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Posted: 10/3/2004 6:01:46 PM EST
When the 458 SOCOM came out, we looked at using the 45-38 caliber sabots commercially available, but found they were really 451 and not 458 .... bummer, they don't work well.

Well, we now are looking at making a sabot for the 458 caliber and specifically the 458 SOCOM in the AR-15. But to do so, it must meet some criteria:

- caliber. The 458 barrels have a relatively slow twist. This rules out a lot of heavier bullets of smaller diameter, as they would not be properly stabilized. The means a light version of a smaller diameter bullet

- length. In order to get the maximum performance, the new smaller bullet must fit in the sabot, the sabot fit in the case, and the loaded round still fit in the AR magazine. Again, this means a lighter version of the smaller bullet.

In looking at what is possible, what would work and what would be interesting, we came up with the following idea

A sabot for 458 to 308 caliber, specifically made to take the 110 gr VMax bullet. This would end up with the ideal seating depth and still get the proper loaded length. Speculation puts the muzzle velocity of the 110 gr out of the 16" AR barrel at 2500-3000 fps and hopefully closer to the top end.

Question - would anybody be interested in such a critter (sabot). They would be the two piece (halves) design as found in muzzle loading, made of cheap plastic and if enough are made, relatively cheap. That means at 100 pieces prototyping, they are about $1 each, but at 5000 pieces they are more like $0.30 each.

You could load other cartridges with it (45-70, 458 Win Mag, 450 Marlin, etc) and use other bullets in a pinch.

So, what are your thoughts?

M
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 2:45:21 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/4/2004 2:45:53 AM EST by 444slayer]
I have sworn off sabots because I never could get any acceptable accuracy with them in .30-06, or .50BMG. Maybe I didn't know what I was doing, but I had projectile runout as low as .001", and I still couldn't get better than a 6" group at 50 yards.. So I guess for me , to would take a proven recipe for accuracy to restore my faith in them. Again, I am certainly no expert. I don't even remember the loads I was using when I tried them.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 3:36:38 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/4/2004 10:06:24 AM EST by jcon]
Marty, I have been wondering about the use of sabots for some time now. Specifically, I have wondered if a .50 caliber sabot intended for use in a .50 cal muzzeloader would work in the .50 Beowulf cartridge. This would allow use of other projectiles if .50's were in short supply. It seems you might be able to use the various .451 and .430 caliber pistol bullets to some effect in the larger cartridge. These shorter and relatively light bullets might be interesting to shoot.



John
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 6:35:35 PM EST
One of the tricks to getting the sabots to work is ensuring that the new "guest" bullet is properly stabilized in the "host" barrel, so new bullet and old twist must match. There is such a thing as TOO MUCH twist, as Tony at Tromix found with the 44 Mag and 50AE. He had to go to what seemed like very slow twist to get proper accuracy.

As far as accuracy potential goes, the US military SLAP round in the 50BMG works really well, but the SLAP for the 30 cal was discontinued due to the fact that the projectiles became unstable IN THE BORE and some tried to exit prior to the muzzle .... so you are not alone in your challenge. The 110 VMax is the lightest of 30s and should fare well in the slower 458 barrels.

Having the dies made is not too expensive and once made can be used for crank out many of these. I can have a batch run and see what they will do, if promising, I can have a large order made and then maybe offer these as a factory load ....
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 7:10:51 PM EST
Schweet.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 8:44:35 PM EST

Originally Posted By NoPlay:
Schweet.

Link Posted: 10/4/2004 9:26:11 PM EST

Originally Posted By MartytW:
One of the tricks to getting the sabots to work is ensuring that the new "guest" bullet is properly stabilized in the "host" barrel, so new bullet and old twist must match. There is such a thing as TOO MUCH twist, as Tony at Tromix found with the 44 Mag and 50AE. He had to go to what seemed like very slow twist to get proper accuracy.

As far as accuracy potential goes, the US military SLAP round in the 50BMG works really well, but the SLAP for the 30 cal was discontinued due to the fact that the projectiles became unstable IN THE BORE and some tried to exit prior to the muzzle .... so you are not alone in your challenge. The 110 VMax is the lightest of 30s and should fare well in the slower 458 barrels.

Having the dies made is not too expensive and once made can be used for crank out many of these. I can have a batch run and see what they will do, if promising, I can have a large order made and then maybe offer these as a factory load ....



Marty,

I like how your always thinking out of the box! I sure wish AA would do that since it would be nice to get something like this for the Wulf....By the way I have become addicted to the Large Cal AR platforms....

Bigant
Link Posted: 10/5/2004 5:58:02 AM EST
Sounds like a good idea, but for the life of me, I can't think of a use for it. I kinda like that fat bullet that hits real hard. If it's for speed in an AR platform, there's plenty of other cartridges that fill the bill/

I'm in the same club as 444slayer... never had much luck with sabots in any form- except the muzzle loader types. I tried them in .30-06 for awhile, but found the accuracy lacking.
Link Posted: 10/5/2004 11:37:47 PM EST
Tagged.
Link Posted: 10/5/2004 11:52:40 PM EST
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