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Posted: 10/22/2004 1:49:05 PM EST
can you shoot wolf ammo in a LMT M-4 ??
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 1:50:16 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/22/2004 1:50:24 PM EST by Engineer]

Link Posted: 10/22/2004 2:20:02 PM EST
No!!!!! DO NOT shoot Wolf in your gun!!!!

Send it to:

Nationwide
care of:
GunStock 3
TEXAS, USA

Link Posted: 10/22/2004 2:20:06 PM EST

Read this thread, then decide if it is worth the risk.
www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=66&t=206625

Even with a chrome bore I would not do it unless I had to. Some people like to shoot up a storm at the range, so Wolf is the only ammo in their budget. If it works for them fine.

Link Posted: 10/22/2004 2:21:25 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 2:24:22 PM EST
[Ozarka Guys] Why thats like using fine Ozarka water in a radiator, feeding caviar to a hog, using the Mona Lisa for a doormat...[Ozarka Guys]

Link Posted: 10/22/2004 2:30:59 PM EST
I forget which class it was at Blackwater, on the end of the first day the guy using wolf in his blaster was having a fit with fte's. He was aware of the issues, but said the cheap price was worth it to him??
I think most people don't see alot of problems with their gear because they really don't shoot them enough to see how they will run after getting alittle dirty or hot.

Mark
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 2:40:39 PM EST

Originally Posted By mark5pt56:
I think most people don't see alot of problems with their gear because they really don't shoot them enough to see how they will run after getting alittle dirty or hot.

Mark



A-MEN!
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 2:57:15 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 3:00:28 PM EST
Well what's supposed to be the problem with Wolf, is it the steel cases?

I know AR's are a totally different thing, but I use it in my AK's all the time. Real high quality .223 seems too expensive to just play around out in the desert with.
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 3:03:08 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/22/2004 3:04:54 PM EST by shaggy]
AGNTSA


Wolf is fine. I've shot thousands of rounds of Wolf through my M16's and never had a problem. Chrome lined barrel and a milspec 5.56 (not .223) chamber is highly recommended though. There's too much damn bandwaggoning by people who have never shot the stuff, but don't like it because 'some guy at the range told me...' BS. If Wolf doesn't work in your gun, the problem is not the ammo. Any weapon you'd bet your life on should be able to shoot Wolf with no problems; all my M16s do (which is not to say you should rely on Wolf for a SHTF situation, but your gun should be able to function with it)
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 3:11:42 PM EST
What about IMI brass ammo? I need some cheap plinking ammo.
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 3:12:35 PM EST
I have run Wolf through my AK and AR for years! Here's one for you, I had been shooting wolf through my bushmaster all day at a machingun shoot. I had some nice Winchester brass ammo I wanted to get rid of as I only had about 25 rounds of it. The second round failed to extract, found it to be a brocken extraction rim on the brass itself!

We also ran wolf through my friend's M-16 all day, I thought we'd have a problem with the laquer getting stickey, we had no probs at all!
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 3:14:09 PM EST

Originally Posted By shaggy:
AGNTSA


Wolf is fine. I've shot thousands of rounds of Wolf through my M16's and never had a problem. Chrome lined barrel and a milspec 5.56 (not .223) chamber is highly recommended though. There's too much damn bandwaggoning by people who have never shot the stuff, but don't like it because 'some guy at the range told me...' BS. If Wolf doesn't work in your gun, the problem is not the ammo. Any weapon you'd bet your life on should be able to shoot Wolf with no problems; all my M16s do (which is not to say you should rely on Wolf for a SHTF situation, but your gun should be able to function with it)



Big +1

Hey, most folks wouldn't use Wal-Mart Winchester White box for personal defense, right?

Wolf is range ammo. That's all. No more, no less.

But... you can still send it to me. I don't charge late fees
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 5:01:30 PM EST
I am just gonna make a guess here..

Wolf is like the Tacpoints..

Not expensive enough.. But will work fine for 99% of what everyone here does with it..

Get wolf, there is nearlly 8K rounds of wolf thru my AK and I dare you to find the slightest hint of laquer build up in the chamber..
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 5:55:15 PM EST

Originally Posted By sharky47:
I have run Wolf through my AK and AR for years! Here's one for you, I had been shooting wolf through my bushmaster all day at a machingun shoot. I had some nice Winchester brass ammo I wanted to get rid of as I only had about 25 rounds of it. The second round failed to extract, found it to be a brocken extraction rim on the brass itself!

We also ran wolf through my friend's M-16 all day, I thought we'd have a problem with the laquer getting stickey, we had no probs at all!




Hmmmm. The Winchester got stuck AFTER the Wolf was fired, but before the rifle was inspected or cleaned. I do not see Winchester at fault. There are too many variables and unknowns.

This is not a flame. If I fired thousands of rounds a day for fun, I might choose Wolf too. Just not in my good gun.
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 5:58:33 PM EST
Never personally used wolf in my AR, but never had a problem with it in any of my guns. Some say the steel can cause greater wear. I personally only use Lake City which is nato spec, so I trust it more for that reason...
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 6:02:27 PM EST
My LMT was broke in on Wolf. Worked 100%. Then again Iv fired both laquer & teflon Wolf with no malfunction of any kind through Colt, HK, Glock, Norinco SKS, Mac90, Bulgarian SA93, Ruger Mini 14, & possably a few others on many many trips to the range, I do like the newer teflon much better. Get Wolf, shoot it, save money, be happy.
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 6:20:36 PM EST

Originally Posted By gsd2053:
My LMT was broke in on Wolf. Worked 100%. Then again Iv fired both laquer & teflon Wolf with no malfunction of any kind through Colt, HK, Glock, Norinco SKS, Mac90, Bulgarian SA93, Ruger Mini 14, & possably a few others on many many trips to the range, I do like the newer teflon much better. Get Wolf, shoot it, save money, be happy.



The new coating on wolf, does it melt the same or is it more durable than the laquer. How dirty is it?
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 6:29:56 PM EST
EH its better than the laquer by a long shot, But it aint brass. However It all cleans up well enough. So that when you show it "you weapon" off to the upper class foke, you can deny you ever shoot the stuff.
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 6:59:49 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 7:38:00 PM EST
If your AR is so finicky about ammo that it can't reliably shoot any 5.56 or .223 ammo out there then it's a shitty AR. Flame On.
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 7:54:00 PM EST

Originally Posted By DaPhotoGuy:
If your AR is so finicky about ammo that it can't reliably shoot any 5.56 or .223 ammo out there then it's a shitty AR. Flame On.

\

+1

I have a post on here right now about RRA vs. CMMG. My biggest concern is reliability not accuracy since most guns are more accurate then I am as a shooter. I want an AR that WILL shoot Wolf.
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 8:13:28 PM EST
If your AR wont run on wolf somethings wrong with the rifle or the person maintaining it,I have gone over 5000 rounds so far and half of that was the new polymer case,my gun eats it,a good field AR should eat anything
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 9:11:10 PM EST
Got at least a couple hundred rounds through my new Bushmaster so far, all wolf, polymer stuff. No problems yet. I will continue to shoot it until I run into problems.
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 9:23:48 PM EST
My standard confused reply to this question. Why spent $3,000 on an AR and run $3 boxes of ammo through it. Why not spend $1500 on a very similar AR by RRA, BM, Armalite, etc. and buy a whole bunch of at least middle of the road ammo.
Wolf is the AR equivalent of eating at McDonalds. Sure it will do the job, you might occasionally get sick, you don't know what's in it, and god damn, if you have alternatives and can afford it, go some place else.
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 10:11:11 PM EST
Uhhh....well bullets are expensive so if you're going to go out and shoot just for the fun of it like I usually do then why would you want to spend$8 for a box of 20 bullets. If I bought those $8 a box bullets I wouldn't be shooting very much. I also would buy a $3000 AR.
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 10:12:48 PM EST
I have Run thousands of rounds through my AR's of Wolf ammo, with only one hitch, and that was due to an extremely fouled extractor, otherwise I have never had a problem. I personally have decided that I won't buy Wolf for the range anymore for one simple reason... XM 193 is incredibly more accurate for me. Purely my opinion and experience.

I would never flame anyone for using Wolf, and FTE, and FTF are realities with any ammo in any semi auto rifle. Shoving a wooden dowel down your rifle to clear it, on the otherhand is User Error

This was not the ammo's fault, just the operators.

+1000 for your SHTF rifle should be able to digest any ammo that you feed it!!! (with one minor exception, The Operator should know proper techniques to fix any simple malfunction)
Link Posted: 10/23/2004 3:45:11 AM EST

Originally Posted By 89grand:
Uhhh....well bullets are expensive so if you're going to go out and shoot just for the fun of it like I usually do then why would you want to spend$8 for a box of 20 bullets. If I bought those $8 a box bullets I wouldn't be shooting very much. I also would buy a $3000 AR.



Then buy ammo in bulk. Nobody says you have to spend $8 per 20 round box. If you buy it by the 500 round can of better quality Winchester, Lake City, etc. then you still can shoot a lot without costing you a fortune. Like my analogy to food, hopefully you don't live off of fast food and TV dinners even though it's cheap and does the job.
Link Posted: 10/23/2004 7:24:33 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/23/2004 8:14:16 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/23/2004 8:57:22 PM EST by FortyFiveAutomatic]
Oh no, it's this rabble again!



IMO, Wolf works just as well as any brass ammo I have encountered, if not better. I have put over 3k thru my Bushy, and never once have I had a FTF or FTE with either the lacquer or the polymer stuff. It doesn't foul up any worse, nor do I experience much difference in accuracy compared to whitebox or xm193.

Case in point (and I will be repeating the words of others here), if your rifle is solidly built, it should digest most anything, but what I WOULD stay away from is Silver Bear. It has a tendency to expand and get stuck in the chamber, which, I will reiterate, is an error I have never encountered with Wolf and one that I have never even heard of happening with the new polymer production Wolf.

But it does beg the question. If you bought a very high quality AR, it would appear therefore that you can afford to put the best ammo through it, so why not?
Link Posted: 10/24/2004 11:53:52 AM EST
Hoe good is IMI and where is a good cheap place to buy ammo??
Link Posted: 10/24/2004 11:58:28 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/24/2004 11:59:52 AM EST by Idamain]
oops, sorry
Link Posted: 10/24/2004 11:59:01 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/24/2004 11:59:36 AM EST by Idamain]
oops, sorry
Link Posted: 10/24/2004 12:02:05 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/24/2004 12:03:29 PM EST by Marksman14]

Originally Posted By supertrucker:
Hoe good is IMI and where is a good cheap place to buy ammo??



I have a bunch of IMI, and I think it is just as good as LC or Q3131.

But...I bought it at...gasp...botach.

The IMI is my break-in/bench/"shtf" ammo.

For my plinking, I use the new wolf ammo. Plenty good for my rifles, no problems yet.
Link Posted: 10/24/2004 12:29:33 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/24/2004 12:30:03 PM EST by model927]
The reason why I use low quality wolf is the fact that god forbid there is an ammo shortage or worse your AR will need to function with whatever you can get your hands on and my rifles function with what ever I feed them.Of course they got between 2 and 3000 rounds of brass cased so the moving parts were nice and smooth before I started using the steel cased crap.I wouldnt use wolf in a brand new rifle until the rifle loosens up a bit.
Link Posted: 10/24/2004 4:09:33 PM EST
I have fired @ 7000 rounds of Wolf through my M16.
There are no signs of wear and it has been 100%.
I only use chrome barrels, Bushy or Colt.

Then I bought a case of Lake City 5.56.
WOW! What a difference.. I have now used 2000 rounds
of Lake City and IMI surplus.

The mil spec ammo is MUCH cleaner(worth the extra money)
and MUCH hotter. We shoot cans and other junk @ 100 yards
and they really jump with good ammo. Try good ammo and you
won't go back.

Wolf is ok to plink, good ammo makes the day better.
Link Posted: 10/24/2004 4:20:58 PM EST
Nope, no way, no more Wolf through my ARs. It's fine in my AKs but I have yet to find one of my 6 ARs that will reliably feed Wolf. They feed everything else just fine, even PMC but not Wolf. I can't get through a whole mag without a failure so I figured the stuff just isn't for me.
Link Posted: 10/24/2004 4:33:23 PM EST
My old STOLED ar PRE-BAN Essential Arms lower and Bushmaster m-4 upper feed it all i could give to it. I am going to replace my stolen M-4 with a 16'LE LMT M-4 or reg. LMT M-416'' I hope this week.
Link Posted: 10/24/2004 4:33:27 PM EST
This weekend I ran 800 rounds of it through my m4gry and did not have a single failure. Sure it's cheap and underpowered IMO but its all I could find in time for a shoot so WTH.

I also ran 300 rounds of S African through it and that was a bit more fun.

Run whatever you feel like. If my rifle won't feed ammo I give it whether it's cheap or mil spec I won't trust it and if I can't trust it then WTH am I doing with it in the first place.

JMNSHO
Link Posted: 10/24/2004 6:11:52 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/24/2004 6:14:05 PM EST by DaPhotoGuy]

Originally Posted By M4arc:
Nope, no way, no more Wolf through my ARs. It's fine in my AKs but I have yet to find one of my 6 ARs that will reliably feed Wolf. They feed everything else just fine, even PMC but not Wolf. I can't get through a whole mag without a failure so I figured the stuff just isn't for me.



As I said then, you have 6 shitty ARs. Why would you want to own guns that are THAT picky about what you feed them. Weapons of war should be fool proof. You shouldn't have to baby them.
Link Posted: 10/24/2004 6:34:43 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/24/2004 7:37:39 PM EST

Originally Posted By M4arc:
Nope, no way, no more Wolf through my ARs. It's fine in my AKs but I have yet to find one of my 6 ARs that will reliably feed Wolf. They feed everything else just fine, even PMC but not Wolf. I can't get through a whole mag without a failure so I figured the stuff just isn't for me.



Dang 6 lemons what are the chances of that.
Link Posted: 10/25/2004 3:17:53 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/25/2004 3:38:57 AM EST

Originally Posted By DaPhotoGuy:

Originally Posted By M4arc:
Nope, no way, no more Wolf through my ARs. It's fine in my AKs but I have yet to find one of my 6 ARs that will reliably feed Wolf. They feed everything else just fine, even PMC but not Wolf. I can't get through a whole mag without a failure so I figured the stuff just isn't for me.



As I said then, you have 6 shitty ARs. Why would you want to own guns that are THAT picky about what you feed them. Weapons of war should be fool proof. You shouldn't have to baby them.




+1 Bigtime
Link Posted: 10/25/2004 4:33:46 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/25/2004 4:35:01 AM EST by M4arc]

Originally Posted By DaPhotoGuy:

Originally Posted By M4arc:
Nope, no way, no more Wolf through my ARs. It's fine in my AKs but I have yet to find one of my 6 ARs that will reliably feed Wolf. They feed everything else just fine, even PMC but not Wolf. I can't get through a whole mag without a failure so I figured the stuff just isn't for me.



As I said then, you have 6 shitty ARs. Why would you want to own guns that are THAT picky about what you feed them. Weapons of war should be fool proof. You shouldn't have to baby them.



I guess so. I guess those Bushmasters, Colts, LMTs and various other manufactures that I have are all shitty. I should have consulted with you guys before I purchased them.
Link Posted: 10/25/2004 4:45:41 AM EST
No Wolf for me...

I put about 1000 rounds through my Bushmaster of Wolf (lacquer coated). Ran fine. Switched to XM193 both Federal and Winchester. FTE's all over the place. I replaced the extractor, the extractor spring, and I cleaned the hell out of the chamber. Tried the xm193 again. FTE's. Tried Wolf again, no problems.... The XM193 works fine in my other uppers even when I swap the bolt assembly out of the bushmaster into those uppers.I have NEVER run Wolf through my other uppers. I think that the Wolf ammo may have screwed up the chamber in the BM. Oh well it's a 16" HBAR that I want to rebarrel myself. Since I can afford XM193, that's what I'm using from now on.


-sc
Link Posted: 10/25/2004 6:56:08 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/25/2004 9:15:42 AM EST by _DR]
Wolf Range report:

Just put 250 rounds through my DPMS upper/EA15 lower 11.5" carbine yesterday at magnum sports center. All Wolf Polymer-coated, 62 grain FMJ, the new stuff.

Zero malfunctions of any kind.

All rapid fire with am ML2 red dot on FBI Silhouettes at 50 yards, the stuff worked fine. I daresay if you have a problem with the new polymer coated Wolf, your rifle is finicky on ammo. At 12 cents a shot, it's a good value for blasting IMO. Chamber/bore cleaned up fine and easily. I think Wolf may have finally got it right.
Link Posted: 10/25/2004 7:41:19 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/25/2004 8:01:10 AM EST
In terms of reliability, Wolf is better than brass.

(IME)
Link Posted: 10/25/2004 8:06:22 AM EST

In terms of reliability, Wolf is better than brass.



Care to define and explain those terms?
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