1/4 of my cases won't size

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - 1/4 of my cases won't size

Posted: 6/2/2010 9:52:48 AM EDT

I'm going through my spent 223 brass that is a mixture of range pickup and known once fired by me. Of this I started with a batch of 100...

Some of the cases that won't resize feel like the depriming rod is hitting the case itself. Just a solid stop. This is happening only with remington cases with red paste on primer pocket.

Others that won't resize start out good but then it gets to hard to push. The die leaves a nice line around the case about 3/16 from the case head. This is happening on PMC and Hornady cases.

I'm lubing the crap out of the cases inside and out so I know it's not a lube issue. At first I thought it was so I literally dipped the case into the dillon case lube to only get identical results. The good news is that the cases that resize fine go smooth as silk and will chamber smooth as silk. I just want more cases to not be scrapped.

Doubt it matters but I'm sizing on a dillon 550

Posted: 6/2/2010 10:02:02 AM EDT

[#1]

That's it! It's the Dillon!

Kidding.

The ones that stop cold, might be berdan-primed.

The other problem ones might have been fired in an automatic weapon with really generous chamber. If that's the case, your die has a hard time handling that. The line is probably where the case is blown out and where sizing ended.

Posted: 6/2/2010 10:04:24 AM EDT

[#2]

Is your depriming rod lowered too much so the expander ball is impacting the inside of the cases on some brass?

There shouldn't be a hard stop unless you have berdan primed brass like explained but you would have bent your decapping pin or rod if that was the case.

The resizing ring on the brass is normal and will vary depending on the brass type and what chamber it was originally fired in.

Posted: 6/2/2010 10:15:20 AM EDT

[#3]

Quoted:
Is your depriming rod lowered too much so the expander ball is impacting the inside of the cases on some brass?

There shouldn't be a hard stop unless you have berdan primed brass like explained but you would have bent your decapping pin or rod if that was the case.

I got it to where at full extension it just lacks touching the shellplate. It doesn't look to be bent or broken as it resized many cases after having issues and on some I could feel it really pull through the neck.

Posted: 6/2/2010 10:30:07 AM EDT

[#4]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Is your depriming rod lowered too much so the expander ball is impacting the inside of the cases on some brass?

There shouldn't be a hard stop unless you have berdan primed brass like explained but you would have bent your decapping pin or rod if that was the case.

I got it to where at full extension it just lacks touching the shellplate. It doesn't look to be bent or broken as it resized many cases after having issues and on some I could feel it really pull through the neck.

You talking about the die, the decapping pin, or the expander head?

Posted: 6/2/2010 10:35:52 AM EDT

[#5]

Your resizing die should look something like this.

The decapping pin itself should be protruding from the bottom of the die but the neck expander should not be.

The whole decapping rod can be lowered or raised independantly of the die itself.

Posted: 6/2/2010 10:43:10 AM EDT

[#6]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Is your depriming rod lowered too much so the expander ball is impacting the inside of the cases on some brass?

There shouldn't be a hard stop unless you have berdan primed brass like explained but you would have bent your decapping pin or rod if that was the case.

I got it to where at full extension it just lacks touching the shellplate. It doesn't look to be bent or broken as it resized many cases after having issues and on some I could feel it really pull through the neck.

You talking about the die, the decapping pin, or the expander head?

Yeah, when you say full extension, is your press stroke finished, or stopped short of finish...in other words, your die is screwed down enough (correctly), right?
Are you using Lee dies?

Posted: 6/2/2010 10:47:21 AM EDT

[#7]

The decap pin.

It looks like the pic just posted

Posted: 6/2/2010 10:47:44 AM EDT

[#8]

If cases were fired from AK-102 you'll need Imperial Wax to size. You said cases were Remington ? That's cheap brass. Cheap enough to run through an AK.

Been there and done that. Spray lube just isn't enough.

Posted: 6/2/2010 10:53:48 AM EDT

[#9]

Quoted:
Your resizing die should look something like this.

The decapping pin itself should be protruding from the bottom of the die but the neck expander should not be.

The whole decapping rod can be lowered or raised independantly of the die itself.

All true and the reason I asked about Lee dies:

If it's a Lee die, the rod will push up rather than break when pushed into a berdan primed case, changing adjustment.
If it's a Lee die, the lack of a set screw in the die nut means that if you screw or unscrew the die using the die body rather than only the nut, the adjustment will change and cause problems.

Posted: 6/2/2010 11:01:23 AM EDT

[#10]

Dillon spray lube is pretty good and you should not be coming to a hard stop even if the case was fired in an oversized chamber.

You would be hearing creaking and other funky sounds if that was the case and you would need to forcefully push or bang the press handle to get the case loose and lower the ram again which you did not mention.

We need some pics because something is not right somewhere.

Posted: 6/2/2010 11:04:54 AM EDT

[#11]

Quoted:
If cases were fired from AK-102 you'll need Imperial Wax to size. You said cases were Remington ? That's cheap brass. Cheap enough to run through an AK.

Been there and done that. Spray lube just isn't enough.

That would certainly account for the hard to crank brass all right. The other problem has to be berden-primered-brass or a bent depriming pin.

Posted: 6/2/2010 11:14:10 AM EDT

[#12]

A hard stop indicates the expander ball that grips the decapping pin is extended down too far. The reason it doesn't occur on all cases is because the cases have different web thicknesses in the head. You're probably real close to clearing.

Try this: remove the decapping pin altoghether, then size one of the "hard" cases. Then you'll know if it's the exander hitting or a deformed case being particularly obnoxious.

Posted: 6/2/2010 11:38:44 AM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:
A hard stop indicates the expander ball that grips the decapping pin is extended down too far. The reason it doesn't occur on all cases is because the cases have different web thicknesses in the head. You're probably real close to clearing.

Try this: remove the decapping pin altoghether, then size one of the "hard" cases. Then you'll know if it's the exander hitting or a deformed case being particularly obnoxious.

Hey stop stealing all my glory.

Posted: 6/2/2010 11:52:42 AM EDT

[#14]

Here are pics. I will go try a hard case without the decap pin.

Posted: 6/2/2010 12:06:49 PM EDT

[#15]

Yep, that's brass fired from an AK-102. That's what mine looked like too. Spray lube isn't going to re-size those. Imperial Wax or assembly (white lithium) grease.

Posted: 6/2/2010 12:13:32 PM EDT

[#16]

Quoted:
Yep, that's brass fired from an AK-102. That's what mine looked like too. Spray lube isn't going to re-size those. Imperial Wax or assembly (white lithium) grease.

Wow that's crazy.

I am not sure I would even use that brass.

Have you noticed any overworking of the head or early signs of incipient case head separation?

I love Imperial sizing wax for my 300 Whisper and 308 cases that I run on a single stage but I still like Dillon spray lube for massive batches of 223 brass.

I guess you're right that that brass needs it though.

Not worth it for range pickups if you ask me.

Posted: 6/2/2010 12:17:21 PM EDT

[#17]

Quoted:
Here are pics. I will go try a hard case without the decap pin.

http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/8343/1007059.jpg

No need as 1911smith nailed it with the overworked brass.

Unless you are hurting for brass I would scrap it.

Also, I hope it's just distorted because of your camera but the decapping rod looks slightly bent in your picture.

Posted: 6/2/2010 12:28:51 PM EDT

[#18]

Ooohhhhh.... I think I'd scrap that brass.

- AG

Posted: 6/2/2010 12:33:26 PM EDT

[#19]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Here are pics. I will go try a hard case without the decap pin.

http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/8343/1007059.jpg

No need as 1911smith nailed it with the overworked brass.

Unless you are hurting for brass I would scrap it.

Also, I hope it's just distorted because of your camera but the decapping rod looks slightly bent in your picture.

In the other picture it looks straight so it probably is. AeroE has probably nailed that problem...not Lee dies either. I've never encountered a expander set too low, so I learned something new to look out for. The Ak102 and probably others (Saigas?) obviously have machine gun style open chambers. They're not made in reloader's heaven, for sure. Got another reason I'm not crazy to buy an AK now.

Posted: 6/2/2010 12:41:35 PM EDT

[#20]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Here are pics. I will go try a hard case without the decap pin.

http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/8343/1007059.jpg

No need as 1911smith nailed it with the overworked brass.

Unless you are hurting for brass I would scrap it.

Also, I hope it's just distorted because of your camera but the decapping rod looks slightly bent in your picture.

In the other picture it looks straight so it probably is. AeroE has probably nailed that problem...not Lee dies either. I've never encountered a expander set too low, so I learned something new to look out for. The Ak102 and probably others (Saigas?) obviously have machine gun style open chambers. They're not made in reloader's heaven, for sure. Got another reason I'm not crazy to buy an AK now.

Hey I said the expander might be set too low first.

Damn Aero, I feel like that guy in the Fed Ex commercial where he says they can save money by switching to Fed Ex and nobody listens, then the boss says the same thing right after but does a hand motion and everyone cheers.

I must have missed doing the hand motion.

Posted: 6/2/2010 1:10:38 PM EDT

[#21]

Yeah I will just scrap that then. I need brass but I need a working gun more. Even the brass that looks bad doesn't show any stretch marks or anything. And I know it's mostly all once fired due to the red paint. Crazy but a big +1 for why not to buy an AK

Posted: 6/2/2010 2:53:00 PM EDT

[#22]

I just did another 50 and of these only 4 didn't fit. All looked bulged like the pics but 8% is better than 25%.

Posted: 6/2/2010 6:18:48 PM EDT

[#23]

You are doing the right thing to recycle those cases that don't size.

That's what I do with similar cases.

Posted: 6/2/2010 6:42:30 PM EDT

[#24]

I can see the photos now - I agree with everyone above. Brass is too cheap to fool with those pieces. Once the hardened end of the case has been strained that far it's getting close to fracture.

Anyway, you can watch out for a low expander ball on a later project.

Posted: 6/2/2010 6:54:55 PM EDT

[#25]

off center flash holes?

Posted: 6/3/2010 6:18:27 AM EDT

[#26]

Quoted:
off center flash holes?

Well that will stop you cold too. I ran into that with LC '69 .30-06. Flash holes were all over the place in the pocket. I used the universal decapper just for Lee's F it up and the stem slips upward feature.

Looking at those pictures there is no doubt in my mind that I'd toss the bulged brass in the scrap bucket. There's other brass out there that is in better shape than that to bother fooling with it.

Posted: 6/3/2010 12:22:04 PM EDT

[#27]

Possibly off center holes on the ones where it felt like I was just hitting a wall but I will never know as the bad cases have been tossed.

On a good note, I got about 150 or so good ones that just need trimmed and deburred/chamfered then I can load them up. My order for 600 Hornady 75 grain BTHP came in today.

Posted: 6/3/2010 1:10:03 PM EDT

[#28]

You better invest in a broken shell extractor.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - 1/4 of my cases won't size

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