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Posted: 8/19/2005 1:51:10 PM EDT
I've shot only a few types of 5.56/.223 ammunition over about a year through my Bushmaster M4ergy. These include;
-PMC 55gr
-UMC 55gr
-Winchester 40rd. Value Pack
-Boxed XM193

Of those, the XM193 looks like the crappiest of them. The cases are discolored, dents and dings are apparent in the cases and the bottom of cases were the primer set feature different colors. If I wear to show this ammunition to anyone that doesn't frequent the board, half of them wouldn't shoot it. Heck, Wolf appears to be of higher quality than XM193 and yet I still pay outrageous prices just to shoot XM193. Why? Cause I gotta be a "cool commando" .

Honestly I shoot XM193 because it seems like it has a little more "oommphh" to it than the other types of ammo I have shot. Bigger fireball out of my old mini Y-Comp and XM193 seems louder than the others which is good.

But if you were to look at this ammo from an objective state, as a hick hunter for example, you would cringe at XM193. Dings and discoloration coupled with weird looking primers out of boxed ammuntion that is realtivly expensive compared to other types of blasting ammo would be if a huge no-no if I didn't come to AR-15.com. So what makes this ammo so good?



*I am not trying to start a flame or anything, I just want your opinion. I shoot XM193 all the time, just need a little justification as to why I do it.
Link Posted: 8/19/2005 1:54:46 PM EDT
M193 is a military round, and consequently isn't subjected the final polishing stage during assembly like most commercial ammunition is.

Commercial ammunition needs to look "pretty", mil ammo doesn't.
Link Posted: 8/19/2005 1:55:07 PM EDT
1) more reliable fragmentation
2) it's sealed


Neither of the above really matter if you're just plinking with it.

Link Posted: 8/19/2005 1:56:02 PM EDT

Originally Posted By CJan_NH:
M193 is a military round, and consequently isn't subjected the final polishing stage during assembly like most commercial ammunition is.

Commercial ammunition needs to look "pretty", mil ammo doesn't.



Why the small dents in the brass though?
Link Posted: 8/19/2005 2:27:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Death_006:

Originally Posted By CJan_NH:
M193 is a military round, and consequently isn't subjected the final polishing stage during assembly like most commercial ammunition is.

Commercial ammunition needs to look "pretty", mil ammo doesn't.



Why the small dents in the brass though?



Who cares? It doesn't affect performance. And that is why XM193 is better than all the other brands/types of ammo you mentioned. Who cares if it's ugly as long as it works. That's why I own Glocks. If I wanted pretty, I'd buy something else...
Link Posted: 8/19/2005 2:31:09 PM EDT
What's a hick and where are they hunted?
Link Posted: 8/19/2005 2:32:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Death_006:
... But if you were to look at this ammo from an objective a purely superficial, performance-unrelated state, as a hick hunter for example, you would cringe at XM193. Dings and discoloration coupled with weird looking primers out of boxed ammuntion that is realtivly expensive compared to other types of blasting ammo would be if a huge no-no if I didn't come to AR-15.com. So what makes this ammo so good? ...



FIXED it for you.
Link Posted: 8/19/2005 3:31:40 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Death_006:
I've shot only a few types of 5.56/.223 ammunition over about a year through my Bushmaster M4ergy. These include;
-PMC 55gr
-UMC 55gr
-Winchester 40rd. Value Pack
-Boxed XM193

Of those, the XM193 looks like the crappiest of them. The cases are discolored, dents and dings are apparent in the cases and the bottom of cases were the primer set feature different colors. If I wear to show this ammunition to anyone that doesn't frequent the board, half of them wouldn't shoot it. Heck, Wolf appears to be of higher quality than XM193 and yet I still pay outrageous prices just to shoot XM193. Why? Cause I gotta be a "cool commando" .

Honestly I shoot XM193 because it seems like it has a little more "oommphh" to it than the other types of ammo I have shot. Bigger fireball out of my old mini Y-Comp and XM193 seems louder than the others which is good.

But if you were to look at this ammo from an objective state, as a hick hunter for example, you would cringe at XM193. Dings and discoloration coupled with weird looking primers out of boxed ammuntion that is realtivly expensive compared to other types of blasting ammo would be if a huge no-no if I didn't come to AR-15.com. So what makes this ammo so good?



*I am not trying to start a flame or anything, I just want your opinion. I shoot XM193 all the time, just need a little justification as to why I do it.



Stop buying it now. Tell all your friends too. No one should be seen with mags loaded full of that ugly stuff. Plus there'll be more for me.
Link Posted: 8/19/2005 3:52:04 PM EDT
Q3131A is prettier if pretty ammo is your thing.
Link Posted: 8/19/2005 5:04:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Death_006:

Originally Posted By CJan_NH:
M193 is a military round, and consequently isn't subjected the final polishing stage during assembly like most commercial ammunition is.

Commercial ammunition needs to look "pretty", mil ammo doesn't.



Why the small dents in the brass though?



This ammo is being burned faster than it can be made.
High speed handeling is the cause of the various dings.
Commercial machines run MUCH slower and extra care is given to the case to keep them looking pretty.
Look at the cases after you fire them... no dents will be evident.
The visual standard for mil-spec ammo would amaze you! (or disgust you if you want picture perfect ammo.)

The discoloration is due to annealing. Commercial ammo is annealed and polished afterwards.
Military ammo is annealed and left as it... dull. an added benefit in the field.

Also XM196 is hotter... hotter equals more velocity and pressure.
More pressure adds to dependability.


Hope this helps.
Link Posted: 8/19/2005 6:56:29 PM EDT
I just got out of the Marine Corps less than a year ago. Up until recently, I wasn't into all this what type of ammo should I use in my AR craze. But, I can tell you without a doubt in my mind. The ammo that I got to shoot on the rifle range was of a much better appearance than the XM193 I have been buying as a civilian. It wasn't as highly polished as some of the commercial stuff. But it surely didn't have all the discoloration, dings, scratches and excessive sealant that I see on the stuff I am getting now. Just my observation.
Link Posted: 8/19/2005 7:24:18 PM EDT
You should probably read The Ammo Oracle before posting here. There is a sticky at the top asking you to. Did you bother to review those?
Link Posted: 8/19/2005 9:45:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/19/2005 9:47:31 PM EDT by YELLOWV]
Your totally right....... That is if you enjoy looking at ammo more than you do shooting it. XM193 performs better than any of the other ammo you mentioned. That is why we all love it. Do we love it b/c it is military ammo and makes us feel like super commandos? Perhaps but I think it is due to the fact that military ammo is loaded hotter, is awesomely reliable despite it's horrible looks and is also a great defense round. That is why it's so universally accepted.
Link Posted: 8/19/2005 9:58:53 PM EDT
I dont care what it looks like, I care that it works and works everytime

XM193 fits that bill
Link Posted: 8/19/2005 11:29:31 PM EDT
because it just kicks ass!
Link Posted: 8/20/2005 5:31:36 AM EDT

Other than the fact that it shoots smells and feels like the ammo I had in the military, nothing great about it. Other than the fact it is cannelured, accurate, hot and reliable, of course.

Boxed XM193 and XM855. can't get enough of the stuff.

Link Posted: 8/20/2005 4:16:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/20/2005 4:20:47 PM EDT by P-245]

Of those, the XM193 looks like the crappiest of them. The cases are discolored, dents and dings are apparent in the cases and the bottom of cases were the primer set feature different colors. If I wear to show this ammunition to anyone that doesn't frequent the board, half of them wouldn't shoot it. Heck, Wolf appears to be of higher quality than XM193 and yet I still pay outrageous prices just to shoot XM193. Why? Cause I gotta be a "cool commando" .

Why is XM193 like this? Because it is the failed reject ammo the Government refuses to accept when ATK screws up a lot of the ammo for one reason or another. ATK is stuck with it since the Government will not pay for it. So ATK sends it to Federal, one of its subsidiaries, to market/sell it to the public rather than dispose of it; and not lose $$ on reject ammo.

Just be sure to inspect every single round before you shoot it. I suggest you make these checks at a minimum:
- There is powder in the cartridge (shake it).
- The primer is there and flush with the base of the cartridge case.
- The bullet is inserted properly.
- The dents and dings are not sufficient/large enough to cause a malfunction.
- The cartridge case is clean - no gunk on it to cause a stoppage.

The 20-round boxed XM193 and XM855 is of better overall quality than the bulk packaged (500 & 1000 rounds) XM193PD and XM855PD ammunition.
Link Posted: 8/20/2005 5:35:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By P-245:

Of those, the XM193 looks like the crappiest of them. The cases are discolored, dents and dings are apparent in the cases and the bottom of cases were the primer set feature different colors. If I wear to show this ammunition to anyone that doesn't frequent the board, half of them wouldn't shoot it. Heck, Wolf appears to be of higher quality than XM193 and yet I still pay outrageous prices just to shoot XM193. Why? Cause I gotta be a "cool commando" .

Why is XM193 like this? Because it is the failed reject ammo the Government refuses to accept when ATK screws up a lot of the ammo for one reason or another. ATK is stuck with it since the Government will not pay for it. So ATK sends it to Federal, one of its subsidiaries, to market/sell it to the public rather than dispose of it; and not lose $$ on reject ammo.

Just be sure to inspect every single round before you shoot it. I suggest you make these checks at a minimum:
- There is powder in the cartridge (shake it).
- The primer is there and flush with the base of the cartridge case.
- The bullet is inserted properly.
- The dents and dings are not sufficient/large enough to cause a malfunction.
- The cartridge case is clean - no gunk on it to cause a stoppage.

The 20-round boxed XM193 and XM855 is of better overall quality than the bulk packaged (500 & 1000 rounds) XM193PD and XM855PD ammunition.



Sure. But the boxed XM193, rejected or not, is still better than much of the "pretty" commercial ammo out there.
Full military strength, not watered down.
Link Posted: 8/20/2005 5:57:41 PM EDT
XM193 (from what I understand) is stuff that is rejected from a Quality standpoint for military purposes. It may be sealant, it may be out of spec in some way (powder charge, overall length, etc.) it may have failed some rigid quality spec that does not make it unsafe to shoot.
Or, it may be that it was put "on hold" at the manufacturer because of a problem with a specific machine that day, etc. In fact, the dings and dents in a certain lot of ammo may be the very reason that it is scrapped for military use, and boxed and sold to civilians.
I work in a food manufacturing facility, and it's the same with us. Sometimes our product may not pass Quality standards due to appearance, slight deviation in recipe, etc. It is still perfectly good to eat, but not up to par for the company standard. Sometimes it is destroyed, some times it is given to employees. I feel that the XM193 is the same scenario, still good, but not quite up to ideal standards.
If this is true, (and if my assumptions are not, then please let me know) then it would stand to reason that it is kind of strange for XM193 to be "The Standard" by which all AR ammo is measured considering it is "defective". But it is the closest thing to legitimate M193 we can have.
The reason for its acceptance are many:

1. Military Use- After all, it is the standard round that was in use by Nato before the SS109 / M855 took over. Anything that is used by the US military is always perceived as the best. People generally assume that the US military will not use "Junk" for very long.

2. Cost - It is relatively inexpensive when compared to other similar rounds.

3. Effectiveness - It works!! Good at stopping bad guys, excellent for military use, good penetration, etc. It fragments reliably and has good wound ballistics.

Link Posted: 8/20/2005 7:28:08 PM EDT
I wish all guys choose their women this way.


Originally Posted By dpmmn:
I dont care what it looks like, I care that it works and works everytime

XM193 fits that bill

Link Posted: 8/20/2005 7:32:09 PM EDT

Originally Posted By H53EXPERT:
I just got out of the Marine Corps less than a year ago. Up until recently, I wasn't into all this what type of ammo should I use in my AR craze. But, I can tell you without a doubt in my mind. The ammo that I got to shoot on the rifle range was of a much better appearance than the XM193 I have been buying as a civilian. It wasn't as highly polished as some of the commercial stuff. But it surely didn't have all the discoloration, dings, scratches and excessive sealant that I see on the stuff I am getting now. Just my observation.



That's because you're being issued the Grade 1 ammo, and we civvies are getting the Grade 2 and 3 that the govt didn't accept.
Link Posted: 8/20/2005 7:38:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/20/2005 7:39:17 PM EDT by PBIR]
There is much better ammo out there for non-practice applications but not at that pricepoint.
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