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Posted: 10/27/2006 4:08:09 PM EST
Who has the best upper with a gas piston? POF or Leitner Wise? What is the group consensus of who has the best gas piston system? Leitner Wise is close to Belvoir in VA. Has anyone shot and cleaned one and what is the accuracy and do they convert uppers? Hope to hear some good info. Roy
Link Posted: 10/27/2006 4:09:16 PM EST
I'll wait for more informed people to reply, but from what I hear, L&W is a superior system to the POF/(BUSHMASTER).
Link Posted: 10/27/2006 5:36:13 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/27/2006 5:36:51 PM EST by DK-Prof]
I have tried neither, but if I were to buy one (I'm still undecided on the piston concept), I'd go with POF myself - but I'm definitely curious to hear from anyone that hs tried both, or has experience with them.
Link Posted: 10/27/2006 5:42:10 PM EST
I haven't shot the LW. I have shot an HK416 and I own a POF. I'm not even considering an HK416 if they become available.
Link Posted: 10/27/2006 7:26:18 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/27/2006 7:29:28 PM EST by P229SAS]
Why are you not going to consider an HK 416? I am guessing that the price, if they become available on the civilian market, is going to be outlandish - as if the others are not expensive enough. I would have bought a POF already had it not been for the fact that I could build a new rifle with accessories for the price of just the upper

I sure hope they will eventually come down once the different manufacturers get tooled up and start cranking these out.
Link Posted: 10/27/2006 8:52:13 PM EST
POF all the way
Link Posted: 10/27/2006 10:38:33 PM EST
I have an LW but have not had the chance to shoot a POF yet or an HK. What I can tell you is I like the fact the LW is self regulating and the potential for FF handguard applications is better. IMO... The POF system is a bit on the big side and you're stuck with the predator rail system.
Link Posted: 10/28/2006 5:30:03 AM EST
I just ran across the Ares piston conversion today.
I own a POF upper and it works fine but I had to send it back, looks like some peeling of the lining of the barrel. I had it about 2 weeks.
No word back yet, it has been about 6 weeks since they got it.
That is the only downside of the two major manufacturers, their turnaround has been sad. I figure they either have serious manpower issues or don't get in a hurry.

The Ares looks fine and the price is less than $400.
I have just started doing research to see if it is reliable and see if others have had a good experience with it.
Kurt Kustom Firearms has a design that is basically the LW system, which he says he developed, and he says he is coming out with a drop in conversion, but as usual, no delivery date as of yet.
I don't know if there are any other manufacturers out there.

So, I have an email into Ares for a definite price and how long it will take to get it delivered. I will keep everyone posted.
Link Posted: 10/28/2006 6:47:13 AM EST
Have shot the LW and the POF. I will give you some random thoguhts on both. LW is a smaller and lighter system. LW puts magnified optics low where I want them. For me the POF is only good for an Aimpoint in a low mount. LW is self regulating and does not require a flip of the piston when going suppressed like the POF. LW is quieter than DI when comparing suppressed weapons. POF is louder than DI when comparing suppressed weapons. LW does conversions (I would not go this route unless it was a high end barrel... if its milspec just get a factory gun) POF does not do conversions. POF has the nickle lined uppers which is a nice feature and the bolt group is hard chromed. LW uses a Sandstrom lined upper (dry lube) and a teflon coated carrier. POF will look nice for longer inside the weapon while the LW shows wear marks internally pretty fast. Both system perform best with an Enidine buffer compared to regular or the MGI buffer. The MGI buffer produces less reduction in recoil in both and the POF runs faster on the MGI than the Enidine full auto. MGI vents gas in such a way it will put a black powder mark on your weak hand index finger knuckle if you use a vertical grip in the middle position on a carbine rail. The folks at LW will work and talk with you more than POF. POF has more factory options, LW will do more custom work.
Link Posted: 10/28/2006 6:51:44 AM EST

Originally Posted By okent:
I just ran across the Ares piston conversion today.
I own a POF upper and it works fine but I had to send it back, looks like some peeling of the lining of the barrel. I had it about 2 weeks.
No word back yet, it has been about 6 weeks since they got it.
That is the only downside of the two major manufacturers, their turnaround has been sad. I figure they either have serious manpower issues or don't get in a hurry.

The Ares looks fine and the price is less than $400.
I have just started doing research to see if it is reliable and see if others have had a good experience with it.
Kurt Kustom Firearms has a design that is basically the LW system, which he says he developed, and he says he is coming out with a drop in conversion, but as usual, no delivery date as of yet.
I don't know if there are any other manufacturers out there.

So, I have an email into Ares for a definite price and how long it will take to get it delivered. I will keep everyone posted.



The KKF system is quite different from the LW system. LW system was inspired by the KKF system but the KKF system was totally unreliable, thus he had LW look at the system to see what was wrong. LW released their own version which is self regualting, soved the carrier lift problems, ect. The KKF system has been "coming soon" for several years. KKF stated he would sue LW for patent infringement but there was no legal grounds for a lawsuit. The LW system is different and has had several improvements since first released.
Link Posted: 10/28/2006 8:16:51 AM EST
Thanks for the info DevL
I agree that LW has some advantages, especially not having to flip the piston.
I got the POF because I shoot almost exclusively suppressed, AWC Raider, and was getting frequent stoppages with my DI upper unless I kept it VERY clean.
To my ears the POF is quieter suppressed than my DI upper and it significantly cuts down on the blow back through the bolt. (my son is a lefty) Both will make my ears ring but it takes more rounds through the POF. I don't have any DB measurements but it just sounds better.
The thing that made me go with the POF was the fact that you can clean the piston system without removing the rail. I know that the LW rail is supposed to be a return to zero sytem but I just don't like the idea of taking it off.
I agree that the predator rail is heavier and higher profile.
I was at the gun show in Tulsa last weekend and looked at the LW uppers.
A little harder to take apart and put back together compared to the POF. However, the purpose of the system is to not have to do that often.
I will probably end up getting a LW upper and also the Ares conversion.
I just like the idea of the piston systems.
Link Posted: 10/28/2006 7:06:36 PM EST
Just to add to DevL's comments, LW has Great Customer Service and are better at getting back to you in Email & Phone. I have also noticed that the availability of LW uppers has improved over that last month vs POF.
Those factors influenced my decision to go with LW. After emailing both POF and LW the same week and only hearing back from LW, I was sold. Darren and Paul also spent quite some time with me on the phone to answer my questions and just shoot the breeze. Definitely stand up guys and I've been very happy with my purchase.
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