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Posted: 10/8/2004 9:08:43 PM EST
3.9 lb's for the Bushmaster Lady.......the lightest AR I've seen runs around 6 lbs......If you go with the Vulcan CF and the lightest handguard and grips you can get , plus the Superlightweight 16" barrel, the best is probably 4.5-5 lbs......what makes them so light? You still have to have a steel carrier, bolt and barrel.....what's the major difference? How can they shave off an extra 1-2 lbs?

THanks,
AoD
Link Posted: 10/8/2004 9:13:19 PM EST
Uh, by using carbon instead of aluminum
Link Posted: 10/8/2004 9:16:57 PM EST
^What he said. All of the aluminum is replaced with carbon which is lighter.
Link Posted: 10/8/2004 9:20:45 PM EST
I held one today at a local gun shop. The upper and lower are carbon (plastic). It's really light but we'll have to see how it wears in the long run! Super light though!
Link Posted: 10/8/2004 9:21:53 PM EST

Originally Posted By Dragnet:
I held one today at a local gun shop. The upper and lower are carbon (plastic). It's really light but we'll have to see how it wears in the long run! Super light though!



carbon wears a lot better than metal.
Link Posted: 10/8/2004 9:28:21 PM EST
Yeah but.....even the lightest CF upper and lower builds (Vulcan CF) aren't as light as the Bushmaster....... The new Bushmaster Carbon 15 Model 4 which is made with a CF lower and upper weighs a portly 5.95 lbs...

www.bushmaster.com/shopping/Carbon15/az-c15m4pst.asp

....how is the Bushmaster Lady getting down to 3.9lbs?!?!?! I know that chicks like to diet but....man! AoD
Link Posted: 10/8/2004 9:54:47 PM EST

Originally Posted By AoD:
....how is the Bushmaster Lady getting down to 3.9lbs?!?!?! I know that chicks like to diet but....man!

AoD



the entire stock assembly is carbon. Maybe some other factors, like a skinny barrel.
Link Posted: 10/9/2004 4:41:35 AM EST
Also bolt carrier is shorter, buffer tube and stock are carbon unlike th vulcan. also the handguards are carbon not zytel.

BTW, my carbon 15 97S because of its light weight has recoil somewhere between a M4 clone with RAS and an AK47 clone. Just in case you are thinking of buying one for your wife, girlfriend etc. If she kinds the recoil from an AK is ok, then this should be fine.
Link Posted: 10/9/2004 5:56:25 AM EST
Ronin....so you're saying the carrier itself is shorter than standard? Any idea how much that saves in weight? I'm guessing that they're using a carbine buffer......

What I was trying to do was a lightweight build with the Vulcan CF Upper and lower, CF handguard, and Bushmaster ULW barrel...... I'd like to get as close as possible to the weight of the Carbon 15, but I was just wondering how/why they were SO much lighter than anything else out there.....

Thanks,
AoD
Link Posted: 10/9/2004 7:02:46 AM EST
I have a C15 T97. The carrier is different. The spring is different and the buffer is different. The barrel is fluted. There is no front sight post. The buttstock is plastic. And so is pretty much everything else. I think the only metal parts are the springs, trigger group, barrel, and bolt/carrier. I gotta take it out this weekend and really put it through its paces.
Link Posted: 10/9/2004 8:04:26 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/9/2004 8:05:10 AM EST by JohnnyEgo]
Differences of the Carbon, from a previous post...


Originally Posted By JohnnyEgo:
So before the ban, I tried interchanging stocks and uppers. Things worked pretty well in terms of swapping the uppers and lowers. Stock changeover was a bit more difficult due to the funky shape of the carbon lower's proprietary stock tab. So the ban sunsets, and I have the opportunity to try again. I used the ACE M4 SOCOM stock. NewARGuy was kind enough to let me test it at his shop. Worked flawlessly. All you need to swap stocks is the correct buffer, spring, and a standard bolt carrier. The Carbon Bolt works fine in the standard carrier. Here's some picks for anyone contemplating the same thing.
www.johnnyego.com/stockconv.jpg



Link Posted: 10/9/2004 8:23:48 AM EST
Hummm....looks like the carrier has been milled out at the back to lighten it up....plus a lighter spring and buffer...... I wander if I could use an aluminum carrier like this......

www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/store/ProductDetail.aspx?p=7583&title=AR-15+LOW+MASS+BOLT+CARRIER

to get the same effect? Then use an aluminum gas block (No fixed site) and J point site to get the lightest AR possible.....

AoD
Link Posted: 10/9/2004 8:29:57 AM EST

aluminum gas block


This might cause some trouble for you sooner then later.
Link Posted: 10/9/2004 10:23:02 AM EST
Cans4you......why? Any problems with these that I should know about?

www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/store/ProductDetail.aspx?p=7592&title=AR-15+ADJUSTABLE+GAS+BLOCK

Thanks,
AoD
Link Posted: 10/9/2004 11:20:38 AM EST
Differential heating and expansion of alminum and steel will casue gas leaks and malfunctions. You must use a steel gas block for reliability.
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 6:52:23 AM EST
But I know some makers use aluminuim for gas blocks......do you only get problems after the barrels heat up? Or are they just making the aluminuim gas blocks for people that don't know any better?

AoD
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 8:29:56 AM EST
The Vulcan and the original Carbon 'whatever' weighed so little for the same reason that shit floats.

The jury is still out on the Bushy Carbon 15, but strong odors have already been detected.
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 9:35:57 AM EST

Originally Posted By Str8shot:
The Vulcan and the original Carbon 'whatever' weighed so little for the same reason that shit floats.

The jury is still out on the Bushy Carbon 15, but strong odors have already been detected.



Own one, Eh?
I own a Carbon 15, and don't seem to have any problems.
The moderator of this forum has one, and doesn't seem to have any problems.
I'd be curious to hear about your personal experiences with the rifle. Maybe a little something factual?

I use mine at the FDCC shoots every month. No jams, no malfunctions. Mine also sees extensive range use every week. No jams, no malfunctions. Carbon Fiber being inert, all I have to clean on a range session basis is the bolt and barrel. The handguards remain cool despite heavy use. Like everything, the rifle has it's good and bad parts. I would have felt more comfortable with an ejection port cover and a buffer retainer. No one's going to bash down doors with it. However, it is an accurate, very light weight rifle that is a joy to shoot.

The only strong odor I smell is from your unqualified post.
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 4:57:49 PM EST
JohnnyEgo, how many rounds do you figure you've put through your rifle?
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 5:04:28 PM EST
My Professional Ordnance Carbon 15 has it's share of problems. Not quite ready for prime time.


theotherdave who posts here had his Bushmaster Carbon 15 fail about 1,000 rounds out.
Link Posted: 10/16/2004 6:50:06 AM EST

Originally Posted By protozo1:
JohnnyEgo, how many rounds do you figure you've put through your rifle?



Before the stock change-over, 550 in .223 and 1050 in .22.
After the stock change-over. 700 in .223 and 1250 in .22.
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