please can someone help me ?

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - please can someone help me ?

Posted: 9/23/2005 2:30:23 AM EDT

Hi gentlemen , i have just purchased and received my Norinco m4 commando (not sure if this is the right name). Problem is that the reciver is version A1 and i would like to get the upper and lower receiver version A2 with handle on it. How can i get one of these ? I am under the impression that it is illegal to have these in the USA. I live in South Africa and cannot find one here.

Please can someone advise me on the procedure involved in order to get one or maybe who i can contact. I heard as well that one can legally get one from israel but who would i contact ?

Thanks so much guys.
Craig
[email protected]

Posted: 9/23/2005 2:51:39 AM EDT

[#1]

The A2 style is not illegal in the states at all.
I don't know about shipping overseas but check out the industry section of the forums you can find hundreds of upper dealers.

Posted: 9/23/2005 3:19:49 AM EDT

[#2]

Craig...show us a pic. It's not often we get to see a Norinco AR clone.

What has to happen is a DS-83 form. This is filled out by the End User, Consignee and National Regulating Authority on your end. It basically declares you will not resell the items onwards. You would eb the End User, the Consignee is the Importer and the SANP would be your regulating authority. The last is simpler since you work for them.

You then need to find a Exporter to submit the form ont he US end. Most Exporters will charge you a percntage or a minimum fee of several hundred dollars. It doesn't make sense to export ONE item since you can write down a list of gear on the DS-83 to be processed as one application. It especially makes no sense to order a A2 upper, especially stripped since the paperwork will cost several times more than the item.

I recommend getting a bunch of folk together and putting all your orders together on one DS-83 and getting a US Exporter to run it through system.

Why A2 upper? They're....obsolescent.

Simon

Posted: 9/23/2005 3:21:28 AM EDT

[#3]

It usually helps if you have a valid End User cert endorsed by the Regulating Authority too.....

Posted: 9/23/2005 3:28:20 AM EDT

[#4]

Welcome to the board!

I don't exactly know the specific provisions of law applicable to your query ... maybe you should also try to post this in the Legal Section of the forums.

As mentioned, the A2 upper is readily available in the US and can legally be purchased THERE.
However, I think I read somewhere that generally, it is illegal to ship gun parts out of the United States.

So I think that is going to be the problem. Unless you know of a licensed importer /gun shop there who can legally import the parts for you.

As I said, I may be wrong ....

Welcome again.

Posted: 9/23/2005 4:51:42 AM EDT

[#5]

Thanks for the reply gents , well you see i also need the lower receiver as apparantly the upper from a Colt will not fit onto a Norinco lower. Thanks for the welcome.

http://img215.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc009709io.jpg

Posted: 9/23/2005 5:34:42 AM EDT

[#6]

Pic was a red X, fixed it for ya........nice carbine, leave it as is!

Oh well, pic is still a red X, hot link maybe?

img215.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc009709io.jpg

Posted: 9/23/2005 5:43:32 AM EDT

[#7]

One of the big fads now over here are the “retro” AR’s. There are guys that would love to have your set up, again leave it as is, maybe add the CAR flashhider.

Here is my carbine I recently completed.

Posted: 9/23/2005 5:54:20 AM EDT

[#8]

Sweet carbine! I would leave it as is. An A2 upper is not going to give you any advantage.

Posted: 9/23/2005 6:05:03 AM EDT

[#9]

Wow really? Guys thanks so much. Would love you guys to come and see the weapons we have in the cops here. Really have some nice stuff.
Thanks again guys.
Regards
Craig
South African Police service.

Posted: 9/23/2005 6:07:39 AM EDT

[#10]

Alright Meneer...I think if you are going to buy and upper and a lower, my suggestion would be to SELL the Norinco and buy an all up gun out of the States if you are so inclined. Please note the import paperwork is the same whether you move a lower or a whole gun.

Secondly, I would definitely load it up with all the goodness I could afford to warrant the Export fees.

OTH it looks like a fun enough shooter and they issue you with a R5 for work anyway.

Simon

Posted: 9/23/2005 6:41:58 AM EDT

[#11]

Hi Simon, yeah they issue us with R5 assault rifles (automatic) but i have my own personal one - semi auto. I just really love this m16, its great although i have not shot it yet , going tomorrow.
Are you an Ex-South african ?

Thanks again.

Posted: 9/23/2005 7:18:32 AM EDT

[#12]

No.....I'm just teasing you. I have a couple of friends from SA and their accents slip a little when they're drunk.

Well, just remember, that's a Chinese knock-off. I've not shot the Commando with the shorty barrel, just their standard M16 20" clone. Now...if you decide you have incurable Black Rifle Disease, let us know. Maybe someone here can help you scratch that itch a little more.

If you decide to try and import ARs from the US, you'll probably find it tedious more than anything else thanks to ITAR controls.

Posted: 9/23/2005 7:25:36 AM EDT

[#13]

He he he , yes i hear you. Ok thanks for the input. Maybe the US will invade here one day , i can wait for it. :)

Posted: 9/23/2005 7:34:59 AM EDT

[#14]

I cannot find much wrong here......

But you say it doesnt fit?

I am sure our resident armorers/SME's will fix you up

Welcome aboard, SAP!

Posted: 9/23/2005 8:11:59 AM EDT

[#15]

img.photobucket.com/albums/v400/redfisher19/dsc009709io640x480.jpg

Well the scope mount is backwards but other than that...

Posted: 9/23/2005 8:15:24 AM EDT

[#16]

Quoted:
The A2 style is not illegal in the states at all.
I

Guys He's not saying the A2 is illegal - he's saying the NORINCO M4 rifles are illegal.

In that respect he is correct. We havn't allowed importation of Norinco Military style rifle in quite some time thanks to George H Bush.

Craig,
If you're not going flattop keep your rifle the way it is. The A1 upper is much better for a carbine (a 0 to 200/300M weapon) than the overly complicated A2 sights.

I mean are you really going to be shooting at a target 800M away with a 5.56 carbine?

Most of my carbines are flattops for the flexibility. When I do build fixed carry handled upper carbines I use A1/C7 type uppers.

Posted: 9/23/2005 9:00:38 AM EDT

[#17]

Ok i get it thanks. But the scope mount is definitely (i think) mounted correctly otherwise its skew the other way around , doesnt seat properly.
Ok then , i am awaiting a trip by you guys to South africa.

:)
Have an excellent weekend

Posted: 9/23/2005 1:51:03 PM EDT

[#18]

Quoted:
But the scope mount is definitely (i think) mounted correctly otherwise its skew the other way around , doesnt seat properly.

It is DEFINITELY backwards.

Posted: 9/23/2005 2:04:06 PM EDT

[#19]

Quoted:
Quoted:
But the scope mount is definitely (i think) mounted correctly otherwise its skew the other way around , doesnt seat properly.

It is DEFINITELY backwards.

I think so too. The photograph shows the mount having a slant (the forward part being closer to the bore line than the rear part). The mount should be parallel to the bore.

I see it as one of 3 problems.
1) It's an optical illusion and the mount is level, just a strange photgraphic angle.
2) You bought a cheap $15(US) Chineese produced mount
3) The milling work on the handle is not up to spec (again due to it being a Chi-Com knockoff).

Posted: 9/23/2005 2:39:13 PM EDT

[#20]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
But the scope mount is definitely (i think) mounted correctly otherwise its skew the other way around , doesnt seat properly.

It is DEFINITELY backwards.

I think so too. The photograph shows the mount having a slant (the forward part being closer to the bore line than the rear part). The mount should be parallel to the bore.

I see it as one of 3 problems.
1) It's an optical illusion and the mount is level, just a strange photgraphic angle.
2) You bought a cheap $15(US) Chineese produced mount
3) The milling work on the handle is not up to spec (again due to it being a Chi-Com knockoff).

Forest, note the milled line on the side of the scope mount. It should parallel the top of the carry handle, but does not in the photo.