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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 1/7/2006 1:29:25 AM EDT
Bushmaster 14.5" barrel in the pictures has over 10 000 rounds through without any major cleaning. As you can see, the grooves and rifling are pretty badly fouled. Pictures are taken after several hours of cleaning.

Light made it look like there is bad grooves on rifling but that is fouling build up.




Lots of shooting leaves marks also to the chamber area. Hard chrome is chipped from the chamber.



Business end of the barrel is like new from the factory.



Couple of pics taken from groups I shot before I started to clean this mess. At this point there was about 9500 rounds through the barrel.
Groups were shot from 109 yds using bipod and sand bag as support.

10 shot group of 69gr SMK.


10 shot group of 77gr SMK. Not bad for the worn out barrel with 1/9" twist...



Needless to say, I´m big fan of chromelined barrels.

MN
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 2:08:04 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 2:18:25 AM EDT
LOL

No need, I have ordered them from Brownells and used lots of them...

I tried everything, Shooter´s Choice Bore Cleaner (it´s like using water), Shooter´s Copper Remover, but it looks like that fouling is there to stay.

Next phase is stainless steel bore brush with pure ammonia.

MN
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 2:38:23 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 2:42:13 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Tweak:
Sweet's?



+1 If Sweet's won't take it out, it's pretty much there to stay (copper anyway).
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 3:20:13 AM EDT
Sweet´s would be nice, if I find it. It´s available from Brownells but they won´t send it because it´s hazardous material and Air Parcel is out of question...

MN
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 4:05:10 AM EDT
For really bad cases in higher velocity guns, I have had to use JP Bore Paste a little to break down the carbon layers that builds up over the copper (can be many layers). An alternate between JP Bore Paste and some type of milder copper solvent . Have never used this with a chrome lined barrel.

Other option is get a new barrel (always need two of everthing anyway ;-)>

Link Posted: 1/7/2006 10:27:05 AM EDT
Try one of the electrolytic cleaners. BSW
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 10:37:05 AM EDT
TM Solutions from Sinclair, Wipeout (multiple applications), SLIP Carbon Cutter, IOOSO or JB paste, it's going to take awhile regardless of what you end up using.

Maybe next time just give it a quick clean every 500 rounds or so, what'ya say?
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 1:33:54 PM EDT
plug the bore and gas hole, fill with hoppes let sit a few weeks brush and repeat till clean.
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 10:43:22 PM EDT
+1 on JB bore paste.
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 12:57:39 AM EDT
Thanks for the help guys.

I´ll try ammonia and stainless brush and let you know the results.

JTinIN, don´t worry, I have 2 M4 barrels, two is one, one is none.

MN
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 1:23:26 AM EDT
Abrasive bullets should clean some of that out.
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 6:17:58 AM EDT

Originally Posted By M4A2_L073754:
Thanks for the help guys.

I´ll try ammonia and stainless brush and let you know the results.

JTinIN, don´t worry, I have 2 M4 barrels, two is one, one is none.

MN



I don't think ammonia will do crap for carbon, it's a copper buster. What you probably have are laternating layers of carbon and copper. You need a product that will get rid of the carbon first. Either use an abrasive on a bronze (not SS) brush with tight fitting patch or use some chemical concoction that works on carbon. Then hit it with some Sweets to take care of the copper. Then go back to your carbon product.

The easiest thing to do is clean your damn barrel every 500 rounds or so so you don't get into this mess.
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 7:41:06 AM EDT
I should have been more specific...

I´ve tried following
Break Free w/ bronze brush (plenty of them)
Break Free w/ 000 steel wool
JB Bore Paste
Shooter´s Choice Bore Cleaner
Shooter´s Choice Copper Remover
Kettner copper remover (propably strongest I have tried so far)
+ tons of patches... and gallons of Break Free... at least I think so.

I think stainless bore brush won´t hurt it anymore, I´m not going to brush riflings off, just to break the surface of the carbon or copper or what the hell ever that shit is.

MN

Link Posted: 1/8/2006 1:17:50 PM EDT
A lot of that is copper. Carbon will brush out with what you have already used, to what remains must be metallic.

First, you need to get all of the oil out of the bore. Spray it with cheap carb cleaner, and brush it with a bronze brush. Spray the bore out again with carb cleaner.

Now that the bore is free of oils, use household ammonia. On either a nylon or stainless brush (no brass bronze or copper!) or use a slotted tip with a patch. Wet the bore down, and let it stand for 5 to 10 minutes. Now, brush the bore again, and clean it out with a patch.

You can repeat this process several times, as long as you keep up the pace. DO NOT let the ammonia stand in the bore overnight. Once you are though with this cleaning process, be sure to re-oil the bore.


Lem
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 2:32:15 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 7:09:35 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Tweak:
Break Free is about useless for fouling of that calibre, it's CLPs but doesn't do any one particularly well.


Yup, I know but I wanted to give some kind of lubrication when I tried steel wool method.



You should be good with the Shooter's Choice but JB Paste may be in your future.


Shooter´s Choice (Bore Cleaner and Copper Remover) is not strong enough, that´s why I used Kettners ammonia solution.

MN
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 12:15:44 AM EDT
Check this link out here.

They tested 36 bore cleaners on the market and claim that the KG product they sell is superior.....They soaked a Barnes 210g copper bullet in solvent for 19 and 24 hours and weighed it to see how much copper had been removed.

Sweets removed 0.2grains of copper in 24 hours. KG cleaner removed 9.5 grains......

I haven't used any myself, but am going to get some. I curently use Forrest Bore Foam.

Cheers
steven

ETA- I'm not involved with any of the above companies, but thought you could do with some help !
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 8:29:51 AM EDT

Originally Posted By steven_uk:
Check this link out here.

They tested 36 bore cleaners on the market and claim that the KG product they sell is superior.....They soaked a Barnes 210g copper bullet in solvent for 19 and 24 hours and weighed it to see how much copper had been removed.

Sweets removed 0.2grains of copper in 24 hours. KG cleaner removed 9.5 grains......

I haven't used any myself, but am going to get some. I curently use Forrest Bore Foam.

Cheers
steven

ETA- I'm not involved with any of the above companies, but thought you could do with some help !



Sweet Jesus! That is somekind of acid...??

Thanks for the link!

MN
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 12:48:07 PM EDT
The best copper and carbon solvent combination I have found is BoreTech Benchrest Blend.Its safe to use as in it will not etch the barrel.
Also a rather easy to find mechanical/abrasive bore cleaner is Remingtons bore cleaner.Wally world has it in stock.It works just as well as J&B.
The problem as I see it is the chrome is damaged.That means the copper fixing base is exposed.The copper solvents will eat the fixing base away and the chrome will peel.Regardless I would look at a new barrel.
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 5:11:13 PM EDT
Uh, nope.

Rifle bores are "Hard Chromed" - a process that deposits straight chromium onto the bare steel using an electrolytic bath of chromic & sulfuric acids.


Car bumpers and decorative junk are plated with a copper / nickel / chrome process, that yields bright shiny chrome plating - and is subject to peeling and corrosion attack.


Lem.


.
Link Posted: 1/15/2006 8:07:00 PM EDT
After 10K rounds, don't you owe yourself a new barrel?
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 3:10:06 AM EDT
QQ-C-320B class II chrome platting aka hard chrome platting has no base material applied unless specified by the customer.
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 3:17:49 AM EDT
I say, use the nuclear option.
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 3:19:14 AM EDT
what happened to the pics??
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 3:58:27 AM EDT
I still see them.
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 6:28:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/16/2006 6:32:18 PM EDT by Blankwaffe98]

Originally Posted By Gregory_K:
QQ-C-320B class II chrome platting aka hard chrome platting has no base material applied unless specified by the customer.



Yeap...got it.


Regardless damage to the chromed surface at the chamber and leade is not conducive to accuracy.Wrecks bullets and causes heavy copper fouling.
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 6:38:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/16/2006 6:41:08 PM EDT by Blankwaffe98]

Originally Posted By M4A2_L073754:
Sweet´s would be nice, if I find it. It´s available from Brownells but they won´t send it because it´s hazardous material and Air Parcel is out of question...

MN



Just saw this post.I see your point about getting some of the supplies mentioned.
Have you tried to find any of the Robla Solo-MIL made by Ballistol-Klever?
www.klever-ballistol.de/
From what Ive read on the net from folks who use it its a very effective solvent.Maybe even better than Sweets...although I cant say first hand unfortunately,as its not available here in the U.S..
Seems to be widely used and available in Europe so maybe that may help.
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 7:33:37 PM EDT
Blank, I have a cowboy action shooting shooter (where retired IPSC shooters go) that uses that stuff for his Black powder guns. He swears it is better than windex.

good for cuts too.
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 7:59:44 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Gregory_K:
Blank, I have a cowboy action shooting shooter (where retired IPSC shooters go) that uses that stuff for his Black powder guns. He swears it is better than windex.

good for cuts too.



You must be talking about the Ballistol oil.Yeah I love the Ballistol for black powder weapons and my mil-surps that see corrosive primed ammo.Works great as a CLP with the advantage of neutralizing acids from the powders and primers and is a mild copper solvent.Thing about Ballistol is that it does not cause gumming when mixed/burned with black powder residues like some oils do.I use it as a patch lube and have yet got a tight bore no matter how much I shoot while using it.Clean up only takes a couple minutes also.
The liquid Ballistol is the only way to go though...the aerosol is just too thin as its solvent content is too high IMHO.For a lube anyway...the aerosol does seem to clean and penetrate a bit better.
The Robla Solo-MIL solvent I mentioned is an ammonia based solvent thats darn effective from what Ive been told.Its not available here in the U.S. though.Not yet anyway.
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 8:12:59 PM EDT
I've been using MPro7 these days on the carbon. It works quite well.

Then, I get the copper with Sweet's, and then try the MPro7 again and get greyish (not black) patches.

Stuff works pretty well and claims to be non-toxic.

Cheers,

kk7sm

Link Posted: 1/17/2006 4:26:56 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Blankwaffe98:

Just saw this post.I see your point about getting some of the supplies mentioned.
Have you tried to find any of the Robla Solo-MIL made by Ballistol-Klever?
www.klever-ballistol.de/
From what Ive read on the net from folks who use it its a very effective solvent.Maybe even better than Sweets...although I cant say first hand unfortunately,as its not available here in the U.S..
Seems to be widely used and available in Europe so maybe that may help.



Blankwaffe,

thanks for the link. I´ll have to try that too.

MN
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 4:37:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/17/2006 4:38:09 PM EDT by Blankwaffe98]

Originally Posted By M4A2_L073754:

Originally Posted By Blankwaffe98:

Just saw this post.I see your point about getting some of the supplies mentioned.
Have you tried to find any of the Robla Solo-MIL made by Ballistol-Klever?
www.klever-ballistol.de/
From what Ive read on the net from folks who use it its a very effective solvent.Maybe even better than Sweets...although I cant say first hand unfortunately,as its not available here in the U.S..
Seems to be widely used and available in Europe so maybe that may help.



Blankwaffe,

thanks for the link. I´ll have to try that too.

MN



Your welcome.Hope it helps.
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