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Posted: 10/15/2004 4:40:38 AM EST
it seems nobody likes to talk much about DPMS, and when they do its seldom good. is there something i'm missing or are they that bad? honest truth please.
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 4:44:17 AM EST

Originally Posted By edgraham:
it seems nobody likes to talk much about DPMS, and when they do its seldom good. is there something i'm missing or are they that bad? honest truth please.



I have a DPMS 11.5 upper on my Eagle Arms Coal Valley lower. Have never had a problem, failure or issue of any kind. They are fine in my book.
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 4:48:00 AM EST
they have sent out a lot of guns from the factory with problems
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 4:56:57 AM EST
I love all mine, no problems
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 5:07:06 AM EST
I have had lots of dealings with DPMS, no problems.
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 5:07:13 AM EST
Done Propperly Might Shoot
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 5:09:27 AM EST
I love all of my DPMS AR15's. They have tighter chambers than my other rifles, which, in the early stages of break-in leads to more FTE's. Other than that, I think they are one of the top-tier manufacturers (with RRA, BM, AL/EA and Colt).
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 5:11:15 AM EST

Originally Posted By repub18:
they have sent out a lot of guns from the factory with problems



can you be more specific as to types of problems and source where you got the info?
Not trying to flame, just want legit info.
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 5:34:00 AM EST
what kind of problems are common with their rifles? i'm getting their carbine with the 11.5" bbl and fixed 5.5" FH, and the bbl is chrome lined, does anyone have experince with this rifle?
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 5:57:15 AM EST


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally Posted By repub18:
they have sent out a lot of guns from the factory with problems
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




can you be more specific as to types of problems and source where you got the info?
Not trying to flame, just want legit info.



+1
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 6:02:23 AM EST

Originally Posted By hardcase:


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally Posted By repub18:
they have sent out a lot of guns from the factory with problems
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




can you be more specific as to types of problems and source where you got the info?
Not trying to flame, just want legit info.



+1




I had two DPMS rifles that spent more time at DPMS then they did with me

lets start with

1. out of spec bolt

2. tight chamber

3. out of spec barrel

4. out of spec bolt carrier

5. out of spec extractor on newly replaced bolt


need any more?
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 6:18:45 AM EST
I have a 16" flattop, and had some FTE after the rifle heated up. Contacted DPMS, sent the upper, and had it back within two weeks. Chamber was tight. Service and communication was excellent. No cost repair, and I was not the original owner. Rifle works great now.
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 6:37:02 AM EST


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally Posted By hardcase:


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally Posted By repub18:
they have sent out a lot of guns from the factory with problems
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

can you be more specific as to types of problems and source where you got the info?
Not trying to flame, just want legit info.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




+1
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I had two DPMS rifles that spent more time at DPMS then they did with me

lets start with

1. out of spec bolt

2. tight chamber

3. out of spec barrel

4. out of spec bolt carrier

5. out of spec extractor on newly replaced bolt

need any more?



Not you, dpmmn. I want to know Ed's reason for posting that.

dpmmn, aren't you the guy who's always bashing DPMS anyway?
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 6:42:17 AM EST
hardcase when you said Ed were refering to me edgraham
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 7:03:26 AM EST
I have never seen a DPMS carbine that didnt have issues. FTF, FTE, or short stroking.
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 7:10:01 AM EST
i'm not being an a**hole, but how many have you seen and what seemed to cause the problems and how long ago? thanks
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 7:19:18 AM EST
I cant say much for their complete rifles, dut to fact I have no experience. I use their forged lowers exclusively for builds. Great finish and always go together without issues. No goofy high shelf of sear blocks either.
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 7:30:27 AM EST
The only DPMS stuff I trust is from CMMG.
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 7:37:20 AM EST
whats differnt about the DPMS stuff from CMMG than just from DPMS, I'm not familiar with them(CMMG)
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 7:38:21 AM EST
DPMS did have some issues - SEVERAL years back. I have had several (all forged lowers). Those that I have personally owned (meaning not those that someone else owned several years ago, and I thought that I heard correctly, but I might just be a bashing idiot cus its not a colt) would eat any thing I fed them, no FTF FTE ever, and to boot, my 16" Bull was more accurate than my 24" HP purpose built rifle.

They are today, as good as Colt. BM, AL, RRA inn MY opinion.

IO1
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 7:41:43 AM EST

Originally Posted By IndOperator1:
DPMS did have some issues - SEVERAL years back. I have had several (all forged lowers). Those that I have personally owned (meaning not those that someone else owned several years ago, and I thought that I heard correctly, but I might just be a bashing idiot cus its not a colthing
They are today, as good as Colt. BM, AL, RRA inn MY opinion.

IO1hr



So alot of the problems people had were from earlier rifles and alot of that stuff has been worked out. is that prety much true?
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 7:47:21 AM EST

Originally Posted By edgraham:
whats differnt about the DPMS stuff from CMMG than just from DPMS, I'm not familiar with them(CMMG)



CMMG are one of the board dealers here and have a very good reputation. It's like another set of eyes on stuff, before it goes out the door to you. Like a security blanket if you will.
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 7:48:49 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/15/2004 7:53:25 AM EST by dpmmn]

Originally Posted By hardcase

dpmmn, aren't you the guy who's always bashing DPMS anyway?




I don't think that I go out of my way to bash them, I do have one Good DPMS rifle,
my 24" stainless barreled praire dog rifle has never had a problem.

But when you buy a rifle in June, send it back to them (in my case I drove it to the factory since I live 40 miles fromthem) and have to keep bringing it back after they tell you it is fixed, gets a little old.

The first twelve weeks I owned my 20" A3 DPMS it spent 10 weeks at their factory getting repaired,
The last time I brought it up there they replaced the barrel, they informed me that the barrel was out of spec............This is after they kept accusing me of using out of spec ammo, steel magazines....it just gets old.

If DPMS could make a reliable product, I would buy it in a heartbeat!!! I am a firm believer in supporting the local economy. Untill then I will support the econmoies of Geneseo, IL and Hartford, CT

Edited to add:
It seems to be with everyone I know that owns a DPMS rifle, I have seen it first hand many times.
I just think it is kind of sad when you pay good hard earned money for a product that don't put out like it should. Another thing that bothers me is that there are Police Departments out there that have these rifles in their squads, what happens if they get into a firefight and they get a shell casing stuck in a bullshit tight chamber?
At the time I would say DPMS is only better than Hesse/Vulcan arms because they have a warranty
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 8:28:43 AM EST

Originally Posted By dpmmn:
Another thing that bothers me is that there are Police Departments out there that have these rifles in their squads, what happens if they get into a firefight and they get a shell casing stuck in a bullshit tight chamber?
At the time I would say DPMS is only better than Hesse/Vulcan arms because they have a warranty



If a Police Department is using a rifle "in the field" that hasn't been properly broken in, then I don't know what to tell you. My DPMS rifles (I can show you pics of all 12 of them if you don't believe me) have NEVER had a FTE after being broken in (after about the 100 round mark)... and I even use WOLF (!!!) ammo in some of them!

DPMS is just as good as BM, RRA, AL/EA, and Colt and I will continue to buy their products.
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 9:04:24 AM EST

Originally Posted By edgraham:

Originally Posted By IndOperator1:
DPMS did have some issues - SEVERAL years back. I have had several (all forged lowers). Those that I have personally owned (meaning not those that someone else owned several years ago, and I thought that I heard correctly, but I might just be a bashing idiot cus its not a colt) would eat any thing I fed them, no FTF FTE ever, and to boot, my 16" Bull was more accurate than my 24" HP purpose built rifle.

They are today, as good as Colt. BM, AL, RRA inn MY opinion.

IO1




So alot of the problems people had were from earlier rifles and alot of that stuff has been worked out. is that prety much true?



Everybody gets a bad batch, or goes through some pains in production. Things have been worked out well IMO. I spent a LOT of time doing research on DPMS prior to buying one. I spoke with several LE's who use them, many builders who use their parts, and DPMS themselves. I asked some hard questions particularly of DPMS, and got fair answers. I have trusted my life to a few DPMS rifles, and IOM, they are on the list as stated previously.

I look at it like the man who spent his life building walls, did they call him the wall builder...no, but you fuck one goat


IO1
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 9:46:40 AM EST

Originally Posted By IndOperator1:

Originally Posted By edgraham:

Originally Posted By IndOperator1:
DPMS did have some issues - SEVERAL years back. I have had several (all forged lowers). Those that I have personally owned (meaning not those that someone else owned several years ago, and I thought that I heard correctly, but I might just be a bashing idiot cus its not a colthing
They are today, as good as Colt. BM, AL, RRA inn MY opinion.

IO1hr



So alot of the problems people had were from earlier rifles and alot of that stuff has been worked out. is that prety much true?



Everybody gets a bad batch, or goes through some pains in production. Things have been worked out well IMO. I spent a LOT of time doing research on DPMS prior to buying one. I spoke with several LE's who use them, many builders who use their parts, and DPMS themselves. I asked some hard questions particularly of DPMS, and got fair answers. I have trusted my life to a few DPMS rifles, and IOM, they are on the list as stated previously.

I look at it like the man who spent his life building walls, did they call him the wall builder...no, but you fuck one goathock.gif


IO1hr



thanks for the info, i have had a hard time sorting out opinion from fact and that helps
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 10:03:10 AM EST
My two seem to work fine. But maybe I don't push them hard like some here might.

Only a couple FTF with a whole weekend worth of Wolf ammo and no cleaning.
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 12:30:53 PM EST
I am wondering, are their TiN parts okay, if not the complete gun? Thanks.
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 12:36:36 PM EST

Originally Posted By M4arc:
The only DPMS stuff I trust is from CMMG.



+1

CMMG are the only guys who have chrome-lined barrels made by DPMS. They build them specially for CMMG. If DPMS screws up on something CMMG will send it back to them and you'll get a new one. I've built my M4gery on DPMS stuff and I'm damn happy with it, although I've only begun to shoot it.

For me, the pertinent questions for a combat style AR are 1. is the gun built to spec, no sear blocks, no raised areas in the receiver, no cast parts, or other such bullshit, and 2. does it have a chrome lined barrel.




Link Posted: 10/15/2004 12:48:43 PM EST

Originally Posted By -Duke-Nukem-:

CMMG are the only guys who have chrome-lined barrels made by DPMS. They build them specially for CMMG. If DPMS screws up on something CMMG will send it back to them and you'll get a new one.



Bull. Anyone can get chrome lined from DPMS as an option. Cmmg just orders them all that way. And I've not heard of anyone having return problems with them.

Link Posted: 10/15/2004 1:03:58 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/16/2004 1:48:16 AM EST by shamayim]
Well, I've posted my experience w/ DPMS before, but let me do it one more time.

Bought a complete, new, DPMS lower not quite two years ago. Right out of the wrap, a gouged buttstock, on the left side. OK, I was going to put an A1 type stock on anyway. Mounted a complete upper assy. Over sized paddle on the bolt hold open gouges the side of the upper, and when I put an empty mag in to test function, the hold open doesn't work. Pull the piece and find that it's essentially unfinished in the bottom where the piece sits in the channel, and the channel is full of garbage. Replace the piece with a GI surp Colt hold open, after cleaning out the crap, then look at the mag retainer button. Completely out of apec visually. Works OK, but I can't stand the sight of it so I put a standard replacement piece on it .

Then realize that the cutout in the front lugs is off center, so that the upper is tilted about 20 thousanths to the left when it's mounted. Not enough to effect function. Jus enough to piss me off.

Currently have a DPMS upper on it, of the C7 type. The channel for the cocking T of the upper is undersized enough that none of my Colt units will go in. OK, I've got an aftermarket unit that's a couple of thousanths narrower than the Colt pieces and it works in the channel---and what the hell; I only paid $70 for the upper, used, and it looks new.

Will I ever put another penny in DPMS's coffers? What do you think?

Link Posted: 10/15/2004 3:08:51 PM EST

Originally Posted By booniehat223:

Originally Posted By -Duke-Nukem-:

CMMG are the only guys who have chrome-lined barrels made by DPMS. They build them specially for CMMG. If DPMS screws up on something CMMG will send it back to them and you'll get a new one.



Bull. Anyone can get chrome lined from DPMS as an option. Cmmg just orders them all that way. And I've not heard of anyone having return problems with them.




I was not aware that DPMS was offering chrome lining to everyone. I'm glad they are, that's cool. I haven't heard of any DPMS-specific return problems either, but I've had problems with a few various things (accessories mostly) and CMMG has always taken care of me. That was the point of my second line.
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 3:31:26 PM EST
I have several DPMS uppers and lowers, including a brand new AP4 (M4) complete rifle. My 1st range trip was last week with it, and it functioned perfectly during the break-in and subsequent firing. 100 rounds total, not a single FT, FTE, or problem. Fit and finish is excellent. Maybe I have just gotten lucky, but I doubt it based on my sampling size.



Link Posted: 10/15/2004 4:12:40 PM EST
Here's what I have heard commented about DPMS. It would seem that DPMS equipment going to maufacturers is of higher quality (better precision/toerences) than that going to the general public through a dealer. I have a DPMS M4 upper and it runs great and have lowers they provided to other manufactueres that are fine as well.

I didn't see this mentioned in the thread so it would be intersting to see if those with issue bought their uppers or lowers through a dealr or a manufacturer.
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 4:36:13 PM EST
I buy my stuff directly through DPMSinc.com
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 4:59:50 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/15/2004 5:00:16 PM EST by DM1975]

Originally Posted By -Duke-Nukem-:

Originally Posted By booniehat223:

Originally Posted By -Duke-Nukem-:

CMMG are the only guys who have chrome-lined barrels made by DPMS. They build them specially for CMMG. If DPMS screws up on something CMMG will send it back to them and you'll get a new one.



Bull. Anyone can get chrome lined from DPMS as an option. Cmmg just orders them all that way. And I've not heard of anyone having return problems with them.




I was not aware that DPMS was offering chrome lining to everyone. I'm glad they are, that's cool. I haven't heard of any DPMS-specific return problems either, but I've had problems with a few various things (accessories mostly) and CMMG has always taken care of me. That was the point of my second line.



I emailed DPMS about chrome lining their barrels, here is a copy of the email I received from them.


Email received from DPMS:

Yes we can get the barrels chrome lined for an additional $20.00.
We don't have a production code for this, it is something that you will need to request when ordering the barrel
If you have any questions feel free to contact us,

Thank you,
Shane C
DPMS Sales

Link Posted: 10/15/2004 7:29:16 PM EST
All I know is I was extremely impressed with what I had to read about the DPMS 308 Panther in the April 2004 American Rifleman. The thing was able to fire 3 different brands of match ammo inside of 1" @ 100yds. The NRA claimed no malfunctuions.

I called DPMS to see if they had the rifle avaILABLE now during the AWB sunset with some evil features ( at least a flash hider, and maybe a collaspsable stock) They said their engineers are working on it. That's too bad, because by the time they get it drawn up and into production with the goodies, the next AWB will be in their face!
Who wants to buy a big ole AR style rifle now with that Plain Jane barrel of the Clinton Years!!
Not I.
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 7:36:17 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/15/2004 7:36:50 PM EST by HardShell]

Originally Posted By SOF1:
I have had lots of dealings with DPMS, no problems.



+1

Some of the favorite ARs I own are DPMSs. No problems of any kind for me.
Link Posted: 10/16/2004 4:13:51 AM EST
My two DPMS carbines run just fine, no problems at all.
Link Posted: 10/16/2004 5:06:16 AM EST
basicly it's just like everything else you buy, you could get a lemon our not. this is my first AR, what are the things I should give a real good look at when I get it that would let me know of potential problem, and I thank all of you for sharing your thoughts and experinces.
Link Posted: 10/16/2004 5:22:52 AM EST
I've had some quality issues with DPMS parts that I bought but I never owned a complete DPMS rifle. I don't think I would ever buy one either. I'm just not impressed with anything they offer.
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