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Posted: 3/1/2005 4:52:54 AM EST
Where can i find a crane clone stock? Thanks.
Link Posted: 3/1/2005 5:03:31 AM EST
I got a couple back from the days when Green0 was selling them, one has been painted over, the other has its original texture, both have had internals replaced with RRA parts.  No buffer extension or buffer/spring, let me know if you're interested
Link Posted: 3/1/2005 5:06:20 AM EST
Why not just by one from LMT?  They are producing them now and according to some they are stronger than the originals and cost a hell of a lot less.
Link Posted: 3/1/2005 5:07:06 AM EST
LMT sells them. I think Adco in the industry section is an LMT dealer, but they are backordered on the crane clones.

WIZZO

EDIT:Dammit. M4arc beat me to it.
Link Posted: 3/1/2005 5:14:11 AM EST

Quoted:
LMT sells them. I think Adco in the industry section is an LMT dealer, but they are backordered on the crane clones.

WIZZO

EDIT:Dammit. M4arc beat me to it.



See what happens when your boss gives you 2 months to do a weeks worth of work?  Plenty of time to surf arfcom

If ADCO is out of stock check with C4iGrant or DennysGuns
Link Posted: 3/1/2005 6:17:44 AM EST
If you want the crane clone you can try this thread or email viper5194 and he might be able to get you one.
Link Posted: 3/1/2005 10:29:29 AM EST

Quoted:

Quoted:
LMT sells them. I think Adco in the industry section is an LMT dealer, but they are backordered on the crane clones.

WIZZO

EDIT:Dammit. M4arc beat me to it.



See what happens when your boss gives you 2 months to do a weeks worth of work?  Plenty of time to surf arfcom

If ADCO is out of stock check with C4iGrant or DennysGuns



lol...so true
Link Posted: 3/1/2005 1:16:38 PM EST

Quoted:
LMT sells them. I think Adco in the industry section is an LMT dealer, but they are backordered on the crane clones.



The CLONES are the ones selling for around $75. The LMT ones ARE the true Crane stocks. They are the sole manufacturer for Crane now. Granted, the first generation Crane stocks are different from the newer LMT stocks, but the LMT stock has replaced the original Crane stock.
Link Posted: 3/1/2005 2:24:25 PM EST
The clones are more than adequate for everybody from your casual shooter to the relatively active wannabee commando.  I would suspect that the LMTs are better, but I don't own one, but I do own three clones and they are taking everything I can give them.  I aspire to be a wannabee commando some day.
Link Posted: 3/1/2005 2:28:51 PM EST
If anybody is interested,  I know a dealer from Austin that have complete LMT Crane stocks for $269.  I'm not related in anyway to him.  I just saw him at a show over the weekend.
Link Posted: 3/1/2005 3:00:46 PM EST

Quoted:
The clones are more than adequate for everybody from your casual shooter to the relatively active wannabee commando.  I would suspect that the LMTs are better, but I don't own one, but I do own three clones and they are taking everything I can give them.  I aspire to be a wannabee commando some day.



I have zero airsoft toy policy when it comes to my personal weapons.
Link Posted: 3/1/2005 3:07:38 PM EST

Quoted:

Quoted:
The clones are more than adequate for everybody from your casual shooter to the relatively active wannabee commando.  I would suspect that the LMTs are better, but I don't own one, but I do own three clones and they are taking everything I can give them.  I aspire to be a wannabee commando some day.



I have zero airsoft toy policy when it comes to my personal weapons.



I try everything.  If it breaks, .  I generally follow the same policy, and, in fact, overbuild just about everything I own.  The buttstocks were a pleasant surprise and still run on a couple of my weapons.

A very interesting, and somewhat enlightening comment, was made about the clones on another web site.  It went something like this (pertaining to the tube it fits on, in case you don't know):


"You mean to tell me that this airsoft replica is more milspec than a Bushmaster or RRA buttstock????"
Link Posted: 3/1/2005 3:28:41 PM EST
lol sure is true about the damn Bushy and RRA stocks.  A problem many of the clone Crane buyers had was the latch pin would eventually make the latch pin hole elongated (from a round hole to an oval) from either butt stroking or sustained recoil, the stock then would move along the buffer tube back and forth a bit.
Link Posted: 3/1/2005 7:58:34 PM EST

Quoted:
A problem many of the clone Crane buyers had was the latch pin would eventually make the latch pin hole elongated



3 days at ITTS killed mine.   But I have an excuse- LMT didn't make 'em then!

_________________________________________
Link Posted: 3/4/2005 6:46:54 AM EST

Quoted:
lol sure is true about the damn Bushy and RRA stocks.  A problem many of the clone Crane buyers had was the latch pin would eventually make the latch pin hole elongated (from a round hole to an oval) from either butt stroking or sustained recoil, the stock then would move along the buffer tube back and forth a bit.



Got me to thinking about a possible mod to the clones to remedy this............................................................................................
Link Posted: 3/4/2005 10:59:40 AM EST

Quoted:
Got me to thinking about a possible mod to the clones to remedy this............................................................................................



Do tell.
Link Posted: 3/4/2005 11:03:19 AM EST

Quoted:

Quoted:
Got me to thinking about a possible mod to the clones to remedy this............................................................................................



Do tell.



I'm not sure if it's possible just yet, but I'm thinking of a bushing of a more resiliant material, maybe aluminum or brass/bronze, around the lever bolt.  But what's to say that the stock won't just wear around the bushing like it does around the lever bolt.  I'll get a closer look at it this weekend to see if I'm thinking in the right direction or not.  I'm not going to go crazy with it.  If it looks like it could be relatively drop in, I might try it on one.
Link Posted: 3/4/2005 3:27:24 PM EST
I have several thousands rounds of full-auto on one of the clones with no problems and no wear.

That said, I also have an LMT stock as well. If I get a chance I will photograph them side by side from different apsects.

Link Posted: 3/4/2005 4:04:32 PM EST

Quoted:
Got me to thinking about a possible mod to the clones to remedy this............................................................................................



So you can harden soft/cheap Plastic (I doubt a bushing will help)

Please do tell, I would like to steal the patent.
Link Posted: 3/4/2005 5:10:40 PM EST
Ok, I've got two - they eggshape the hole due to abuse,

One - several thousand rounds of full auto without issue,

and One smartass telling me I can't harden plastic.

I think that a properly employed bushing could be a decent remedy in this situation, if I can get it in like I think I can.  You effectively increase the contact surface area of the potentially damaging component, in this case the bushing vs the operating lever screw, and you place a sacrificial barrier in there to take the damage.   Steel to plastic is a good combo for wear.  Steel to, say aluminum, then to plastic may hold up better.

I'm stuck at work on a double shift right now, for no apparent reason, as I'm not doing much, but anyway, when I get home, I'll check the stocks to see if my bushing idea has any merit.

And besides, let me have my fun.  Who knows, someday I might actually come up with something that works.
Link Posted: 3/4/2005 5:32:00 PM EST
Drill out the hole in the bottom side of the stock and then use a press in bronze bushing.



Link Posted: 3/4/2005 5:32:35 PM EST
The load will be transferred from the bushing to the Plastic just as it was from the pin to the plastic (even though the bearing surface is larger).

The end result will be the same.

[EDIT]...You are aware that the "elongated" hole was caused from recoil (load) and not friction (adjusting the stocks length)?

But by all means have your fun (even more so when your company is paying for it)! been their, done that.

I miss working Second Shift!
Link Posted: 3/4/2005 5:32:47 PM EST

Quoted:
Drill out the hole in the bottom side of the stock and then use a press in bronze bushing.








Thinking like I was.
Link Posted: 3/4/2005 6:19:06 PM EST

Quoted:
The load will be transferred from the bushing to the Plastic just as it was from the pin to the plastic



And this was thinking like I was.

_________________________________________
Link Posted: 3/4/2005 6:35:36 PM EST

Quoted:

Quoted:
The load will be transferred from the bushing to the Plastic just as it was from the pin to the plastic



And this was thinking like I was.

_________________________________________




It's worth a shot.  So I screw up a $70 piece of airsoft equipment.  Most here would take pleasure in doing that.
Link Posted: 3/4/2005 6:48:51 PM EST

Quoted:
It's worth a shot.  So I screw up a $70 piece of airsoft equipment.  Most here would take pleasure in doing that.



Me too.

As we are all aware…..destroying a worthless Airsoft knockoff will always save a cute little Kitten somewhere! (True Cat lover here, as I reside with two of the magnificent beasts!)
Link Posted: 3/7/2005 3:33:20 AM EST
I looked at my clone stocks and there appears to be enough meat there for a bushing of some type.  I'll get some measurements and draw something up on the computer at work and go from there.  Properly thought out, it should be relatively easy to make a threaded bushing out of brass/bronze and Loctite it in place.  Updates to follow.
Link Posted: 3/7/2005 6:09:40 PM EST
I sold a clone to get a lmt crane and the difference is very hard to see/tell, especially in use. The lmt is a little thicker material, different buttpad, I think the lmt has 2 o ring seals in the battery compartment and the "clone" had 1 -  I got the lmt because I heard of the hole  elongation problem on the older cranes which would show up with m203 use. But for my spr build I will go with a clone if I can find one, in this case imho, it is money well saved. I would say for what I use it for (no banging down doors / buttstock striking/etc) the clone is about 90% of the real one for much less.
Link Posted: 3/7/2005 6:35:22 PM EST
i would like to have an lmt one...
Link Posted: 3/7/2005 6:59:08 PM EST
Are you guys really debating whether or not Airsoft parts should be used on real guns!?  Wow.
Link Posted: 3/8/2005 4:00:58 AM EST
Sad trend ha!
Link Posted: 3/8/2005 4:07:16 AM EST

Quoted:
Are you guys really debating whether or not Airsoft parts should be used on real guns!?  Wow.



There's no debate.  They fit and they are more milspec in some aspects that RRA, Bushmaster and others.  Sorry we all can't be as elite as you are.

I have other, more "acceptable" buttstocks, like VLTOR, but what's wrong with testing something like this.  They have taken abuse, as ian has stated and others were less sturdy, as Duffy and others have stated.  Like I said, if I dork up a $70 airsoft part, big deal.
Link Posted: 3/8/2005 4:29:56 AM EST
"If it looks stupid, and it works, then it ain't stupid."
Link Posted: 3/8/2005 4:56:58 AM EST

Quoted:

Quoted:
Are you guys really debating whether or not Airsoft parts should be used on real guns!?  Wow.



There's no debate.  They fit and they are more milspec in some aspects that RRA, Bushmaster and others.  Sorry we all can't be as elite as you are.




LOL!  Is that what it takes to be considered "elite" around here - not using toy parts on my guns?!  And there you go, dragging out the old "milspec" canard - this time referring to Airsoft parts.  I guess that term is, finally and officially, completely worthless now.  




I have other, more "acceptable" buttstocks, like VLTOR, but what's wrong with testing something like this.  They have taken abuse, as ian has stated and others were less sturdy, as Duffy and others have stated.  Like I said, if I dork up a $70 airsoft part, big deal.




Go for it.  It's your gun.  I'm sure the hours you spend fitting it are well-worth the hundred bucks you're saving.  LOL!

Lastly, do the gun community a favor.  If you ever sell one of these guns - please do the right thing and disclose to the buyer that there are toy parts on it.  Thanks so much, in advance.
Link Posted: 3/8/2005 5:01:51 AM EST

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:
Are you guys really debating whether or not Airsoft parts should be used on real guns!?  Wow.



There's no debate.  They fit and they are more milspec in some aspects that RRA, Bushmaster and others.  Sorry we all can't be as elite as you are.




LOL!  Is that what it takes to be considered "elite" around here - not using toy parts on my guns?!  And there you go, dragging out the old "milspec" canard - this time referring to Airsoft parts.  I guess that term is, finally and officially, completely worthless now.  




I have other, more "acceptable" buttstocks, like VLTOR, but what's wrong with testing something like this.  They have taken abuse, as ian has stated and others were less sturdy, as Duffy and others have stated.  Like I said, if I dork up a $70 airsoft part, big deal.




Go for it.  It's your gun.  I'm sure the hours you spend fitting it are well-worth the hundred bucks you're saving.  LOL!

Lastly, do the gun community a favor.  If you ever sell one of these guns - please do the right thing and disclose to the buyer that there are toy parts on it.  Thanks so much, in advance.



Look who's back.  The blowhard.  Thanks for your insightful comments.  Don't worry, none of my rifles are all Colt, Wilson Combat or Les Baer, so you won't be interested.

Oh, and I made the bushing in 15 min and it should take another 15 min to install it into the buttstock.  
Link Posted: 3/8/2005 5:14:00 AM EST

Quoted:

Sorry we all can't be as elite as you are....

Look who's back.  The blowhard.  Thanks for your insightful comments.



Why the hate, always?




Don't worry, none of my rifles are all Colt, Wilson Combat or Les Baer, so you won't be interested



Let's see if I can summarize your thinking:  I like Colt.  You like Airsoft.  And I'm the blowhard!?    Okee dokey, buddy.  More power to ya.

(Note to self:  NEVER, EVER, buy anything from this guy.)

And yes, I'm guilty as charged.  On this board I defend elite gunsmiths from the irrational criticisms of people who openly criticize quality equipment while in the next breath advocating the use of toy parts on guns.  I'm sorry if that is so offensive to you.  Sheesh.
Link Posted: 3/8/2005 5:18:44 AM EST

Quoted:

Quoted:

Sorry we all can't be as elite as you are....

Look who's back.  The blowhard.  Thanks for your insightful comments.



Why the hate, always?




Don't worry, none of my rifles are all Colt, Wilson Combat or Les Baer, so you won't be interested



Let's see if I can summarize your thinking:  I like Colt.  You like Airsoft.  And I'm the blowhard!?    Okee dokey, buddy.  More power to ya.

(Note to self:  NEVER, EVER, buy anything from this guy.)

And yes, I'm guilty as charged.  On this board I defend elite gunsmiths from the irrational criticisms of people who openly criticize quality equipment while in the next breath advocating the use of toy parts on guns.  I'm sorry if that is so offensive to you.  Sheesh.



I buy a clone stock and now I like Airsoft.  You need to get over yourself.
Link Posted: 3/8/2005 7:24:19 AM EST
Is there any way we can get back to the topic at hand, namely stocks and bushings, and have a useful discussion rather than just play reauchambeau?
Link Posted: 3/8/2005 7:28:56 AM EST

Quoted:
Why not just by one from LMT?  They are producing them now and according to some they are stronger than the originals and cost a hell of a lot less.



Who's got these?
Link Posted: 3/8/2005 8:02:11 AM EST
Ok nark, your turn.  

Link Posted: 3/8/2005 8:36:55 AM EST

Quoted:

Quoted:
Why not just by one from LMT?  They are producing them now and according to some they are stronger than the originals and cost a hell of a lot less.



Who's got these?



Global Tactical Supply

G&R Tactical

ADCO Firearms

Bowers Tactical

JTAC Supply



To name a few.
Link Posted: 3/8/2005 8:56:06 AM EST
The LMT and the Airsoft stocks are worlds apart
Get the best you can afford
Link Posted: 3/8/2005 2:04:45 PM EST

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:

Sorry we all can't be as elite as you are....

Look who's back.  The blowhard.  Thanks for your insightful comments.



Why the hate, always?




Don't worry, none of my rifles are all Colt, Wilson Combat or Les Baer, so you won't be interested



Let's see if I can summarize your thinking:  I like Colt.  You like Airsoft.  And I'm the blowhard!?    Okee dokey, buddy.  More power to ya.

(Note to self:  NEVER, EVER, buy anything from this guy.)

And yes, I'm guilty as charged.  On this board I defend elite gunsmiths from the irrational criticisms of people who openly criticize quality equipment while in the next breath advocating the use of toy parts on guns.  I'm sorry if that is so offensive to you.  Sheesh.



I buy a clone stock and now I like Airsoft.  You need to get over yourself.



Narc, let me clue you in since you are kind of new around here. Mongo has built more than a few uppers and lowers from the ground up. He knows his shit. Just because he gives a product a fair shake BEFORE he condems it does not make him an airsofter. A lot of us trust his judgement because it is based on FACTS and not labels.

And I have a clone stock on my Colt 6920, so there
Link Posted: 3/8/2005 4:40:47 PM EST
What baffles me is the way the word AIRSOFT always gets skirted around in these forums and changed to the word "Clone" when talking about these stocks LOL

There are NO "Clone" Crane type buttstocks (unless it's an LMT), they are all AIRSOFT products.

Why are these AIRSOFT products not shunned in the way the Tacpoints and the crappy knock-off mounts are

If you’re in the field and your AIRSOFT buttstock breaks, you are in a heap more trouble then if your  AIRSOFT optic/mount craps out (transition to the irons).

Kinda hard to shoulder and effectively utilize a rifle with a broken buttstock.
Link Posted: 3/8/2005 4:49:24 PM EST

Quoted:

If you’re in the field and your AIRSOFT buttstock breaks, you are in a heap more trouble then if your  AIRSOFT optic/mount craps out (transition to the irons).

Kinda hard to shoulder and effectively utilize a rifle with a broken buttstock.



If my airsoft M16 stock breaks in the field,


I'll switch to my back up pink 9mm M16



Link Posted: 3/8/2005 5:29:37 PM EST

Quoted:



Ok, admit it, how many of you spent more than a couple of minutes trying to figure out WHAT ELSE Ian has in his safe????



For the rest of you, I've admitted all along about the less than stellar pedigree of these stocks.  Here's my response to one I bought:


Quoted:
I've got one that I installed on a VLTOR tube and, boy is that thing tight.  No rattle side to side or front to back.  The finish was a little glossy, like described, but a little ScotchBrite and elbow grease dulled it right down.  I'm extremely happy with my setup, even though I sold my soul and put "clone" parts on my AR.  Maybe in the future, if I run across an excess amount of OT at work, I'll upgrade to the real deal, but I'm happy with what I have for now.



If you follow me here, you will find out that I'm always messing with something, be it testing the poorly reviewed POF-USA Predator P4 rail system, be it modifying and custom building flash hiders, be it messing with these AIRSOFT stocks or maybe even trying to break a T56 knockoff scope.  I'm always messing with something.  I hear alot of talk from others, but I don't see anything other than words from them, and that's fine.  I'm not asking for nor wanting anybody to prove anything to me.  As a matter of fact, I could really give a shit less.   These stocks are not a field ready item, and I've never admitted that they are.  For me, they are entertainment, just as some of you are.

Editted to add:  I'll be getting a true LMT stock here very soon.  I guess it's not really fair to compare the Airsoft copy to the real thing if I don't have one in my hands to compare it to.  I'll order one tomorrow.  I just worked a double shift tonight and I may have a little extra cash.
Link Posted: 3/8/2005 6:09:00 PM EST
With the exception of a few people in this thread, most have no experience with either stock.

If you have pics or real experiences, post it. Information is useful, banter is not. Those that are full of crap, and just running their mouthes, you know who you are.


LMT and clone side by side.




LMT




Clone




Link Posted: 3/8/2005 6:28:47 PM EST
I bought one despite the scorn dished out,, but my intention was always to buy a weapons grade Crane when it became available, and when it did, I did (two of them)
I was probably the first guy to experience the elongated pin hole problem.  Kisara found this out after he shot a few hundred rounds in training classes, I found out when I tried to replace the internals with RRA parts.  I used a hammer and pounded on the steel rolled pin in order to get it to go in the nut, immediately after that I noticed a back and forth slack.

Here's my airsoft gun with made-for-airsoft fakes  BTW, Mongo is the man!
Link Posted: 3/8/2005 6:46:31 PM EST

Quoted:
Kisara found this out after he shot a few hundred rounds in training classes, I found out when I tried to replace the internals with RRA parts.  
home.earthlink.net/~whitman/MRP2.JPG



Damn, and all along I thought Kisara was some cool ar chick from the picture


BTW, just so I am clear, I hadn't heard of pin problems with the crane clone stocks, I had heard about them with the original "real" crane NSW stocks when used with 203's. The lmt crane version was supposed to have changed/strengthened this area.
Link Posted: 3/8/2005 7:15:01 PM EST
Oh, pay no attention to that photo.   Here's a real photo of me for you to dream about:


Can you spot the real Crane?



_________________________________________

Link Posted: 3/8/2005 8:45:04 PM EST
If you guys choose to put toy parts on your guns, that's fine with me.  All I'm saying is, be honest, because there are people reading this who want honest information and advice.  Call it what it is, a toy stock.  And definitely let any potential buyer know that you're using Airsoft products.  "Clone" doesn't give an accurate picture IMO, and neither does the use of the term "milspec" when discussing these toy parts.  The Airsoft products are made to look like the real thing, and therefore can be very misleading.  But, they aren't meant for hard use like the LMT stocks.

The truth shouldn't hurt, after all, it's just the truth.  In this case, the truth is that LMT manufactures quality gun parts for the US government, while Airsoft manufactures quality toy parts for people who enjoy quality toys, which are pretty cool by the way.  End of story.  

I weigh products based mainly on reliability and resale value.  Interestingly, reliable parts tend to hold their value very well - which, from an investment perspective, means that the "cost" of such parts really is negligable considering you can always get your money back out of them.  So, I can't help but wonder why anyone would throw away $70 on a toy stock, that seems to already have bad durability issues, when you can buy the real thing for not that much more, and the real thing will hold its value over time.  Oh well, I suspect that I'll never understand this type of thinking.

Nevertheless, since this is a forum where people seek advice, I'll give my 2 cents worth.  I use LMT stocks and Colt stocks on my ARs (ostensibly because I'm an elitist).  I find them to be 100% reliable, very robust, and I'm very happy with them.  I favor the Colt tube and the LMT stock, though, I recommend either manufacturer in this case.  And, either way, you won't need to question their durability or reliability.
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