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Posted: 10/2/2005 7:51:42 AM EDT
which is better?

i know i know, they are both great, accurate rifles, but when they go up the likes of a colt which is better, better parts, better life, better against weather conditions- curious, thanks
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 7:58:10 AM EDT
Bushmaster
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 7:58:19 AM EDT
Have both and like both. Small advantages to each here and there. Personally I guess I like my Bushmasters best between the two. Maybe because my first was a Bushy.

Good luck with your decision. I don't think you will be disappointed with either.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 8:06:56 AM EDT
As with Mexican restaurants in El Paso, if you are not good, you will not stay in business, same goes for Italian in NY and so forth.

Bushmaster has not been in business this long for making a marginal product. I do not own one but have shot many.

I am a RRA fan, only RRA in my closet. Both are fine and do the job and I do not feel they are inferior to Colt, Many of my shooting buddies have switched to RRA from BM and Colt.

I feel the RRA has an edge over BM in terms of fit finish and just a general overall feel. It is hard to explain, but I give the win to RRA.

Thanks,

77Bronc
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 8:08:27 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/2/2005 8:16:19 AM EDT by dobber]
Either one will serve you well. I have 1 of each and like the RRA better.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 8:11:34 AM EDT
RRA
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 8:17:16 AM EDT
Both are great and IMHO better than Colt as to cost. I have a few Bushys and many in my S.O. have RRA and love tham. Great to shoot and I can say thay BM/RRA are of equal mech. operation. Finish may be a bit better on the RRAs.

YMMV
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 8:17:45 AM EDT
Either one is fine, they are both good weapons. Just remember to compare the options you are getting if you make a decision. Chrome lining is still an option on many RRA barrels, where it is standard on most Bushies.

Link Posted: 10/2/2005 8:18:33 AM EDT
Bushmaster.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 8:19:04 AM EDT
RRA
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 8:23:23 AM EDT
I'm choosing RRA mostly due to the "what you get for your money" factor.

I love my RRA!!

Link Posted: 10/2/2005 8:28:59 AM EDT
RRA.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 8:29:58 AM EDT
I just love all the people posting a one word answer whos only experience with Ar's includes the only AR they have ever owned. For those of you who posted RRA or Bushmaster, please give your opinions on why they are better.
Personally I have owned BOTH with none being better than the other. Best bang for your buck goes to RRA, while most "mil-spec features" goes to BM.

Link Posted: 10/2/2005 8:39:24 AM EDT
Bushmaster.

RRA uses Wylde chamber (huh?) V. 5.56

Chrome is option-only in RRA - std in BM

RRA is not mil-spec. I realize we aren't military, but our replacement parts are

Proprietary carry handle on many RRA products- not sure about that one

Customer Support goes to Bushy- they have absolutely everything for the AR enthusist under one roof

While both are very good, it would be Bushmaster by a small margin

But then again Colt is better than either one of them. But that wasn't your question, was it?
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 8:46:24 AM EDT

Originally Posted By BucsFan1:
Bushmaster.

RRA uses Wylde chamber (huh?) V. 5.56

Chrome is option-only in RRA - std in BM

RRA is not mil-spec. I realize we aren't military, but our replacement parts are

Proprietary carry handle on many RRA products- not sure about that one

Customer Support goes to Bushy- they have absolutely everything for the AR enthusist under one roof

While both are very good, it would be Bushmaster by a small margin

But then again Colt is better shit compared to either one of them. But that wasn't your question, was it?



there we go, thats better
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 8:54:09 AM EDT
RRA.

But I wouldn't mind having a Bushmaster either.

Hell, just get both.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 9:22:01 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/2/2005 9:23:29 AM EDT by chargedmr2]

Originally Posted By AROKIE:

Originally Posted By BucsFan1:
Bushmaster.

RRA uses Wylde chamber (huh?) V. 5.56

Chrome is option-only in RRA - std in BM

RRA is not mil-spec. I realize we aren't military, but our replacement parts are

Proprietary carry handle on many RRA products- not sure about that one

Customer Support goes to Bushy- they have absolutely everything for the AR enthusist under one roof

While both are very good, it would be Bushmaster by a small margin

But then again Colt is better shit compared to either one of them. But that wasn't your question, was it?



there we go, thats better



RRA uses 5.56 Nato Chamber for nearly all of their barrels (except for their more accurate SS barrels).

Also, Bushy is not mil-spec either, although their barrel steel is 4150 as compared to RRA's 4140.

Both are very nice rifles.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 9:24:22 AM EDT
Bushmaster

Max
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 10:07:20 AM EDT

Originally Posted By chargedmr2:

Originally Posted By AROKIE:

Originally Posted By BucsFan1:
Bushmaster.

RRA uses Wylde chamber (huh?) V. 5.56

Chrome is option-only in RRA - std in BM

RRA is not mil-spec. I realize we aren't military, but our replacement parts are

Proprietary carry handle on many RRA products- not sure about that one

Customer Support goes to Bushy- they have absolutely everything for the AR enthusist under one roof

While both are very good, it would be Bushmaster by a small margin

But then again Colt is better shit compared to either one of them. But that wasn't your question, was it?



there we go, thats better



RRA uses 5.56 Nato Chamber for nearly all of their barrels (except for their more accurate SS barrels).

Also, Bushy is not mil-spec either, although their barrel steel is 4150 as compared to RRA's 4140.

Both are very nice rifles.



5.56 can be shot out of the .223 wylde chamber with no issues. I contacte RRA on this matter. Go to eaglefirearms.net. Every RRA they sell with a 16" barrel already has chrome lining and they will bend over backwards to please a customer. I recently made a mistake and ordered the wrong upper. I sent the original back and they didn't even charge me shipping to get me the right one. The first time I ordered from them they sent the wrong stock with my lower but they paid shipping both ways and shipped me the replacement before I had to ship the wrong one back.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 10:08:06 AM EDT
Their prices area about the best as well.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 10:08:35 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/2/2005 10:09:38 AM EDT by GetDown_M4A3]
What exactly is the "Wylde" chamber? Only .223 (no 5.56)?

Never mind. Thanks SIG.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 10:17:39 AM EDT
Bushmaster is somewhat over priced. The quality has been very good for me. I have several bushy uppers and a factory lower. All work very well. No complaints. I convinced my friend, who is a bolt action only type guy, to buy one via my bushy 20". He was amazed at the 300 yard groups I can keep with it.

Bushy's accessories are over priced and I hear by rumor and word of mouth that their quality is going down since they started to do military orders. I ordered a 14" heavy bbl with a perm attached phantom 52C. They sent me a 14" 52C M4-gery instead. However, I was glad that I got the M4-gery instead. Much happier with it. So their screw up was to my benefit. So far, I like all 4 of my Bushy parts rifles.

I am building 2 rifles w/ all RRA parts on some Superior Arms lowers. I will let you know what I think of them soon. Never owned an all factory RRA, but I hear only good things about them.

Also, I have used my brother's Colt many times. I can't tell any difference between it and my Bushy, except the finish.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 10:19:12 AM EDT

Originally Posted By AROKIE:

Originally Posted By BucsFan1:
Bushmaster.

RRA uses Wylde chamber (huh?) V. 5.56

Chrome is option-only in RRA - std in BM

RRA is not mil-spec. I realize we aren't military, but our replacement parts are

Proprietary carry handle on many RRA products- not sure about that one

Customer Support goes to Bushy- they have absolutely everything for the AR enthusist under one roof

While both are very good, it would be Bushmaster by a small margin

But then again Colt is better shit compared to either one of them. But that wasn't your question, was it?



there we go, thats better



Good luck with Colt's customer service.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 1:30:01 PM EDT
If Colt would sell we lowly peons what we want (in my case, it's a M4 16" rifle, with chrome barrel), I'd give them a go. But they are only interested in HBAR type guns for civvies, apparently.

My experiences have been:

First AR was a Colt SP1. Gave zero trouble, good gun. Only thing was it was the 2 pivot pin type, not the newer push pin. I was unable to upgrade to the push pin type before the AWB, and after that expired, discovered Colt wasn't into selling me what I wanted.

So, got a Bushmaster lower, sold the Colt lower, never looked back.

Have 2 rifles now, both Bushmaster lowers. 1 is a complete Bushmaster build, 1 is 90% Bushmaster (upper receiver is RRA, as it was $60 cheaper). Both work just fine. 1 jam in 5000 rds or so, and that was mag-related.

Link Posted: 10/2/2005 3:30:23 PM EDT
RRA, best bang for the buck! Top shelf fit & finish. Couldn't be more satisfied with my 2 RRA's.
YMMV, just my $ .02


700P
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 3:53:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/2/2005 3:55:06 PM EDT by olds442tyguy]
RRA.

As for the comment that Bushmaster has more options, RRA blows them out of the water. There is no other brand that caters more to builders. Their fit and finish is among the best, most complete rifles come standard with a two stage trigger, their dealers offer the best customer service on their products, which means RRA is great to them too, and they're cheaper than most of the others for a product with equal quality (at the least).

As for 4140 vs. 4150, that almost unregisterable difference is pretty much irrelevant on a chrome lined semi auto barrel. Most dealers sell RRA products with chrome lining for no additional charge, but it's still cheaper than the others even if you have to pay for it.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 3:54:04 PM EDT
i too am stuck between a bush and RRA. im looking at the 20" standard A3. i cant decide! they are within 10 bucks of eachother so price isnt an issue. the only thing i can think of is the Bush has the chrome lining. but all i hear is RRA has a tight fit, is bush loose or something?
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 3:58:24 PM EDT
Colt. Trust me, you'll thank me later.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 4:14:40 PM EDT
Never owned a Bushie but they sure have a good reputation. I do have two RRA's and they are great. Also, RRA's service is fantastic. Great people to deal with. I think you could own either a RRA or Bushie and be well served.

Cheers,

Phil
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 4:51:09 PM EDT
The only way to tell an RRA from a Bushie, other than the obivious, is the MoS2 coating Bushmaster puts on their uppers' interior surfaces.

Other than that, they are the same. Same forging, same tolerances.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 6:13:41 PM EDT
i think the 2 stage trigger in the rock river is LIGHT YEARS ahead of bushies standard trigger.

All of you bushy guys that say RRA chrome lined barrels arent standard...blah blah blah...well most places will sell you a rock river gun with C/L for no additional charge. At almost every place I see them has the C/L included.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 6:55:46 PM EDT
i got a RRA upper on a Bushy Lower.. fits pretty tight :)
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 7:10:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By dsg2003gt:
i think the 2 stage trigger in the rock river is LIGHT YEARS ahead of bushies standard trigger.

All of you bushy guys that say RRA chrome lined barrels arent standard...blah blah blah...well most places will sell you a rock river gun with C/L for no additional charge. At almost every place I see them has the C/L included.



The only way an RRA trigger is ahead of the Bushie 2-stage is after it gets worked on by Frank...
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 7:19:20 PM EDT
drop down to the troubleshooting forum and see which name brand comes up the most.

Seems to me the quality of workmanship has dropped off ( post AWB) and quite a few rifles have been sold that are mis-assembled, loose carrier keys , improperly indexed barrels...etc.


That being the case, IMHO, you can't go by what was produced in the past when it comes to workmanship. The parts appear to be just as good, but the assembly is often poor.

Bushmaster barrels are better than RRA, but otherwise I think RRA is your best choice
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 8:10:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/2/2005 8:37:33 PM EDT by WIZZO_ARAKM14]

I'm a RRA-aholic.

I have a 20" flattop consisting of 100% RRA parts (even the Hogue grip with the RRA logo on it) as my home protection rifle right now. It has malfuntioned twice in the first 40 rounds; since then, it has been perfect to the tune of well over 1,500rds. I have another part-RRA build that has been running well so far, and I'm thinking of picking up another lower to start another build with a majority of RRA parts. I'm a believer

My brother has a Bushy 20" A2 that we have put many rounds through without too many problems, but we have kept it mostly stock, but I did put a Stag Gov't profile barrel on it so he could have the lighter barrel, bayo lug and threaded muzzle.

I like Bushy, but I love RRA

NapeSticksToKids, you have to realize that RRA doesn't offer a chrome-lined barrel in their 20" barrel yet. This may or may not affect your decision, but it is something you should know.

WIZZO
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 8:13:48 PM EDT
i personally prefer bushmaster
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 8:26:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/2/2005 8:30:29 PM EDT by Combat_Jack]
Get a Colt upper with an M16 carrier and put it on an RRA lower with a VLTOR stock. Be sure to get a standard size reciever extensionn since BM and RRA both use out of spec ones. Get an H2 buffer.

I am sick and fucking tired of hearing people tell me that Colt's are crap. I'd rather trust my life to a Colt or one of the limited production Stag uppers from the Equipment exchange. That said, RRA uses far more standard parts than BM does.

If you get the flat top, don't use the carry handle. Pick up a Troy folding rear sight. Get the chrome.

I used to take this site fairly seriously, but it is getting to be a chore.

ETA: Stake both the carrier key and the nut that holds the telestock on, they are common points of failure. On the carrier key, this is a problem with BM in particular, but Colt and their method have had problems for at least 40 years.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 8:54:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/2/2005 8:57:00 PM EDT by scottryan]

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
That said, RRA uses far more standard parts than BM does.





That statement is complete bullshit.

Considering Bushmaster uses (which RRA doesn't)...

4150 chrome lined barrels
Dry lube uppers
Mil spec fit between upper and lower at rear takedown lug
Metal trapdoors on A2 stocks
Dry lubed buffer tubes
Mil profile barrels (ever see a RRA "govt" profile barrel, they turn down their barrels differently)
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 9:00:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/2/2005 9:00:30 PM EDT by scottryan]
And as far as the two stage RRA trigger...

That has been gone over on this board atleast 3 times this past month.

It don't mean anything by having a competition trigger in a combat weapons.

It doesn't make the RRA "higher quality" simply by having a two stage trigger. I could put the same trigger in a Bushy in 30 seconds.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 9:00:05 PM EDT

Originally Posted By scottryan:

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
That said, RRA uses far more standard parts than BM does.





That statement is complete bullshit.

Considering Bushmaster uses (which RRA doesn't)...

4150 chrome lined barrels
Dry lube uppers
Mil spec fit between upper and lower at rear takedown lug
Metal trapdoors on A2 stocks
Dry lubed buffer tubes
Mil profile barrels (ever see a RRA "govt" profile barrel, they turn down their barrels differently)



I am comparing the chrome lined guns, and while we are on that topic, what about the non-standard nut on the telestock? And the fact that they will not sell M16 or shrouded carriers?
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 9:03:58 PM EDT
I own both pefer the Rock River due to trigger , finish, fit etc. Still feel that bushmaster make a excellent rifle. Just comes down to preference.
-sigadvantage-
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 9:04:38 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/2/2005 9:06:00 PM EDT by scottryan]

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:


I am comparing the chrome lined guns, and while we are on that topic, what about the non-standard nut on the telestock?




What non standard nut on the telestock? All bushys come with the current castle style.




And the fact that they will not sell M16 or shrouded carriers?


This has nothing to do with quality of materials. And a shrouded carrier doesn't mean anything anyway. The notched hammer with a unshrouded carrer is just as reliable as a smooth hammer and shrouded carrier.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 9:10:03 PM EDT
"but when they go up the likes of a colt which is better, better parts, better life, better against weather conditions"

Regarding Colt being the only one that's mil-spec... I guess someone should tell them that their pin diameters are off alittle.

Considering I have 3 pre-ban Colt's and a new RRA I'll go with the RRA which kocks my socks off.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 9:12:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/2/2005 9:13:23 PM EDT by scottryan]
The notched hammer/unshrouded carrier was the original spec for a semi AR-15 that was demanded by the ATF when Colt came out with the SP1.

Bushmaster followed this original spec when they started making AR-15s.

Link Posted: 10/2/2005 9:12:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Talyn:
......knocks my socks off.



You might want to tie your shoes a little tighter. Might solve your problem

WIZZO
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 9:19:17 PM EDT
Bushmaster=16
RRA NM =20
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 9:44:30 PM EDT

Originally Posted By scottryan:

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:


I am comparing the chrome lined guns, and while we are on that topic, what about the non-standard nut on the telestock?




What non standard nut on the telestock? All bushys come with the current castle style.




And the fact that they will not sell M16 or shrouded carriers?


This has nothing to do with quality of materials. And a shrouded carrier doesn't mean anything anyway. The notched hammer with a unshrouded carrer is just as reliable as a smooth hammer and shrouded carrier.



My wrench is not compatible with Bushmasters nut. Have they changed?



Bushy wrench.

I like my carriers nad buffers heavy. Makes them run smoother. The shrouded carriers can't lock up, ever. I have had it happen, and it isn't fun.

I am not addressing quality of materials, I am addressing features which contribute to reliability, longevity and ease of maintenance.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 10:44:38 PM EDT
teh recent bushmaster i bought came with a full circle, shrouded firing pin carrier and i use the same castle wrench on both my rra stock and the bushie one.
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 2:09:12 AM EDT
I only know RRA and cannot say enough good things about my Elite and its quality. Its operated perfectly since day one.
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 5:08:31 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/3/2005 7:10:23 AM EDT by scottryan]

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:

Originally Posted By scottryan:

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:


I am comparing the chrome lined guns, and while we are on that topic, what about the non-standard nut on the telestock?




What non standard nut on the telestock? All bushys come with the current castle style.




And the fact that they will not sell M16 or shrouded carriers?


This has nothing to do with quality of materials. And a shrouded carrier doesn't mean anything anyway. The notched hammer with a unshrouded carrer is just as reliable as a smooth hammer and shrouded carrier.



My wrench is not compatible with Bushmasters nut. Have they changed?

www.bushmaster.com/shopping/gunsmith/Images/223-telewrench2.jpg

Bushy wrench.

I like my carriers nad buffers heavy. Makes them run smoother. The shrouded carriers can't lock up, ever. I have had it happen, and it isn't fun.

I am not addressing quality of materials, I am addressing features which contribute to reliability, longevity and ease of maintenance.



So 4150 chrome lined barrels, dry lube, etc, do not contribute to reliability, longevity, and ease of maitenance?

4150 steel is significantly better and more expensive than 4140. It will outlast a 4140 barrel by a significant amount (longevity).

People think the .1% of carbon difference between the two steels doesn't make a substaintial difference. They hear the term ".1%" and think it is a small difference. They are completely ignorant of metalurgy. If all these steels are the "same" then why do steel makers make 4130, 4140, 4150, etc... if they can all be used interchangibly.

Do you even know why dry lube is put inside the receivers/buffer tubes?

So I am still waiting for you to post hard facts about how the RRA is easier to maintain (its the same gun) and has more mil spec features than the Bushy.

Link Posted: 10/3/2005 5:48:20 AM EDT
Yay, I really was wondering this and was hoping someone would finally bring up the topic.

The answer is clear - RRA - they must be right? They do have a .gov contract afterall. Makes them equal to Colt.
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