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Posted: 10/17/2016 11:07:59 AM EDT
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Posted: 10/17/2016 11:37:36 AM EDT
[#1]
Wonder what the velocity could've been? I asked Hornady they said that bullet should expand down to 1800 but I'd expect your gun to be over that with that load.
Any plans of ever adding a 16" .300blk? |
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Posted: 10/17/2016 11:40:51 AM EDT
[#2]
Nah. No point to it. Unless someone uses a slow powder intended for real rifles, .300 BLK doesn't really gain much velocity in 16" barrels.
I forget who sent it to me. Hopefully they can chime in with the velocity. In any case, I'll add the velocity to the video description whenever I get to the range again. |
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Posted: 10/17/2016 11:42:17 AM EDT
[#3]
that sucks
ETA: As much as we love 300BLK for the selection of bullets, we forget these bullets are generally made to be launched from 308, 30-06, etc.. cases, and don't perform at BLK velocities. |
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Posted: 10/17/2016 11:47:25 AM EDT
[#4]
I am the guy who sent you the rounds. Thank you for testing it! I'm disappointed, of course, but not by anything you could have done.
The testing data that the company provides is all based on 16" barrels they seem to claim. And for any other 'rifle' round this would be fine, but let's face it... 300 Blackout platforms are mostly built on 7.5" to 11" barrels (either in pistol or SBR builds). https://www.freedommunitions.com/ammunition/rifle/300-aac-blackout/300-blackout-110-gr-v-max-new.html "DETAILS Hornady® V-Max® bullet loaded by Freedom Munitions. Hornady® V-Max™ Rifle Bullets are designed specifically for varmint and predator hunting. The bullet’s polymer tip aids in aerodynamics to flatten trajectories, reduce wind drift to ensure maximum long-range accuracy. The polymer tip pushes back into lead core upon impact for rapid and devastating expansion, even at ultra long-range, when bullet strikes target at lower than normal velocity. You must use a suppressed barrel to achieve the same results. These ballistics were derived from an 16" barrel. Super Sonic: 110gr V-Max® @1785fps=773 lbs" |
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Posted: 10/17/2016 11:51:58 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
that sucks ETA: As much as we love 300BLK for the selection of bullets, we forget these bullets are generally made to be launched from 308, 30-06, etc.. cases, and don't perform at BLK velocities. I think you hit the nail on the head, here, and I will be much more careful of ammunition choices in the future. |
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Posted: 10/17/2016 11:54:46 AM EDT
[#6]
Okay, that fills in some blanks. Thank you. This would be presumably a bit slower, but not too much slower, from an 8" barrel, assuming they used powder appropriate to .300 BLK. That's already on the edge of the performance envelope for this bullet. A bit disappointing because I would expect that you could safely get at least 2,100 fps from this bullet with the right powder in an 8" barrel.
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Posted: 10/17/2016 11:55:01 AM EDT
[#7]
I dont know that I agree with that. The BLK gains alot in a longer barrel just like most all rounds do. I'd estimate your velocity a bit under 2000 with the 8", but in a 16" those Vmax are doing 2400+ which keeps it above threshold pretty far out there.
500fps from a 16 to an 8" 300blk is pretty damn close to the velocity difference between its 5.56 counterpart. A 16" with M193 nets around 3000. An 8", 2400. So 600 vs 500. Any supersonic round will gain FPS with barrel length to an extent. I'll see if I can find this .pdf on BLK from Brassfetcher. |
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Posted: 10/17/2016 11:57:50 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Okay, that fills in some blanks. Thank you. This would be presumably a bit slower, but not too much slower, from an 8" barrel, assuming they used powder appropriate to .300 BLK. That's already on the edge of the performance envelope for this bullet. A bit disappointing because I would expect that you could safely get at least 2,100 fps from this bullet with the right powder in an 8" barrel. We need that chronograph data from the other rounds - with your 10.5" barrel (or did you write you had an 8" in the reply?) - to really know. |
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Posted: 10/17/2016 12:05:35 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I dont know that I agree with that. The BLK gains alot in a longer barrel just like most all rounds do. I'd estimate your velocity a bit under 2000 with the 8", but in a 16" those Vmax are doing 2400+ which keeps it above threshold pretty far out there. 500fps from a 16 to an 8" 300blk is pretty damn close to the velocity difference between its 5.56 counterpart. A 16" with M193 nets around 3000. An 8", 2400. So 600 vs 500. Any supersonic round will gain FPS with barrel length to an extent. I'll see if I can find this .pdf on BLK from Brassfetcher. Sorry, what I mean is that, when .300 is loaded with fast powders (magnum pistol powder) as it was designed, it doesn't gain nearly as much from a longer barrel as one might expect. I didn't mean to imply that it doesn't gain anything. |
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Posted: 10/17/2016 12:06:19 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
We need that chronograph data from the other rounds - with your 10.5" barrel (or did you write you had an 8" in the reply?) - to really know. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Okay, that fills in some blanks. Thank you. This would be presumably a bit slower, but not too much slower, from an 8" barrel, assuming they used powder appropriate to .300 BLK. That's already on the edge of the performance envelope for this bullet. A bit disappointing because I would expect that you could safely get at least 2,100 fps from this bullet with the right powder in an 8" barrel. We need that chronograph data from the other rounds - with your 10.5" barrel (or did you write you had an 8" in the reply?) - to really know. Agreed. I'll update this OP with 8" chronograph data when I can get to the range. |
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Posted: 10/17/2016 12:20:40 PM EDT
[#11]
Thank you for doing this review as I was just about to buy some of this for home defense. You saved me some money at the very least. |
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Posted: 10/17/2016 12:22:41 PM EDT
[#12]
Thank The_Floridian for providing the ammo.
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Posted: 10/17/2016 4:50:32 PM EDT
[#13]
This my own picture of the box. Feel free to hot-link the image in the description of the YouTube video if you wish.
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Posted: 10/17/2016 5:00:32 PM EDT
[#14]
Hornady factory ammo lists the following velocities from a 16" barrel so that Freedom load seems off. My 150gr FMJ load is going faster than their 110gr velocities.
MV - 2375 50yds - 2232 100yds - 2094 150yds - 1939 200yds - 1833 250yds - 1711 300yds - 1596 |
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Posted: 10/17/2016 5:01:52 PM EDT
[#15]
Yeah, I'm sure they're just doing everything they can to keep cost down. Disappointing.
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Posted: 10/17/2016 5:12:41 PM EDT
[#16]
The Hornady load is quite warm. I wound up driving over to Grand Island one day a couple years ago to return my ammo as it was piercing primers in my factory 9" AAC MPW upper.
They said they were right at max pressure and were going to switch primers and reduce the charge slightly to be safe. They replaced my boxes and gave me an extra for my troubles. |
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Posted: 10/17/2016 6:50:31 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yeah, I'm sure they're just doing everything they can to keep cost down. Disappointing. That and Freedom probably has so much variation in their process, they want to download to avoid KBs. Another reason I avoid them. |
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Posted: 10/17/2016 9:27:56 PM EDT
[#18]
"Your inquiry has been forwarded to our Ballistics and Technical Specialists. Please expect a response within 2-3 business days.
Thank you for your email! The Freedom Munitions Team Howell Munitions & Technology, Inc. | Freedom Munitions | X-Treme Bullets" 
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Posted: 10/17/2016 10:11:49 PM EDT
[#19]
Good info! I've loaded some for my own gun. In a 16" bbl I was getting around 2200 FPS. I might have to crono a few from my 10.5" upper to see. Definitely has me thinking twice on them though. I've had great success with the Nosler 125 BT's at lower velocities, and may just switch to the Barnes 110's after this video.
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Posted: 10/26/2016 12:30:52 AM EDT
[#20]
The reply from Freedom Munitions was that the code was from "earlier in the year" - thing is that it really isn't from that long ago.
I ordered them July 6th. "Earlier this year I changed the load and the 110 VMax should be near 2200 fps at this time." "That happened to pre-date the increase in velocity level by about a month, so it is loaded to a nominal 1800 fps." I take it that it means they only just now started loading them to 2200 fps. Thing is - it isn't me who is going to buy off of them again three months later and hope it's all fixed. |
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Posted: 10/26/2016 10:18:31 AM EDT
[#21]
Wonder if I could get them to send me some.
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Posted: 11/1/2016 6:28:35 PM EDT
[#22]
Freedom munitions?? Ivd had allot of shit rounds from them. Hand load your own rounds.
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Posted: 11/2/2016 8:18:32 AM EDT
[#23]
I have some loaded 110 Vmax over 19.5gr H110 but don't know if I can ship it legally. All out of projos.
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Posted: 11/2/2016 11:00:37 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have some loaded 110 Vmax over 19.5gr H110 but don't know if I can ship it legally. All out of projos. I think his channel caters more to what most of us could buy on the market ... but then again it makes sense to test the bullets in some fashion when pushed at an acceptable speed. I could hand over a few more if he wants to do a side-by-side comparison, but I believe he still has a few left of what I gave. |
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Posted: 11/2/2016 11:18:58 AM EDT
[#25]
I'd say if you don't handload the only thing worth buying from them is range ammo and stuff for punching holes in paper but for home defense and hunting rounds go with a more reputable dealer like winchester or hornady.
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Posted: 11/3/2016 7:04:19 PM EDT
[#26]
That's interesting considering Brassfetcher had more successful results using Hornady vmax 110gr @ 2,220 fps.
110Gr Vmax |
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Posted: 11/3/2016 7:12:37 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
that sucks ETA: As much as we love 300BLK for the selection of bullets, we forget these bullets are generally made to be launched from 308, 30-06, etc.. cases, and don't perform at BLK velocities. Varmint .308 bullets at .308 velocities fragment/explode. Varmint .308 bullets at 300 BO velocities perform quite well in most circumstances. They don't fragment, they expand and cause a lot of tissue damage and look similar to 5.56 75+gr otm rounds up close. Hornady vmax 110gr in 300 BO 
5.56 77gr otm 
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Posted: 11/3/2016 7:31:59 PM EDT
[#28]
bluefalcon,
For your next video series you should do a gel test of bullets at muzzle, 100, 200 and 300 yards. Use the 110gr Vmax at muzzle from a .308, load up slower .308 for 200 yards and use a 300BO for 300 yards Using my Ballistic AE app.. Hornady Vmax 110gr .308 @ 59 degrees F, 0ft altitude Muzzle 3100 fps 100 yards - 2775 fps 200 yards - 2463 fps 300 yards - 2171 fps You already have gel data for 2,171 but try 2463 and 2775 fps. Load up some reduced loads. Do the same for heavier otm bullets like 175gr and 150grain and compare the damage at various distances. It seems most gel tests are at 10-15 feet. How about further out? You can use your 300 BO for the reduced loads. |
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Posted: 11/4/2016 10:26:27 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think his channel caters more to what most of us could buy on the market ... but then again it makes sense to test the bullets in some fashion when pushed at an acceptable speed. I could hand over a few more if he wants to do a side-by-side comparison, but I believe he still has a few left of what I gave. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I have some loaded 110 Vmax over 19.5gr H110 but don't know if I can ship it legally. All out of projos. I think his channel caters more to what most of us could buy on the market ... but then again it makes sense to test the bullets in some fashion when pushed at an acceptable speed. I could hand over a few more if he wants to do a side-by-side comparison, but I believe he still has a few left of what I gave. I test hand loads occasionally, but yeah, I do mostly factory loads. I don't have .300 AAC dies yet but I plan to get some soon. |
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Posted: 11/4/2016 10:33:12 AM EDT
[#30]
Doing gel tests farther out is a real pain in the ass. It means lugging a table, cameras, and a 50 lb block of gel out to that distance and back. At the range I use, that means doing it up and down hills and doing it quickly while other people wait and trusting strangers not to shoot at my stuff. It's also complicated because the path of the shot needs to align with the block in three dimensions. It isn't enough to hit the right place on the face of the block, the angle has to be such that the bullet stays inside the block. I screw that part up at ten feet sometimes.
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Posted: 11/4/2016 1:21:50 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Doing gel tests farther out is a real pain in the ass. It means lugging a table, cameras, and a 50 lb block of gel out to that distance and back. At the range I use, that means doing it up and down hills and doing it quickly while other people wait and trusting strangers not to shoot at my stuff. It's also complicated because the path of the shot needs to align with the block in three dimensions. It isn't enough to hit the right place on the face of the block, the angle has to be such that the bullet stays inside the block. I screw that part up at ten feet sometimes. You can reload at reduced pressures. Lots of load data out there to simulate 100-300 yards. I'd like to see 5.56 bonded rounds car door penetrations with a gel block at simulated ranges of 200+ yards. Take a steel plate of similar gauge and place it in front of ballistic gel. Load down the round to what is at the muzzle would be the velocity of a max factory round at 200 yards. Measure expansion in gel post car door penetration. Nobody really does that on YouTube. It's all factory/max loads at 15 feet. What will bullets do when people hide behind common things in shootouts? Outside of 100 yards? That would be a great YouTube channel. You are doing great work now and I've looked up gel tests on YouTube and your channel has covered a lot, just a suggestion to expand on tests that's not on YouTube. |
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Posted: 11/4/2016 1:50:26 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You can reload at reduced pressures. Lots of load data out there to simulate 100-300 yards. I'd like to see 5.56 bonded rounds car door penetrations with a gel block at simulated ranges of 200+ yards. Take a steel plate of similar gauge and place it in front of ballistic gel. Load down the round to what is at the muzzle would be the velocity of a max factory round at 200 yards. Measure expansion in gel post car door penetration. Nobody really does that on YouTube. It's all factory/max loads at 15 feet. What will bullets do when people hide behind common things in shootouts? Outside of 100 yards? That would be a great YouTube channel. You are doing great work now and I've looked up gel tests on YouTube and your channel has covered a lot, just a suggestion to expand on tests that's not on YouTube. Eric and Chad have done it, and/or tried it, at closer ranges multiple times. The issue or challenge is the deflection once bullets hit inner workings of car doors, or go through multiples of two layers of drywall and insulation, etc. I've never seen a Youtube channel that had enough gel blocks to account for all the directions the pieces can go. Most tests I've seen, across different channels, usually don't catch most of the rounds shot through commonly-hid-behind objects. I'd guess that if you're shooting at people who are hiding behind objects at 100 yards or more, you're in a war zone, and you're using solid ball ammo. There's not much expansion expected of it. |
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Posted: 11/4/2016 5:18:55 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Eric and Chad have done it, and/or tried it, at closer ranges multiple times. The issue or challenge is the deflection once bullets hit inner workings of car doors, or go through multiples of two layers of drywall and insulation, etc. I've never seen a Youtube channel that had enough gel blocks to account for all the directions the pieces can go. Most tests I've seen, across different channels, usually don't catch most of the rounds shot through commonly-hid-behind objects. I'd guess that if you're shooting at people who are hiding behind objects at 100 yards or more, you're in a war zone, and you're using solid ball ammo. There's not much expansion expected of it. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
You can reload at reduced pressures. Lots of load data out there to simulate 100-300 yards. I'd like to see 5.56 bonded rounds car door penetrations with a gel block at simulated ranges of 200+ yards. Take a steel plate of similar gauge and place it in front of ballistic gel. Load down the round to what is at the muzzle would be the velocity of a max factory round at 200 yards. Measure expansion in gel post car door penetration. Nobody really does that on YouTube. It's all factory/max loads at 15 feet. What will bullets do when people hide behind common things in shootouts? Outside of 100 yards? That would be a great YouTube channel. You are doing great work now and I've looked up gel tests on YouTube and your channel has covered a lot, just a suggestion to expand on tests that's not on YouTube. Eric and Chad have done it, and/or tried it, at closer ranges multiple times. The issue or challenge is the deflection once bullets hit inner workings of car doors, or go through multiples of two layers of drywall and insulation, etc. I've never seen a Youtube channel that had enough gel blocks to account for all the directions the pieces can go. Most tests I've seen, across different channels, usually don't catch most of the rounds shot through commonly-hid-behind objects. I'd guess that if you're shooting at people who are hiding behind objects at 100 yards or more, you're in a war zone, and you're using solid ball ammo. There's not much expansion expected of it. Thin barriers cause rounds to destabilize and tumble. FMJ, bonded etc...that would be great for testing. |
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