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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 8/26/2005 8:29:48 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/1/2005 2:03:35 PM EDT by Szurgot]
I live in Louisiana and my brother lives in Kentucky. I gave him a stripped AR15 lower as a present a couple months ago. We signed a transfer agreement and since the state he lives in doesnt have a ban against this type of weapon, I thought I did everything according to the law.

The thought just occurred to me, since we live in different states, would this be REQUIRED to be done at a FFL. This is my brother, I know he has no criminal record, etc. so I wasnt thinking we need to do so.

Am I okay on this issue or do I need to get that thing back from him. On a side note, I know it is considered a "firearm", but I know it is just sitting on his shelf collecting dust while he saves some money for a kit.

Help
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 9:08:27 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/26/2005 9:10:22 AM EDT by CFFUTS23]
Actually, this is a really good question. Typically transfering a rifle to another person across state lines is fine, assuming that the person taking ownership of the rifle is allowed to own a rifle and assuming the rifle isn't banned by state or Federal law (see section B of the link below).

Transfers of pistols between non-licensees (i.e. folks without an FFL) can only happen between residents of the same state Link.

Since a stripped lower could be built into either a pistol or a rifle you have entered a grey area of the law. If the lower is built into a rifle, then you are all set. If the lower is built into a pistol, then you have technically broke the law. If the lower is built into a pistol, then reconfigured into a rifle then I'd guess you have broken the law since it is papered as a pistol.

Kinda fun poking holes in the law. What did the paperwork say when you bought the stripped lower? Pistol? Rifle? Stripped lower?
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 9:16:57 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/26/2005 6:50:14 PM EDT by j3_]
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Link Posted: 8/26/2005 9:30:24 AM EDT
j3 is correct
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 9:45:20 AM EDT
Strange as it seems, the nekkid receiver is considered a firearm. All because it has the serial number on it.

And since the two of you live in seperate states it has to be transfered to him through a FFL holder. You can send it to one in his state or, unless state laws prohibit it (I wouldn't think so as we're talking southern states) he can have it transfered to him by a dealer in your state.

What is not allowed is a face-to-face, or private transaction because of the crossing of state lines. Per federal law.
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 10:06:54 AM EDT
I would think that if it isn't already registered as a pistol lower, you shouldn't of worried about it... But since the ATF and everyone else that read your post now knows that you did what you did, you better make it right

All that is accomplished by transferring a rifle through an FFL is the criminal background check that need to be done... And like you already stated, its you brother and you know he's cool...
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 10:36:48 AM EDT
Well, seems while I was at lunch you guys came up with my answer, thanks.

I need to contact the bro now and see if he wants to keep it, get it to a FFL.
If not, I want it back, I am sure I could find a use for it.

Funny how trying to do something right can still be wrong, especially in the eyes of the law.

Hopefully they wont come get me until we get this honest mistake worked out.

BTW, it is registered as a rifle, not pistol, in my name when I got it through my FFL.

Thanks for the info guys.
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 10:45:00 AM EDT
You say its registered as a rifle? Here in Pennsylvania we don't need to register rifles, only handguns need to be registered... With rifles, the FFL only does a background check, and if you check clean, you walk out the door with your rifle
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 10:49:22 AM EDT

Originally Posted By theshootersden:
You say its registered as a rifle? Here in Pennsylvania we don't need to register rifles, only handguns need to be registered... With rifles, the FFL only does a background check, and if you check clean, you walk out the door with your rifle



I imagine it is the same in Kentucky, there is no specific state law against the ar15. It is not a matter of licensing in my state or his. It is a matter of interstate transfer, which looks like must be done at a FFL. In my state neither handguns or rifles need to be registered with local authorities,
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 11:17:41 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/26/2005 11:18:38 AM EDT by theshootersden]
In PA, licensing is only for a CCW permit and handguns aren't registered with local authorities, just the state...
Handgun purchases are done in an instant, get an instant background check, registry and then out the door you go, with your new handgun
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 12:08:16 PM EDT
An interesting twist on this that I failed to mention. See if this changes anyone's interpetation of this. I just spoke to my local FFL that handled the transfer when I purchase the stripped lower.
He said since the transaction between my brother and I took place face to face, that all is well. Mailing a firearms between states to a person other than yourself, needs to be handled at a FFL.
I dont know what to believe now, I think calling the ATF to find out their answer would only complicate this.
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 12:29:12 PM EDT
I'm not absolutely positive but the way I understand the face to face transactions to be, they need to be between two parties that reside in the same state and you need to be sure that the person that you are transferring the rifle to isn't a felon or have an conviction for domestic violence?
This might not be the law, so please don't anyone rely on this information...
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 12:29:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/26/2005 6:52:46 PM EDT by j3_]
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Link Posted: 8/26/2005 3:21:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/26/2005 3:42:31 PM EDT by KingC]
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Link Posted: 8/26/2005 5:07:33 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 5:32:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By David_Hineline:
Considering that your brother was visiting you at the time in your home state, at his temporary vacation home he is a legal resident of both places, since you gave the firearm to a resident of your own state there is not problem.

I think the highlighted part of the above quote deserve some attention. The person in question could easily be a property owner in both states, and that muddies the "state resident" issue-not necessarily in this case, but in general.

So what is THE law on this? If I own a home in Texas and a cottage in Michigan, (therefore having legal residences in both states) am I a legal resident of BOTH states for the purposes of the GCA?
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 5:36:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By David_Hineline:
Considering that your brother was visiting you at the time in your home state, at his temporary vacation home he is a legal resident of both places, since you gave the firearm to a resident of your own state there is not problem.




I really wouldn't worry about it too much either, if it were me.
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 6:05:18 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Szurgot:
Well, seems while I was at lunch you guys came up with my answer, thanks.

I need to contact the bro now and see if he wants to keep it, get it to a FFL.
If not, I want it back, I am sure I could find a use for it.

Funny how trying to do something right can still be wrong, especially in the eyes of the law.

Hopefully they wont come get me until we get this honest mistake worked out.

BTW, it is registered as a rifle, not pistol, in my name when I got it through my FFL.

Thanks for the info guys.



First of all, the rifle isn't "registered" with anyone except your dealer's book where he keeps all his sale records. Neither the ATF, nor the Louisiana State Police know that you have what you have.

Second, why would anyone assume that what they do is legal w/o checking? Did it ever occur to you to go to the ATF website? They have some nifty FAQs where they explain about 99% of the questions I see answered incorrectly here and in many other websites.
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 6:06:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/26/2005 6:53:21 PM EDT by j3_]
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Link Posted: 8/26/2005 6:06:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By GHPorter:

Originally Posted By David_Hineline:
Considering that your brother was visiting you at the time in your home state, at his temporary vacation home he is a legal resident of both places, since you gave the firearm to a resident of your own state there is not problem.

I think the highlighted part of the above quote deserve some attention. The person in question could easily be a property owner in both states, and that muddies the "state resident" issue-not necessarily in this case, but in general.

So what is THE law on this? If I own a home in Texas and a cottage in Michigan, (therefore having legal residences in both states) am I a legal resident of BOTH states for the purposes of the GCA?



The FAQs in the ATF website address this exact same issue.
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 6:17:16 PM EDT
I have realized my error and I am taking steps to correct it. You are right, I should have checked first. I have no excuse.
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 6:21:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Szurgot:
Well, seems while I was at lunch you guys came up with my answer, thanks.

I need to contact the bro now and see if he wants to keep it, get it to a FFL.
If not, I want it back, I am sure I could find a use for it.

Funny how trying to do something right can still be wrong, especially in the eyes of the law.

Hopefully they wont come get me until we get this honest mistake worked out.

BTW, it is registered as a rifle, not pistol, in my name when I got it through my FFL.

Thanks for the info guys.



I live in New Jersey. You should deal with this mess. You can break the law here a dozen times and not know it.
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