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Posted: 9/19/2004 5:31:41 PM EST
Will an AR short stroke if you don't hold it at all or very lightly?

Just curious.
Link Posted: 9/19/2004 5:37:34 PM EST
If that was the case, then I wouldn't think bump firing would do much.

Doc
Link Posted: 9/19/2004 5:43:16 PM EST
Well, short stroking is shown by the bolt not locking open, it will still fire every shot just last round doesnt lock the bolt open.
Link Posted: 9/19/2004 5:45:27 PM EST
I think the answer would be no. A pistol, like a Glock or 1911 can do this because it is recoil operated. If you limp wrist it, yea it could short stroke. AR's and the like are gas operated and rely upon gas, not recoil to drive the bolt back. but then again, what the hell do i know?
Link Posted: 9/19/2004 5:52:34 PM EST
Oh yes it will shortstroke!!!!!

I was screwing around with an idea I had......if you're using an AR in a "house clearing" setting, with a full stock, could you tuck the stock WAY under your armpit to reduce the overall length of the rifle, to make it harder for somebody to grap the weapon if you're going around doorways and tight corners...... if you need to shoot the gun fast, bring it up and use a "nose to cocking handle" hold for a fast shot.

Idea didn't work. I tried to with a "Limp wristed" hold, let the rifle recoil almost freely.....(Almost hit my nose a couple of times, no fun at all!) She'd jam about once every 3-5 shots.....

AoD
Link Posted: 9/19/2004 5:55:20 PM EST
I don't think so. My son was firing my AR when he was 9 or 10 and he certainly didn't hold that weapon tight because he was too small to shoulder it and reach the trigger, so he basically let it rest on the range bags. Never had a short stroke.
Link Posted: 9/19/2004 6:10:04 PM EST
"Short stroking" ejection malfunctions are more prevalent on weapons with fixed ejectors than ones with spring loaded ejectors. The fixed ejector MUST be stable to kick the empty case free. Spring loaded ejectors WILL work properly as long as the bolt comes back far enough for the case length to clear the ejection port.

I suppose it IS possible for a loosely held AR to recoil along with the rearward travel of the bolt carrier to cause it to fali to go far enough to the rear for the case to clear the port, and/or pick up a new round from the magazine, but it is less likely than on a weapon with a fixed ejector.

BTW, the original T-48 manual for the proposed US FAL rifle, advises to adjust the gas regulator, so the rifle ejects properly when held loosely in the hands away from the body. This is because of the fixed ejector design, mostly. Seems they understood 50 years ago, that there WOULD be situations where the rifle WOULD be required to be shot from less than the optimum position of tightly against the shoulder. Seems like a pretty good idea.



Lonny
Link Posted: 9/19/2004 6:12:26 PM EST
Not in a properly functioning gun. Ask the midwest folks who saw me shooting my M4 like a pistol yesterday.
Link Posted: 9/19/2004 7:50:35 PM EST
It depends upon barrel length - as a general rule, the shorter the barrel the more likely to short-stroke if limp wristed. I've had guys who just can't get more than one round out of a 10.5 inch upper, the weapon cycles but the bolt does not return far enough to pick up the next round after ejecting the spent case. It's all to due with bolt momentum vs. the rearward acceleration of the rifle under recoil.
HFG
Link Posted: 9/20/2004 1:36:48 PM EST

Originally Posted By QuietShootr:
Not in a properly functioning gun.



Correct. It's part of the 6,000 round endurance test for the M16A2 & M4.
"unrestrained firing"
Link Posted: 9/20/2004 1:42:45 PM EST
Tagged to enjoy some more whacky replies!
Link Posted: 9/20/2004 2:31:07 PM EST

Originally Posted By QuietShootr:
Not in a properly functioning gun. Ask the midwest folks who saw me shooting my M4 like a pistol yesterday.





I've also done this


If your gun is short stroking under any circumstances its broken.
Link Posted: 9/20/2004 3:10:11 PM EST

Originally Posted By QuietShootr:
Not in a properly functioning gun. Ask the midwest folks who saw me shooting my M4 like a pistol yesterday.



QS, I was thinking of you when I first started reading this thread. Guys, QS shot the rifle one-handed, sideways both directions, and damned-near upside down and never had a failure. I was a witness.
Link Posted: 9/20/2004 3:46:13 PM EST
What is the most common cause for short stroking?
Link Posted: 9/20/2004 3:51:09 PM EST
I was thinking of QS when I started reading as well. Great minds think alike. He did quite a bit of shooting one handed. Once the buffer spring thing got sorted out, you can fire it unbraced as long as the ammo holds out. Although that requires a lot of arm strength to hold it out there like that.
Link Posted: 9/20/2004 4:02:39 PM EST
On the last Mail Call they showed some troops (forget Army/Mariners/whatever) training for convoy ambushes and IEDs/etc. They were all shooting from their vehicles at targets on the side of the road. The driver had his left hand on the wheel, and the right on the pistol grip of his M16. The rifle was pointed out the open window to his left, with the handguard resting on the door frame. He was popping off shots no problem, obviously not bracing against the recoil at all. The gun was probably recoiling back about 5" each time he fired a shot.
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