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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 2/23/2002 11:59:45 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/23/2002 12:26:36 PM EDT by Woodcarver]
Just curious which round is preferred (if you could only choose 1)out of the 4 shown and why. I have always liked the 9mm, ammo is cheap and plentiful, plenty of knock down power especially using a +P round, good variety of bullet weights.

Link Posted: 2/23/2002 12:17:57 PM EDT
Where is the choice for "all of the above"?
Link Posted: 2/23/2002 12:24:43 PM EDT
Where is the choice for "all of the above"?


handguns.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?id=771
Link Posted: 2/23/2002 12:36:54 PM EDT
Ever since I went to .40 I have no use for 9mm. Personally I prefer the .40, .45, .357 mag and .44 mag.
Link Posted: 2/23/2002 1:16:59 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/23/2002 2:44:18 PM EDT
What, no 357 SIG?

The 40 S&W choice should be combined with 357 SIG for Glocks and SIGs. It makes it more fair against the much more powerful 10MM and the traditional 45. Plus, if you switch out a few parts for ~$40 and a barrel/magazine swap a Glock 40/357 becomes a 9MM. Three for one, sort of.
Link Posted: 2/23/2002 3:13:16 PM EDT
I dunno. I like the .40 as it's got more ass than a 9mm, but still allows me to carry 10 in a compact frame. It's a good trade off between the high capacity 9mm zip-guns and the makes-big-holes-but-I-gotta-reload-in-7 .45.

If I had to choose a second though, it'd be the .45.
Link Posted: 2/23/2002 3:32:02 PM EDT
The 10MM will do everything the other rounds listed can do and more. You can download for target work to 9MM levels or ,with an aftermarket barrel, load up some smokin' rounds that none of the other choices listed can touch with respect to FPE.

IMHO, the 10MM is the finest auto caliber ever devised.
Link Posted: 2/23/2002 4:44:57 PM EDT

Make mine the NINE. Walther P99QA 17rds of Look the F*** Out here comes another one.

Think about it....... A dozen BG's come to your house late one night and their not selling Girl Scout cookies.

You only have time to pick up your pistol that is loaded with a full clip. No time to get the extra mag because one BG just busted down the back door. Luckily, you, who practice often and just installed new nite sights. Posess the ability to take each intruder out with one well placed shot. 7rd mag you die, 10rd mag you die....17rd mag you win by attrition

If we are talking about a situation with one man coming.......45 If we are talking about multiple targets and no-reload.... 9mm, no question. I believe that is why most of the military uses this caliber.

I do love them big damn .40 holes though.....

Link Posted: 2/23/2002 5:35:38 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/23/2002 5:58:27 PM EDT by misterhemi]

Originally Posted By blackeye:

Make mine the NINE. Walther P99QA 17rds of Look the F*** Out here comes another one.

Think about it....... A dozen BG's come to your house late one night and their not selling Girl Scout cookies.

You only have time to pick up your pistol that is loaded with a full clip. No time to get the extra mag because one BG just busted down the back door. Luckily, you, who practice often and just installed new nite sights. Posess the ability to take each intruder out with one well placed shot. 7rd mag you die, 10rd mag you die....17rd mag you win by attrition



I keep my spare mags with my defense guns. Yes, 7 rounds with my 1911 and 10 rounds with my USP.
This is only an issue IF I can't get to a mag.




If we are talking about a situation with one man coming.......45 If we are talking about multiple targets and no-reload.... 9mm, no question. I believe that is why most of the military uses this caliber.



NOPE they ONLY abandoned the 1911 to be compliant with the rest of NATO for logistical reasons.

Many SOCOM/Special Forces units have returned to the 45 as they were disappointed with the 9mm and the whole reason d'etre for the HK Mk23,Mod 0.





I do love them big damn .40 holes though.....




same here as I also have a 40 and may get another!

So far it has a great record.
Link Posted: 2/23/2002 5:41:53 PM EDT
I like 9mm because it is a NATO round.

If anything ever happens I know I will be able to get my hands on some after my stockpile is gone.
Link Posted: 2/23/2002 5:44:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By blackeye:

Think about it....... A dozen BG's come to your house late one night and their not selling Girl Scout cookies.

You only have time to pick up your pistol that is loaded with a full clip. No time to get the extra mag because one BG just busted down the back door. Luckily, you, who practice often and just installed new nite sights. Posess the ability to take each intruder out with one well placed shot. 7rd mag you die, 10rd mag you die....17rd mag you win by attrition.




You're kidding right?

If 12 guys bent on killing or raping you come to your house in the middle of the night, you sir are a dead man. You might hurt half or more of 'em, but 12 on one? Actually, it's kind of a funny scenario... you trolling?
Link Posted: 2/23/2002 6:03:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By maxwell05:
I like 9mm because it is a NATO round.

If anything ever happens I know I will be able to get my hands on some after my stockpile is gone.



While that is *kinda* true, it really only would apply in time of war.

You could easily liberate some from downed troops.

I've never been impressed with the performance of the 9mm but even so its better than throwing rocks.
Link Posted: 2/23/2002 6:15:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/23/2002 6:33:08 PM EDT by rpd_fire]

Originally Posted By blackeye:

Think about it....... A dozen BG's come to your house late one night and their not selling Girl Scout cookies.

You only have time to pick up your pistol that is loaded with a full clip. No time to get the extra mag because one BG just busted down the back door. Luckily, you, who practice often and just installed new nite sights. Posess the ability to take each intruder out with one well placed shot. 7rd mag you die, 10rd mag you die....17rd mag you win by attrition.




Thats what the 12gauge is for.
Sits Right beside the bed.
Link Posted: 2/23/2002 6:32:13 PM EDT
Hi all, I really liked the one about 12 BG's (whatever they maybe?).Living iv Bavaria Germany Iam allowed too own and do own 17,19 & 32 rnd. mag's for my Glock 17. I personally like the Magtech light soft points because they are sort of lightly countersunk and they are fast and furious.

I prefer 9mm from the mentioned caliber's, but I'd much rather use my Colt Python in good old .357mag. Once you start pumping those .357mag. rnds. out in confined spaces you tend to find out the diference between the men and the boy's....

About them big hole's, I like the little accurate one's with larger exit hole's.

be good, no be better....
Link Posted: 2/23/2002 6:41:57 PM EDT

You're kidding right?

If 12 guys bent on killing or raping you come to your house in the middle of the night, you sir are a dead man. You might hurt half or more of 'em, but 12 on one? Actually, it's kind of a funny scenario... you trolling?



I have a no troll policy in my pre-nup, thank you very much.

Seriously, just using an imaginary situation to make a point. The differences in the sizes of the caliber choices offered would not bother me so much as shot placement and number of rounds available. I would feel very secure with any of the above calibers.

Link Posted: 2/23/2002 8:01:45 PM EDT
Blackeye, assuming everyone here is a good shot, and ALL 12 guys are coming from the same direction:

Once you kill the first 7, you would have to assume the next 5 would decide to leave. Even if they didn't, the delay caused to them by having to climb over all those dead bodies would give any self respecting gun nut plenty of time to reload. Since I use a Glock 21, I can use that time to light a cigarette and scrath my nuts while I wait for the remaining 5 to climb over the hill of bodies in single file order.

9mm is for reloaders and college kids who can't afford the .45
Link Posted: 2/23/2002 9:57:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/23/2002 9:58:27 PM EDT by schapman43]

Originally Posted By Gunbert:
I dunno. I like the .40 as it's got more ass than a 9mm, but still allows me to carry 10 in a compact frame. It's a good trade off between the high capacity 9mm zip-guns and the makes-big-holes-but-I-gotta-reload-in-7 .45.

If I had to choose a second though, it'd be the .45.



My 1911 and HK USP both have no problem holding 10 in the mag and one down the pipe. That would make my guns make-bigger-holes-than-yours-and-holds-just-as-many-rounds 45's.
Link Posted: 2/23/2002 10:01:38 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Zoub:
Blackeye, assuming everyone here is a good shot, and ALL 12 guys are coming from the same direction:

Once you kill the first 7, you would have to assume the next 5 would decide to leave. Even if they didn't, the delay caused to them by having to climb over all those dead bodies would give any self respecting gun nut plenty of time to reload. Since I use a Glock 21, I can use that time to light a cigarette and scrath my nuts while I wait for the remaining 5 to climb over the hill of bodies in single file order.

9mm is for reloaders and college kids who can't afford the .45



I take offense to that! I am a college student, and recently bought a Hipower variant in 9mm for plinking. It is a great gun and cheap to shoot, but when I get my CCW my 1991A1 Commander is what will be on my hip.

Kyle
Link Posted: 2/23/2002 10:37:25 PM EDT

9mm is for reloaders and college kids who can't afford the .45


Uh oh, You must have your flame retardent Scooby Doo's on, Mr Z. The only thing I reload is my magazines and my wifes purse with money. 9mm is way to cheap right now to reload (Walmart 10.99 for a 100) As far as the .45 I have a Springfield Mil-Spec that is VERY accurate and reliable. I bought it to fix up with goodies of my choice but after having it awhile I figured why mess with a good thing. Excellent pistol for the money. I would miss it though if I had to make a choice.

Glocks are for people who dont care what their pistol looks like and can't afford a Walther


Link Posted: 2/24/2002 2:30:27 AM EDT
I'll take the 10mm anyday.Of the choices listed above,the only thing in its league for knockdown is the 45.Because it's a hot round though,your accuracy is much better than a 45.If you look at your ballistic tables and factor in energy,velocity,cross sectional density blah blah blah then the 10mm is a excellant round.

You are limited in mag capacity though.On the other hand,like a 45,you only need to hit something once with a 10mm.A 9mm is not really considered a reliable manstopper.If you want a reliable manstopper go with the 45 or 10mm.

If you're going to be doing a lot of target shooting also, then the 45 or 40sw is probably your best choice.Ammo is much more plentiful/cheaper.

This is one of those questions that will be eternally debated.
Link Posted: 2/24/2002 7:25:43 AM EDT
The three most important things to consider in stopping power:

1. bullet placement
2. bullet placement
3. bullet placement

Any choice will do. I choose 9mm. Faster follow up shots, cheapest ammo.

Just my $0.00002. This is one of those endless debates.
Link Posted: 2/24/2002 9:22:06 AM EDT

Originally Posted By GreyGhost:
I'll take the 10mm anyday.Of the choices listed above,the only thing in its league for knockdown is the 45.Because it's a hot round though,your accuracy is much better than a 45.If you look at your ballistic tables and factor in energy,velocity,cross sectional density blah blah blah then the 10mm is a excellant round.

You are limited in mag capacity though.On the other hand,like a 45,you only need to hit something once with a 10mm.A 9mm is not really considered a reliable manstopper.If you want a reliable manstopper go with the 45 or 10mm.

If you're going to be doing a lot of target shooting also, then the 45 or 40sw is probably your best choice.Ammo is much more plentiful/cheaper.

This is one of those questions that will be eternally debated.




-------------------------------------------

The stopping power of the .45 is tried and true with its 375 ft lbs(+ or -) and the 600 ft lbs that the 10mm is going to connect with is obviously going to totally ruin someones day.
I've played around with all kinds of scenario’s as I'm sure most of us have and still favor the versitility of the 9mm. I can keep 15 rds with one in the chamber, and being a NATO rd means that if the s**t hit the fan, I will always have lots of ammo. I may not be able to find any 10mm or .40 ammo around. As for the 9mm not being a reliable man stopper, I have never heard that, I have heard of the .380 (9mm short) being the minimum anyone should consider for stopping a man and it only has around 200 ft lbs of energy (personally I like a little more than that). I keep my PT99 loaded with COR BON +P 115 gr JHP which spits out rounds at a blazing 1350 fps which gives them 465 ft lbs at the muzzle which is more than the .45ACP and with the soft lead used in COR BON, most if not all that energy will be absorbed in the target.
Link Posted: 2/24/2002 10:11:36 AM EDT
I've got a Beretta 92FS. Ammo is cheap, and readily available.

As for the differnt calibers... I don't know about you guys, but I wouldn't want to get shot by anything bigger than a paintball gun (and those sting!).

Av.
Link Posted: 2/24/2002 12:11:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By blackeye:

9mm is for reloaders and college kids who can't afford the .45


Uh oh, You must have your flame retardent Scooby Doo's on, Mr Z. The only thing I reload is my magazines and my wifes purse with money. 9mm is way to cheap right now to reload (Walmart 10.99 for a 100) As far as the .45 I have a Springfield Mil-Spec that is VERY accurate and reliable. I bought it to fix up with goodies of my choice but after having it awhile I figured why mess with a good thing. Excellent pistol for the money. I would miss it though if I had to make a choice.

Glocks are for people who dont care what their pistol looks like and can't afford a Walther





YEAH!!! - Suit up boys -

I shoot alot (800 rnds per month of pistol ammo), or what I think is alot, and it adds up financially. Add to that the money I spend on rifle ammo, and I find it most economical to stay with military calibers (9mm, .223, .308). The key to stopping power in ANY round fired from a handgun (and before you ask, I'm not talking about TC or Linbaughs{spelling?}), is bullet placement. I just gave up my SIG P226 for a Glock 34, and the speed and accuracy it is capable of is more than enough for any defensive situation I can think of finding myself involved in.
Link Posted: 2/24/2002 4:07:27 PM EDT
Blackeye, I line my underwear with the same stuff I use in my hat tinfoil! Great stuff. Anyone who owns an AR or at least one 1911 variant can can afford a Walther.

Wiggins, when I was in college all I could afford were 12 gauge (ammo free from 2 clubs I worked at), 22LR and 22-250 which I reloaded. And I had to walk to class & the liquor store barefoot, in the snow, uphill both ways.

Yesterday, while testing some new stuff for my 870's, www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?id=92415, I also helped a college kid with his 9mm that kept jamming. And he was a Liberal Arts Major (music). I have renwed faith in the future of this country when music majors are shooting guns. Cool thing is, it was at the same range I shot at when I was in college many years ago.

As for my Glock, sure they are BUTT UGLY, but the beauty is in their duarability. You have to have confidence in your equipment or it just won't work for you. Being able to shoot cheap reloads is WHY I bought a Glock. They will cycle any brass, you can reload any crap brass you pick up, mixed bag of brands and it will run it, no sweat!! 13 years later still shooting Glocks. Plus it was the first real hi cap 45.

As for why .45, I grew up in a soldiers home, I love .45 and .308 and I don't even know why. I also happen to be able to hit what I shoot at with it, otherwise I would not use it.

I also like the fact that if you happen to smash a BG's femur with a .45 there is a good chance he will bleed to death in 10 minutes even if the other shots didn't kill him. I personally like knowing that.

A side note, growing up as a shotgunner, the flat wide profile of the top of the Glock is a natural for me. I can shoot Glocks very effectively with no front site on it.

I love ar15.com!!
Link Posted: 2/24/2002 4:17:10 PM EDT
If god forbid I have to shoot someone, I really doubt they will care if I shoot 'em with my 9mm, .45, .357, .44mag, or .357 sig. It doesn't matter what I'm shooting, if they keep coming, I'll keep shooting at them. I don't believe in big bore fairies, errr I mean handgun stopping power, once I've reached the 9mm level.

If a 9mm in the cranium didn't slow em down, I doubt a .45 would.

BTW, .357sig rules!
Link Posted: 2/24/2002 7:22:02 PM EDT
Since my 1911 is my newest toy, it's my current favorite.
Link Posted: 2/24/2002 7:44:00 PM EDT
If you're in your house and shooting, most likely you're looking the BG in the eye and will hit the intended eye you are shooting at. I'll take the Glock 21 in 45 with the 13+1, which will splatter and shatter anything it hits. I won't be firing that fast though, because you never know if your kid is behind one of them or some other scenario. When was the last time we heard about a robber meeting a gun owner anyway? (Not the 10 year old kid story, although it was a 45 he used!)

Last point...if you need 17 rounds, you best get your ass back to the range and learn yourself hows to shoot.
Link Posted: 2/24/2002 7:53:21 PM EDT
two rounds to the chest and one to the head. The BG isn't going to know the difference between a 9mm, .40 or 50BMG. He's going to be bleeding and dying on the floor, where he took the last round.
Link Posted: 2/24/2002 8:14:23 PM EDT

Minman72
If you're in your house and shooting, most likely you're looking the BG in the eye and will hit the intended eye you are shooting at. I'll take the Glock 21 in 45 with the 13+1, which will splatter and shatter anything it hits. I won't be firing that fast though, because you never know if your kid is behind one of them or some other scenario. When was the last time we heard about a robber meeting a gun owner anyway? (Not the 10 year old kid story, although it was a 45 he used!)



If you have ever read a magazine called American Rifleman put out by the NRA. You would be treated to a recurring page called Armed Citizen. It usually averages around 6 or so true stories of people put to the ultimate test of defending themselves, their family or their property. Luckily, in each case they were smart enough to purchase and learn how to use the firearm of their choice. Very eye-opening and intense in some cases. It is a must read!


Last point...if you need 17 rounds, you best get your ass back to the range and learn yourself hows to shoot.


My ass stays at the range anyway. My ass don't need 17 rounds but my ass is happy it's got 17 rounds




Link Posted: 2/24/2002 10:06:38 PM EDT
If you do not kill with the .45 or 10mm the person on the receiving end will still definately know they've been hit and probably will no longer be able to fight.
Link Posted: 2/24/2002 10:16:22 PM EDT
40- why: 'cuse it's in my carry gun

next choice: 45- WWI, WWII, Nam...... it works.

Link Posted: 2/25/2002 2:46:43 PM EDT
I'll take the 10mm. 45ACP next.
I like the manly recoil of the 10mm. :)
Link Posted: 2/25/2002 9:10:38 PM EDT
Rewind 10-12 years ago and authorities no less than the FBI and Mr. 45-Col. Jeff Cooper, were telling us that the 10mm was the end all of cartridge design. Somehow the FBI went from 200grs at 1200 fps to 180grs at 1000 fps. Thus was born born 40 S&W and duplicated the 38-40 of the 1870's. I shoot a S&W 1006 because I can shoot IPDA, IPSC, carry and hunt deer with one pistol. It's a great cartridge to handload for as I can go from 40 S&W levels to 200grs at 1250 fps without changing springs. The case capacity is perfect without too much capacity for light loads (45 acp, 45 lc) and enough capacity for higher levels without high pressure (38 super, 9x23, 40SW). The 357 sig looks promising for those who don't reload but lubing pistol cases is tedious.
Link Posted: 2/25/2002 9:50:34 PM EDT

Originally Posted By blackeye:

My ass stays at the range anyway. My ass don't need 17 rounds but my ass is happy it's got 17 rounds




I use .357 or .45ACP simply because thats all I have, but I couldn't agree with what you said more. This is why I have many hi-caps for the AR's and no 10 rounders. Infact, now that I think of it, I've never even used my Colt factory 9 rounders.
Link Posted: 2/25/2002 10:16:48 PM EDT
10mm all the way!Greyghost summed it up well.The .45 is my second choice.
Link Posted: 2/26/2002 12:24:44 AM EDT
5.56mm - WHY dick around with a pistol?
Link Posted: 2/26/2002 1:49:42 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Boland:
5.56mm - WHY dick around with a pistol?



I'd like to see you try and conceal an AR for CCW.

That's why.
Link Posted: 2/26/2002 1:58:14 AM EDT
I carry a 45 Caspian with 185 +p (compact frame, commander slide), but sometimes find myself with a 40 using Cor-bon 135 +p. I like them both, but if I get serious I always go back to the 357 with Federal 125 grain. Nothing like an old friend!
Link Posted: 2/26/2002 2:35:01 AM EDT
May as well put my .02 in. Start my defense caliber with a .4. Look for more cartridge capacity, it's a .40. I too can shoot, so 40 or 45 no big deal to me. I do love the accuracy of my 1911, but the Glock 22, high cap is what I'd go to the door with.
Link Posted: 2/26/2002 6:35:35 AM EDT
I guess it really doesn't matter, provided you choose the right load. After years of badmouthing the 9mm, I'm currently carrying a SIG 228 stoked with 14 124gr +P+ HydraShoks. I've been a .45 nut forever, and in a SHTF scenario I'd be packing my USP .45 Tactical to back up my long gun...but being that I cut my handgunning teeth on a .45 I can shoot this 228 so fast and accurately it sorta scares me.

I think a 9 is fine as long as you carefully select your carry ammo. A .45 is much more forgiving of poor choices in ammo. Plus, as I recently discovered, when I can shoot 1000 rounds for 120 bucks, the amount of practice I get is going to make up the difference anyway!

QS
Link Posted: 2/26/2002 7:00:28 AM EDT
If concealed carry is part of the equation, and I get only one gun, I'll take the 9mm, thanks for asking.

I spend most of the year dressed in shorts and T-shirt, so a gun that can't be well concealed in such clothing is not usable 6 months or more out of the year.

The 9mm is sufficiently powerful when loaded with the proper ammo, can be fired cheaply even if you don't reload, and gets more shots in a smaller gun. Its modest recoil makes followup shots easy, and almost anyone can shoot it well with little training.

And yes, at home, I prefer the AR15 and a 30 round mag with quality .223 ammo using a 40 grain bullet.
Link Posted: 2/26/2002 7:30:15 AM EDT
A pistol...ANY pistol...is a pissant gun. The only reason to carry one is for when you can't get to a REAL gun. (Rifle or 12ga.)

The best pistol is the one you have with you when you need it, that is reliable and that you can use well under stress. My preference is for the bigger bullet of the .45, but I hardly feel unprotected with 9mm, .40, or 10mm.

Get a good gun, load it with good ammo, make sure it is reliable, keep it clean and in good working order, then turn your attention to those things that matter the most...situational awareness, tactics and good judgement. It won't matter what caliber you carry if you never see the threat coming or do the wrong thing at the wrong time.
Link Posted: 2/26/2002 12:28:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/26/2002 12:31:54 PM EDT by AK_Boy]
45
Link Posted: 2/26/2002 1:04:13 PM EDT
there's a reason john browning and colt went to the 45acp. 9mm and .38 did not stop drugged-up fanatical moros in the phillipines.

if i found myself in the phillipines i'd try to benefit from others' previous experience, rather than re-learn the hard way.
Link Posted: 2/26/2002 1:07:37 PM EDT
On second thought, all of the above is great if you can't level a carbine. Otherwise carry a shotgun (pump) under 25 yards and a carbine out to 100 after that a working gun is necessary, maybe a McMillian turned bolt in 308 (take down of course).
Link Posted: 2/26/2002 1:59:06 PM EDT
I've been a fan of the .45 for years but recently got turned on to the 9mm when I bought a G19 for the wife. I reload .45 and it's easy to get a good accurate handload. Also, the cases aren't so small that you can't handle them while reloading. You also have a wide variety of choices in loads that seem to work well in .45...so it's my traditional favorite. But, 9mm is cheap (factory loads--I don't reload it yet), recoils less, allows for higher capacity in a smaller frame, and still has knockdown power cosidering the right load. I'm using Federal's 135gr. PDP ammo for personal defense and that seems to be good stuff. I don't think either is a bad choice for stopping power. Just different variables in general.
Link Posted: 2/27/2002 3:32:11 AM EDT
9mm will do the job for me....And if the first round didn't stop the bad guy, I got 15 more to go.
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