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Page AR-15 » Optics, Mounts, and Sights
AR Sponsor: bravocompany
Posted: 1/6/2003 12:40:33 PM EDT
looking for a scope for general plinking but will be used mostly in the matches. shots go out to 300yds.  got bushnells hologram with standard recticle on my pistol ar's and like em very much so. how will the holo/eotech do out to 300yds? thinking about leopold's cqb or an aimpoint. any other options?
Link Posted: 1/6/2003 1:45:41 PM EDT
If you have the EoTech and want something more, the Aimpoint wont do much for you. They are the same style optics and though they are quite different, the primary differences is not really in what they can do to enhance your shooting.

Think [i]ACOG[/i], [b]ACOG[/b], [i][b]ACOG[/i][/b]! With practice, they will be very nearly as fast as Aimpoints and EoTechs but will give you the advantage of magnification for longer shots.

Skip the Leupy CQ/T, very nearly everyone who has ever seen or used it hates the thing and for good reason. The BAC feature on the ACOGs sort of make the versatility of a variable power somewhat obsolete in regaurds to the type of shooting we are discussing.
Link Posted: 1/6/2003 5:20:20 PM EDT
the 3 best choices i see every month as a competitor and in no particular order are low range varible scopes like a CQ/T or SN-4 like i chose that start with 1x or close,another would be a low range fixed or varible traditional type scope with a doc dot sight mounted on top of the front scope ring.I dont include the mounts that attach a round small dot off the side at a angle which forces you to cant the rifle to operate.The third choice in force out there are the low ranged fixed acogs.As a AR enthusiast and not a competitor setting up a CQB rifle a no magnification dot like EOTech or aimpoint that give you much more peripherial vision because there is practically no need for any eye relief gets the nod.
Link Posted: 1/6/2003 9:07:23 PM EDT
next question would be is what is the difference between all the aimpoint scope's? 3000, 7000, compc
Link Posted: 1/7/2003 8:17:52 AM EDT
My first thought was "ACOG w/BAC" then I thought "<300" and thought "Aimpoint."  Have you tried the EOTech at 300?  It should work OK too.

IIRC Aimpoint 3000 is old battery/diode tech.  You want one of the ones with the CET diode.  M2 is mil-spec.  ML2 is same thing w/o extra dim night-vision settings.  CompC is an ML2 w/o the extra ruggedizing.  I'd suggest ML2 or CompC, depending on how hard you are on them.
Link Posted: 1/7/2003 8:57:10 AM EDT
I shoot the Tactical Matches, and to a lesser extent the three-gun.  I've tried lots of optics, from a Tasco Propoint to a US Optics SN-4, and I'll take the Aimpoint over anything out there.  It's sufficiently accurate out to 300yrds, and there is nothing faster close in.  If your shooting the tactical matches, install a good muzzle brake on your AR so that you can take advantage of the speed of your optics.

Good Luck[BEER]
Link Posted: 1/7/2003 3:49:12 PM EDT
Nothing beats a dot for speed i also agree and at tactical matches thats all i will ever use on my MP-5 ,but with a AR at 3 gun and practical rifle match with targets out to 300yds i had a problem with the 3moa dot let alone the new 4 moa dot covering the hole target with my aimpoint so i switched to a EOTech at 1 moa and that was a lot better,however if you have not so perfect eye sight being able to see small far out targets much closer up is always going to be beneficial.Something to consider.
Link Posted: 1/8/2003 3:45:27 PM EDT
The master-blasters that win the big 3 Gun matches typically use low power variable Leupolds (like 1.5-5, etc.)  They evaulate the course, pick their magnification, and hose away.  And, the magnification can be changed very quickly on the run.

From shooting some 3 gun matches with my compact ACOG, here are some observerations:
1.)  Hold over is very hard to do accurately with a triangle or dot.  This is particularly importand to consider, as most 3 gun rifle matches have targets at various distances.
2.)  Fast target acquisition is key.  Low magnification is great for this, as most of the targets are at least 40 yards away.  A red dot may be fast up close, but I think they slow down for long range shots.

If I was going to redo my setup, and optimize it for 3 Gun, I would do this:  20" Flat top AR with a very effective comp (not a flash hider) and an ACOG TA01NSN.  The TA01NSN has BDC built in, so it works very quickly**.  The 4x is also pretty fast.  But, I've already got a setup I use that works great for the majority of my competitions (close range CQB type stuff.)

**I know the NSN sight is optimized for a 14.5" barrel, but it is close enough for a 20" barrel to work good.  My step Brother (finished 32nd at the 2002 World 3 Gun) uses the TA01NSN on his 20" AR.

Link Posted: 1/8/2003 3:58:38 PM EDT
ACOG TA31 series or the TA11 hands down.  Nothing beats the scope for 3 gun or CQB to 300+ yard shooting.  
Link Posted: 1/9/2003 11:23:41 AM EDT
Not to hijack your thread, but where in PA do you shoot 3 gun matches?  I have always been interested in trying this, but can’t seem to find anyone with any information or locations in PA.  
Link Posted: 1/9/2003 12:47:07 PM EDT
You might want to check out Brian Eno's website:


From what I've read, the moderators and posters on this site are the guys that are competing in, and winning, the current 3-gun matches.  LOTS of great info on competing with AR's.

Here's an excellent discussion about your question, [i]"Sighting system for 3-gun tactical"[/i]:


Quotes from that thread:

Although not SOF/WC3gun legal, the low-powered variable is the ultimate all-around sight.  I'll take a Leupold 1.5-5x over a CQ/T or ACOG any day as an all-around sight .  The CQ/T may be better for the hoser stuff as it's a true 1X but at 200+  (or even over 100), the 1.5-5X is going to stomp it.  The ACOG is good for farther stuff but has too much magnification for close hoser stages.  The Holosight is good but as you said starts to fall short at longer ranges.

What we need is a variable that goes from a true 1X all the way to 6X.  It needs to be tough and have lots of eye relief.  It has to have 1/2  MOA clicks.   It has to have a huge field of view. It should have different reticles available for all the pickie shooters who like different stuff.  Oh, it has to be reasonably priced as well!  
View Quote

The TA11 is an excellent sight, especially past 300 yards.  Has one ever won the open rifle at the nationals?  I don't think so.  [u]2002 was won by a Leupold 1.5-5X and 2001 was won by a Leupold 3-9X.[/u]
View Quote

Link Posted: 1/9/2003 7:39:51 PM EDT
it's near erie,pa. it's all for fun, no prizes. trying to get one started at my friends club, alot of people at his club got all these ideas, but no one wants to help.  
Page AR-15 » Optics, Mounts, and Sights
AR Sponsor: bravocompany
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