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Posted: 8/8/2009 11:14:14 AM EDT
[#1]
I'm not aware of any "special" unit that uses a rifle caliber pistol.
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Posted: 8/8/2009 11:18:40 AM EDT
[#2]
Same here. Where are you getting this info?
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Posted: 8/8/2009 11:19:45 AM EDT
[#3]
Maybe he is thinking of that old pic that pops up with the PD and their AR pistols all pointing at eachothers heads...
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Posted: 8/8/2009 3:05:37 PM EDT
[#4]
Does anyone actually use them? I was under the impression cops carry them in their trunks and cqb operators like them?
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Posted: 8/8/2009 3:10:16 PM EDT
[#5]
Quoted:
Does anyone actually use them? I was under the impression cops carry them in their trunks and cqb operators like them? They are next to useless. Pretty much a range toy. Why have something that heavy without sholder stabilization? |
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Posted: 8/8/2009 3:34:38 PM EDT
[#6]
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Why have something that heavy without sholder stabilization? Probably cause some states SBR's are forbidden. And others don't want to pay the stamp man, nor want the added attention. |
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Posted: 8/8/2009 3:36:12 PM EDT
[#7]
"Special Units" do not use AR pistols. They use SBRs or short barreled MGs. AR pistols just get around the NFA, which sucks a lot less for police departments.
There is one picture of a SWAT team with Bushmaster Carbon-15 pistols. But there are also pictures of a SWAT team with SKSs. Both are inappropriate weapons for modern law enforcement and thats an issue with a lack of knowledge,training, and common sense. |
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Posted: 8/8/2009 3:44:36 PM EDT
[#8]
This is the only HSLD unit I know of that uses them.........They bring "Tactical Awesomeness" to a whole new level!!!!!
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Posted: 8/8/2009 3:46:53 PM EDT
[#9]
Quoted:
Quoted:
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Why have something that heavy without shoulder stabilization? Probably cause some states SBR's are forbidden. And others don't want to pay the stamp man, nor want the added attention. I am referring to Military or LE applications where this would not be an issue in response to the thread topic. |
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Posted: 8/8/2009 3:49:09 PM EDT
[#10]
who told you that!!!! i know a number of officers NONE carry them
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Posted: 8/8/2009 4:16:00 PM EDT
[#11]
Quoted:
who told you that!!!! i know a number of officers NONE carry them this - tagged for names and locations |
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Posted: 8/8/2009 7:29:59 PM EDT
[#12]
I use an AR pistol and i'm "special"
Does that count? 
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Posted: 8/8/2009 7:31:40 PM EDT
[#13]
Quoted:
Does anyone actually use them? I was under the impression cops carry them in their trunks and cqb operators like them? Where did you get this impression? |
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Posted: 8/8/2009 7:32:13 PM EDT
[#14]
Quoted:
This is the only HSLD unit I know of that uses them.........They bring "Tactical Awesomeness" to a whole new level!!!!! http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y71/mic214/ERT-2.jpg Testical! |
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Posted: 8/8/2009 7:39:42 PM EDT
[#15]
I'm not saying I've seen every rifle and pistol in service, but I can say I've never seen any military unit use an AR pistol. Ever. Anywhere.
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Posted: 8/9/2009 4:09:28 AM EDT
[#16]
Quoted:
This is the only HSLD unit I know of that uses them.........They bring "Tactical Awesomeness" to a whole new level!!!!! http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y71/mic214/ERT-2.jpg Talk about muzzle control, they must not like that one guy. |
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Posted: 8/9/2009 4:25:23 AM EDT
[#17]
Mic 214, I think the reason those guys use that gun is because if they miss the guy, they can bun them with the fire ball.
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Posted: 8/9/2009 6:57:58 AM EDT
[#18]
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Mic 214, I think the reason those guys use that gun is because if they miss the guy, they can bun them with the fire ball.     .........Good one.... !
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Posted: 8/9/2009 7:49:50 AM EDT
[#19]
Quoted:
This is the only HSLD unit I know of that uses them.........They bring "Tactical Awesomeness" to a whole new level!!!!! http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y71/mic214/ERT-2.jpg Man, thats just sad, one good scare and that unit is down to three!! Maybe someone should teach them the 1st four rules of firearms!! Seems like some law enforcement needs to spend ALOT more time in FA safety training!! |
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Posted: 8/9/2009 8:57:14 AM EDT
[#20]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Does anyone actually use them? I was under the impression cops carry them in their trunks and cqb operators like them? They are next to useless. Pretty much a range toy. Why have something that heavy without sholder stabilization? I wouldn't say they are "next to useless". I don't have any accuracy or reliability issues. |
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Posted: 8/9/2009 9:39:32 AM EDT
[#21]
Quoted:
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Does anyone actually use them? I was under the impression cops carry them in their trunks and cqb operators like them? They are next to useless. Pretty much a range toy. Why have something that heavy without shoulder stabilization? I wouldn't say they are "next to useless". I don't have any accuracy or reliability issues. What is the point of them? Combining the weight of a rifle with the lack of shoulder stabilization and poor ballistics of a pistol? I don't think they see any real world use outside of the range toy realm. Not that there is anything wrong with that. Some guns are just for fun anyways. |
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Posted: 8/9/2009 12:25:06 PM EDT
[#22]
i agree.
I did however see an interview with a border patrol agent carrying one. I think it was on glenn beck. Jon |
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Posted: 8/9/2009 3:15:33 PM EDT
[#23]
I wonder if those officers even realize their error after looking at the photo?
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Posted: 8/9/2009 4:20:45 PM EDT
[#24]
Quoted:
I'm not saying I've seen every rifle and pistol in service, but I can say I've never seen any military unit use an AR pistol. Ever. Anywhere. although a machinegun, you get the picture. 
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Posted: 8/9/2009 4:33:30 PM EDT
[#25]
Quoted:
i agree. I did however see an interview with a border patrol agent carrying one. I think it was on glenn beck. Jon I'd have to see the video myself. The BP issues M4s. |
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Posted: 8/9/2009 5:07:20 PM EDT
[#26]
I've used a 7.5" SBR but I would not have a use for an AR pistol in a tactical or CQC scenario. Generally I use a 10.5" SBR.
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Posted: 8/9/2009 5:21:12 PM EDT
[#27]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I'm not saying I've seen every rifle and pistol in service, but I can say I've never seen any military unit use an AR pistol. Ever. Anywhere. although a machinegun, you get the picture.
http://www.autoweapons.com/photos06/nov/381portb.jpg Since some PD's are getting/sharing military surplus fighting vehicles, there may be a growing use of the AR "handgun". |
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Posted: 8/9/2009 5:56:52 PM EDT
[#28]
Seems like I remember a picture floating around here that had a AR-type pistol mounted to the inside door of a humvee, with the muzzle outside. If I remember correctly, it had some type of swivel. Anyone have that picture?
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Posted: 8/9/2009 7:19:42 PM EDT
[#29]
Quoted:
Seems like I remember a picture floating around here that had a AR-type pistol mounted to the inside door of a humvee, with the muzzle outside. If I remember correctly, it had some type of swivel. Anyone have that picture? port firing weapon thread with pics....maybe the one you are talking about....may be a bradley door... http://www.ak47.net/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=123&t=376628 |
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Posted: 8/9/2009 8:48:43 PM EDT
[#30]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I'm not saying I've seen every rifle and pistol in service, but I can say I've never seen any military unit use an AR pistol. Ever. Anywhere. although a machinegun, you get the picture.
http://www.autoweapons.com/photos06/nov/381portb.jpg Since some PD's are getting/sharing military surplus fighting vehicles, there may be a growing use of the AR "handgun". NOT the one I have picture above...IT has a rate of fire of 1100 ROUNDS PER MINUTE that is not a misprint, it is 1100 RPM HOW's THAT for liability... 
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Posted: 8/11/2009 12:15:00 AM EDT
[#31]
It was good enough for Willem Dafoe in Clear and Present Danger.
http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Clear_and_Present_Danger
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Posted: 8/11/2009 12:13:49 PM EDT
[#32]
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It was good enough for Willem Dafoe in Clear and Present Danger. http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Clear_and_Present_Danger And Spawn! :P 
OA 93 with the short extension that allows for a longer BC with an auto-sear trip. It was FA... ETA: THEY were FA, he had 2... |
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Posted: 8/11/2009 12:31:56 PM EDT
[#33]
Quoted:
i agree. I did however see an interview with a border patrol agent carrying one. I think it was on glenn beck. Jon Not possible. |
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Posted: 8/24/2009 2:58:01 PM EDT
[#34]
I think a 7.5" AR would do more damage then a Glock in a kick the door and spray scenario.
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a125/Idge0/M16A19mm.jpg |
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Posted: 8/24/2009 3:48:24 PM EDT
[#35]
Quoted:
I think a 7.5" AR would do more damage then a Glock in a kick the door and spray scenario. http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a125/Idge0/M16A19mm.jpg 1. Thats not a pistol 2. What do you base your belief on? 3. Can you give me a example of a "kick the door and spray scenario" I dont know anybody who sprays anything in a entry situation |
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Posted: 8/24/2009 7:01:02 PM EDT
[#36]
 I agree.... Who would be dumb enough to spray and pray with all the "fetty boggin lawyers" around? The reality has to be least amount of rounds for the best result... The weapons looks like a NFA mistake or even a PSD platform. Out..
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Posted: 8/24/2009 7:26:42 PM EDT
[#37]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I'm not saying I've seen every rifle and pistol in service, but I can say I've never seen any military unit use an AR pistol. Ever. Anywhere. although a machinegun, you get the picture.
http://www.autoweapons.com/photos06/nov/381portb.jpg I'm not exactly sure that's a pistol, as it seems to have been produced with a 15.6 inch barrel. I'm also fairly certain the commander's property book wouldn't list it as a pistol. I would also posit the FM would refer to it as an M231 Port Firing Weapon.
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Posted: 8/25/2009 5:36:31 AM EDT
[#38]
Quoted:
Quoted:
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I'm not saying I've seen every rifle and pistol in service, but I can say I've never seen any military unit use an AR pistol. Ever. Anywhere. although a machinegun, you get the picture.
http://www.autoweapons.com/photos06/nov/381portb.jpg I'm not exactly sure that's a pistol, as it seems to have been produced with a 15.6 inch barrel. I'm also fairly certain the commander's property book wouldn't list it as a pistol. I would also posit the FM would refer to it as an M231 Port Firing Weapon. meh, close enough. I
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Posted: 8/25/2009 7:36:57 AM EDT
[#39]
This again so soon? Jeez. I must see two or three of these "my AR pistol w/7-inch barrel is the ultimate CQB weapon" threads per week now.
Barrel not long enough for 5.56 use against people or large animals. It's just not. No amount of tactical woopdeeoo-edness and pics of cops in purple uniforms aiming at each other's heads will make a short barrel achieve more velocity. Now, if the AR pistol has a 10.5" or longer barrel... now you're talking about a real SBR without the stock. Although, the Barney-patrol with the Bushmaster Carbon-15 pistols looks pretty "special" to me. ETA: Does Spawn have any iron sights on that thing or any kind of optics? Kick ass. He can fire it accurately with no sights. |
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Posted: 8/25/2009 7:52:36 AM EDT
[#40]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I'm not saying I've seen every rifle and pistol in service, but I can say I've never seen any military unit use an AR pistol. Ever. Anywhere. although a machinegun, you get the picture.
http://www.autoweapons.com/photos06/nov/381portb.jpg it has a collapsing wire stock, try again
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Posted: 8/25/2009 7:56:57 AM EDT
[#41]
Quoted:
it has a collapsing wire stock, try again True, the real ones did have that. The one pictured is some dude's pistol clone of the real SBR. |
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Posted: 8/25/2009 8:26:28 AM EDT
[#42]
The point is. It's 7.5". I don't give a fuck about the stock. The ballistics is what people are complaining about. I think the ballisics are better then a 9mm if you kick a door open in Iraq and have to spray at 3 Arab's packin' AK's inside. "Not for use in USAholes."
This or this will damage the tissue the same. Stock or no stock. The one with the ever so powerful stock on it is photo shopped so keep your panties out of a bunch. http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a125/Idge0/photoshpAR.jpg http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a125/Idge0/0415092029a.jpg |
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Posted: 8/25/2009 8:48:28 AM EDT
[#43]
I haven't checked mine yet. So what fps does a 55grain bullet achieve comming out of a 7.5". Now I have to chroni...my 7.5" And I guess I'll see if my 7 7/8" AK is as powerful as a Glock. I hope they go more then 900fps like my 45 or they might bounce off a target. Or I might have to keep my brand new Barret in my closet for home defense. I hope that has good ballisics. Althiough I wouldn't intend on the use of anything but my 870 in my house.
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a125/Idge0/akkarr.jpg http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a125/Idge0/0802091650a.jpg |
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Posted: 8/25/2009 9:22:11 AM EDT
[#44]
Quoted:
 seems to be missing something, hmmm.... and i would guess your AR pistol will have...dissapointing velocity, seeing as it is a .22... |
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Posted: 8/25/2009 10:05:17 AM EDT
[#45]
Quoted:
seems to be missing something, hmmm.... and i would guess your AR pistol will have...dissapointing velocity, seeing as it is a .22... He has or at least had a .223 upper on it in his other pics he has posted. idgelidge: I like the RRA pistol and also the AK pistol. Nice. However, the stock doesn't do anything to the ballistics. See this thread for info on the required velocity to fragment for 5.56: http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=122&t=454771 It links to another thread, which links to yet another thread, both with valuable info on ballistics. Not many people who currently have 5.56/.223 pistols with 7-inch barrels want to hear about actual ballistic/bullet data, so beware that they all come at you with "well, would you like to stand downrange and let me shoot at you" or "it will still make holes in badguys" garbage. A .22 will make holes and go downrange accurately too - still isn't what I would use to shoot bad guys unless I couldn't get anything better. Assuming the AK is x39 and you have quality hollowpoints or soft nose rounds for it, I would personally go with that for home defense if I didn't live in a condo/apt or have close neighbors. I know from a family member's negligent discharge that a 16" barrel AK will put a FMJ bullet through three interior walls and two floors and a door and still get to the basement with enough force to dent a dimple in a basement steel I-beam before splashing everything in the basement with lead and copper jacket shards. SO, I wouldn't use an x39 for home def unless I was more worried about stopping threats than I was about property damage and overpenetration/neighbors.
ETA: I am unfamiliar with the required velocity for 7.62x39, but I still would pick that over the RRA pistol (especially if it's the .22 you picture now  ) for stopping bad guys in my living room. At least it has more bullet mass. You are on the right track with the 870, though. Just reread this thread and saw that info.
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Posted: 8/25/2009 10:11:17 AM EDT
[#46]
Quoted:
Does anyone actually use them? I was under the impression cops carry them in their trunks and cqb operators like them? Was this impression gleaned from observing some sort of an interpretaive dance followed by a mime who made strangely phallic balloon animals? |
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Posted: 8/25/2009 10:13:41 AM EDT
[#47]
Quoted:
I think a 7.5" AR would do more damage then a Glock in a kick the door and spray scenario. http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a125/Idge0/M16A19mm.jpg You think a .22lr will do more damage than a 9mm? Because that will be the MV of a 5.56 coming out of a barrel that short.
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Posted: 8/25/2009 10:21:18 AM EDT
[#48]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I think a 7.5" AR would do more damage then a Glock in a kick the door and spray scenario. http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a125/Idge0/M16A19mm.jpg You think a .22lr will do more damage than a 9mm? Because that will be the MV of a 5.56 coming out of a barrel that short.What about a 10.5" barrel? I built my buffer-less tube-less AR pistol with one, and i can say it would do some damage.
Once shot it down into a creek at floating targets and it made a rather explosive splash...  (not exactly quantifyable i know)
If nothing else, a 7.5" could potentially give the BG (and shooter  ) a concussion...
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Posted: 8/25/2009 10:26:23 AM EDT
[#49]
10.5" barrels with standard direct impingement have been clocked at velocities high enough to work out to 48 yards with 5.56 TAP (heavier) ammo. I think your pistol would be fine for bad guy usage, assuming the piston operation or whatever it has (no stock, so I assume piston) doesn't take too much of the force out of the equation, and it is similar to the DI numbers.
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Posted: 8/25/2009 10:34:44 AM EDT
[#50]
Quoted:
10.5" barrels with standard direct impingement have been clocked at velocities high enough to work out to 48 yards with 5.56 TAP (heavier) ammo. I think your pistol would be fine for bad guy usage, assuming the piston operation or whatever it has (no stock, so I assume piston) doesn't take too much of the force out of the equation, and it is similar to the DI numbers. It's still DI...with the gas port at Carbine position. It runs 100% and fairly clean, as the gas tube never leaves the gas key. I built the gas key (and several other parts) from scratch, it's extended all the way to the gas block when in battery. The gas key has a keeper on the end for the action spring which is in the forward cocking tube around the gas key. ALBUM 
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