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Originally Posted By spyderboy03: It might be the sonic crack, but I notice a pretty big difference in loudness between supers and subs with my Enticer S. Not so much with my Resonator K. That said, I am on the supers for HD and subs for fun range time train. I'm wanting to give the SUB-X 190gr a try. From Hornady's description of projectile expansion @ extreme low velocity they look promising for HD. Plus the fact quiet. I'd hope the threat knock down & out power with them at home defense distance (inside the house) of a max of ~ 70ft would still work. But who knows, I'll search the BoobTube for gel tests. |
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I would not run any subs as a first choice for HD unless you are far more likely to shoot a 4 legged critter instead of a bipedal. If a 4 legged small critter, the 190's might be a good choice given their "cheaper" cost and easier access. But as far as expansion goes, they at the bottom of the list compared to Lehigh, Maker and Discreet Ballistics. Those three expand big, and are all copper rounds , but they are much more expensive. The Makers you basically have to load yourself, their loaded ammo has been vaporwear for years. My HD weapon is a 9" 300blk loaded with Hornady Black 110gr Vmax. Underwood loaded 110gr Varmageddon by Nosler is another good one for HD. If you desire more penetration/barrier blindness, you can always rock the gold standard Barnes 110gr Tac-tx. Don't forget PSA/AAC now offers 110gr Sabre Black Tips, which is basically 110gr V-max with a hair thicker jacket. I just placed an order for PSA/AAC's 115gr JHP, which are actually Sierra's Varminter round to test on IIIa. If you want to shake things up and keep folks off balance, there is always Lehigh's 115gr Controlled Chaos. |
New 300 BLK PMAGS just arrived, MOE SL-M buttstock ordered. Even if it doesn't collapse any shorter on the mil-spec std length RE, it looks good to me.  Plus, it's a tad lighter than the SL-K.Why aren't mfg's making shorter tubes to take advantage of these stubby stocks? Look like a lost opportunity to me. And stubby buffers & appropriate springs too. Every one and their brother is doing short / PDW setups. Magpul, are you listening? I know folders are all the rage, but someone besides me has to have a "want" for these... Carry on. |
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Originally Posted By panthermark: I would not run any subs as a first choice for HD unless you are far more likely to shoot a 4 legged critter instead of a bipedal. If a 4 legged small critter, the 190's might be a good choice given their "cheaper" cost and easier access. But as far as expansion goes, they at the bottom of the list compared to Lehigh, Maker and Discreet Ballistics. Those three expand big, and are all copper rounds , but they are much more expensive. The Makers you basically have to load yourself, their loaded ammo has been vaporwear for years. My HD weapon is a 9" 300blk loaded with Hornady Black 110gr Vmax. Underwood loaded 110gr Varmageddon by Nosler is another good one for HD. If you desire more penetration/barrier blindness, you can always rock the gold standard Barnes 110gr Tac-tx. Don't forget PSA/AAC now offers 110gr Sabre Black Tips, which is basically 110gr V-max with a hair thicker jacket. I just placed an order for PSA/AAC's 115gr JHP, which are actually Sierra's Varminter round to test on IIIa. If you want to shake things up and keep folks off balance, there is always Lehigh's 115gr Controlled Chaos. All great info panthermark. But, the 190gr SUB-X wasn't cheap at all. Almost $2/rnd. I'll certainly take your info at heart, as it sounds as though you know whats what. I don't reload, so factory stuff it is for me. |
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Well, just got off the phone with Rugged. Big Elephant in the room... NO SUPERS with the Obsidian 9. Period. Travis from Rugged stated the added pressure may very well blow the can apart. I kinda had that thought in my mind when dreaming this build up. So, unless I decide to get another stamp, i.e. true rifle 30 Cal suppressor.. I need to stick with subs. Oh well |
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Originally Posted By MackDaddy1962: New 300 BLK PMAGS just arrived, MOE SL-M buttstock ordered. Even if it doesn't collapse any shorter on the mil-spec std length RE, it looks good to me. Plus, it's a tad lighter than the SL-K.Why aren't mfg's making shorter tubes to take advantage of these stubby stocks? Look like a lost opportunity to me. And stubby buffers & appropriate springs too. Every one and their brother is doing short / PDW setups. Magpul, are you listening? I know folders are all the rage, but someone besides me has to have a "want" for these... Carry on. They do, let me introduce you to the KAK mini-milspec buffer tube. SL-M fully collapsed and locked in flush with the castle nut.  https://kakindustry.com/ar15-mini-milspec-buffer-tube-kit-carbine/ |
Straight outta Andrews mouth. Super Sonic 300 BO FTW, hands down. DAMN IT! Now I'm going to look at 30 Cal cans..  I truly didn't research this caliber much. Certainly not what the super / sub differences were in a defense weapon. Learn something new everyday. BoobTube Gel Test |
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| I first got a YHM Resonator K because cheap, short, and light. I wanted to knock the edge off if the HD situation occurred. I was pretty happy with it until I tried subs and almost couldn't tell the difference from supers. The desire to get a better can came along. The Diligent Defense Enticer S was still cheap and had WAY better numbers at Pew Science. They make a Ti version that's about $200 more than mine, but I didn't feel like spending it, plus it has a more reduced firing schedule that the steel version. It is WAY quieter with supers and there is big difference with subs now. There are a lot of good options out there these days, plus you can eat some length over the barrel with this: https://www.ar15.com/forums/Armory/Recessed-Plan-B-Flash-Hider-Minimize-the-GAP/20-552762/ |
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Great info Spyderboy03, thanks for all that. New Rugged fixed piston spacer, Streamlight TLR RM-1 WML, also decided on a new style Arisaka finger grip. And, swapped back to Magpul MOE-K2 pistol grip. Now @ 6lb 11oz with empty 20rnd mag.   
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Well, not only does KAK offer the sweet short buffer tube setup for the MOE SL-M stock, but low and behold the RAILS! Wow, I never knew of them. Did a bunch of research, seems like they're a solid option for an MLOK rail at an unbelievable price. I ordered the 7.2" version with aluminum barrel nut. With "tacticool" coupon code under $100 shipped. Damn, that's cheap. This will give me a boatload more mount options for the WML. As it is now on the Geissele MK4 it's cramped. If only the G rail was an MK8.. oh well. I could ditch the irons and mount the WML @ 12:00 but really don't want to. I hope the KAK rail is as nice as everyone says, we shall see. Kinda geeked..
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Originally Posted By MackDaddy1962: Well, not only does KAK offer the sweet short buffer tube setup for the MOE SL-M stock, but low and behold the RAILS! Wow, I never knew of them. Did a bunch of research, seems like they're a solid option for an MLOK rail at an unbelievable price. I ordered the 7.2" version with aluminum barrel nut. With "tacticool" coupon code under $100 shipped. Damn, that's cheap. This will give me a boatload more mount options for the WML. As it is now on the Geissele MK4 it's cramped. If only the G rail was an MK8.. oh well. I could ditch the irons and mount the WML @ 12:00 but really don't want to. I hope the KAK rail is as nice as everyone says, we shall see. Kinda geeked.. |
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Originally Posted By spyderboy03: There was a 7" DDC MK8 on the EE or tacswap recently. There is also the sale next week at Geissele, but who knows if blems or 7" rails will be part of it. Anywho, interested to see what you think of the KAK rail! G 7's are nice, but I'm willing to see what the KAK brings to the table. Especially for the $$$. I also see CMT's offering, but a little short and not as much full MLOK as I'd like. Also stumbled on a 7" MLOK from BKings Firearms for a song in case anyone is looking |
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Originally Posted By spyderboy03: I had that CMT rail for minute. They are decent quality, but I've had a couple rotate ever so slightly and only have G rails now. Good to know. I'm with you, I've only got G rails on my builds. I've had no issues at all with them, but with this build I'm willing to try the KAK. I hope it's a tad lighter too.. And, just for reference in my own mind.. looking back at my pics that MOE SL stock looks HUGE. Glad I ordered the SL-M! I'm vein when it comes to looks on these. I realize function over fashion all day every day but still. When you drop $3500+ on a build, it damn well better look good.
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Better light. Changed back to the Driven Arms grip, swapped in a Magpul extended mag release button (had in the spare parts, forgot all about it.) Without the can, it's a short one no doubt. I really like the MOE SL-M buttstock. Even if it's a bit loose (compared to the SL, which are super tight on the tube.) Next up, KAK rail when it gets here later this week. As much as I like Arisaka goodies, I'm just not dig'n the handstop I ordered. I ordered another Emissary Development Handbrake for this one. I've got them on the 10.5" & 11.3" builds and really like'm. So.. why not. 
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Originally Posted By AS556: Nice build OP. I just got a 16” WC ultralight .300 for a hunting AR. Thanks brother and congrats on the new WC barrel! That should pack a nice punch for ya. Well, new KAK rail came today, and it's on. Didn't really save much weight, but I like it none the less. 2 things that I needed to do: File a slight amount from the tiny ant-rotational tabs that interface the upper receiver. Should NOT have needed to do that, but I did. No big deal Time the barrel nut. They should come out and tell you it needs done, but they don't. It's the way the cross-lock blocks interface with the barrel nut. No real big deal, but again TELL US it needs done! Grand scheme of thing.. who cares, it's on. I like it.. nice and slim with loads of M-LOK slots to use for whatever. I just ordered some RailScales polymer "mini-dot" M-LOK covers for the sides (2.5 M-LOK slots.) I've also got a Magpul cantilever mount for the WML coming today too. As she sits right now, 6lb 2.5oz with can and empty mag. It feels a bit heavier, but numbers don't lie. Chicken Dinner.  
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Originally Posted By panthermark: I would not run any subs as a first choice for HD unless you are far more likely to shoot a 4 legged critter instead of a bipedal. If a 4 legged small critter, the 190's might be a good choice given their "cheaper" cost and easier access. But as far as expansion goes, they at the bottom of the list compared to Lehigh, Maker and Discreet Ballistics. Those three expand big, and are all copper rounds , but they are much more expensive. The Makers you basically have to load yourself, their loaded ammo has been vaporwear for years. My HD weapon is a 9" 300blk loaded with Hornady Black 110gr Vmax. Underwood loaded 110gr Varmageddon by Nosler is another good one for HD. If you desire more penetration/barrier blindness, you can always rock the gold standard Barnes 110gr Tac-tx. Don't forget PSA/AAC now offers 110gr Sabre Black Tips, which is basically 110gr V-max with a hair thicker jacket. I just placed an order for PSA/AAC's 115gr JHP, which are actually Sierra's Varminter round to test on IIIa. If you want to shake things up and keep folks off balance, there is always Lehigh's 115gr Controlled Chaos. This is good advice. My Rattler is loaded with AAC 110 BTs. I intend to shoot a deer with either the AAC 110BT or AAC 110 VMAX round this month also. Dunno if those two are actually a different projectile or not, but I figure they’re close enough for what I’m doing anyway. |
| I had a 11.3” 300BLK WC barrel. Got it here in the EE actually. It shot supers (I don’t shoot subs) GREAT. As in MOA or so pretty consistently with just a LPVO. For a short 300BLK I’m very happy with that. My Craddocks and Rainier Ultramatch barely outshoot it and they’re significantly more expensive. For the type of shooting inherent to such a barrel, I’d absolutely buy without hesitation. |
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Originally Posted By doty_soty: This is good advice. My Rattler is loaded with AAC 110 BTs. I intend to shoot a deer with either the AAC 110BT or AAC 110 VMAX round this month also. Dunno if those two are actually a different projectile or not, but I figure they’re close enough for what I’m doing anyway. If you still have the packing slip for you AAC Sabre BT's, I wonder if it says V-max? Mine did. They are basically V-max rounds with a slightly thicker (so we are told) jacket...still made by Hornady. (LOL, I eyeballed that 11.3" WC barrel on the EE. I think it was like $150 about a year ago) |
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Originally Posted By panthermark: If you still have the packing slip for you AAC Sabre BT's, I wonder if it says V-max? Mine did. They are basically V-max rounds with a slightly thicker (so we are told) jacket...still made by Hornady. (LOL, I eyeballed that 11.3" WC barrel on the EE. I think it was like $150 about a year ago) Originally Posted By panthermark: Originally Posted By doty_soty: This is good advice. My Rattler is loaded with AAC 110 BTs. I intend to shoot a deer with either the AAC 110BT or AAC 110 VMAX round this month also. Dunno if those two are actually a different projectile or not, but I figure they’re close enough for what I’m doing anyway. If you still have the packing slip for you AAC Sabre BT's, I wonder if it says V-max? Mine did. They are basically V-max rounds with a slightly thicker (so we are told) jacket...still made by Hornady. (LOL, I eyeballed that 11.3" WC barrel on the EE. I think it was like $150 about a year ago) Lost long ago, but I’ve heard that yeah some were initially labeled as VMAX. I figure it’s either the same projectile or it’s almost the same with a slightly thicker jacket. I doubt the difference adds up to a whole lot with 300BLK and it’s more modest velocities though. |
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Originally Posted By MackDaddy1962: Still not bad at all. I’m half tempted to get a Magpul MOE SL-K stock as well. Lighter, smaller and should work for me. Heck, I think I’ve got an old MOE K pistol grip somewhere too. I’ll have to give that a try for giggles. All in all so far I’m stoked. I just hope the little Obsidian 9 at least makes it somewhat bearable with sub ammo. Probably need to put it back in full configuration for that.. Did you sell your AEMS & Scalarworks mount? I thought I saw that in the EE while surfing a few days back. the SL-K is my go to for 5.56 and 300blk builds that have a carbine buffer tube. really like that stock. it does rattle a little bit on extension tubes that are on the small side of the bell curve, but anything with a carbine buffer is not built to win any beauty contests imo. it's a tool. I like the MagPul grips that have the oil bottle. it's the one "value added" that I've used the most at the range. worth the extra oz or two. |
The deuce you say.
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Originally Posted By Goody454: ... I have a suggestion/food for thought regarding your ammo selection: Subsonic ammo does not quiet the blast of the gun, but rather the sonic crack (I’m sure you’re aware). In a HD situation you’re likely not going to be shooting at a range where the round will travel far enough to realize the benefits of subsonic ammo. Having shot deer and hogs with subs before, I can tell you their performance is hugely underwhelming. I once shot a deer with a 405 grain all-copper expanding sub (from Maker Bullets) out of a 450 Bushmaster, and the deer walked off and was never recovered. This was a 30 yard shot off a tripod, so I’m confident I didn’t miss. Every deer I’ve shot using the same gun and supers never took a step, all DRT. I also shot a deer once with a subsonic/suppressed 357 rifle, shooting 180 grain XTP bullets. I made a good hit, and when I recovered the deer the next day we found it had died that morning (18 hours later). I see people talk about subs for HD often, so I apologize if this is controversial; but I would not trust subs on “my worst day” unless that was my only option. I’ve been keeping mine loaded with 110 V-Max supers, as I’m confident this will end the fight immediately at HD distances. YMMV… Hornady Black 110gr Vmax are my standard 300blk load. no can yet. I have some subsonic in mags, tested the two 300blk with them just to make sure they will cycle. but since I started assembling my 300blk all the range ammo is supers and the $uper$onic ammo has been Hornady 110gr Vmax funny, the Wislon 11.3" 6.8spc also gets the Hornady Black 110gr Vmax as well. going with "locally available and decent price" randomly ended up with the same weight bullet from the same manufacturer. I'm not a Hornady only shooter, they are just checking the most boxes for me. |
The deuce you say.
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The more I read and see ballistic test on 300 supers, it sure as heck looks like the right round for HD distance / use. I'll probably end up getting a good 30 cal or 9mm can that can handle the pressure. Rugged said no-go with the Obsidian 9. That sucks. For now, at least I've got a can & sub ammo I can function test the gun. That certainly needs done, and confident it'll go drama free. I'm curious to see what the Obsidian sounds like on this build. And y'all are right, the subs are not the best option for it's intended purpose. But, I'd venture to say no one would like to be on the receiving end of sub projectiles out of this gun, especially at in house range distance. Edit: Energy comparison data just because I was interested. Federal 147g HST 9mm @ 25 yards 311 lb/ft Hornady 190g Sub-X 300 BO @ 100 yards 420 lb/ft Hornady 110g V-MAX 300 BO @ 100 yards 1071 lb/ft That's a HUGE holy cow. |
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Originally Posted By spyderboy03: Looks nice! How big is that gas port? I just ordered a BRT tube for my Noveske. The 8.5" Criterion Core I had was definitely gassed better. @spyderboy03 I just measured mine with a drill bit index - 3/32 bit fit, so 0.09" rough size. |
This is NO dress rehearsal, we ARE professionals, and this IS the big time.
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Originally Posted By ar556223: @spyderboy03 I just measured mine with a drill bit index - 3/32 bit fit, so 0.09" rough size. |
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Originally Posted By metalsaber: Just picked this barrel up from WC. They had it for $166 before tax/shipping. Smoke'n hot deal! Congrats on that. Still haven't had a chance to shoot this yet but I expect it'll be drama free. I know my WC 11.3" 5.56 barreled build shoots fantastic. Edit: Truthfully, those sale prices are insane when you compare to what else is out there. What a great value. |
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Originally Posted By MackDaddy1962: Smoke'n hot deal! Congrats on that. Still haven't had a chance to shoot this yet but I expect it'll be drama free. I know my WC 11.3" 5.56 barreled build shoots fantastic. Edit: Truthfully, those sale prices are insane when you compare to what else is out there. What a great value. Originally Posted By MackDaddy1962: Originally Posted By metalsaber: Just picked this barrel up from WC. They had it for $166 before tax/shipping. Smoke'n hot deal! Congrats on that. Still haven't had a chance to shoot this yet but I expect it'll be drama free. I know my WC 11.3" 5.56 barreled build shoots fantastic. Edit: Truthfully, those sale prices are insane when you compare to what else is out there. What a great value. |
I bought all this equipment. What do you mean that the dead AREN'T coming back to life?
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I’ve got the same barrel and really like it. That’s an older picture and have swapped out the light for a Cloud Defensive Rein. Attached File |
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Originally Posted By metalsaber: agreed. I already had a gas tube and gas block so I'm good. If I think I need an adjustable gas block I can add one later. I never measure gas port sizes, so no help there. I'm one of those weirdo's that use an Adj GB all the time (SA.) Just because I've had good luck doing it that way with JP LMOS BCG's. |
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Originally Posted By tronco15: I’ve got the same barrel and really like it. That’s an older picture and have swapped out the light for a Cloud Defensive Rein. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/455781/IMG_8437_jpeg-3394311.JPG Good to hear and nice build! |
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Originally Posted By metalsaber: Just picked this barrel up from WC. They had it for $166 before tax/shipping. I've been following this thread for a while. That price pushed me over the edge. I got an additional 10% off by signing up for emails. Plus I had it shipped to me at work which has commercial UPS daily deliveries & that dropped the shipping down a few more bucks. $163.96 shipped 2nd day. Thanks for starting this thread @MackDaddy1962 |
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It's only an addiction if you're trying to quit
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Originally Posted By optimator: I've been following this thread for a while. That price pushed me over the edge. I got an additional 10% off by signing up for emails. Plus I had it shipped to me at work which has commercial UPS daily deliveries & that dropped the shipping down a few more bucks. $163.96 shipped 2nd day. Thanks for starting this thread @MackDaddy1962 @optimator Most welcome, and what a great deal no doubt. I find no reason for anyone to look elsewhere for 8" 300 BO barrels. That's a really great price! |
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Have no idea how good these are, but should work out okay for range use and vetting the new build. Took advantage of BF pricing (.93/rnd with tax & shipping) Ammo Inc Stelth 300 BO 220gr |
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Originally Posted By ar556223: @spyderboy03 I just measured mine with a drill bit index - 3/32 bit fit, so 0.09" rough size. @ar556223 That’s the gas port size on these barrels? That seems HUGE if that be the case.. 🧐 Not that it really matters to me, I throttle everything down anyway. Still.. |
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Originally Posted By MackDaddy1962: @ar556223 That's the gas port size on these barrels? That seems HUGE if that be the case.. Not that it really matters to me, I throttle everything down anyway. Still.. Originally Posted By MackDaddy1962: Originally Posted By ar556223: @spyderboy03 I just measured mine with a drill bit index - 3/32 bit fit, so 0.09" rough size. @ar556223 That's the gas port size on these barrels? That seems HUGE if that be the case.. Not that it really matters to me, I throttle everything down anyway. Still.. |
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Originally Posted By MackDaddy1962: Have no idea how good these are, but should work out okay for range use and vetting the new build. Took advantage of BF pricing (.93/rnd with tax & shipping) Ammo Inc Stelth 300 BO 220gr Bruh.... https://www.ar15.com/forums/AR-15/300blk-Apex-194gr-Maximum-Expansion-with-lead-Target-Sports-USA-Update-Not-lead-/16-788349/ |
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Originally Posted By spyderboy03: That's on the smaller side for 300. Noveske is .104 and many are in the .100-.120 range. In the low .09's is where subs stop functioning unsuppressed. Learn something new every day.. Thank you sir. Edit: With what you’re saying, looks like the gas block will need opened up more than I’m used to. No big deal, just learning the 300 BO quirks. So to speak.. I don’t plan on running unsuppressed, but it’s certainly good to know what’s what. |
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Originally Posted By panthermark: Bruh.... https://www.ar15.com/forums/AR-15/300blk-Apex-194gr-Maximum-Expansion-with-lead-Target-Sports-USA-Update-Not-lead-/16-788349/ I saw that earlier, damn it! Oh well, I’ll grab some of it too since it’s in stock. Thanks 👍🏻 |
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Originally Posted By MackDaddy1962: @ar556223 That’s the gas port size on these barrels? That seems HUGE if that be the case.. 🧐 Not that it really matters to me, I throttle everything down anyway. Still.. It is probably a bit larger - the 3/32 bit was not snug and 3/32 = 0.09375. |
This is NO dress rehearsal, we ARE professionals, and this IS the big time.
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Originally Posted By MackDaddy1962: Suppressor mounting system now on point. Griffin Plan A taper mount mini flash hider in Ti Griffin Plan A Alpha hub mount for the Obsidian 9 https://media.fotki.com/2v2ZuVUV3x9T3R.jpg https://media.fotki.com/2v2ZuVUmzx9T3R.jpg That build looks really nice with the new suppressor mount, kudos!! |
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