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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 1/11/2012 12:16:04 PM EDT
Had my From 1 for a while now and tried sending it off to ADCO, but they returned it saying they were not going to be doing any threading for a while and made me eat $40 in shipping, so I will not do business with them again.

Is there anyone else out there who will cut a barrel? My local smith will install a new barrel for $100 but it will cost $300 to buy a new barrel from CMMG. So $400 is rediculous IMHO. His reasoning is that the chrome lining will flake.

So who will do a cut and thread? this includes the prices of removing the barrel.
Link Posted: 1/11/2012 12:41:38 PM EDT
I used TROS a while back. I think it was $45.00



Link Posted: 1/11/2012 12:58:55 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ezielinski:
I used TROS a while back. I think it was $45.00

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l88/GreenvilleRoute/Shooting/226461_2055347429828_1428853993_32387903_3396579_n.jpg


Yes but what did they do? People told me that ADCO only charge $75 to cut and thread, but when I sent it in they told me it was an additional $100 to pull the barrel.
Link Posted: 1/11/2012 1:07:24 PM EDT
do you not have tools to pull barrel?
i always pull a barrel before sending to ADCO...keeps prices good for me.
Link Posted: 1/11/2012 3:56:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By d13s3l:
do you not have tools to pull barrel?
i always pull a barrel before sending to ADCO...keeps prices good for me.

nope
Link Posted: 1/11/2012 4:13:43 PM EDT
Careful, a Form 1 means you have to do the work your self. You can't send it out to have it done... Might have been what the hang-up was.

I got a CMMG barrel - cut the old one off near the muzzle/break - right through the shroud (That pin ate 2 carbide bits... cutting it was much easier) - this way I could use the CMMG thread adapter for my suppressor.

I made my own wrenches - bought some cheapies and ground them down to the thickness required.

Good luck.
Link Posted: 1/11/2012 7:17:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By CBPO:
Careful, a Form 1 means you have to do the work your self. You can't send it out to have it done... Might have been what the hang-up was.



The hangup was that their smith was sick and would not be back for several months. Any class 3 dealer/manufacturer should be able to do the work.


Link Posted: 1/11/2012 7:45:06 PM EDT
Originally Posted By CBPO:
Careful, a Form 1 means you have to do the work your self. You can't send it out to have it done... Might have been what the hang-up was.

I got a CMMG barrel - cut the old one off near the muzzle/break - right through the shroud (That pin ate 2 carbide bits... cutting it was much easier) - this way I could use the CMMG thread adapter for my suppressor.

I made my own wrenches - bought some cheapies and ground them down to the thickness required.

Good luck.


Where did you get that idea?

Link Posted: 1/11/2012 7:50:15 PM EDT
Form 1 means you have to do the work? Simply not true. Below is straight from the TROS website:

If you already have a PS90 and have an approved Form 1 send us the barrel ONLY, along with a copy of the approved Form 1, and we will cut and crown the barrel, thread it M12x1 LEFT HAND and ship it back to you with a thread adapter for you to install in your receiver. The cost for this conversion is currently $167.00 and does NOT include engraving the receiver. Under Current BATFE regulations if you do the Form 1 conversion your name, city and state must be engraved on the receiver in plain sight in letters at least 1/16” high and at least .003 deep.
Link Posted: 1/12/2012 10:19:31 AM EDT
You sent them the whole rifle when what you should have done was cut through the barrel and shroud right behind the blind pin so the barrel will just slide out. Then you just send the barrel off to be shortended to the proper length and threaded.
Link Posted: 1/12/2012 10:22:03 AM EDT
Originally Posted By CBPO:
Careful, a Form 1 means you have to do the work your self. You can't send it out to have it done... Might have been what the hang-up was.



Baloney!
Link Posted: 1/12/2012 11:19:29 AM EDT
Originally Posted By brazos609:
You sent them the whole rifle when what you should have done was cut through the barrel and shroud right behind the blind pin so the barrel will just slide out. Then you just send the barrel off to be shortended to the proper length and threaded.


This
Link Posted: 1/12/2012 6:30:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/12/2012 6:38:48 PM EDT by CBPO]
"baloney!" - thanks...

Let me clarify - Above I said that someone couldn't do the work for you on a Form 1 - I meant modify the weapon as a whole. They can modify a barrel for you - no problem - detached from the weapon - but they cannot "assemble" the SBR. Did I read wrong, or did he not say he sent the receiver with barrel attached? He said he didn't have "tools to pull the barrel" leading me to believe it was still attached.

Am I wrong on this? Feel free to jump all over me again.
Link Posted: 1/12/2012 7:25:26 PM EDT
Originally Posted By CBPO:
"baloney!" - thanks...

Let me clarify - Above I said that someone couldn't do the work for you on a Form 1 - I meant modify the weapon as a whole. They can modify a barrel for you - no problem - detached from the weapon - but they cannot "assemble" the SBR. Did I read wrong, or did he not say he sent the receiver with barrel attached? He said he didn't have "tools to pull the barrel" leading me to believe it was still attached.

Am I wrong on this? Feel free to jump all over me again.


Yes, you are wrong. You can have a Form 1 approved and have someone build the rifle for you.
Link Posted: 1/12/2012 8:02:07 PM EDT
Then I am apparently mis-informed - Right from the NFA themselves. Agent Snook to be specific - concerning my Mp5 build. The original builder was marked in the "other markings" section of the Form 1 - which prompted a call from her warning me about farming out the work - and to make sure that I in fact was the one assembling the SBR.

Strange that they would do that - or care so much - if it isn't so.

Link Posted: 1/12/2012 8:15:53 PM EDT
If YOU submit the form 1, YOU are the builder. You can send the barrel out to have it shortened, you can't have someone else assemble it into an NFA item.



So hack the barrel shorter than 16" and it's an SBR.
Then send it out to have it cut and crowned correctly.
Link Posted: 1/12/2012 8:19:56 PM EDT
Originally Posted By CBPO:
Then I am apparently mis-informed - Right from the NFA themselves. Agent Snook to be specific - concerning my Mp5 build. The original builder was marked in the "other markings" section of the Form 1 - which prompted a call from her warning me about farming out the work - and to make sure that I in fact was the one assembling the SBR.

Strange that they would do that - or care so much - if it isn't so.



Sounds like you didn't fill in your Form 1 correctly. Why would you put that in "Other markings"?
Link Posted: 1/12/2012 8:58:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/13/2012 7:39:48 AM EDT by CBPO]
See Sparky, that is how I understood it as well.
Link Posted: 1/12/2012 9:02:22 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/13/2012 7:43:37 AM EDT by CBPO]
tctlrld - I was told to by a class 3 I asked for assistance to make sure I completed it correctly.

It is another marking that was engraved, non-factory - therefore falls under said category.

It cleared, so I doubt it was completely "wrong."

I guess I was misinformed by the ATF/NFA, as well as the local class 3... Would have been easier to farm out that Mp5.

Oh well, 3 form 1's later and I've got 3 SBR's - so it worked out I guess.

I guess it made sense to me when they told me so I didn't queston it - Form 1 filed by manufacturer (me) - so I would have to put it together. Otherwise the shop would file the Form 1 and transfer it to me on a form 4...

Sorry for the misinformation guys - I feel just as misled.

*** Update *** I called the NFA - not much more clarification there. Called my buddy Jeff, a class 3 - he said it is possible and I stand corrected. As long as the business holds a Type 2 license. Wish I would have known before I spent money and time on my own tools, etc - would have been nice not to frig with that Mp5.
Link Posted: 1/13/2012 7:48:05 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/13/2012 7:48:59 AM EDT by dustingaunder]
I can do it. If you have to send the gun, do it with the form 1. A dremel and a cuttoff wheel will save you some money. I also require you to purchase and include the flash hider or adapter of your choice with the shipment. Price goes up a little for the work since I have to cut the barrel off and the return shipping is quite a bit higher. PM me if you're interested.

Here's the last one I did next to a real deal P90 barrel.

Link Posted: 1/13/2012 8:22:47 AM EDT
CPBO, you are correct about being misled by the ATF. They say, and write things about law and policy that are conflicting all the time,

It is better to ask a few people like Tony-K of the class 3 sub-forum and build a consensus from information gathered there and abroad. The ATF can often lead you astray.
Link Posted: 1/13/2012 8:51:03 AM EDT
I see that now - I'm not going to lie - I was pretty anger driven last night, so I appologize if I offended anyone with my persistance. You would think that the agent would steer you right when it comes to their specialty. I know I don't say sh#t at work unless I know it as fact. Opens you up to liability - and also makes you look like a dumb-ass.

Link Posted: 1/13/2012 8:59:08 AM EDT
Even though this thread is a bit derailed, does anyone have the SBR barrel specs for cut/threading?
Link Posted: 1/13/2012 3:45:37 PM EDT
check your pm's
Link Posted: 1/13/2012 5:00:28 PM EDT
Originally Posted By TurkeyLeg:
check your pm's


Appreciate it thank you.
Link Posted: 1/13/2012 6:26:37 PM EDT
Ok I will see if I can take it over to my parent's place and use my father's tools to pull the barrel.

If that is possible, who is the cheapest out there to cut and engrave?
Link Posted: 1/14/2012 7:07:21 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Gelgoog:
Ok I will see if I can take it over to my parent's place and use my father's tools to pull the barrel.

If that is possible, who is the cheapest out there to cut and engrave?


Gelgoog, as you know, i used Adco to do my barrel, and it worked out great for me. however, i only picked them because of their turnaround time. Hi Dessert Dog and TROS both do this work, and HDCP does as well, i think. Hi Desert has a few horror stories floating around on the FN related boards though, so i didnt consider them. if i had to do it all over again and i couldnt use Adco, id go with TROS, no question. since Adco pissed you off, id say your best choice now is TROS. honestly, Mark at TROS is pretty much the guy with best reputation when it comes to this stuff.

however, none of those companies cut AND engrave, as far as i can tell. i had to send my receiver to Ident Marking, and they did a great job with a quick turnaround. less than two weeks, if i remember correctly.

the only tools you need are a cutoff wheel (or hacksaw), a thin 15mm and a thin 19mm or 3/4 wrench. the internet tutorials are great, but dont bother trying to drill the pin out. its a waste of time. if you know youre getting the barrel cut down anyway, just hack it in half, about an inch or two past the pin. it doesnt have to be pretty, just leave a four or five inch stub sticking out of the receiver when you cut it. after that, disassembly doesnt require any tools. you dont need the wrenches until you put it together again.
Link Posted: 1/14/2012 9:05:30 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/14/2012 9:08:23 AM EDT by Gelgoog]

Originally Posted By TurkeyLeg:
Originally Posted By Gelgoog:
Ok I will see if I can take it over to my parent's place and use my father's tools to pull the barrel.

If that is possible, who is the cheapest out there to cut and engrave?


Gelgoog, as you know, i used Adco to do my barrel, and it worked out great for me. however, i only picked them because of their turnaround time. Hi Dessert Dog and TROS both do this work, and HDCP does as well, i think. Hi Desert has a few horror stories floating around on the FN related boards though, so i didnt consider them. if i had to do it all over again and i couldnt use Adco, id go with TROS, no question. since Adco pissed you off, id say your best choice now is TROS. honestly, Mark at TROS is pretty much the guy with best reputation when it comes to this stuff.

however, none of those companies cut AND engrave, as far as i can tell. i had to send my receiver to Ident Marking, and they did a great job with a quick turnaround. less than two weeks, if i remember correctly.

the only tools you need are a cutoff wheel (or hacksaw), a thin 15mm and a thin 19mm or 3/4 wrench. the internet tutorials are great, but dont bother trying to drill the pin out. its a waste of time. if you know youre getting the barrel cut down anyway, just hack it in half, about an inch or two past the pin. it doesnt have to be pretty, just leave a four or five inch stub sticking out of the receiver when you cut it. after that, disassembly doesnt require any tools. you dont need the wrenches until you put it together again.

ok that sounds good.

Will it need an adapter to use the P90 flash?
Link Posted: 1/14/2012 2:38:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/14/2012 2:40:31 PM EDT by CBPO]
Almost forgot:

I got a cheap wooden dowel / rod to hold the springs in place, pushed the barrel out with it - so I didn't have to worry about any kind of issues during re-assembly.

Should be able to find one about the same diameter of the barrel at any craft store.

Push the barrel right out with it, and then when you get the cut barrel back, push the dowell out with your barrel. Everything will stay nice and lined up.


CMMG has a P90 type hider that should fit - and they also have a 1/2x28 adapter available if you plan to run a suppressor, or if you want to use a different hider.
Link Posted: 2/16/2012 8:07:13 PM EDT
Originally Posted By CBPO:
Almost forgot:

I got a cheap wooden dowel / rod to hold the springs in place, pushed the barrel out with it - so I didn't have to worry about any kind of issues during re-assembly.

Should be able to find one about the same diameter of the barrel at any craft store.

Push the barrel right out with it, and then when you get the cut barrel back, push the dowell out with your barrel. Everything will stay nice and lined up.


CMMG has a P90 type hider that should fit - and they also have a 1/2x28 adapter available if you plan to run a suppressor, or if you want to use a different hider.





CMMG barrel and P90 style FH.


Link Posted: 2/18/2012 7:10:17 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/19/2012 8:23:22 AM EDT by Homeinvader]
Originally Posted By tctlrld:
Originally Posted By CBPO:
"baloney!" - thanks...

Let me clarify - Above I said that someone couldn't do the work for you on a Form 1 - I meant modify the weapon as a whole. They can modify a barrel for you - no problem - detached from the weapon - but they cannot "assemble" the SBR. Did I read wrong, or did he not say he sent the receiver with barrel attached? He said he didn't have "tools to pull the barrel" leading me to believe it was still attached.

Am I wrong on this? Feel free to jump all over me again.


Yes, you are wrong. You can have a Form 1 approved and have someone build the rifle for you.


No, actually you are wrong.

Anyone may modify the parts, but only the Form 1 applicant can create the NFA firearm. This is why it's an application to make a firearm rather than just register it.

A common sense understanding of a Form 1 should be all it takes to know this, but here it is straight from the NFA Handbook:

Section 6.4 Approval of Form 1.
Non-FFL/SOT’s may seek approval to manufacture an NFA firearm (e.g., short-barreled rifles, short-barreled, shotguns, wallet guns, etc.) via submission of an ATF Form 1. Upon receipt of the completed Form 1, ATF will process the application and, if approved, a tax stamp will be affixed to the original of the form and the approved application will be returned to the applicant. Approval by ATF will effect registration of the firearm to the applicant. Upon receipt of the approved application, the applicant may make the firearm described on the approved Form 1. The approved form must be retained by the applicant and made available at all times for inspection by ATF officers or investigators. Note: Under no circumstances may the firearm in question be made prior to receipt of the approved Form 1.
The approval of the Form 1 application authorizes the applicant to make the firearm. The approval does not authorize the applicant to convey or ship the firearm to another person to manufacture the NFA firearm. If another person will manufacture the NFA firearm, the other person would be the maker and the application must be submitted by that person. Subsequent to the making, the firearm could then be transferred, subsequent to an approved Form 4 application, to the person who wanted the modification to be made.
If the applicant on the Form 1 lacks the skill, ability, and/or equipment to manufacture the NFA firearm, the applicant, after receipt of the approved Form 1, can have the firearm created or modified at a premises other than shown on the approved Form 1 as long as the creation or modification was done under the direct oversight of the applicant, thus having the applicant retain custody and control of the firearm. If the location is outside the applicant’s State and the firearm being made is a short barreled rifle, short barreled shotgun, destructive device, or an unserviceable machinegun which is being reactivated, the applicant will also need to request permission to transport the firearm interstate as required by 27 CFR 478.28.

The course of action you suggest creates a horrible chain of violations since you are invalidating your Form 1 when another person or entity creates it.

Anything to the contrary told to you by an SOT or even NFA examiner is in error.
Link Posted: 2/19/2012 7:59:00 AM EDT
When I did mine I bought a cut PS90 barrel from a guy here. I sent it off to Hi-Desert Dog to be cut down, threaded, and got a muzzle adapter for a Gemtech bilock while waiting on my Form 1.

When my Form 1 came in, I sent the barreled reciever to Henderson Defense, who engraved it and drilled out the blind pin in the barrel shroud / barrel.

When it came back, I removed the old 16" barrel and installed the SBR barrel.

Link Posted: 2/20/2012 2:44:37 PM EDT
Originally Posted By ODA_564:
When I did mine I bought a cut PS90 barrel from a guy here. I sent it off to Hi-Desert Dog to be cut down, threaded, and got a muzzle adapter for a Gemtech bilock while waiting on my Form 1.

When my Form 1 came in, I sent the barreled reciever to Henderson Defense, who engraved it and drilled out the blind pin in the barrel shroud / barrel.

When it came back, I removed the old 16" barrel and installed the SBR barrel.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v220/ODA564/Guns/PS901.jpg


And that's how you do it legally...
Link Posted: 2/24/2012 8:14:02 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/24/2012 8:16:12 AM EDT by BravoSector1]
The "wood dowel" technique worked well for me. I believe it's a 3/8" dowel needed to capture the springs when the barrel is absent. I simply waited for my Form 1 to clear and arrive...then pressed forward. Hi Desert Dog did the barrel cut and thread work.

1. Safe/clear weapon
2. Cut the barrel just behind the blind pin (towards the receiver of the weapon, not towards the flash hider). A dremel tool with cutting wheel or hacksaw will do this easily.
3. Remove barrel shroud slowly...reverse thread pitch on this, it should come off by hand and you will expose the capture spring surrounding the barrel.
4. Take a section of your 3/8" down and push the factory barrel out of the the receiver ensuring that the capture spring flows over the dowel...take your time, the charging handle springs can bind up this process.
5. Send your barrel off to be cut and threaded...and receiver off to be engraved. I used CMMGs 1/2x28 thread adaptor for suppressor use.

You'll be pleased with this SBR!

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