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Posted: 7/29/2007 5:51:10 PM EDT
[#1]
Yup... I don't know anybody that intentionally hunts mountain lion with anything 22 caliber. There are folks that will brag on the 'net about cleanly killing animals with a too-small gun. IMHO, they just got lucky on a stunt. The others that cripple or wound an animal never seem to let everybody know they were stupid. |
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Posted: 7/29/2007 5:51:30 PM EDT
[#2]
You would have to achieve an eye shot into the brain to have a chance of a one shot kill.
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Posted: 7/29/2007 5:54:42 PM EDT
[#3]
There's plenty of vital targets on an animal other than that . 
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Posted: 7/29/2007 6:02:04 PM EDT
[#4]
Oh brother |
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Posted: 7/29/2007 6:04:59 PM EDT
[#5]
I decently placed 5.56 will kill anything in north america. I would have no reservation about using it on a mountain lion. They are thin skinned and with a broadside shot would drop it like a rock, with one shot. Plenty of penetration to drop a mountain lion, which is really no different than shooting a deer as far as penetration needed. Would I want a bigger gun to use on a close in mountain lion, yeah, probably, but plenty of lions have been put down with handguns far less powerful than a 5.56.
Then again, 99% percent of the people on here have never even seen what a 5.56 does to a deer sized animal within it's fragmentation range, so they are just answering out thier ass anyways. I have, and i wouldn't be worried at all about shooting a mountain lion with one. |
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Posted: 7/29/2007 6:12:16 PM EDT
[#6]
I hunt predators and deer with my mini-14 in .223 and i like it.If it has enough power to kill a human why wouldn't it kill a mountain lion i have shot deer with mine and it drops them in thier tracks i think its a good little round for hunting/defense but the main thing is bullet placement it has some to do with the bullet but again its all about placement you don't have to shoot 30 times to make sure he's dead just take your time and make a good shot. i use remington 55gr. pointed soft points nothing fancy just a good round
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Posted: 7/29/2007 6:14:11 PM EDT
[#7]
if you execute a "sneak attack" youll hit with 55% more damage and have a chance of knocking your opponent down.. this is only if your in the bonus round |
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Posted: 7/29/2007 6:20:41 PM EDT
[#8]
Shot placement is EVERYTHING. I think that i would want a heavier bullet for game that large though, like maybe a 77 gr.
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Posted: 7/29/2007 6:40:40 PM EDT
[#9]
Get a bayonet just in case.
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Posted: 7/29/2007 7:14:10 PM EDT
[#10]
Most of my buddies hunt cougar with a 22LR and 4-6 dogs. 3 shots from a 22LR will knock the wind right out of a cougar. I would imagine that a 5.56 would destroy a mountain lion.
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Posted: 7/29/2007 7:41:23 PM EDT
[#11]
I have never killed a cougar. I have however killed many, many coyotes and foxes. I have seen a fair number of coyotes hit with perfect shot placement from a .223, travel a looong ways, or run off never to be seen again. The general consensus among predator hunters is that .223 is the bare minimum....for good reason. Most prefer 22-250 or .243/6mm performance.
Wild animals running on adrenalin are a far different animal than a human being in shock from being shot. Of course a .223 is not the worst gun you could use as a "protection" gun for cougars, but it's far from the best either. Using a gun to defend your life against a pissed-off cougar is a completely different matter than shooting a treed cat. Personally, I'd feel the best with a .44 mag, .45LC, or 45-70 in a Marlin carbine. JMO....and worth what it cost you |
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Posted: 7/29/2007 7:46:44 PM EDT
[#12]
+1 I've shot biggish stuff with .223,if you pop the bugger at "combat" i.e. 50yrds and under you should be fine with ether 55 or 62gr. FMJ or better a good soft point of the same weight. Also tell your friend to learn to "double tap" with his AR and he should be as fine as fine can be. Two things:anything,really,over twenty yards isn't self-defence but hunting-remember that when you tell the game warden after. Also stay the hell away from varmit .223!!!! that shit'll just get ya in deep with kitty! the "deer" loads some ammo makers put out is what you want,the 55gr. Noslers you mentioned is perfect. |
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Posted: 7/29/2007 7:54:53 PM EDT
[#13]
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Posted: 7/29/2007 8:54:06 PM EDT
[#14]
Ah why not just go cave man style?
http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/8672/cavemancoverfv0.gif But seriously I would have no dought that a 5.56 could take one down, but if it where me I would want something with a little more knockdown power. |
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Posted: 7/29/2007 9:08:40 PM EDT
[#15]
The average weight of a cougar is 115 to 160 pounds.
5.56mm will do just fine. We're not talking about a huge animal that he'd be taking a shot at from long distance. |
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Posted: 7/29/2007 9:16:42 PM EDT
[#16]
I have used a 9mm pistol on cat hunts....of course a .223 will work.
Do your part, no problem. |
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Posted: 7/29/2007 9:28:06 PM EDT
[#17]
sure it will. if you put the hole in the right place, it'll certainly do the trick.
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Posted: 7/29/2007 9:34:05 PM EDT
[#18]
Back in Nevada, where lion hunting was VERY common, most of the cats were treed with dogs and most hunters used 22 rimfire magnums to kill them.
Cat's have small lungs and a CHEST HIT WITH A 22 MAG BLEEDS THEM INTO UNCONSCIOUSNESS PRETTY FAST. If the cat is treed, you can kill them with about anything. You shoot --- and the dogs don't let them come out of the tree. The cats don't fight unless they fall out or get knocked out. I have never seen one try to fight the dogs in 30 years unless it got knocked out of the tree or fell from a tall rock. NOW IF THAT HAPPENS YOU CAN EXPECT SOME VET BILLS, AND SOME DOCTOR BILLS FOR YOURSELF IF YOU ARE STUPID ENOUGH TO GET THAT CLOSE! So to answer you....YES the 223 will kill Mountain Lions just fine. I'd recomand a tough bullet so you don't harm the hide too much, and shoot carefully! And remember to sight in for a close range, so you don't have to worry about off-set too much. |
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Posted: 7/29/2007 9:36:08 PM EDT
[#19]
223 or 5.45 will work fine. |
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Posted: 7/29/2007 9:36:28 PM EDT
[#20]
Not long ago, an elderly man hiking with his wife killed a mountian lion with his pocket knife...
I have to agree with the "Not this shit again post" above. I have seen so many posts if this certian round will kill this certian animal, et. al. Any round is capable of killing any animal, provided placement is correct. I might have doubts about a .22 killing it before it ripped your face off, but I would be totally comfortable with 5.56. |
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Posted: 7/29/2007 9:44:58 PM EDT
[#21]
Well said. My buddy is an AVID cat hunter...dogs, horses, calling in sick from work every time it snows...I have gone with him and it is fun fun fun! Normally, he wont kill the animal, just track and tree it, but when he does, he uses a .22 also. I am not that "bad-ass".....38spl or 9mm is a minimum for this guy. Call me a puss, but IF it did come down from the tree for whatever reason, I am no longer worried about the cats hide....I would be worried about my own.  16 rounds of 9mm should cover my ass. ETA: Nevada boy here. Quite a few cats in this state....funny how you never see them. Of all the time I have spent in the wide open spaces of this great state, I have only ever seen 2 cats in the wild....not counting the use of tracking dogs. They are the masters of covert ops. 
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Posted: 7/29/2007 10:02:31 PM EDT
[#22]
Provided the use of dogs are legal where you are. Here in SD they just opened up the season on lions a couple years ago but use of dogs is prohibited. Friends uncle called one in with a predator call and didn't even realize it until they got ready to leave. They turned around and here this lion is walking away from them. They figured it had been watching them and lost interest. Also another friend that hunts alot and has gone after Grizzly's said he's more afraid of a lion than a Griz. When asked why, he said you can hear a grizzly coming. Lot of guys I know just use their deer/elk calibers on them. 30/30, 30/06, 300 ultra, 7mm mag or Ultra etc. And then they carry a sidearm also in case of close encounters.
Not saying that I wouldn't recommend using an AR, because 2 benifits is semi-auto and short manuverable rifle in close quarters. I would recommend though if your hunting in the mountains with a .223 to use a rangefinder since distance can be harder to judge across meadows, canyons etc. That's typically why I like to use a heavier bullet with longer range in the hills. |
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Posted: 8/3/2007 4:15:22 AM EDT
[#23]
Many treed cougars are killed with .22 magnums, a .223 with soft points or hollowpoints will do just fine.
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Posted: 8/3/2007 5:44:27 AM EDT
[#24]
Of course you know that animals that small (coyotes) do not cause much fragmentation, soft points can zip right through at times. I have had soft points zip right through. (rarely) Use a ballistic tip if you want all the energy delivered, and causing maximum fragmentation |
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Posted: 8/3/2007 5:54:25 AM EDT
[#25]
Pardon me while I tear this one up a bit. I have hunted preditors most my life. Now I am not claiming to be an expert by any means but there is just so much wrong with the above statement. I am not saying that you did not experience what you said you did but it has been my observation that many coyote hunters use 204 and 222, and a fair ammount use 22 Mag or the newer 17 calibers. I used 22Mag for years till I started useing my 222 and later a 223 and have had almost zero problems. In fact I have never had a coyote so much as move a few steps after hitting them with a 223. As for mountain lions I do not know. That is just my observations.
I do completely agree with this though. |
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Posted: 8/3/2007 6:20:38 AM EDT
[#26]
Ive seen them KILLEd witha 22lr pistol by TRAPPERS
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Posted: 8/3/2007 7:00:29 AM EDT
[#27]
My experience is similar. .223 blows the hell out of coyotes. It'll also work fine on lions (I don't personally hunt lions, but I've seen a few killed with .22LR, .22Mag, and .223, and none of them had more than a couple of holes in them). People drastically overestimate how tough critters are with respect to getting shot. You see this argument all the time about deer, coyotes, feral hogs, etc. There is a crowd that believes you need 30mm DU to kill a rabbit humanely and that a wounded cottontail might rip your arms off if you don't have a 50 round mag locked and loaded. While a smaller bullet isn't always the best tool for the job, if you know what you're doing, don't get panicky/buck-fever/whatever and can shoot accurately you can put damned near anything down with a 5.56/.223 (moose, grizzly, and elk being the only things I wouldn't recommend doing this with... lots of moose and elk get killed with .270/7mm which isn't all that much bigger, though). |
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Posted: 8/3/2007 9:28:00 AM EDT
[#28]
Killed a treed lion with my 16"AR in 17 Remington. Worked just fine
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Posted: 8/3/2007 9:57:00 AM EDT
[#29]
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Posted: 8/3/2007 10:50:07 AM EDT
[#30]
If the cat is 100 yards away, why would you want to shoot it? It isn't a danger at that distance.
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Posted: 8/3/2007 11:03:32 AM EDT
[#31]
If you ever own livestock you would know the answer to that one. |
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Posted: 8/3/2007 11:10:47 AM EDT
[#32]
One of my friends killed a lion with a 22 magnum pistol. So it is certainly possible to kill a lion with a .223.
On the other hand, that one was treed and I'd want more margin for error in a defensive situation. I'd definately want more penetration than what a 55 grain ballistic tip would give. I'd go for a heavier bullet and maybe the Partition, Bear Claw or something similar. I carry a 44 Mag pistol or rifle with 300 grain bullets in lion country. |
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Posted: 8/3/2007 11:40:15 AM EDT
[#33]
I have HEARD that mountain lions are easy to kill (many times) , no experience with the big cats but I say if that thing is close and moving fast your friend needs to be a good shot but I believe the 223 would do the trick. You get what you paid for with this advice
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Posted: 8/3/2007 12:59:30 PM EDT
[#34]
Maybe things are different in NY, but I have been predator hunting in Ohio for years and I'll have to disagree with you about .223 being the "bare minimum". As a matter of fact around where I hunt, 223 is actually fairly large. About 40% of predator hunters up here shoot rimfire (22 Mag, 17 HMR). Then the rest of us are using 17 Rem, 204 Ruger, and 223, and even some die hard 22 Hornet fans too. But when you're talking predator hunting alot of guys will use smaller calibers as to do as little damage to the pelt as possible. Now back on topic: If you are just trying to kill a standing mountain lion I think you would have no problems with the 5.56, as long as you do your part with good shot placement. Now in a defense situation, like stated before, you have 30 rounds. If you feel the cat is going to physically harm you, shoot it until it stops... Anything in North America is not going to hold up against multiple shots with a 5.56 to it's vital organs, plain and simple. He could carry a backup handgun in a holster on his belt, for insurance. Say a cat sneaks up and attacks, he loses use of one arm, unlikely situation, but whatever. Even then, I think he'd be fine with say a 9mm PD load. Once again, shot placement. When all else fails......reach for the hand grenades... |
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Posted: 8/3/2007 1:03:00 PM EDT
[#35]
I've taken 4 of these over-size kitties over the years. Two I killed with a single shot each from a 22 magnum HP, one was with a .45ACP Hydrashock, and one was with a 30-06 using a 180gr partition. The longest shot was with the 22mag at around 90yds, and the closest was at 30 feet with the .45 (Stupid cat came out of the brush next to my blind, and then stopped to spray a bush right under me!! I figured he was dissing me, so I shot him!). All dropped like a rock with one shot. Kitties aren't particularly hardy once you find them, they're just hard to hunt 'cause they're so damn spooky. I still see them pretty regularly where I hunt (McMullen County, South Texas), but I'm not mad at them anymore, so now I just snap a picture instead. One thing about kitties though, if one attacks you then you better fight like hell or shoot him with whatever you got, 'cause they don't go after you to protect their young or bluff to run you out of their territory. If they attack, they mean to eat you!
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Posted: 8/3/2007 3:03:48 PM EDT
[#36]
Sure it will. I hunt 300lb hogs with mine. But at 100yds, you shot had better be well placed or you may be chasing it a while.
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Posted: 8/3/2007 3:05:12 PM EDT
[#37]
Quoted:
You would have to achieve an eye shot into the brain to have a chance of a one shot kill. or you could pierce its heart.......just a thought |
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Posted: 8/3/2007 4:14:15 PM EDT
[#38]
There have been bears killed by .22 rimfires. Shot placement is what matters. But, I don't advocate it. I'm a card carrying member of the "Bring enough gun" club.
For instance. http://www.kait8.com/Global/story.asp?S=3357239&nav=0jshZyGE |
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Posted: 8/3/2007 6:52:05 PM EDT
[#39]
Lots of people hunt hogs with .22mag and .17hmr. |
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