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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - gas ring problem?Problem solved!! (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 3/3/2012 6:32:47 PM EDT
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900 rounds i had to change the gas rings.Well within 200 rounds i got the same problem,so what gives!
Oh its a stag lower with a psa standard rifle kit. http://i40.tinypic.com/1ifmn5.jpg here is the first set. http://i43.tinypic.com/szfx9k.jpg http://i44.tinypic.com/optunm.jpg http://i41.tinypic.com/33ucpz5.jpg here is what they look like now by the way im using p-mags and an upgraded extractor spring any help whould be appreciated |
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Curious what kind of ammo? Almost looks like they were burnt.
I would order a couple of sets of Colt rings from Brownells. Make sure they are installed correctly and if they did the same thing maybe try the bolt in a different carrier to see what happens. I see I am not the only one with one of the bolts without a smooth radius on the rear piece. I will put it in a rifle and shoot a couple hundred rounds through it tomorrow and see what happens to the rings on it. |
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Take a look inside of the bolt carrier where the bolt goes. You should see hard chrome lining in this area. About half way back (by the two exhaust holes) you should see a shelf where the inside of the bolt carrier gets tighter, this is the area where the gas rings seal against the walls of the carrier. Look for burrs of metal at the two exhaust port holes, and also look for roughness or rings in the chrome where it would be roughly machined. Put new gas rings onto the bolt, reassembly the bolt carrier assembly, then slowly manually cycle the bolt in and out of the bolt carrier, you should see the gas rings pass by the two exhaust port holes in the bolt carrier, and when the gas rings pass by the exhaust port holes you should not feel anything catching (if you find the rings are catching on something, then this is usually a burr of metal or bad machining).
CY6 Greg Sullivan "Sully" SLR15 Rifles TheDefensiveEdge.com (763) 712-0123 |
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well turns out i had an extra set of rings,so i put them on and cleaned the bcg real
good.I then did what Sully recomended and there is nothing in the bcg catching or any burrs or anything like that,so could it be the rings are just burning up? btw i got the rings from midway,they were bushmaster rings.I also did'nt notice anything wrong with the original rings till about 700 rounds or so. |
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Is the inside of your bolt carrier chrome lined? When putting the new gas rings onto the bolt, are you deforming them to make them out of round by trying to put them onto the bolt from the side?
CY6 Greg Sullivan "Sully" SLR15 Rifles TheDefensiveEdge.com (763) 712-0123 |
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here's a few pics with the new rings installed
http://i41.tinypic.com/297dp5.jpg http://i40.tinypic.com/10zsg9k.jpg http://i40.tinypic.com/288w6eo.jpg I staggered the rings when i put them on like last time. Maybe i just got some bad rings,don't know.I'll try to get out this weekend and try them out. |
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FYI:
Rings look installed correctly, but let me state this. Rings are stamp cut,with one side/edge rounded,and the other side flat/sharp. Always loads rings so the sharp edges are facing the back of the bolt. Putting the rings sharp side rearward will help with sealing, and even allow the ring to cut carbon better on the closing stroke. If you install them with sharp against sharp edges, could cause some problems with the rings not alone to self adjust each other, and could have been the reason that the rings wore out so quickly. Of if installed round side to the back of the bolt, can get a bit more blow by as well, causing the rings to burn up faster as well. |
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FYI: Rings look installed correctly, but let me state this. Rings are stamp cut,with one side/edge rounded,and the other side flat/sharp. Always loads rings so the sharp edges are facing the back of the bolt. Putting the rings sharp side rearward will help with sealing, and even allow the ring to cut carbon better on the closing stroke. If you install them with sharp against sharp edges, could cause some problems with the rings not alone to self adjust each other, and could have been the reason that the rings wore out so quickly. Of if installed round side to the back of the bolt, can get a bit more blow by as well, causing the rings to burn up faster as well. I put the two rear ones as you say, but the front one the other way. This way no sharp edges touch each other, and the front one also scrapes , and keeps out carbon from the group of three. |
well,took it out yesterday and same problem!
I took the bolt out again and one of the three rings looked burned up.I also took some video of it and playing it back today i slowed the video down and noticed what appears to be a little bit of a gas leak around my fsb. btw this was not even fourty rounds or so any ideas?thanks I tried some c-products mags and p-mags no difference.. |
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Send the entire B/C back to be replaced. Between the gas chamber section in the carrier or the ring groove in the bolt for the rings, something is out of spec, and the supplier will replace the defective B/C under warranty. I don't know if it's covered,I bought it through palmetto back in August. Should i contact them? btw i put about 700 rounds through it before i noticed any problems |
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Send the entire B/C back to be replaced. Between the gas chamber section in the carrier or the ring groove in the bolt for the rings, something is out of spec, and the supplier will replace the defective B/C under warranty. I don't know if it's covered,I bought it through palmetto back in August. Should i contact them? btw i put about 700 rounds through it before i noticed any problems 700 rounds and 7 months should be within the manufacturers coverage. AR operational parts failing after 700 rounds, are faulty parts in my mind. Hell, that's 1 day at a carbine course, or a day at the range for some. |
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I bought my first AR about 4 years ago, but I lurked here several months before that to learn as much as I could. Lot of people seemed to like the McFarland one-piece gas ring, so that was one of the first modifications I made.
Close to 5,000 rounds later, and never a problem. |
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OP, is there any markings on the side of your carrier? Like 1B1B6? nope,just the palmetto logo. I would send it back to psa. There has been some issues with carriers possibly supplied to FN, which psa uses FN parts. http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=100893 |
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Well got an im from psa stating that there was a burr on the inside of the carrier,
so they replaced the bcg,cleaned up the bolt,installed new rings and sent me an o-ring in the package also.Should be here by the end of the week,so i'll try to shoot it this weekend and see how it goes.As for my first time dealing with psa about an issue with my rifle,I can say their customer service was pretty good about dealing with the problem and fixing it in a timely manner.So as far as i'm concerned that's a big A+ for psa in my book. |
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Well got an im from psa stating that there was a burr on the inside of the carrier, so they replaced the bcg,cleaned up the bolt,installed new rings and sent me an o-ring in the package also.Should be here by the end of the week,so i'll try to shoot it this weekend and see how it goes.As for my first time dealing with psa about an issue with my rifle,I can say their customer service was pretty good about dealing with the problem and fixing it in a timely manner.So as far as i'm concerned that's a big A+ for psa in my book. Good to hear. 
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I just completed a 3 day carbine class today and had the same exact issue with one ring looking just like yours. It is PSA BCG that was purchased last year in the late summer. Round count was just a little over 1000. Guess I will be checking with PSA.
Thanks for posting your experience. |
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Went out and shot yesterday and noticed some ejection problems,some rounds
ejected fine about 2-3 oclock position,then others kinda just rolled out of gun towards me.Ok so tried my brother-in-law's carrier out of his weapon,same thing(weird). I also tried some different ammo,same thing.Well by now I'm pretty frustrated.So wrapped it up for the day,went home and took the bolt out of the BRAND NEW CARRIER and to my surprise I notice this!!! http://i39.tinypic.com/sol1qd.jpg http://i39.tinypic.com/1zgydl3.jpg Ok so I know just because it's new does'nt all the time mean it's good,but really two different carriers in a row!!!BTW I only shot 70 rounds through it. WTF
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Went out and shot yesterday and noticed some ejection problems,some rounds ejected fine about 2-3 oclock position,then others kinda just rolled out of gun towards me.Ok so tried my brother-in-law's carrier out of his weapon,same thing(weird). I also tried some different ammo,same thing.Well by now I'm pretty frustrated.So wrapped it up for the day,went home and took the bolt out of the BRAND NEW CARRIER and to my surprise I notice this!!! http://i39.tinypic.com/sol1qd.jpg http://i39.tinypic.com/1zgydl3.jpg Ok so I know just because it's new does'nt all the time mean it's good,but really two different carriers in a row!!!BTW I only shot 70 rounds through it. WTFWhen you state that you are still tearing gas rings up in only 70rds while using two different carriers, is this the same bolt that was used in each bolt carrier, or is it two different complete bolt carrier assemblies? Also what type of additional bolt carrier or bolt carrier assembly was used when you state that it was a second one? CY6 Greg Sullivan "Sully" SLR15 Rifles TheDefensiveEdge.com (763) 712-0123 |
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Went out and shot yesterday and noticed some ejection problems,some rounds ejected fine about 2-3 oclock position,then others kinda just rolled out of gun towards me.Ok so tried my brother-in-law's carrier out of his weapon,same thing(weird). I also tried some different ammo,same thing.Well by now I'm pretty frustrated.So wrapped it up for the day,went home and took the bolt out of the BRAND NEW CARRIER and to my surprise I notice this!!! http://i39.tinypic.com/sol1qd.jpg http://i39.tinypic.com/1zgydl3.jpg Ok so I know just because it's new does'nt all the time mean it's good,but really two different carriers in a row!!!BTW I only shot 70 rounds through it. WTFWhen you state that you are still tearing gas rings up in only 70rds while using two different carriers, is this the same bolt that was used in each bolt carrier, or is it two different complete bolt carrier assemblies? Also what type of additional bolt carrier or bolt carrier assembly was used when you state that it was a second one? CY6 Greg Sullivan "Sully" SLR15 Rifles TheDefensiveEdge.com (763) 712-0123 I sent my original bcg back to psa,which they said they found a burr in the carrier. So they cleaned up my bolt and installed new rings along with a new cam pin and replaced the carrier and sent it back to me.So yes it is the same bolt just in a new carrier from psa.Do you think I could have a problem with my bolt? Thanks for the reply |
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I sent my original bcg back to psa,which they said they found a burr in the carrier. So they cleaned up my bolt and installed new rings along with a new cam pin and replaced the carrier and sent it back to me.So yes it is the same bolt just in a new carrier from psa.Do you think I could have a problem with my bolt? Thanks for the reply What I am asking for clarification on is the 70rds that you fired, you state that you used your Brother-In-Laws carrier out of his weapon, and then state same thing. When using his carrier, were you using just his bolt carrier with your original bolt, using his complete bolt carrier assembly, or what? If using his bolt or complete bolt carrier assembly, were his gas rings being chewed up as fast as well? CY6 Greg Sullivan "Sully" SLR15 Rifles TheDefensiveEdge.com (763) 712-0123 |
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I sent my original bcg back to psa,which they said they found a burr in the carrier. So they cleaned up my bolt and installed new rings along with a new cam pin and replaced the carrier and sent it back to me.So yes it is the same bolt just in a new carrier from psa.Do you think I could have a problem with my bolt? Thanks for the reply What I am asking for clarification on is the 70rds that you fired, you state that you used your Brother-In-Laws carrier out of his weapon, and then state same thing. When using his carrier, were you using just his bolt carrier with your original bolt, using his complete bolt carrier assembly, or what? If using his bolt or complete bolt carrier assembly, were his gas rings being chewed up as fast as well? CY6 Greg Sullivan "Sully" SLR15 Rifles TheDefensiveEdge.com (763) 712-0123 Oh I get you,so yes i was using his entire bcg.The only thing different when using his bcg was i did'nt have any stovepipes.But i only ran ten rounds of ammo with it.His bcg ejected 8 out of 10 normal,but two of the rounds kinda rolled out of the gun back towards me,and as far as his rings go we never checked them out so i don't know what they were like.He did put it back in his gun afterwards and it run fine though. |
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I sent my original bcg back to psa,which they said they found a burr in the carrier. So they cleaned up my bolt and installed new rings along with a new cam pin and replaced the carrier and sent it back to me.So yes it is the same bolt just in a new carrier from psa.Do you think I could have a problem with my bolt? Thanks for the reply What I am asking for clarification on is the 70rds that you fired, you state that you used your Brother-In-Laws carrier out of his weapon, and then state same thing. When using his carrier, were you using just his bolt carrier with your original bolt, using his complete bolt carrier assembly, or what? If using his bolt or complete bolt carrier assembly, were his gas rings being chewed up as fast as well? CY6 Greg Sullivan "Sully" SLR15 Rifles TheDefensiveEdge.com (763) 712-0123 Oh I get you,so yes i was using his entire bcg.The only thing different when using his bcg was i did'nt have any stovepipes.But i only ran ten rounds of ammo with it.His bcg ejected 8 out of 10 normal,but two of the rounds kinda rolled out of the gun back towards me,and as far as his rings go we never checked them out so i don't know what they were like.He did put it back in his gun afterwards and it run fine though. I have a couple of ideas, but I need some more information first. You did assemble this from a Palmetto State kit correct? Was the upper already assembled, or did you assemble it? Do you notice any more fouling in your BCG vs your Brother in Law's (when he had it in his rifle) using the same ammunition? What does the gas tube end look like in the upper, is there a lot of carbon on or near it? |
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As far as ejection,clean the chamber,oil clean the ejector per TM and try some different ammo and see if the rifle breaks in alright..
From what I see on the gas rings,still looks like a rough carrier chamber bore.Maybe there is a machined ring in the rear of the carrier chamber that is only ontacting the last ring on the bolt.Could just be a bad run of carriers. Could simply be crappy gas rings being supplied as well,Ive seen that a few times myself. Can you remove the rings and post a picture of them individually seperated as well? |
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I sent my original bcg back to psa,which they said they found a burr in the carrier. So they cleaned up my bolt and installed new rings along with a new cam pin and replaced the carrier and sent it back to me.So yes it is the same bolt just in a new carrier from psa.Do you think I could have a problem with my bolt? Thanks for the reply What I am asking for clarification on is the 70rds that you fired, you state that you used your Brother-In-Laws carrier out of his weapon, and then state same thing. When using his carrier, were you using just his bolt carrier with your original bolt, using his complete bolt carrier assembly, or what? If using his bolt or complete bolt carrier assembly, were his gas rings being chewed up as fast as well? CY6 Greg Sullivan "Sully" SLR15 Rifles TheDefensiveEdge.com (763) 712-0123 Oh I get you,so yes i was using his entire bcg.The only thing different when using his bcg was i did'nt have any stovepipes.But i only ran ten rounds of ammo with it.His bcg ejected 8 out of 10 normal,but two of the rounds kinda rolled out of the gun back towards me,and as far as his rings go we never checked them out so i don't know what they were like.He did put it back in his gun afterwards and it run fine though. I have a couple of ideas, but I need some more information first. You did assemble this from a Palmetto State kit correct? Was the upper already assembled, or did you assemble it? Do you notice any more fouling in your BCG vs your Brother in Law's (when he had it in his rifle) using the same ammunition? What does the gas tube end look like in the upper, is there a lot of carbon on or near it? Yes this was a psa standard rifle kit which was a complete upper when I recieved it.As far as the fouling in/around my bcg,I didn't really notice any difference between the two after we fired them(of course they were both covered in clp).For the end of the gas tube,it had some carbon on it,but nothing excessive. Hope that helps. |
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As far as ejection,clean the chamber,oil clean the ejector per TM and try some different ammo and see if the rifle breaks in alright.. From what I see on the gas rings,still looks like a rough carrier chamber bore.Maybe there is a machined ring in the rear of the carrier chamber that is only ontacting the last ring on the bolt.Could just be a bad run of carriers. Could simply be crappy gas rings being supplied as well,Ive seen that a few times myself. Can you remove the rings and post a picture of them individually seperated as well? Pictures as requested. Here's the rings that just came off the bolt! 
I know it kinda looks like there might be a burr in the carrier,but from the naked eye I don't see nothing,or feel anything dragging against the rings?I kinda thought of something at work today,could it be possible that the on the bolt where the rings go be undersized not allowing a proper seal in the carrier?Just a thought.Idk |
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As far as ejection,clean the chamber,oil clean the ejector per TM and try some different ammo and see if the rifle breaks in alright.. From what I see on the gas rings,still looks like a rough carrier chamber bore.Maybe there is a machined ring in the rear of the carrier chamber that is only ontacting the last ring on the bolt.Could just be a bad run of carriers. Could simply be crappy gas rings being supplied as well,Ive seen that a few times myself. Can you remove the rings and post a picture of them individually seperated as well? Pictures as requested. Here's the rings that just came off the bolt! http://i43.tinypic.com/ixw9qq.jpg http://i44.tinypic.com/30huag7.jpg http://i39.tinypic.com/2mczq6q.jpg I know it kinda looks like there might be a burr in the carrier,but from the naked eye I don't see nothing,or feel anything dragging against the rings?I kinda thought of something at work today,could it be possible that the on the bolt where the rings go be undersized not allowing a proper seal in the carrier?Just a thought.Idk Yeap I guess its possible the ring groove could be tight enough to cause the rings to bind and or stick. Do the rings move freely in the bolts ring groove,in otherwords do they have enough tolerance to push side to side in the bolt? Is the bolt hard to install in the carrier other than normal light resistant when the rings ride up the leade in shoulder to the gas chamber of the carrier? Looks like the ring tear drop end shows some shear.When installing the bolt in the carrier go slowly and easy.Rings should be wet with lube too. |
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I really can get a good photo of my spare gas rings to show here (I will keep trying) but I do see a difference...
I measured the new rings and found the following: -Colt factory - measured .0155. They are very flat, lacking a bent shape from being cut out. The two ends, forming the gap are even in size and are slightly larger than those you have pictured. The gap ends are also rounded without sharp corners. -BCM new - measured .0155. They look identical to the above described Colt rings. -DPMS new - measured .0170. They have a slightly concave look and are not laying flat like the previous rings. The edges are a bit sharp looking, possibly from being punched out during manufacture. The gap ends have sharp corners that are not as rounded as the other rings. Maybe you should give a try for some Colt, BCM or even the McFarland (one piece) rings in your rifle. Don't know it it will help but it can not hurt to have knkown good quality parts in the rifle. Got this photo by scanning the rings, they are actually very shiny not the grey you see here: 
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As far as ejection,clean the chamber,oil clean the ejector per TM and try some different ammo and see if the rifle breaks in alright.. From what I see on the gas rings,still looks like a rough carrier chamber bore.Maybe there is a machined ring in the rear of the carrier chamber that is only ontacting the last ring on the bolt.Could just be a bad run of carriers. Could simply be crappy gas rings being supplied as well,Ive seen that a few times myself. Can you remove the rings and post a picture of them individually seperated as well? Pictures as requested. Here's the rings that just came off the bolt! http://i43.tinypic.com/ixw9qq.jpg http://i44.tinypic.com/30huag7.jpg http://i39.tinypic.com/2mczq6q.jpg I know it kinda looks like there might be a burr in the carrier,but from the naked eye I don't see nothing,or feel anything dragging against the rings?I kinda thought of something at work today,could it be possible that the on the bolt where the rings go be undersized not allowing a proper seal in the carrier?Just a thought.Idk Yeap I guess its possible the ring groove could be tight enough to cause the rings to bind and or stick. Do the rings move freely in the bolts ring groove,in otherwords do they have enough tolerance to push side to side in the bolt? Is the bolt hard to install in the carrier other than normal light resistant when the rings ride up the leade in shoulder to the gas chamber of the carrier? Looks like the ring tear drop end shows some shear.When installing the bolt in the carrier go slowly and easy.Rings should be wet with lube too. Yes the rings have little play side to side on the bolt and as far as the bolt being put in the carrier,there is slight resistance when I put the bolt in. Nothing that seems abnormal.I also saturate the bolt good before I put it in the carrier. |
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I really can get a good photo of my spare gas rings to show here (I will keep trying) but I do see a difference... I measured the new rings and found the following: -Colt factory - measured .0155. They are very flat, lacking a bent shape from being cut out. The two ends, forming the gap are even in size and are slightly larger than those you have pictured. The gap ends are also rounded without sharp corners. -BCM new - measured .0155. They look identical to the above described Colt rings. -DPMS new - measured .0170. They have a slightly concave look and are not laying flat like the previous rings. The edges are a bit sharp looking, possibly from being punched out during manufacture. The gap ends have sharp corners that are not as rounded as the other rings. Maybe you should give a try for some Colt, BCM or even the McFarland (one piece) rings in your rifle. Don't know it it will help but it can not hurt to have knkown good quality parts in the rifle. Got this photo by scanning the rings, they are actually very shiny not the grey you see here: http://i968.photobucket.com/albums/ae164/a308dsit/gasrings.jpg Yeah I see what you mean with the rings there.I actually installed a set of colt rings on my bolt from Brownells last night.I'm going to try and go shoot it this weekend and see how it goes.I also got out the mic and did some measuring myself and came up with the same measurements you had.I also noticed last night the colt rings do appear to be better quality.So I guess I'll see what happens with the colt rings on it. btw the rings that just came off my bolt measured .0155 also,but they do have a pretty sharp edge on one side like being stamp cut. |
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I really can get a good photo of my spare gas rings to show here (I will keep trying) but I do see a difference... I measured the new rings and found the following: -Colt factory - measured .0155. They are very flat, lacking a bent shape from being cut out. The two ends, forming the gap are even in size and are slightly larger than those you have pictured. The gap ends are also rounded without sharp corners. -BCM new - measured .0155. They look identical to the above described Colt rings. -DPMS new - measured .0170. They have a slightly concave look and are not laying flat like the previous rings. The edges are a bit sharp looking, possibly from being punched out during manufacture. The gap ends have sharp corners that are not as rounded as the other rings. Maybe you should give a try for some Colt, BCM or even the McFarland (one piece) rings in your rifle. Don't know it it will help but it can not hurt to have knkown good quality parts in the rifle. Got this photo by scanning the rings, they are actually very shiny not the grey you see here: http://i968.photobucket.com/albums/ae164/a308dsit/gasrings.jpg Yeah I see what you mean with the rings there.I actually installed a set of colt rings on my bolt from Brownells last night.I'm going to try and go shoot it this weekend and see how it goes.I also got out the mic and did some measuring myself and came up with the same measurements you had.I also noticed last night the colt rings do appear to be better quality.So I guess I'll see what happens with the colt rings on it. btw the rings that just came off my bolt measured .0155 also,but they do have a pretty sharp edge on one side like being stamp cut. As others have said, install the sharper edge facing towards the rear of the bolt. 
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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - gas ring problem?Problem solved!! (Page 1 of 2)
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