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Posted: 9/27/2004 10:56:50 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/27/2004 10:57:17 AM EST by Southern_Raider]
I've been calling around to gather suppressor info. Is it normal to be charged the list price for a suppressor and be charged the $200 transfer tax on top of that? i.e. $935 for a Gemtech M4-96D including the first transfer tax.
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 12:05:21 PM EST
coke bottle + insulation + duct tape = $0

NFA transfer $200

Total cost $200

Link Posted: 9/27/2004 12:24:58 PM EST
You pay the manufacturer for the suppressor itself.

You're responsible for forking over the $200 tax to uncle sam.
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 12:30:32 PM EST
First, you should be able to get a suppressor for a lot less than the retail price. I gave hundreds less for one of mine than the MSRP. If your dealer wants full retail price, find a new dealer.

Second, yes, you have to pay the $200 tax to the BATF on every suppressor purchase you make.
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 1:55:47 PM EST

Originally Posted By M4Madness:


Second, yes, you have to pay the $200 tax to the BATF on every suppressor purchase you make.



Each time? Shit...I thought it was a license of sorts. There goes that dream.
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 3:28:47 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/27/2004 3:33:45 PM EST by Southern_Raider]

You're responsible for forking over the $200 tax to uncle sam.

Actually, the seller is legally responsible for the tax. My issue is that everyone local wants to charge list price and pass on the transfer tax to me.

This is an issue of what should a suppressor cost vis-a-vis list price. I guess the immediate answer is "not list". I do understand the tax issues.

Anybody know of someone in NV that won't charge list for a suppressor?
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 4:50:30 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/27/2004 4:54:15 PM EST by rocko]
Well, I only have two cans so far, but from what I've seen, at or close to MSRP isn't all that uncommon around these parts. It doesn't seem all that competetive a market - there's only a couple of dealers within driving distance that I'm aware of than stock any cans, and among those very little product overlap. Therefore, they're pretty much free to charge what they want. You may be able to find something out of state a bit cheaper, but you're talking a longer wait (assuming the local dealer already has something in inventory) and the cost savings is probably going to wash from the transfer fee you'll need to pay to your local dealer anyway.

While the tax is getting to be not so much of a hardship anymore, the process is still indimidating to most folks. Therefore, I think civilian sales are still relatively low volume, which means that the average dealer probably isn't getting much of a huge volume discount anyway. Couple that with the extra work involved, say vs. a title I sale... If can isn't going to bring a greater profit margin than a title I gun and you aren't going to sell many of them, I wouldn't see much reason to bother, as a dealer. Which could perhaps be why there doesn't seem to be that much competition in the market, and we go round and round....

Yes, while the tax may legally be the responsibility of the transferor, for all practical purposes, that never happens. And if it does, it is only because the seller has already adjusted the base price to include this. Also, in your original post, you mention the first transfer tax. As long as you aren't purchasing the can from a non-licensee, there is only one tax. Which is why it is pretty much pointless to ever buy a used can.
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 6:15:25 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 6:50:01 PM EST
I heard Gem-Tech's dealer price is approximately $100 below the MSRP. Does anyone know if that is pretty accurate?
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 6:55:11 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/27/2004 6:55:31 PM EST by Southern_Raider]

Originally Posted By David_Hineline:
...or if you want me to be the frigging bank and inventory items for you to choose from I am going to charge list. You want a discount become a dealer.


This I don't have too much of a problem with. However, the people I've been calling don't have stock, want me to pay everything up front and play with my money for 6 months until I can finally take delivery. Apparently, some of your brethern want me to be the bank. Maybe that's just par for the course in the NFA world, hence the original question.

BTW, I didn't intend this thread to become a flame war over proper business practices, margins and the justification of profit. I'm just trying to find out what is the norm here.
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 7:31:17 PM EST
It's too bad no manuf makes a can where the internals are interchangeable for use with other calibers..... hell, I'd pay $1200 for something like that if the internals for other calibers was like $250-300 per caliber.... just to avoid paying for the damned tax multiple times.
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 5:02:11 AM EST

Originally Posted By Rob_M:
It's too bad no manuf makes a can where the internals are interchangeable for use with other calibers..... hell, I'd pay $1200 for something like that if the internals for other calibers was like $250-300 per caliber.... just to avoid paying for the damned tax multiple times.


Unfortunately, you'll never see such a thing as long as the ATF ruling on suppressors stands. i.e. Any part/sub-component of a suppressor is legally a suppressor.
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 5:20:30 AM EST

Originally Posted By Southern_Raider:
I've been calling around to gather suppressor info. Is it normal to be charged the list price for a suppressor and be charged the $200 transfer tax on top of that? i.e. $935 for a Gemtech M4-96D including the first transfer tax.



$725+$200= $925 total cost of suppressor. It will cost more if Gemtech has to put the Bilock on for you.
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 5:53:22 AM EST

This I don't have too much of a problem with. However, the people I've been calling don't have stock, want me to pay everything up front and play with my money for 6 months until I can finally take delivery. Apparently, some of your brethern want me to be the bank.


Well actually using the Gemtech as an example you have to pay the $725 + local sales tax for your dealer to buy the can from Gemtech in order to receive it. Dealer to Dealer transfer usually only takes about three weeks. Once your dealer has the can you then have to send in your form 4 paperwork WITH the $200 dollar tax up front (usually a check YOU make out to BATF, not your dealer), and the serial number of the specific can you are buying. Then you hurry up and wait for BATF to approve your paperwork.

Maybe your dealer wants all this money up front so you will be more motivated to complete your paperwork and send it in in a timely manner. Plus the serial number for "your" can goes on the paperwork, so it is not like he can wait until your paperwork goes through and then get you a can. Somebody has to sit on that money. If it is not the customer then you run into the problem of someone changing their mind. If you own it, from the get go, you are more likely to hurry up and do your papers, and the dealer is not out any money. He also never got to play with your money because he paid Gemtech for the can and you paid the BATF the $200 bucks.

Hope that makes more sense.
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 5:55:50 AM EST

Originally Posted By Southern_Raider: Is it normal to be charged the list price for a suppressor and be charged the $200 transfer tax on top of that?



***It is common practice in the industry (I don't know of any shops that don't) to charge the tax separately. Sometimes, on a $10k plus machinegun, the tax becomes such an afterthought it's thrown in, but for 99% of transfers, tax is just that - tax. Prices shown anywhere in any industry rarely would be shown including sales tax, tag fees (autos), transfer taxes, property taxes (houses), etc.

Any suppressor shown from a manufactuer's website would show a suggested retail price, because very often the manufacturer isn't the one selling it to you - your in-state dealer is.

Tax just goes along with purchases. The product costs what the product costs, and the tax is between you, the seller, and the BATFE.


Kel
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 6:34:46 AM EST

Originally Posted By Southern_Raider:

Originally Posted By Rob_M:
It's too bad no manuf makes a can where the internals are interchangeable for use with other calibers..... hell, I'd pay $1200 for something like that if the internals for other calibers was like $250-300 per caliber.... just to avoid paying for the damned tax multiple times.


Unfortunately, you'll never see such a thing as long as the ATF ruling on suppressors stands. i.e. Any part/sub-component of a suppressor is legally a suppressor.



I disagree. If it could be made the product could be marketed as a 3-in-1 package with all 3 calibers included. Naturally I'm not the ATF, and they may see fit to rule otherwise, but I am confident there is a way around that. The flip side however, is that a 3-in-1 would probably cost a good deal more than $1200 and you'd probably find that 2 separate cans with 2 transfer taxes would be more ecconomical than a single 3-in-1.
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