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Posted: 10/9/2005 5:04:09 PM EDT
1. Low recoil  
2. High round count
3. Lightweight
4. Multiple Countries use it
5. New NATO/EU countries rechambering their weapons for it
6. Cheap to produce
7. Multiple weapons in arsanel use it
8. LE and Military can use same ammo to lower cost
9. We are at war and Logistics would be a nightmare to introduce the weapon
10.  Jarheads bought M16A4's instead of the HK416
11. Marine General now Chief of staff
12. Only the Army is looking at replacing its m16's the rest are keeping them.
13. Interoporability of the same weapons and ammo a plus for DOD
14. Last...Congress will not let military have more money to buy new toys for awhile that is not already in the Supply system.

These are just my thoughts of a person getting into the famous black rifle and what I have learned from being a Logistics Officer.

PS...I cannot get anyone cheap M855 ammo. I am still trying to get them to look the other way so I can just get some cases.

Scott
Link Posted: 10/9/2005 5:09:35 PM EDT
concur except on logistics of fielding a new system.  It was done in the 60's so that proves if the mil wants something bad enough, it gets done...
Link Posted: 10/9/2005 5:44:49 PM EDT
There are still contracts for the M4 into 2008 5.56 is not going anywhere anytime soon.They just need a better 5.56 round.Maybe our government should get the balls and not participate in the hague convention we could issue every soldier 77 grain hollow points like SOCCOM  gets
Link Posted: 10/10/2005 3:51:57 AM EDT

Originally Posted By pun: Maybe our government should get the balls and not participate in the hague convention we could issue every soldier 77 grain hollow points like SOCCOM  gets


As far as I know, Open Tip Match bullets (what you refer to as hollow points) are legal for open warfare according to DoD JAG.  We should dump M855 and replace it with Mk 262 Mod whatever RFN.  
Link Posted: 10/10/2005 4:00:54 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ffhounddog:

10.  Jarheads bought M16A4's instead of the HK416

Scott





How would this impact the "new round or not" question?

Just curious.........

Link Posted: 10/10/2005 5:18:20 AM EDT

Originally Posted By redfisher:

Originally Posted By ffhounddog:

10.  Jarheads bought M16A4's instead of the HK416

Scott





How would this impact the "new round or not" question?

Just curious.........




While the choice of one vs the other doesn't have an impact, the fact that the USMC has just spend a ton of money on new 5.56 rifles does.
Link Posted: 10/10/2005 6:09:19 AM EDT
What requirement is there for a new round?  That is where you should look first, not at why they can't or shouldn't.  

G
Link Posted: 10/10/2005 7:06:38 AM EDT
Tag
Link Posted: 10/10/2005 7:12:44 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/10/2005 7:23:51 AM EDT by _DR]
With the increasing used of the MK 262 Mod 1 ammunition, I think 5.56mm will be used for many years to come. This 77gr SMK cartridge is like day and night compared to M855 and M193. Accurate out to 800M, permanent wound cavity 2 inches larger, anecdotally it drops the BGs with a single shot vs multiple shots often being required with M855.

I posted a powerpoint on it a while back let me see if I can find it.
Link Posted: 10/10/2005 7:14:02 AM EDT
There WILL be a new round released...

It's the 8.7 SPC!
Link Posted: 10/10/2005 7:14:11 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/10/2005 7:25:36 AM EDT by _DR]
AH here it is.
This is 2 years old, but valid, and MK 262 is proving itself in the sandbox right now as I type this.
This covers the MK 262 MOD 1 and MOD 0 compared to the M855 (current cartridge). The MOD 1 is the same as MOD 0 except it now has the cannelure, which is important. AA53 is DOD designation for the MK 262. The MK 262 is a far better cartridge than M855, as you can see below:























Link Posted: 10/10/2005 10:28:24 AM EDT
Well yes a new 5.56 mm round is needed but a new round like 6.8 or 6.5 in my mind is not needed. And the 262 is a good one (I have 5 rounds here at home) and a real good round for the future.  Now I Just need to get a AR to shoot.  (FYI I have a AK and i prefer the AR and I have just shot the military ones that are 15 years old.)
Link Posted: 10/10/2005 1:59:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By pun:
There are still contracts for the M4 into 2008 5.56 is not going anywhere anytime soon.They just need a better 5.56 round.Maybe our government should get the balls and not participate in the hague convention we could issue every soldier 77 grain hollow points like SOCCOM  gets




+1!!!
Meanwhile, they could issue some A-max .308 to the M14 boys in the unit also!!
Link Posted: 10/10/2005 3:01:17 PM EDT
I am wondering why they did not show the frag of a 55 grain 193 rounds at 50 yards? Was it better or worse?
Link Posted: 10/10/2005 5:00:45 PM EDT
Becasue like 75 grain Hornady ammo its not an option.  The military no longer uses M193.  Going back to M193 would be a huge mistake IMO.  If you are goin go to buck NATO ammo go to the 77 grain ammo thats already part of the system.
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