AR Sponsor
[ARCHIVED THREAD] - . (Page 1 of 4)
Posted: 9/13/2006 3:52:09 AM EDT
|
Edited to not offend the loosers here that find it mandatory to use foul language on the internet... |
|
The DD lite rail is nothing like the Larue, if you are looking for a thread regarding standard DD & LT rails, there have certainly been a bunch of them. DD M4 & LT rail similarities 1. Both use a threaded locking collar which give an interrupted rail (gap) across the upper receiver to rail bridge. 2. Roughly similar in overall appearance. 3. Both are heavy duty rails that have gotten remarkable positive feedback from users. Differences 1. Larue is heavier than Daniel Defense, with DD being the lightest rail on the market. 2. Daniel Defense uses an oval shape to the rail, which slims it out from side to side. Larue keeps more of a circle profile to their rail when viewed from in directly in front. 3. Larue costs less than Daniel Defense. 4. Daniel Defense welds the rail to the threaded attachment, with the welds being visible. Larue uses cold bonding/ glue to fasten their threaded portion unless something has recently changed, with the adhesive not usually being visible. Both appear to hold up well in comments here, which included duty weapons and hard training from some users. 5. Larue uses an additional piece for retention, with possible pros and cons that have been discussed in other threads. Properly installed neither rail appears to have issues. 6. Older rails from both companies were a little rougher than current production based on comments from people here. All rails I've seen have been quite nicely machined. There have been no complaints, and a lot of praise toward each regarding machining methods, which is appropriate as they aren't cheap. 7. LT has a QD hole in the rear portion of the rail closest to the receiver for mounting a 2 or 3 point sling. DD does not. If you run a sling from this position, it is already there for you. If not, its just a hole, but mounts can be used anywhere along the rail. The QD doesn't take up much room, so it isn't like you loose useful rail space. There may be a few things I've overlooked as I head out the door, but it comes down to what you can afford, whether weight is an issue, and what profile you like. Both are good rails. Based on the above, I carry DD rails on all my duty and training weapons. For those who were wondering, I've used DD rails for longer than I've been a DD dealer. I'll also point out that my duty and training weapons now wear DD Lite rails, which as I commented in the start, are in a different league, and would be an unfair comparison. |
|
okay normally i'm not much one to flame a guy for not using the search button but holy fuckin shit we just had this thread a couple days ago...and with a post count and join date such as the OP i would have thought he woulda known anyhow i'll try to find the link ETA: Larue vs. DD here it is but it's locked...so be prepared to handle the can you just opened |
hehe i agree sticks post above summed it up pretty well honestly it's about like grips/gear/stocks it's whatever you prefer and which one works best for you that said from everything i've read and heard you can't go wrong with either |
Lancelot, I love ya man, but why did you lock that other thread ? I'm asking because I'm having to ask myself if I should be taking the time out (time is at a premium these days) to post on this forum, only to see all my comments go down the drain when the thread gets locked and sh#t-canned. Am I potentially just wasting my time every time I hit on the ol' ARFCOM keyboard? And shucks, for that matter, does anyone even want to hear what my thoughts really are ? Maybe they don't. And while I'm at it, was I too blunt in that "locked" thread referenced above ? I even got IMs from folks that were thinking that I stomped when they thought I should have been tip-toeing. What say ye ? Let me know... Mark LaRue www.laruetactical.com |
|
Unfortunately for 99% of us, we can't try out both on our rifles- that would be almost impossible so you end up having to listen to what others say. My opinion is you should go with whichever you thinks looks better unless you like the QD mount point of the LaRue because otherwise they appear to be the same. I happen to have a DD rail and bought their rail mounted piece that provides a QD wherever you want it and I just so happened to place it right where Mark puts his. Is a pic in order? What would a thread be without pics, huh? 
|
|
I run a DD 7.0 rail on my 9mm M16. Why? It fit the Trident 9 inside, and I am running a 5" barrel. I run a LaRue 13.2 on my AR-10. I believe the length is better than the 14.0 on a 16" barrel, and they were out pretty quick with the new product when I needed it. I run KAC RAS II's on my other carbines because I hate mucking with the factory gas system on my uppers right from the factory. I have a LaRue 7.0 sitting in wait for my CQBR build with a Noveske 10.3" barrel, though I may try and trade for a 9" rail from DD or LaRue. My point? I'm glad you asked.... All the rails currently on the market are very close to being "equals". Each one may offer a special "advantage" over the other, but in the end they FF the barrel through various methods and they provide a stable platform for mounting gear. I would/will buy more DD, LaRue, and KAC products as a I need them. You all can do whatever you like.  Mark: I read what you type & LOVE your products, but sometimes it's best to leave gear whores to their own devices. 
|
|
I have a KAC FF, DD, and Larue DD is lightest, oval shaped, looks lowest in quality (I said looks, it has some weld marks and stuff. Works great, it just isnt as pretty as others, IMO) KAC, larger round shape, well finished Larue, smaller and round, well finished. All are equally good in my opinion. Flip a coin.  
|
|
IMO the railed forend market changed with the introduction of the DD Lite rail series. The bolt up and alignement of the rail is super easy for butterfingers like myself and rock solid. Now with VLTOR putting out the whole shebang, the market may change again, depends on price though. We may never see the average shooter sporting a "MRP" like unit if the price does not come down. For now, I like the DD LITE rail setup. The welded versus bonded also helps ease any worriies about the thing coming apart in the field, although I have yet to hear of a LT rail coming apart either. |
KAC and DD have identical weld marks. DD has better anodisation color as KAC is often purple. I dont see how you could get a KAC being better in looks to a DD when it is in fact not as attractive with identical weld marks. 
|
My DDs weld marks stick up, my KACs have been made level with the rest of the rail. It makes the KAC look better to ME. The weld marks are not identical. ETA better pic Pic: 
|
Hmm, maybe I got lucky with mine or something, oh well. As for them being a different color, look at the poor quality of the color on the DD, they are green or something!!!!
|
What's the barrel length on the KAC FF RAS equipped one? |
Right, that wouldnt be me. I ligitimately had no idea this had been such an issue before.... I did a search as rudely mentioned before, but must have had the wrong community selected. I have not intentionally tried to stir anything up here... I just was asking a question. I have come to learn that even a question asked here can lead to a lot of grief.... I do appreciate those that took the time to post answers, and links to the other threads. I should have known the info was here, and just searched harder.... |
Mr. Larue, i am really new to this and i think it is way cool that you take time to post here. i dont make a lot of money and i have to buy the right things the first time, so rightous talk is important. like in the thread that was locked, i thought it was because i had asked Mr. PaulE about he saying stuff about Larue rail handguards, i got like a lot of messages and emails from people that told me he is just some sales man and does not know what he is talking about. i want to get my advise from someone that knows what they are talking about. thank you sir! |
Okay BA, You had me there 'til you dissed my man PaulE. Paul is the salt of the earth and 1000 times more than just a "salesman". He and Wes Grant are the SE corner pillars of this place :-) I know, I know, you are new to this board...but word your posts carefully and speak from what you know to be truths...and you'll do fine. And ol' Paul is a sensible guy and he's right now just sittin' up there and grinnin' in ol' Tennessee. Mark LaRue www.laruetactical.com ETA - Aw heck, it would not be fair if I didn't tell you that the guys at MSTN (Paul and Wes) are one of LaRue Tactical's very first and few dealers...they were one of the first two we went with...them and G&R Tactical (Grant and Roxeanne Timberlake). Time has shown that to have been a very wise move. :-) |
Mr. Larue, i am sorry i didnt know that Mr. Paul worked for you, but like lots of people told me that what he said was wrong? yes i am new, but not dumb, and i have seen that candor and disambiguation are hard to find in the texture of a lot of the AR forums. those that do not ask must settle. |
Don't sweat it BA. I had some of that same bunch IM me and call me everything but an Irishman, for what I said over on that same thread...it's water off a ducks ass. The thin-skinners are the ones that squeal the loudest about the least. :-) M. LaRue PS. Paul doesn't work for LT per se, he and Wes have MSTN...they are a well-known and much-respected ARFCOM-country store. ML. |
Mr. Larue, now i am really confused he that you rail hand guards are not glued together, but several people say otherwise, i even read on here a post by someone from Larue Tactical that the blue stuff around the joint on some of them is the glue? i was sent a couple of pictures of rail hand guards that show the "glue" and it looks like a methacrylate SA (i am working on my ME!). so what is the real story? |
BA, Dammit, this is getting fun. It's nice to know what the opposing team does behind the scenes. To answer your question...in as non-compromising manner IP-wise as I can - I will say that, yes, we do use green-loctite, but only as a sealant between two parts...to keep out salt-water (because there are some guys that love to go there). And oh yeah, green loctite is like concrete. Ever try to get two-pieces GL'd apart? Anyhow, that is just a small part as to why our handguards are absolutely bomb-proof. It's too bad that I have to be so close-mouthed about the way we do things here (especially since you are a budding ME), because the rest of our design is mechanical and a pain-in-the-ass, but works like a charm. No welds to break, no welds to screw with squareness, no welds to have to re-heat-treat in hopes of getting some sort of tensile strength back, (for reference, google-up welding aluminum). Our LT guys here think what we do is manufacturing nirvana ... I wouldn't go that far. Anyhow, I hope I have covertly answered your question and allayed your worries about the ARFCOM undergrounders - (think "Omega Man" mutants...(BTW, it's a great old-school movie)). And always think DFM - Design For Manufacturing. ML |
Mr. Larue, i have Omega Man on DVD, one of the best! so who on arfcom is Matthias? b |
Huh? Anyway, seems like this thread turned to shit. I apologize, as I really didnt know this was such an issue. I have asked for it to be locked because I see it going downhill quickly. Maybe I should just get a Knights Armament system.... hahaha.. that was a joke to lighten the mood here people.. please dont throw stones!  |
zak2727, Come on now, 560 posts with no search-knowledge and/or capability ? HOLY COW !!! Lock this ? Did you not read my comments in here about locking threads ? Mark LaRue Added - Holy cow. and then edited spelling per Zak. :-) |
Isnt it spelled Holy Cow?
|
|
After reading the dozen or so IM's I got about this thread this morning, I have decided to leave it alone for the time being. Staff agrees. We're not here to lock every thread or be the post Nazi's. But we do want to cut down on the amount of insults, personal attacks that sometimes occur here. So stay on topic. This is not a topic about me, PaulE, or suppressors. If you have a suppressor question take it to that forum. This is a technical forum, not a BS forum. If you want an answer to a technical question ask it. You may or may not get the answer you seek. If you wnat to insult someone, go away. If you have an off topic question to ask a poster, take it to IM or email. I am quite sure that how the LaRue stuff is made is a trade secret. They can't tell you the whole story for fear the competition would steal their intellectual property. DD is probably the same way. At this point I suspect that exactly how the thing is made will never be revealed to us. How it is used, installed, or tested for toughness is still be fair game. Until and unless LaRue Tactical tells us exactly how the things are made, the rest is speculation. So stay on topic, and off the other guys back. |
|
Lancelot, thanks from me too. :-) Oh, and Stickman, thanks for your fine forensic analysis and comparison. I do wish you would have pointed out to the readers that they could have a proprietary LaRue "Never-Loosen" handguard plus one out of a selection of numerous proprietary LaRue mounts for about the same money as the other product in your comparison sells for, you know, the one that is in a "completely different league that is totally beyond comparison". yeah, that one. And I say again, you can drop a half a dozen ounces just by taking a leak and so we here at LT do not agree with "over-skeletonizing" crucial pieces of kit just to win feather-weight contests by a couple ounces. Hope this clears up any questions you may still have. Additionally, I do believe it to be extremely unethical for someone with a financial interest in a certain product, to be openly spouting off about a competing product which they do not offer and have little or no experience with. That should be left to the many members here, those that fit the bill of disinterested parties, but with experience with both products, who can give an informed opinion to help others make buying decisions. Rant now over. V/R Mark LaRue ETA - Stickman, do the guys over at Rainier even know what you are doing and saying ? |
[ARCHIVED THREAD] - . (Page 1 of 4)
AR Sponsor