that a couple of years Mircotech released a US Clone of the AUG (SGT-556) wow a copy of another gun TPD USA released a US Clone of the AUG (TPD AXR) see above (no disrespect to these guys I think what they are doing is great) Robinson Arms releases the XCR relevant even though it has been out quite a while.. ETA forgot about the two weeks thing 
Steyr releases a AUG to the civilian market again design around from the 80s Sig Sauer releases the Sig 556. An Americanized Sig 552 relevant, but not a new design, and took a while to get right CZ-USA releases a Semi-Auto clone of the Vz.58 pretty much an AK clone... Armalite releases a modern Ar-18, the AR-180B (no longer on their list) old design just different materials and take AR mags Ruger redesigned the Mini-14 and released 20/30rd magazines again really Ruger released a Piston AR-15 nothing like being 8 or 9th place in the piston race Everyone and their mother are making AR-15s really Charles Daily is saying that they'll bring over the IMI Tavor This not being released doesn't help your point does it? Khar Arms is even in the market with the M1 Carbine WWII design, how innovative Didn't the SCAR have at least 5 years of development(If you give MAGPUL/BUSHMASTER/REM 5 years it puts the ACR release in 2012)? If you have all of these other great options why are you so concerned with the ACR? I am sure that Magpul will take your lecture on the gun market, product design and business strategy under advisement. |
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I do hope that whoever is in charge now has great success with this weapon system, but I will not buy it personally if/when it comes out. I set aside money for this rifle, and I took Magpul's word when they first marketed this rifle for civilians first. When they gave it to Bushmaster I had a feeling stupid shit was on the way. They completely changed their target market, and what was a slap in the face personally for me was when a couple of people in the know said it was never intended for the civilian market in the first place. Not only did they go back on their word, some tried to deny what they said in the beginning, and that tells me that they don't care about my money.
The money that I had saved for this weapon is going to a SCAR, I have a feeling that the SCAR is more expensive, but I would rather spend more $ on a company that wants my business then a company who would have charged less $ and does not. After this whole mess Magpul will never see another dime from me again. The weapon that was first marketed for the military is now in civilian hands, and the weapon that was first targeted for civilians was changed to target military/movie sales. Just like HK, Magpul makes great stuff, but unfortunately like HK, they will never have my business again. If Magpul stayed true to what they originally marketed this rifle for, I would still be waiting and willing to buy this weapon for whatever cost they demanded, and I just want you to know that this has nothing to do with how long this rifle is talking to reach the market. I am not trying to tell anyone how to run a business, I want all companies in this project to succeed, but I think they should take notice when a loyal customer who used their products on his issued M4 on deployments feels like they stopped giving a fuck about his business. |
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With the last couple of years something has amazed me.... FN Herstal released the SCAR on the civilian market FN Herstal releases a FN 2000 to the civilian market FN Herstal releases a FN P90 to the civilian market Kel-Tec released the RFB on the civilian market Kel-tec released the SU-16 series of carbines Mircotech released a US Clone of the AUG (SGT-556) TPD USA released a US Clone of the AUG (TPD AXR) Robinson Arms releases the XCR Steyr releases a AUG to the civilian market again Sig Sauer releases the Sig 556. An Americanized Sig 552 CZ-USA releases a Semi-Auto clone of the Vz.58 Armalite releases a modern Ar-18, the AR-180B (no longer on their list) Ruger redesigned the Mini-14 and released 20/30rd magazines again Ruger released a Piston AR-15 Everyone and their mother are making AR-15s Charles Daily is saying that they'll bring over the IMI Tavor Khar Arms is even in the market with the M1 Carbine Magpul redesigned the Masada a thousand times and nothing is still out there. They've already spent time on other possible projects. A .308 version of the rifle.... the FMG9 SMG, and some other projects but the ACR still isn't off the drawing board. A rifle that I was gladly going to spend my money on has lost my interest. I truly wish success for Magpul.... they make good products but I truly believe that they have gotten to big in ego. great designs.... but no effort behind them. Why couldn't they simply apply for their FFL instead of having Cerberus buy the design and go through the entire issue of first Bushmaster and now Remington making and marketing the rifle? The market is doing quite well for self defense rifles. It's a booming business. You have your well priced rifles like the lower end AR-15s and the AK series of rifles. For those really into it you ahve the $1,500-$3,000 price range of firearms and yet Magpul in my opinion has screwed the pooch on this one.....Many folks have lost their interest in this firearm simply because of everything else out on the market..... It's been a good couple of years for gun owners..... let's hope it continues and I hope that Magpul is able to pull themselves out of the fire from this.... another rifle on the market is a good thing..... I think that they might of pulled the same mistake as Beretta with their RX4 rifle.... I do believe though that Beretta will bring over the ARX 160 and the RX4 is still alive in Italy as the Benelli Mr1.... also word is Beretta USA is selling them as NFA Title II Firearms for LEO Only Sales. But once again...... I hope that Magpul is able to correct this issue and bring their rifle to the market. Vaporware isn't a good thing to have on one's record as such a young company. You're forgetting the amount of time it took to get all those rifles to the market. For the SCAR specifically it took 5 years plus whatever design time it had before that (probably at least 2 years). The Masada hasn't even had 1/3 of that yet. They could release it 2 years from now and it will still would have come out faster than the SCAR did. |
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I do hope that whoever is in charge now has great success with this weapon system, but I will not buy it personally if/when it comes out. I set aside money for this rifle, and I took Magpul's word when they first marketed this rifle for civilians first (When did they ever say this? Magpul has made overtures that they wanted to get the ACR to the civilian market, and they have also said that there are production agreements in the license agreement, but that does not mean that they said they would not pursue the military market as well, its not mutually exclusive. I think claiming that Magpul has forgotten the civilian market is a bit melodramatic.). When they gave it to Bushmaster I had a feeling stupid shit was on the way. They completely changed their target market, and what was a slap in the face personally for me was when a couple of people in the know said it was never intended for the civilian market in the first place (They also said one of their motivations for the Masada was to design what they thought the XM8 should have been. So trying for a competition for the next Army rifle seems to be right in line with ONE of their motivations.). Not only did they go back on their word, some tried to deny what they said in the beginning, and that tells me that they don't care about my money. The money that I had saved for this weapon is going to a SCAR, I have a feeling that the SCAR is more expensive, but I would rather spend more $ on a company that wants my business then a company who would have charged less $ and does not (This is a bit myopic, do you really think that we would have ever seen a civilian SCAR if FN did not have a military contract? I would imagine they are making way more off the military then they are from the civilian market. Its not like FN has been designing their guns for the civilian market first.) After this whole mess Magpul will never see another dime from me again. The weapon that was first marketed for the military is now in civilian hands, and the weapon that was first targeted for civilians was changed to target military/movie sales (Probably because with a military contract it makes it less costly to produce a civilian version of the rifle. To do so the other way around would be much riskier financially.). Just like HK, Magpul makes great stuff, but unfortunately like HK, they will never have my business again. If Magpul stayed true to what they originally marketed this rifle for, I would still be waiting and willing to buy this weapon for whatever cost they demanded, and I just want you to know that this has nothing to do with how long this rifle is talking to reach the market. I am not trying to tell anyone how to run a business, I want all companies in this project to succeed, but I think they should take notice when a loyal customer who used their products on his issued M4 on deployments feels like they stopped giving a fuck about his business. |
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My take on it... +1 Thrasymachas( beat me to alot of it that's what I get for not refreshing this page before I post) Quoted:
With the last couple of years something has amazed me.... FN Herstal released the SCAR on the civilian market relevant FN Herstal releases a FN 2000 to the civilian market first displayed to public in 2001AWB still in effect. FN Herstal releases a FN P90 to the civilian market The p90 was developed in the late 1980s, they just put a longer barrel on it. See above. Kel-Tec released the RFB on the civilian market relevant point Kel-tec released the SU-16 series of carbines been around longer that a couple of years Mircotech released a US Clone of the AUG (SGT-556) wow a copy of another gunPretty much every AW avalible today has been influenced, or copied from older desings. TPD USA released a US Clone of the AUG (TPD AXR) see above (no disrespect to these guys I think what they are doing is great) Robinson Arms releases the XCR relevant even though it has been out quite a while.. ETA forgot about the two weeks thing
Steyr releases a AUG to the civilian market again design around from the 80s Sig Sauer releases the Sig 556. An Americanized Sig 552 relevant, but not a new design, and took a while to get right CZ-USA releases a Semi-Auto clone of the Vz.58 pretty much an AK clone...Shows your knowledge here, the Vz58 is NO WERE near a AK47, other than shape, and caliber. Armalite releases a modern Ar-18, the AR-180B (no longer on their list) old design just different materials and take AR magsPrtetty much the same operating design as the new wonder guns. Ruger redesigned the Mini-14 and released 20/30rd magazines again really Ruger released a Piston AR-15 nothing like being 8 or 9th place in the piston raceAnd having a better value for your money. Everyone and their mother are making AR-15s really Charles Daily is saying that they'll bring over the IMI Tavor This not being released doesn't help your point does it?At least someone is trying. Khar Arms is even in the market with the M1 Carbine WWII design, how innovativeCombat proven. Didn't the SCAR have at least 5 years of development(If you give MAGPUL/BUSHMASTER/REM 5 years it puts the ACR release in 2012)? If you have all of these other great options why are you so concerned with the ACR? I am sure that Magpul will take your lecture on the gun market, product design and business strategy under advisement. |
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Military contract doesn't exclude civilian production.
If the rifle is ready to go than it's ready to go. If it needs a lot more R&D than so be it, because I don't want a rifle that's not fit for work. Problem is though for Remington/Bushmaster/Magpul is that it might end up like the HK 416. Had the HK 416 come out for civilian sale when it first was ready years ago it would have sold very well even at HK prices. Now, with all the great Gas Piston ARs out there who in their right minds (other than HK fanatics) are going to pay that much for it? Already rifles like the XCR and SCAR as well that outclass it in terms of features and modularity. Every day that the ACR doesn't come out the competition keeps working. How big is the ACR market going to be if it doesn't win the Army contract and comes out when we get all these other "wizbang" rifles like maybe the Beretta ARX 160, Tavor from IWI, or who knows what other rifles are going to show up at SHOT 2010. Could be something crazy out there we haven't even heard of ready to go. If that happens then the ACR will come and folks will be like "yeah, well that's nice, but I don't know X-rifle looks pretty nice too." |
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My take on it... +1 Thrasymachas( beat me to alot of it that's what I get for not refreshing this page before I post) Quoted:
With the last couple of years something has amazed me.... FN Herstal released the SCAR on the civilian market relevant FN Herstal releases a FN 2000 to the civilian market first displayed to public in 2001AWB still in effect. so what, thumb hole stock and muzzle break FN Herstal releases a FN P90 to the civilian market The p90 was developed in the late 1980s, they just put a longer barrel on it. See above. Same as above with 10 rd mag. Kel-Tec released the RFB on the civilian market relevant point Kel-tec released the SU-16 series of carbines been around longer that a couple of years Mircotech released a US Clone of the AUG (SGT-556) wow a copy of another gunPretty much every AW avalible today has been influenced, or copied from older designs. The OP's original complaint was the the ACR w/ 2 yrs of development should be out now, and then referenced these other designs, I am pointing out that these were guns from mature 20+ yr old designs TPD USA released a US Clone of the AUG (TPD AXR) see above (no disrespect to these guys I think what they are doing is great) Robinson Arms releases the XCR relevant even though it has been out quite a while.. ETA forgot about the two weeks thing
Steyr releases a AUG to the civilian market again design around from the 80s Sig Sauer releases the Sig 556. An Americanized Sig 552 relevant, but not a new design, and took a while to get right CZ-USA releases a Semi-Auto clone of the Vz.58 pretty much an AK clone...Shows your knowledge here, the Vz58 is NO WERE near a AK47, other than shape, and caliber. So the piston not being attached to the bolt carrier no wear near the AK design, ok but irrelevant to the OP's original point Armalite releases a modern Ar-18, the AR-180B (no longer on their list) old design just different materials and take AR magsPrtetty much the same operating design as the new wonder guns. Ruger redesigned the Mini-14 and released 20/30rd magazines again really Ruger released a Piston AR-15 nothing like being 8 or 9th place in the piston raceAnd having a better value for your money. The expectation from the OP that Magpul should have already released the ACR in a two year design window, Ruger didn't design a gun, they designed a operating system for the AREveryone and their mother are making AR-15s really Charles Daily is saying that they'll bring over the IMI Tavor This not being released doesn't help your point does it?At least someone is trying. So Magpul/Bushy/Rem are not? Khar Arms is even in the market with the M1 Carbine WWII design, how innovativeCombat proven. But designed 50+ years ago Didn't the SCAR have at least 5 years of development(If you give MAGPUL/BUSHMASTER/REM 5 years it puts the ACR release in 2012)? If you have all of these other great options why are you so concerned with the ACR? I am sure that Magpul will take your lecture on the gun market, product design and business strategy under advisement. |
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Hey I am not arguing that they wanted to sell it to the government or an agency, but the first tech sheet I remember that this thing was supposed to head to the civilian market first. That's what did it for me, I am not arguing what they are doing as a company, hell if they came out and stated first that this product was going for a mil contract, and then years later I see it on the rack at my local funshop's wall, that would have been cool by me. The problem is they did come out in the beginning and say it was headed to the civilian market first, the people's rifle, and then things turned to shit. I know this weapon, like all Magpul stuff, will kick ass, shit, I would like to see soldiers carrying this thing because I hate the M4, but I feel like someone along the line threw the civilian shooters under the bus.
I am not the only one who says this, there are a lot of people, especially here on Arfcom, and they felt the same way. Before each deployment, I would buy stuff from Magpul, pmags, rail covers, pistol grips, and shit I thought I was the coolest guy in my Battalion because my CO let me put my own Magpul stock on my M4. After I got out I didn't have an AR, my brother did, so I sold all my stuff to him. I was very pleased with their stuff, and my brother now loves his Magpul/6920. I am not stupid, I know they are a business, of course they would want the better financial contracts, but for me the way the civilian shooter went from first to last put a taste in my mouth that is going to take awhile to wash out. Maybe my anger should be more at Bushmaster/Remington/, or their parent company, because it seemed after the transfer of owners thats when things went to shit. I know Magpul likes to sell its shit to all freedom loving Americans both mil and civ. Maybe I do let small shit get the better of me, and believe me I can be wrong about things. If/when it does come out, if you see me braggin on here that I bought one, call me out on it, and I will write the biggest ass kissing apology to whoever you deem should read it. |
All I have to say is more money to fund other rifles, scars proven acr isn't ,I don't blame magpul their rent has to be paid too and sports cars have to be bought  . Yea remington has contracts for the m24 sws so what? their trying to replace the m16/m4 weapons platform during a war good luck with that and when it flops in the military arena they'll slap a 26 inch barrel on it and give it a mossy oak finish toss in a couple of free 20 rounder's and maybe even a remington truckers hat and come crawling back to the civilian market with it, sorry aint gonna cut it at that point rant off 
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Lesson Learned:
If you don't have the money don't scrimp and save for a rifle you "think" is coming out. Buy what is available. Don't wait for new rifles to be released, because it's an exercise in frustration. If later on the rifle you wanted is released take the one you purchased before it and sell it. Now days with the make-up of D.C. isn't the time to be holding on waiting. Plenty of damn fine firearms available now for purchase. |
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Lesson Learned: If you don't have the money don't scrimp and save for a rifle you "think" is coming out. Buy what is available. Don't wait for new rifles to be released, because it's an exercise in frustration. If later on the rifle you wanted is released take the one you purchased before it and sell it. Now days with the make-up of D.C. isn't the time to be holding on waiting. Plenty of damn fine firearms available now for purchase. ^This. That's the reason I bought 2 XCRs. I wanted an ACR/Masada.....but frankly, I just don't see it being available to civilians anytime in the near future. I think Cerebus or whoever is doing the product planning is really screwing the proverbial pooch. The US military isn't going to buy it. If anything, they'll go SCAR. Foreign military may buy the ACR, but who knows? That leaves the US civilian market....and if they can get it into production for that $1400-1600 figure they originally quoted (LOL....I doubt that'll happen).....it'll sell like hotcakes.....UNLESS THERE'S ANOTHER BAN! Then they're stuck with it. Another thing: While I understand the reasoning of using existing, cheaper, AR bbls.....why keep a relatively weak bolt design? That's one major advantage I see in the XCR over the ACR or SCAR....a big ass bolt with giant lugs. Anyway, just my 2 cents. Sean |
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Lesson Learned: If you don't have the money don't scrimp and save for a rifle you "think" is coming out. Buy what is available. Don't wait for new rifles to be released, because it's an exercise in frustration. If later on the rifle you wanted is released take the one you purchased before it and sell it. Now days with the make-up of D.C. isn't the time to be holding on waiting. Plenty of damn fine firearms available now for purchase. ^This. That's the reason I bought 2 XCRs. I wanted an ACR/Masada.....but frankly, I just don't see it being available to civilians anytime in the near future. I think Cerebus or whoever is doing the product planning is really screwing the proverbial pooch. The US military isn't going to buy it. If anything, they'll go SCAR. Foreign military may buy the ACR, but who knows? That leaves the US civilian market....and if they can get it into production for that $1400-1600 figure they originally quoted (LOL....I doubt that'll happen).....it'll sell like hotcakes.....UNLESS THERE'S ANOTHER BAN! Then they're stuck with it. Another thing: While I understand the reasoning of using existing, cheaper, AR bbls.....why keep a relatively weak bolt design? That's one major advantage I see in the XCR over the ACR or SCAR....a big ass bolt with giant lugs. Anyway, just my 2 cents. Sean I never got this line. Yeah, relatively weak by design... i guess. At work we shoot ~10K on FA before retiring uppers and I've only seen 2 bolt lugs fail. This is probably out of the last 30 uppers under the same extreme conditions. How many people have seen lugs on a military rifle fail? How many lugs are there really that fail? I think that advantages of using the AR bbl GREATLY outweighs the perceived flaws the lug design of the AR bolt lugs. |
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This gun is so freaking far from a civilian release. Dont even bother thinking you are going to own one in the near future. Q3-Q4 2010 at best. Never at worst.
"The people's rifle?" Yeah that was BS. $1400? That is most likely BS too. Get the XCR or a SCAR and call it a day if you want a next-gen carbine. The XCR PDW is going to be the heat. Should be out before summer is over. Here is a youtube vid of it being tested and a photo of Terra who does repairs at Robarm holding it http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FAIpEnVuhtw 
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Another thing: While I understand the reasoning of using existing, cheaper, AR bbls.....why keep a relatively weak bolt design? That's one major advantage I see in the XCR over the ACR or SCAR....a big ass bolt with giant lugs. Anyway, just my 2 cents. Sean In the latest issue of American Rifleman the author mentioned the same thing and his opinion was the multi-lug design aids in the accuracy and that is why FN incorporated it. |
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This gun is so freaking far from a civilian release. Dont even bother thinking you are going to own one in the near future. Q3-Q4 2010 at best. Never at worst. "The people's rifle?" Yeah that was BS. $1400? That is most likely BS too. Get the XCR or a SCAR and call it a day if you want a next-gen carbine. The XCR PDW is going to be the heat. Should be out before summer is over. Here is a youtube vid of it being tested and a photo of Terra who does repairs at Robarm holding it http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FAIpEnVuhtw http://home.comcast.net/~firearmspics/PDW6.jpg Do want! 
Very reminiscent of the Knight's PDW which will NEVER make it to the civilian market. 
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This gun is so freaking far from a civilian release. Dont even bother thinking you are going to own one in the near future. Q3-Q4 2010 at best. Never at worst. How do you know this? It's fact. Don't you know this is the internet and the only proof you need comes from your butt? It's cool cause you don't have to cite it.
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This gun is so freaking far from a civilian release. Dont even bother thinking you are going to own one in the near future. Q3-Q4 2010 at best. Never at worst. How do you know this? It wont be released till after the enhanced carbine solicitation specs are released and trials are held. Is enhanced carbine even funded? It was supposed to happen this summer, and there isnt a peep about it from anywhere. If Remington wins, the ACR will have to be abused for and tested for another 2 or 3 years before the final design to be fielded will be determined. Look how long the SCAR took. Then the military needs their share. Then come civilians. There will not be a civilian version released till military standing is determined. If the ACR loses the trials, Bushmaster will still need to tool up to mass produce the guns. Its going to be awhile, if ever. |
| I've been following the damn ACR ever since the beginning like so many here. I have lost faith. Delivery times have been changed multiple times, Bushmaster states that only select customers will be able to purchase this year (What ever the hell select customers means, if anything, should BM even sell just one this year), etc. Another issue is MAGPUL supplying the polymer pieces. It's hard for me to believe that MAGPUL isn't going to have issues supplying the furniture by the thousands to BM, after seeing the long delays on their UBR stocks and the like. If Charles Daily does bring the IMI Tavor to the civilian market I may just end up with one of those and to hell with the ACR. I bet the Tavor will make it out long before the ACR does.... |
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I've been following the damn ACR ever since the beginning like so many here. I have lost faith. Delivery times have been changed multiple times, Bushmaster states that only select customers will be able to purchase this year (What ever the hell select customers means, if anything, should BM even sell just one this year), etc. Another issue is MAGPUL supplying the polymer pieces. It's hard for me to believe that MAGPUL isn't going to have issues supplying the furniture by the thousands to BM, after seeing the long delays on their UBR stocks and the like. If Charles Daily does bring the IMI Tavor to the civilian market I may just end up with one of those and to hell with the ACR. I bet the Tavor will make it out long before the ACR does.... early to mid 2010 for the debute, I believe. ...
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This gun is so freaking far from a civilian release. Dont even bother thinking you are going to own one in the near future. Q3-Q4 2010 at best. Never at worst. How do you know this? It wont be released till after the enhanced carbine solicitation specs are released and trials are held. Is enhanced carbine even funded? It was supposed to happen this summer, and there isnt a peep about it from anywhere. If Remington wins, the ACR will have to be abused for and tested for another 2 or 3 years before the final design to be fielded will be determined. Look how long the SCAR took. Then the military needs their share. Then come civilians. There will not be a civilian version released till military standing is determined. If the ACR loses the trials, Bushmaster will still need to tool up to mass produce the guns. Its going to be awhile, if ever. That's a reasonable speculation, but is still speculation. |
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I've been following the damn ACR ever since the beginning like so many here. I have lost faith. Delivery times have been changed multiple times, Bushmaster states that only select customers will be able to purchase this year (What ever the hell select customers means, if anything, should BM even sell just one this year), etc. Another issue is MAGPUL supplying the polymer pieces. It's hard for me to believe that MAGPUL isn't going to have issues supplying the furniture by the thousands to BM, after seeing the long delays on their UBR stocks and the like. If Charles Daily does bring the IMI Tavor to the civilian market I may just end up with one of those and to hell with the ACR. I bet the Tavor will make it out long before the ACR does.... early to mid 2010 for the debute, I believe. ...Well they're busting their butts for a SHOT Show or NRA Convention unveiling of the Tavor. So 2010 could be the year of the Tavor. |
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I've spent the money saved for a ACR about 5 times now. I don't blame Magpul. They make great stuff. I think they realized early on that they bit off more than they can chew trying to mass produce a rifle. So they turned it over to Bushy/Rem or whoever. Evidently they aren't up to the task either. They have dropped the ball big time in my opinion and they don't seem to give a crap.
I was so pumped on this rifle. They made it sound like "anytime now". It wouldn't have pissed me off if they hadn't hyped the damn thing up so much. Shot Show, YouTube, etc. Hey, look how great this rifle is that you will never fucking have. lol! I never even think about it now. To heck with the ACR. They missed the boat. They can shove that rifle right up their behind as far as I'm concerned. The king of vaporware. Poorly handled PR. I bought a XCR and am glad I did. Just bought a Ruger SR-556. I'm normally not a huge Ruger fan. Say what you want about them but a month ago we hear about their new rifle, today it's in our hands. Well played and very refreshing. My next batch of money will go to the SCAR when prices come down to a realistic level and they get their shit together on the finish. lol! |
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The ACR project continues to move forward. Between Bushmaster, Remington and Magpul, we are all happy with the progress we have made. The ACR continues to be a front burner project.
As a side note I need to clarify a few things. I've read a lot of comments that say guys like the Masada better than the ACR and that BM and Rem have changed the design too much. To be honest the ACR and the Masada are very similiar with minimal differences and any changes made have inhanced the overall rifle. We (Magpul) have worked hand in hand with both BM and Rem as the ACR has continued to elvolved. Oh, and for the haters that whine vaporware, flame on. Take into consideration the duration of development time other small arms have endured. In some recent cases over 8 years. If the ACR was ready to move forward with now Rem/BM would. It is not in any of our best interests to push a product that will not satisfy the end user right? When the ACR's ready to rock the masses will have them in their hands. Just know that all hands are on deck. Pics! 
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As I said, I hold no animosity toward Magpul. I'm assuming Bushmaster is responsible for posting the inaccurate info on their website that had everyone thinking the ACR was close to being available.
Here is a quote from Bushmasters site. Second paragraph: "The Bushmaster ACR (Adaptive Combat Rifle) will initially be offered in 5.56 NATO, available for law enforcement and civilian purchase early 2009. This release will be followed by military ACR versions in the later in 2009."
We are past that release date. Not by much I guess. Yeah some other rifles took 8 years but that's not what we were told to expect. I know that things have been pretty much fubar this year for all companies. A better course of action might have been not to commit to a release time frame and just say that it is still being refined and no projected release date has been established. People hate to be BSed and many folks are starting to feel they have been, hence the negative attitude and vaporware atmosphere. Hopefully things will come around. I'm sure they will sell like hotcakes when they do come out. At this point many are done holding their breath though. |
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As I said, I hold no animosity toward Magpul. I'm assuming Bushmaster is responsible for posting the inaccurate info on their website that had everyone thinking the ACR was close to being available. Here is a quote from Bushmasters site. Second paragraph: "The Bushmaster ACR (Adaptive Combat Rifle) will initially be offered in 5.56 NATO, available for law enforcement and civilian purchase early 2009. This release will be followed by military ACR versions in the later in 2009."
We are past that release date. Not by much I guess. Yeah some other rifles took 8 years but that's not what we were told to expect. I know that things have been pretty much fubar this year for all companies. A better course of action might have been not to commit to a release time frame and just say that it is still being refined and no projected release date has been established. People hate to be BSed and many folks are starting to feel they have been, hence the negative attitude and vaporware atmosphere. Hopefully things will come around. I'm sure they will sell like hotcakes when they do come out. At this point many are done holding their breath though. The ACR is being redesigned to be a superior offering to compete for the next generation US Army infantry carbine and subcompact weapon requirement and will be available to select customers in 2009.
I'm pretty sure this notice supersedes that one( earlier notice), besides i know people are upset about the released timetables that have past, but i cant think of a single company who hasn't delayed/missed a release date or two. |
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The ACR is being redesigned to be a superior offering to compete for the next generation US Army infantry carbine and subcompact weapon requirement and will be available to select customers in 2009.
I'm pretty sure this notice supersedes that one( earlier notice), besides i know people are upset about the released timetables that have past, but i cant think of a single company who has delayed/missed a release date or two. I think you meant "but i cant think of a single company who hasn't delayed/missed a release date or two." Either way, just saying taking 5 minutes to update the obsolete post at Bushy saying "hey kids, the rifle will be ready any minute" might alleviate some of the negative feedback. |
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The ACR is being redesigned to be a superior offering to compete for the next generation US Army infantry carbine and subcompact weapon requirement and will be available to select customers in 2009.
I'm pretty sure this notice supersedes that one( earlier notice), besides i know people are upset about the released timetables that have past, but i cant think of a single company who has delayed/missed a release date or two. I think you meant "but i cant think of a single company who hasn't delayed/missed a release date or two." Either way, just saying taking 5 minutes to update the obsolete post at Bushy saying "hey kids, the rifle will be ready any minute" might alleviate some of the negative feedback. yes thank you for correcting me on that, they didnt actually update but right under it they put a note saying 2009 availability, but i agree maybe they could have boldened the link and unboldened the one you were refering to. |
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