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Posted: 12/17/2002 3:47:23 AM EST
Having kicked around the .308 vs 300 mag accuracy issue; what about 7mm Rem Mag. While there's a smaller choice in bullet selection, I understand a few "sniper rifles" are chambered in this caliber. Still talking 1k distance. I,m sold on the 300, so this is just a FMI question. For clarification, target grade vs hunting grade accuracy is the issue here. My Sako 25-05 will shoot sub moa, but it hasn't given me clover leaf groups so far.
Link Posted: 12/17/2002 3:56:27 AM EST
If 1000 yard groups are what your lookin for, my suggestion is ya take a hard look at the "6.5mm-06". This caliber has bullets with some of the highest BC out there and is capable of sub 0.5 MOA groups at that range, in the right hands and rifle.

Mike
Link Posted: 12/17/2002 3:56:52 AM EST
if you like the 300WM why look at anything less?
i know you are playing the numbers game in your head. dia vs weight vs speed. just get the 300WM. you won't look back and wonder why you got a lesser gun.

you didn't say what you wanted to do with it (target or hunting). not that it matters a 7mag and a 300mag are supersonic at 1000 yds but i would not want to hunt with either of them at that distance.

if you want to go bigger the 338-378 Weatherby is nice! it will reliably take game at 1000 yds and it's a 1500 yd target gun.
Link Posted: 12/17/2002 4:31:32 AM EST
[Last Edit: 12/17/2002 4:38:41 AM EST by gnfiter2]
308wood
This web is like a library for gun-nuts. The ? was for info and opinion. I'm primarily a paper puncher, gong ringer. I hunt for the company of the other gun-nuts I know. I drive 2 hrs to shoot at a 200 yrd range and when the 300 project is finished, 4 hr to shoot 1K. I like little holes at long ranges. To quote another shooter on this web, "Only accurate guns are interesting."
Link Posted: 12/17/2002 4:37:49 AM EST
Hey Mr-Wilson
Thanks for the suggestion. You may have opened the door for another project. Going for the 300 for now. Just saw some inputs about a Rem 700 PSS. A custom shop rifle. Chances are, I could build what I want, 700 action, Hart or Schellin Barrel, McMillan Stock for less than Rem. If not, I pray it shoots better.
Link Posted: 12/17/2002 5:06:39 AM EST
have you looked at the Thompson Center Encore?
it's a great single shot rifle. barrels are about 250- for factory up to 1000 for custom target barrels.
Link Posted: 12/17/2002 7:38:00 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/17/2002 7:47:43 PM EST by hagar]
Most people do not realize how much superior the 7mm magnum is to the 300 Win Mag as a long range cartridge. Take for instance the 7mm 162 gr A-Max bullet. Start it at 3000 feet/sec, and at 1000 yards it will still do 1805 feet/sec with 1171 foot pounds of energy (80 degree day and 2000 feet elevation). It will drift 51 inches in a 90 degree 10 mile per hour wind, need 91 1/4 minute upclicks from a 200 yard zero and 20 sideclicks. Now take the 300 Win shooting a 175 grain Sierra at the same speed. At 1000, it is only going 1556 feet/sec with 941 foot pounds of energy. It will drift 70 inches in the same wind, need 104 upclicks and 28 sideclicks. Not even in the same league! I shot my 7mm Sendero last week on the 1000 yard range, shot a 97 (3 9's because of wind) and a 95/100 prone from a bipod, and I am pretty much a beginner long range shooter. My second series I had 2 8's at 12 o'clock, and I think it was because of putting too much pressure on the bipod. I almost totally disregarded the wind, while the 308 Palma shooters were constantly adjusting for windage, I did not put more than 1 or 2 1/4 minute clicks on for wind during the whole string. Interesting is that I needed about 2 minutes less elevation with the bipod than shooting with a sling, sure sign that the bipod does make a difference.
Link Posted: 12/18/2002 4:01:37 AM EST
Hagar
That's interesting info on the 7mm. Considering my local has a used one for, I believe, less than $600. Again, I have heard that Senderos are excellent rifles; the price on this one seemed reasonable. Also, considering I have history with this shop, two Armalites, a 10T and a 15NM, I could probably get a break on the asking price. I'll check some reference manuals on the 300 and 7 to do my own comparisons. A very minor consideration is sticking with 30 cal tips when I reload. I'm sure I'll get some more inputs on this issue soon. This is a slick web site, with a lot of experienced shooters passing on opinions and experiences. Thanks for your input.
Link Posted: 12/18/2002 6:15:36 AM EST
Link Posted: 12/18/2002 9:53:32 AM EST
I have not seen the accuracy yet in WSMs, not saying it isn't there, just saying I have not seen anything close to MOA (2-4 inch patterns at 100yds)from a WSM with factory loads. My 7mm Remington Mag, will shoot 1-2 MOA reliably off the bench with factory loads and MOA /sub MOA with hand loads. With that said, as far as reloading goes, the WSM was designed to be reloaded a minimum of 10+ times without worry of case failure. So I think the WSM will have quite a bit of potential in due time. It reminds me of some of the PPC target cartridges.
Link Posted: 12/18/2002 10:47:47 AM EST
[Last Edit: 12/18/2002 10:50:35 AM EST by imposter]
My 270 WSM factory rifle gets 1" 5 shot groups with factory 130 grain loads.

3275 fps

I dispute that the 7mm Mag is better than the 300 Mag for long distance shooting. You can pick and choose your bullets to show different results, but with the same brand of bullets the 300 Mag is slightly better as far as drift. Looks at the Federal ballistics chart.

Also, the 300 Mag can be loaded much hotter than factory loads - you can get up to 3160 fps with 180 grain and 24" barrel. The 300 Wby only does 3190 and the 300 RUM is only 3220.
Link Posted: 12/19/2002 4:33:14 AM EST
[Last Edit: 12/19/2002 4:38:32 AM EST by gnfiter2]
I knew there would be points and counter points on this issue. Does anyone think that the 300 is inherently more accurate than the 7mm? After all, it is a 30 cal and that has dominated long range shooting for years. Now there are "Mouse Guns" shooting 1k matches, and winning. The 6.5-06 mentioned earlier has gotten real good press of late.

Also, remember, my focus is to ring a plate or gong; punch the smallest group possible out to 1k yrds. No hunting, all I'm killing is time. I just want to be as accurate as I can afford to get.
Link Posted: 12/19/2002 4:59:49 AM EST
[Last Edit: 12/19/2002 5:00:37 AM EST by imposter]
I doubt the 300 Mag is any more accurate than the 7 Mag. For long range shooting, the principal advantage of the 300 is the ability to use very heavy bullets.
Link Posted: 12/19/2002 6:37:07 AM EST
How about the Remington SA-Ultra Mag?

Looks very promising.

Short Action case length, short fat case for better internal combustion, pretty much equals the 300 win externally.

Of course it is Remingtons answer to the WSM but the difference is you can get it in a REMINGTON 700 !! ( can you tell I don't like winchester bolt guns? ) ;)
Link Posted: 12/19/2002 6:44:23 AM EST

Originally Posted By hagar:
Most people do not realize how much superior the 7mm magnum is to the 300 Win Mag as a long range cartridge. Take for instance the 7mm 162 gr A-Max bullet. Start it at 3000 feet/sec, and at 1000 yards it will still do 1805 feet/sec with 1171 foot pounds of energy (80 degree day and 2000 feet elevation). It will drift 51 inches in a 90 degree 10 mile per hour wind, need 91 1/4 minute upclicks from a 200 yard zero and 20 sideclicks. Now take the 300 Win shooting a 175 grain Sierra at the same speed. At 1000, it is only going 1556 feet/sec with 941 foot pounds of energy. It will drift 70 inches in the same wind, need 104 upclicks and 28 sideclicks. Not even in the same league! I shot my 7mm Sendero last week on the 1000 yard range, shot a 97 (3 9's because of wind) and a 95/100 prone from a bipod, and I am pretty much a beginner long range shooter. My second series I had 2 8's at 12 o'clock, and I think it was because of putting too much pressure on the bipod. I almost totally disregarded the wind, while the 308 Palma shooters were constantly adjusting for windage, I did not put more than 1 or 2 1/4 minute clicks on for wind during the whole string. Interesting is that I needed about 2 minutes less elevation with the bipod than shooting with a sling, sure sign that the bipod does make a difference.




Ding, ding, ding. We have a winner. No more calls. Get the 7mm mag for what you want. I does it all with less. less powder. less lead. less recoil. More velocity. I saw the 6.5-06 mentioned. It's best feature is the fact you can use a standard bolt face to build on. The 6.5 x 284 is better, but brass is an issue.
Link Posted: 12/20/2002 3:32:28 AM EST
SS109

I own one Winchester Mod 70 in 243. Haven't shot it much, but it's extremely accurate. Got it with an old B&L scope. Windage and elevation are adjusted with the knobs on the scope base. It's a med-heavy barrel. Have Rem 700's in 22-250, and 40X. Thought of a Savage in 300 winmag, but decided I wanted one custom rifle built to my specs.
Link Posted: 12/20/2002 10:36:20 AM EST
[Last Edit: 12/20/2002 10:39:42 AM EST by shooterX308]
Look at the results of most 1000 yard competitions; you'll see that they are dominated by 300 Win Mags, Weatherbys, and variants. The 7 Mag is a good cartridge, but it won't put a 240 grain MatchKing downrange at 2800 fps at better than 1 moa out to 1600 yard with only 5 1/2" drift per mph full full value wind at 1000 yards. You will also find the 300 Win is easier on barrel steel as well; you can buy kickass ammo from Federal (190 Grain Match) for not much more than you can load it yourself, and there are dozens of bullets available for it as well as a plethora of good, cheap brass. Finally, the 300 Win Mag is a proven entity. Accept no substitutes.

I have a PSS currently; good rifle, just be careful to closely inspect the barrel; I have seen two Rem 700 based rifles with barrels so bent it was visible; one was a Sendero in 300 Ultra, and the other was the first PSS I had. This one shoots pretty good. Good Luck.
Link Posted: 12/20/2002 11:09:40 AM EST
I have a Remington PSS DM in 300 WM. It will shoot circles under any factory 7MM made. Best rifle out of the box available. Sure , you can shoot 175 gr bullets, but it really shines with 190 to 220 ge rounds at 1200 meters !!!.Hell, my 270 Winchester will ALMOST keep pace with a 7MM Rem. mag. What you AND I really want is a 6.5 /284 Winchester. Factory brass is available from Norma but alas, there are no factory rifles built in this caliber yet. Guess I'll have to get myself an old PSS & get it redone.
Oh yes, the internal ballistics of the 6.5/284 is almost identical to a 300 WM. The flight path of both rounds are nearly identical. All in a short action weapon with out all the magnum recoil, barrel wear etc !
Link Posted: 12/20/2002 6:33:27 PM EST
hagar
You are being very kind to the 7mm. I don't know why one would choose the light bullets in a precision rifle chambered in 300 Win Mag but if you must, compare the 162 Gr. A Max to the 168 SMK at 3200 fps, the 175 SMK at 3100 fps, the 180 SMK at 3100 fps, the 190 SMK at 3000 fps. The 7 mag is a very good cartridge but is by no means superior to the 300 Win Mag.
Have a nice evening, Rabon...
Link Posted: 12/20/2002 8:37:50 PM EST
OK, let's do. The 168 gr Sierra at 3200 feet/sec will do 1559 feet/sec at 1000 yards with 73 inches of wind drift. The 175 Sierra at 3100 will do 1622 with a 66 inch wind drift. The 180 Sierra will do almost the exact same numbers. None of them impress me so far. The 200 gr Sierra at 3000 will do 1700 feet/sec and drift 59 inches. Still no contest. The reason the 308 caliber is used so much, is because it is a military caliber with a huge supply chain, not because it is superior. The Secret Service can use whatever they feel is the best, and they use the 7mm Magnum. Actually my next long range cartridge might be a 7mm/08 with a 1 in 8 twist, the negative of all the magnums is that they burn barrels out pretty quick. A couple of 50 shot matches and it's time to rebarrel. The 308/6.5mm or 6.5/284 is also a good candidate, less recoil and will do things at 1000 that 300 Winchesters only dream about. I shoot with really good people, Camp Perry winners not wannabee snipers, and the 6.5 is what they shoot when they don't shoot a 308 Palma rifle.
Link Posted: 12/26/2002 12:45:30 PM EST

Originally Posted By hagar:
OK, let's do. The 168 gr Sierra at 3200 feet/sec will do 1559 feet/sec at 1000 yards with 73 inches of wind drift. The 175 Sierra at 3100 will do 1622 with a 66 inch wind drift. The 180 Sierra will do almost the exact same numbers. None of them impress me so far. The 200 gr Sierra at 3000 will do 1700 feet/sec and drift 59 inches. Still no contest. The reason the 308 caliber is used so much, is because it is a military caliber with a huge supply chain, not because it is superior. The Secret Service can use whatever they feel is the best, and they use the 7mm Magnum. Actually my next long range cartridge might be a 7mm/08 with a 1 in 8 twist, the negative of all the magnums is that they burn barrels out pretty quick. A couple of 50 shot matches and it's time to rebarrel. The 308/6.5mm or 6.5/284 is also a good candidate, less recoil and will do things at 1000 that 300 Winchesters only dream about. I shoot with really good people, Camp Perry winners not wannabee snipers, and the 6.5 is what they shoot when they don't shoot a 308 Palma rifle.



A couple of points I'll take you to task on here. We'll start with rebarrelling: I can tell you from experience most 30 cal mags can go in excess of 1500 rounds on average before they need rebarrelled; not after every couple of 50 shot matches. Next, let me steer you back around to the fact that there is a much greater supply of brass, bullets, and loading options for the Win Mag, not to mention the fact that you can buy great Federal Match ammo for it off the shelf. Not so for the 7mm mag. Next, the Win Mag will be easier on barrel steel than the 7mm owing to its larger bore; funny things happen when you start necking belted mag cases down. Last, and let me re-emphasize this: The Win Mag is grossly underestimated as a long distance cartridge. While you are running your ballistics tables, check out the numbers for a 240 Sierra (BC .711) @ 2800 fps -easily achieved out of a standard chamber. This begins to approach 338 Lapua ballistics and easily reaches the far side of 1500 yards supersonically - as me how I know. Last, are you serious about the 7mm/08?

There are no new magic cartridges out there; well, except for the 408 Cheyenne Tactical, but that's another story. Mostly we just switch cases and calibers, neck up or neck down, and like Baskin-Robbins, we have the Flavor of the Month. However, plain vanilla lives on for a reason, and so does the 300 Win Mag.
Link Posted: 12/27/2002 8:24:10 AM EST
I would agree that the 300 Winchester Mag is a better 1000yd cartridge than a 7mm Remington Mag in regards to being able to shoot heavier bullets at decent velocities.

However world records at 1000yds have been set using 7mm Remington Magnums, I know of one record that held for a few years in the 70s.

I would disagree on the availability of supplies and barrel longevity. I have put close to 1000 bullets down my 7mm Remington Mags Barrel with hand loads and still have MOA capability, have not seen any decrease in accuracy yet, mine never has reliably shot .5 MOA patterns and it probably never will. I picked up 250 cases for $25.00 once fired brass a little over a month ago off of E-Bay so there are affordable deals to be had. While there may not be a "off the shelf" "match accurate" bullets, Hornady does make some very accurate MOA 7mm Ammo. And if your still not satisfied with accuracy one can load their own which provides the utmost accuracy for any rifle.

There is no such thing as a free lunch, give here and take there, the hardest part is figuring out the comprimise in the features with price, and performance level desired. The firearm and optics are more important than the selection between 7mm and 300 Winchester in my oppinion.
Link Posted: 12/30/2002 6:55:45 AM EST

Originally Posted By P226:
I would agree that the 300 Winchester Mag is a better 1000yd cartridge than a 7mm Remington Mag in regards to being able to shoot heavier bullets at decent velocities.

However world records at 1000yds have been set using 7mm Remington Magnums, I know of one record that held for a few years in the 70s.

I would disagree on the availability of supplies and barrel longevity. I have put close to 1000 bullets down my 7mm Remington Mags Barrel with hand loads and still have MOA capability, have not seen any decrease in accuracy yet, mine never has reliably shot .5 MOA patterns and it probably never will. I picked up 250 cases for $25.00 once fired brass a little over a month ago off of E-Bay so there are affordable deals to be had. While there may not be a "off the shelf" "match accurate" bullets, Hornady does make some very accurate MOA 7mm Ammo. And if your still not satisfied with accuracy one can load their own which provides the utmost accuracy for any rifle.

There is no such thing as a free lunch, give here and take there, the hardest part is figuring out the comprimise in the features with price, and performance level desired. The firearm and optics are more important than the selection between 7mm and 300 Winchester in my oppinion.



I'll go along with everything here, and I think I've beat this dog for fun more than enough. Fact of the matter: you really can't go wrong with either one; we all have our preferences which are more often rooted in personal dogma than actual fact. Pick a cartridge and shoot the hell out of it until you know it upside down and backwards, and don't look back. Good Luck!!
Link Posted: 12/30/2002 7:03:59 AM EST
P226
Are you actually handloading a 7mm and not able to get consistent .5 moa? That seems odd to me?
Link Posted: 12/30/2002 4:39:37 PM EST
If you want to see what people are shooting at 1000 yards for really good groups, go check out this link www.sacvalley.org/Rifle/1-NBRSA%20EQUIPMENT%20LIST2002.htm

It is a list of competitiors and their equipment as used in the NBRSA 1000 yard Championships held out here at the Sac Valley range.

A lot of these guys also shoot High Power and Military Rifle silhouette matches so they are not just a bunch lf elitist bench rest snobs.
Link Posted: 12/31/2002 5:05:51 AM EST
I am not saying I have not shot several .3-.5 inch patterns at 100yds, I have several times, but not consistently. I consistently shoot around 1-2 MOA off sand bags. I have a Savage 110 7mm, and the stock is plastic/ tupperwear. I believe that the stock is my limiting factor because my hand loads are all weighed and measured to be exact, I weigh and measure the bullets and separate them into similar lots. I carefully carved a stock out of a walnut blank, shot it at 50yds and shot a ragged hole, when I moved to 100yds my pattern started walking, and noted a crack in the material holding the rear piller in place( I didn't do a good job in glueing in the piller). So hopefully by this next weekend, the JB and fiberglassed reinforced rear piller will be set for shooting. I free floated the forearm .015 inch and bedded the action with steel posts and brass inserts. My father made a device that will allow me to experiment between free floating and incrementally adding pressure to the barrel at the tip of the forearm. Will see how it all works out in the end.

I can say this about the stock I carved, its straight, fits me perfect, and with a Pachmyer decelerator pad, it feels like I am shooting a .243 or something along that line. 100 rounds through this 7mm at a sitting would be a piece of cake! However it has taken me 6 months of sanding, dremeling, carving, not sure I will tackle this kind of project again.

I do believe the stock is part of the equation in achieving accuracy. The whole package counts. Which is why many people who buy magnum guns go for the Remingtons, Winchesters, Weatherby's, they usually have a nice stock to begin. With that said, 1 MOA is good enough for deer hunting. Might not be happy with it, if the purpose was for winning at 1000yd precision competition.
Link Posted: 12/31/2002 9:02:13 AM EST
Pathfinder
I checked that re: Thanks. As someone said earlier 6.5/284 is a good round. Spot # 19 sounds like the gun I had in mind. Not being a supershooter, it will no doubt do.

226 I get the point. A couple of guys who have Savages in 300 claim consistent sub moa, then no evryone measures the same. In any case I've got time to work on my project.

Thanks to all for the input.
Link Posted: 12/31/2002 1:28:38 PM EST
Heck, the 7mm Mag and the .300 Winmag must be excellent choices.

Around here, every good ol' boy worth his salt regularly takes 90 lb whitetails at 50 yards with these two fine calibers.

Suggest a smaller cartridge and you are looked at like you have just grown a second head.
Link Posted: 12/31/2002 7:04:47 PM EST
The 7mm Rem.Mag. is one of my favorite cartridges/calibers. I've got two; a 1989 Remington 700 BDL-"AS" & a 1995 Browning BAR Safari MKII BOSS-CR.

If you're looking into a heavy, long range shooter, the Remington 700 Police in 7mm Rem.Mag. would be a very cool choice.
The extra weight and the stock would be perfect.
The caliber in that format would also make it kinda rare, if you ever sold it...you wouldn't, though!

That's what I'd pick.
Link Posted: 12/31/2002 7:24:10 PM EST
I like both the 7mm and 300, however the reason many of the 1000 yard shooters use .30 is the bullet selection and quality is much better. I use a high end scale way too much, but what I have found is that the heavy .30 bullets vs. the heavy 7mm bullets have less wieght variation, not much, but better. This might not matter much at 100 yards, but at 1000 it does matter. I have seen much more vertical stringing with those non-consistant bullets. Also, the heavier bullets do a little better when the wind kicks up.
You might want to check out the non-belted mags such as the 300 Ultra, brass is much easier to work without the belt. A lot of long range friends are going to the non-belted route. I shot a 30/404 35 degree for years and loved it, the only problem was that 100g of H1000 eats up a barrel in less than 2000 rounds.
Link Posted: 1/1/2003 10:53:19 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/3/2003 12:45:13 AM EST by gnfiter2]
Ken
If this were about hunting, rage or accuracy; there'd be little discussion. I've never hunted out west where a shot could routinely be taken at 500yrds or more. Unless I'm shooting a telephone line or fire break,500 yrd shots are rare where I have been lucky to hunt. Again, this is about a precision rifle, with and emphasis on 1K accuracy. What it will kill at that range is of no importance. I would not engage a game animal at that range.

Hell Bud, 50 yrd shots is a 30/30 lever gun range. Still, there a lot to be said for bang for the buck, as long as the "buck" is a big one.
Link Posted: 1/1/2003 10:59:20 PM EST
usma89

You may have a point. They are fairly new, and seem not to have developed a record. Fortunately, when my LRPR is finally a reality, as in, "Honey, I've had this gun a long time"; Something new will come up and I can start again.
Link Posted: 1/1/2003 11:08:32 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/3/2003 12:47:27 AM EST by gnfiter2]
Ken

Just as a point on long range hunting. I haven't had to take a 500 yrd shot in a number of years, so descretion is the better part here. On white-tail, my Sako, 25-06, 120gr would be my field gun for sure.
Link Posted: 1/1/2003 11:26:12 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/1/2003 11:37:06 PM EST by cnatra]

Originally Posted By gnfiter2:
Pathfinder
I checked that re: Thanks. As someone said earlier 6.5/284 is a good round.
Thanks to all for the input.



Any thoughts how the .264 WinMag compares to this cartridge??
I've been looking real seriously at all the 6.5mm/.264cal cartridges out there trying to decide on one.
I've been waffling mostly between the 260Rem(6.5-08) & the .264WinMag. The 6.5/284 intrigues me but I haven't found much info. on it so far.


gnfiter2,
get a .30cal magnum of any kind over the 7mm RemMag
Link Posted: 1/2/2003 9:18:26 AM EST

Originally Posted By gnfiter2:
Ken
If this were about hunting, rage or accuracy; there'd be little discussion. I've never hunted out west where a shot could routinely be taken at 500yrds or more. I would not engage a game animal at that range.



Yeah, I know. I was just feeling sarcastic towards these local yokels who hunt with a high-powered long distance round in thick woods.


Hell Bud, 50 yrd shots is a 30/30 lever gun range.


My point exactly.
Link Posted: 1/2/2003 9:49:38 AM EST
The 6.5/284 intrigues me but I haven't found much info. on it so far.


{/quote]

The 6.5/284 intrigues me also. I order a lot of stuff from Sinclair's and have talked to them about his round. Their feedback from the field is that long range shooters love it. If I did not have 3 other projects going, I might just try it.

Link Posted: 1/3/2003 12:41:45 AM EST
USMA89

The decision is made, and USMA89 called the shot. Spoke to a young Jarhead, school trained sniper; yes, he passed the course. He suggested I try a 300 Ultra. So I walked into my favorite local and put a 300 Ultra on lay-a-way. A used, mint condition, 700 BDL with scope; $500. Darn glad I reload, $40 a box for 200 gr Rem. ammo. A big shell case, at least to me. It's such a beautiful gun, I hate to think of throwing the stock and barrel away. I find the engraved action disrtacting for what the gun will eventually become. Still, it's all the 30 cal I want to lay behind. This is my last long gun (he-he-he) Took a quick look for load data; none listed. So someone please give me a link. Fortunately, a new 1k range is under construction a couple of hrs away. I want it ready to go when the range is completed
Link Posted: 1/3/2003 12:49:52 AM EST
cnatra

What do you think of my choice..300 Ultra? A done deal!
Link Posted: 1/3/2003 2:49:00 AM EST
Get a scope with plenty of eye relief.
I think your choice is OK.
If you're going to rebuild the gun anyway, have the 'embellishments' inlaid with gold and give the rifle a trampy girls name...!
Then, when you lay down with her, you'll have that 'intimate' feeling~~~!
You've got a cartridge with the reputation for having an 'abrupt' recoil impulse.
I fired one once, and the description is apt.
Not bad, though.
Have fun building your firearm.
Link Posted: 1/3/2003 7:13:42 AM EST
300 Ultra? Hate to pee-pee on your parade formation, but IMHO, you just snatched defeat from the jaws of victory. Ditto the long eye relief scope, and a muzzle break is definitely in your future. I hope you're a big boy. Both you and the jarhead, sniper or no, are victims of marketing. Good luck, you'll need it.
Link Posted: 1/3/2003 7:37:08 AM EST
[Last Edit: 1/3/2003 7:55:20 AM EST by cnatra]

Originally Posted By gnfiter2:
cnatra
What do you think of my choice..300 Ultra? A done deal!



Well I think the RemUltra's are great cartridges but I'm no expert(yet!).
It should be an accurate flat shooting cartridge but the recoil will be stiff unless the rifle is nice & heavy & maybe a muzzle break.
The other potential concern would be barrel life. I think throat erosion might be a problem. Depends on how much you plan on shooting. I would think for a hunting rifle or "tactical" rilfe it wouldn't be as much of a problem becuase you wouldn't necessarily have a lot of sustained fire but for competitive shooting where your putting a lot of lead down range on a given day it might get tiring.
I know there is a group here in the Houston are that has 1000yrd matches regularly over in Beaumont & a Rem700P in .300WinMag or .300Ultra is popular but they almost all have big'ol muzzle-brakes on them. I think the new .300WSM might be a good compromise but you may be limited on bullets above 180gr.

I've tinkered with .308's & .300mags out to 400yrds but I'm by no means a competitive shooter. You might want to inquire more from some people that do that kind of shooting(1000yrd) on a regular basis. My Winchester Laredo in .300WinMag is softer shooting than my 20" .308 Savage 10FP but the Laredo has a muzzle break & weighs more. I don't mind shooting the Laredo at all. The .300Ultra will have more recoil though.

You have great bullet selection in .30cal
www.sierrabullets.com

It seems like some members here have posted before about web sites dedicated to competitive rifle shooting. I'll see if I can find some.
Here's the "sniper" sites
www.snipercountry.com
www.snipershide.com

So your going to have someone "build up" this rifle for you?
a Remington PSS or Sendero might be something to consider for an out of the box gun.
I think you could get either one of those for $700-800 new.
www.remingtonle.com/rifle/700p.htm
www.remington.com/firearms/centerfire/700sendsf.htm
Link Posted: 1/3/2003 7:51:26 AM EST
Recoil is a relative thing, get the stock to fit you well, put a nice recoil pad on it and the gun will be very tolerable. Don't discount a good fitting gun, a bad fitting gun beats the heck out of your shoulder and face, a good fitting gun even in ultra magnum classed double guns is very tolerable for the average person if it fits well! A gun that fits is one that is enjoyable to shoot.

Another suggestion is to build up to the amount of shooting one desires. Shoot till it hurts, give a few day or even till the next weekend and then shoot again. After a month or so, 100+ rounds down the tube will be a piece of cake.

Link Posted: 1/3/2003 8:17:07 AM EST

Originally Posted By gnfiter2:
USMA89

He suggested I try a 300 Ultra. So I walked into my favorite local and put a 300 Ultra on lay-a-way. A used, mint condition, 700 BDL with scope; $500. Darn glad I reload, $40 a box for 200 gr Rem. ammo.



gnfiter2
I think I can help you out. I have at least 100 cases(maybe 200) of 404 brass, some of it unformed. The 300 Ultra uses a 404 case and it is darn expensive. I have some Bell, Norma, RCS, and others. If you pay for shipping, I will give it all to you for....free.
Working without the belt will give your cases a longer life and I think you will love it. Try the H1000 powder.
As the others have said a muzzle break is in your future. Get a shooters shoulder pad, it will help.
Just e-mail me and we can get the details worked out on the brass if you want it.
Link Posted: 1/4/2003 11:40:40 AM EST
OK guys. First came the artist, then the critic. I didn't expect everyone to think my choice was the ultimate. If there were only one great choice for a gun, there would only be one and everybody would have the same one. Still, I appreciate the comments and welcome more, pro or con. I've already benefited from the recommedation on the brake. May not have thought of it. As the Ultra is currently a complete system, I'll shoot it and see what it feels like. Remember, it will have a McMillan or other custom stock, adjustable length of pull & cheek. You can bet you last can of powder; when I finish, I'll be able to lay behind it for as long as I want.

Think I'll call it Krissy. My ultimate gun named for my "Ultimate Woman." I'll build a class "A" gun and name it after a Class "A" Woman. When I lay down with her, "Double Bang!!!!! Or at least one big bang at a time.

Keep the advice coming, again, pro or con. Thanks for any and all input.
Link Posted: 1/4/2003 12:00:45 PM EST
x308
If you have some useful info, let's hear it. I can see, or may see, after a few rounds; the need for a brake. Bullet selection is tops with 30 cal; so what's with your comment? The more I hear, the more I'll know. I do have a calibrated "Bullshit Meter" so send it on and let me decide. IMHO, your HO is as good as anyones.

This goes for all of the shooters here. Share your opinions, fact or hearsay. I asked for opinions and I'm listening.
Link Posted: 1/4/2003 12:11:02 PM EST
usma89

Sounds good.

contact me @ gnfiter2@bellsouth.net
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