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Posted: 6/2/2010 9:52:48 AM EDT
I'm going through my spent 223 brass that is a mixture of range pickup and known once fired by me. Of this I started with a batch of 100...

Some of the cases that won't resize feel like the depriming rod is hitting the case itself. Just a solid stop. This is happening only with remington cases with red paste on primer pocket.

Others that won't resize start out good but then it gets to hard to push. The die leaves a nice line around the case about 3/16 from the case head. This is happening on PMC and Hornady cases.

I'm lubing the crap out of the cases inside and out so I know it's not a lube issue. At first I thought it was so I literally dipped the case into the dillon case lube to only get identical results. The good news is that the cases that resize fine go smooth as silk and will chamber smooth as silk. I just want more cases to not be scrapped.

Doubt it matters but I'm sizing on a dillon 550
Link Posted: 6/2/2010 10:02:02 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/2/2010 10:13:45 AM EDT by GWhis]
That's it!  It's the Dillon!

Kidding.

The ones that stop cold, might be berdan-primed.

The other problem ones might have been fired in an automatic weapon with really generous chamber.  If that's the case, your die has a hard time handling that.  The line is probably where the case is blown out and where sizing ended.




Link Posted: 6/2/2010 10:04:24 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/2/2010 10:05:41 AM EDT by Scalce]
Is your depriming rod lowered too much so the expander ball is impacting the inside of the cases on some brass?

There shouldn't be a hard stop unless you have berdan primed brass like explained but you would have bent your decapping pin or rod if that was the case.

The resizing ring on the brass is normal and will vary depending on the brass type and what chamber it was originally fired in.
Link Posted: 6/2/2010 10:15:20 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Scalce:
Is your depriming rod lowered too much so the expander ball is impacting the inside of the cases on some brass?

There shouldn't be a hard stop unless you have berdan primed brass like explained but you would have bent your decapping pin or rod if that was the case.



I got it to where at full extension it just lacks touching the shellplate. It doesn't look to be bent or broken as it resized many cases after having issues and on some I could feel it really pull through the neck.
Link Posted: 6/2/2010 10:30:07 AM EDT
Originally Posted By wheelchairman:
Originally Posted By Scalce:
Is your depriming rod lowered too much so the expander ball is impacting the inside of the cases on some brass?

There shouldn't be a hard stop unless you have berdan primed brass like explained but you would have bent your decapping pin or rod if that was the case.



I got it to where at full extension it just lacks touching the shellplate. It doesn't look to be bent or broken as it resized many cases after having issues and on some I could feel it really pull through the neck.


You talking about the die, the decapping pin, or the expander head?
Link Posted: 6/2/2010 10:35:52 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/2/2010 10:37:20 AM EDT by Scalce]
Your resizing die should look something like this.



The decapping pin itself should be protruding from the bottom of the die but the neck expander should not be.

The whole decapping rod can be lowered or raised independantly of the die itself.
Link Posted: 6/2/2010 10:43:10 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/2/2010 10:44:53 AM EDT by GWhis]
Originally Posted By Scalce:
Originally Posted By wheelchairman:
Originally Posted By Scalce:
Is your depriming rod lowered too much so the expander ball is impacting the inside of the cases on some brass?

There shouldn't be a hard stop unless you have berdan primed brass like explained but you would have bent your decapping pin or rod if that was the case.



I got it to where at full extension it just lacks touching the shellplate. It doesn't look to be bent or broken as it resized many cases after having issues and on some I could feel it really pull through the neck.


You talking about the die, the decapping pin, or the expander head?


Yeah, when you say full extension, is your press stroke finished, or stopped short of finish...in other words, your die is screwed down enough (correctly), right?
Are you using Lee dies?
Link Posted: 6/2/2010 10:47:21 AM EDT
The decap pin.

It looks like the pic just posted
Link Posted: 6/2/2010 10:47:44 AM EDT
If cases were fired from AK-102 you'll need Imperial Wax to size. You said cases were Remington ? That's cheap brass. Cheap enough to run through an AK.

Been there and done that. Spray lube just isn't enough.




Link Posted: 6/2/2010 10:53:48 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/2/2010 11:01:05 AM EDT by GWhis]
Originally Posted By Scalce:
Your resizing die should look something like this.



The decapping pin itself should be protruding from the bottom of the die but the neck expander should not be.

The whole decapping rod can be lowered or raised independantly of the die itself.

All true and the reason I asked about Lee dies:

If it's a Lee die, the rod will push up rather than break when pushed into a berdan primed case, changing adjustment.
If it's a Lee die, the lack of a set screw in the die nut means that if you screw or unscrew the die using the die body rather than only the nut, the adjustment will change and cause problems.

Link Posted: 6/2/2010 11:01:23 AM EDT
Dillon spray lube is pretty good and you should not be coming to a hard stop even if the case was fired in an oversized chamber.

You would be hearing creaking and other funky sounds if that was the case and you would need to forcefully push or bang the press handle to get the case loose and lower the ram again which you did not mention.

We need some pics because something is not right somewhere.
Link Posted: 6/2/2010 11:04:54 AM EDT
Originally Posted By 1911smith:
If cases were fired from AK-102 you'll need Imperial Wax to size. You said cases were Remington ? That's cheap brass. Cheap enough to run through an AK.

Been there and done that. Spray lube just isn't enough.


That would certainly account for the hard to crank brass all right.  The other problem has to be berden-primered-brass or a bent depriming pin.

Link Posted: 6/2/2010 11:14:10 AM EDT
Link Posted: 6/2/2010 11:38:44 AM EDT
Originally Posted By AeroE:
A hard stop indicates the expander ball that grips the decapping pin is extended down too far.  The reason it doesn't occur on all cases is because the cases have different web thicknesses in the head.  You're probably real close to clearing.

Try this:  remove the decapping pin altoghether, then size one of the "hard" cases.  Then you'll know if it's the exander hitting or a deformed case being particularly obnoxious.



Hey stop stealing all my glory.

Link Posted: 6/2/2010 11:52:42 AM EDT
Here are pics. I will go try a hard case without the decap pin.















Link Posted: 6/2/2010 12:06:49 PM EDT
Yep, that's brass fired from an AK-102. That's what mine looked like too. Spray lube isn't going to re-size those. Imperial Wax or assembly (white lithium) grease.
Link Posted: 6/2/2010 12:13:32 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 1911smith:
Yep, that's brass fired from an AK-102. That's what mine looked like too. Spray lube isn't going to re-size those. Imperial Wax or assembly (white lithium) grease.


Wow that's crazy.

I am not sure I would even use that brass.

Have you noticed any overworking of the head or early signs of incipient case head separation?

I love Imperial sizing wax for my 300 Whisper and 308 cases that I run on a single stage but I still like Dillon spray lube for massive batches of 223 brass.

I guess you're right that that brass needs it though.

Not worth it for range pickups if you ask me.
Link Posted: 6/2/2010 12:17:21 PM EDT
Originally Posted By wheelchairman:
Here are pics. I will go try a hard case without the decap pin.

http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/8343/1007059.jpg



No need as 1911smith nailed it with the overworked brass.

Unless you are hurting for brass I would scrap it.

Also, I hope it's just distorted because of your camera but the decapping rod looks slightly bent in your picture.
Link Posted: 6/2/2010 12:28:51 PM EDT
Ooohhhhh.... I think I'd scrap that brass.

- AG
Link Posted: 6/2/2010 12:33:26 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Scalce:
Originally Posted By wheelchairman:
Here are pics. I will go try a hard case without the decap pin.

http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/8343/1007059.jpg



No need as 1911smith nailed it with the overworked brass.

Unless you are hurting for brass I would scrap it.

Also, I hope it's just distorted because of your camera but the decapping rod looks slightly bent in your picture.


In the other picture it looks straight so it probably is.  AeroE has probably nailed that problem...not Lee dies either.  I've never encountered a expander set too low, so I learned something new to look out for.  The Ak102 and probably others (Saigas?) obviously have machine gun style open chambers.  They're not made in reloader's heaven, for sure.  Got another reason I'm not crazy to buy an AK now.

Link Posted: 6/2/2010 12:41:35 PM EDT
Originally Posted By GWhis:
Originally Posted By Scalce:
Originally Posted By wheelchairman:
Here are pics. I will go try a hard case without the decap pin.

http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/8343/1007059.jpg



No need as 1911smith nailed it with the overworked brass.

Unless you are hurting for brass I would scrap it.

Also, I hope it's just distorted because of your camera but the decapping rod looks slightly bent in your picture.


In the other picture it looks straight so it probably is.  AeroE has probably nailed that problem...not Lee dies either.  I've never encountered a expander set too low, so I learned something new to look out for.  The Ak102 and probably others (Saigas?) obviously have machine gun style open chambers.  They're not made in reloader's heaven, for sure.  Got another reason I'm not crazy to buy an AK now.



Hey I said the expander might be set too low first.

Damn Aero, I feel like that guy in the Fed Ex commercial where he says they can save money by switching to Fed Ex and nobody listens, then the boss says the same thing right after but does a hand motion and everyone cheers.

I must have missed doing the hand motion.

Link Posted: 6/2/2010 1:10:38 PM EDT
Yeah I will just scrap that then. I need brass but I need a working gun more. Even the brass that looks bad doesn't show any stretch marks or anything. And I know it's mostly all once fired due to the red paint. Crazy but a big +1 for why not to buy an AK
Link Posted: 6/2/2010 2:53:00 PM EDT
I just did another 50 and of these only 4 didn't fit. All looked bulged like the pics but 8% is better than 25%.
Link Posted: 6/2/2010 6:18:48 PM EDT
You are doing the right thing to recycle those cases that don't size.

That's what I do with similar cases.
Link Posted: 6/2/2010 6:42:30 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/2/2010 6:54:55 PM EDT
off center flash holes?
Link Posted: 6/3/2010 6:18:27 AM EDT
Originally Posted By fefu23:
off center flash holes?



Well that will stop you cold too.  I ran into that with LC '69 .30-06.  Flash holes were all over the place in the pocket.  I used the universal decapper just for Lee's F it up and the stem slips upward feature.  

Looking at those pictures there is no doubt in my mind that I'd toss the bulged brass in the scrap bucket.  There's other brass out there that is in better shape than that to bother fooling with it.
Link Posted: 6/3/2010 12:22:04 PM EDT
Possibly off center holes on the ones where it felt like I was just hitting a wall but I will never know as the bad cases have been tossed.

On a good note, I got about 150 or so good ones that just need trimmed and deburred/chamfered then I can load them up. My order for 600 Hornady 75 grain BTHP came in today.
Link Posted: 6/3/2010 1:10:03 PM EDT
You better invest in a broken shell extractor.
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