User Panel
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Posted: 7/11/2016 1:38:54 PM EDT
Is this a go, a no go, or does it depend on some other factor (overall length of weapon) if it's legal or not? Are the angled magpul grips treated differently by the law compared to one of the vertical type grips? (see pics below)
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Posted: 7/11/2016 1:51:52 PM EDT
[#1]
A forward pistol grip makes the firearm an NFA-restricted "Any Other Weapon" requiring a tax stamp.
The Magpul grip is just something hold on to. |
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Posted: 7/11/2016 1:53:48 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
A forward pistol grip makes the firearm an NFA-restricted "Any Other Weapon" requiring a tax stamp. The Magpul grip is just something hold on to. OK so basically what you are saying is that any type of vertical grip/handle is a no go on a pistol and makes it AOW. But an angled magpul grip, or hand "tab" type grip is good to go? Damn, these laws are confusing.....and make no sense. |
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Posted: 7/11/2016 1:56:42 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
OK so basically what you are saying is that any type of vertical grip/handle is a no go on a pistol and makes it AOW. But an angled magpul grip, or hand "tab" type grip is good to go? Damn, these laws are confusing.....and make no sense. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
A forward pistol grip makes the firearm an NFA-restricted "Any Other Weapon" requiring a tax stamp. The Magpul grip is just something hold on to. OK so basically what you are saying is that any type of vertical grip/handle is a no go on a pistol and makes it AOW. But an angled magpul grip, or hand "tab" type grip is good to go? Damn, these laws are confusing.....and make no sense. If l remember correctly if the length of the pistol from end of pistol buffer tube to end of barrel is 26" or greater a normal front vertical grip is fine. If less than 26" then any grip that is considered an angled forward grip like the one above from Magpul, or the Bravo Company one, or the Seekins one, etc. is fine. |
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Posted: 7/11/2016 2:26:28 PM EDT
[#4]
Angled grips like the AFG are good to go on pistols of any length.
Vertical fore grips on an AR pistol = AOW, however, if your pistol is >26 inches from the end of the receiver extension (buffer tube) to the muzzle (not including muzzle device unless it is permanently attached), then attaching a VFG re-classifies it into a "firearm", which is not a configuration regulated by the NFA and still a title 1 firearm. So if your overall length is over 26", you may attach the VFG freely. |
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Posted: 7/11/2016 2:48:12 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Angled grips like the AFG are good to go on pistols of any length. Vertical fore grips on an AR pistol = AOW, however, if your pistol is >26 inches from the end of the receiver extension (buffer tube) to the muzzle (not including muzzle device unless it is permanently attached), then attaching a VFG re-classifies it into a "firearm", which is not a configuration regulated by the NFA and still a title 1 firearm. So if your overall length is over 26", you may attach the VFG freely. This is the correct answer I would add two things in "firearm" configuration its no longer a pistol and therefore must be treated as a firearm. Second some state laws may forbid adding a verical fore grip. Generally AFG and handstops are fine on any pistol. |
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Posted: 7/11/2016 2:54:13 PM EDT
[#6]
1) An AFG is not a vertical foregrip.
2) Attaching a vertical foregrip to a handgun makes it an AOW, no longer a handgun, and subject to NFA. 3) A firearm with an overall length longer than 26" is not a handgun. |
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Posted: 7/11/2016 2:58:50 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If l remember correctly if the length of the pistol from end of pistol buffer tube to end of barrel is 26" or greater a normal front vertical grip is fine. If less than 26" then any grip that is considered an angled forward grip like the one above from Magpul, or the Bravo Company one, or the Seekins one, etc. is fine. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
A forward pistol grip makes the firearm an NFA-restricted "Any Other Weapon" requiring a tax stamp. The Magpul grip is just something hold on to. OK so basically what you are saying is that any type of vertical grip/handle is a no go on a pistol and makes it AOW. But an angled magpul grip, or hand "tab" type grip is good to go? Damn, these laws are confusing.....and make no sense. If l remember correctly if the length of the pistol from end of pistol buffer tube to end of barrel is 26" or greater a normal front vertical grip is fine. If less than 26" then any grip that is considered an angled forward grip like the one above from Magpul, or the Bravo Company one, or the Seekins one, etc. is fine. /thread |
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Posted: 7/11/2016 3:07:51 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 1) An AFG is not a vertical foregrip. 2) Attaching a vertical foregrip to a handgun makes it an AOW, no longer a handgun, and subject to NFA. 3) A firearm with an overall length longer than 26" is not a handgun. Just a point of order, Simply being >26" isn't what makes a "pistol" a "firearm". It's both being over that length and ALSO having the VFG that does it. If your "pistol" is simply >26", it is still a pistol. There is no federal max length for pistols. |
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Posted: 7/11/2016 3:10:04 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If l remember correctly if the length of the pistol from end of pistol buffer tube to end of barrel is 26" or greater a normal front vertical grip is fine. If less than 26" then any grip that is considered an angled forward grip like the one above from Magpul, or the Bravo Company one, or the Seekins one, etc. is fine. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
A forward pistol grip makes the firearm an NFA-restricted "Any Other Weapon" requiring a tax stamp. The Magpul grip is just something hold on to. OK so basically what you are saying is that any type of vertical grip/handle is a no go on a pistol and makes it AOW. But an angled magpul grip, or hand "tab" type grip is good to go? Damn, these laws are confusing.....and make no sense. If l remember correctly if the length of the pistol from end of pistol buffer tube to end of barrel is 26" or greater a normal front vertical grip is fine. If less than 26" then any grip that is considered an angled forward grip like the one above from Magpul, or the Bravo Company one, or the Seekins one, etc. is fine. This is correct. |
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Posted: 7/11/2016 7:04:57 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
OK so basically what you are saying is that any type of vertical grip/handle is a no go on a pistol and makes it AOW. But an angled magpul grip, or hand "tab" type grip is good to go? Damn, these laws are confusing.....and make no sense. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
A forward pistol grip makes the firearm an NFA-restricted "Any Other Weapon" requiring a tax stamp. The Magpul grip is just something hold on to. OK so basically what you are saying is that any type of vertical grip/handle is a no go on a pistol and makes it AOW. But an angled magpul grip, or hand "tab" type grip is good to go? Damn, these laws are confusing.....and make no sense. You know that, I know that, everyone else here knows that. The whole how it's used thing on an AR pistol brace is BS too. If I put the left wood grip on my HP against my opposite shoulder does that make it a stocked pistol? Perhaps we need 50k letters asking that point. |
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Posted: 7/12/2016 4:59:45 PM EDT
[#11]
Does the 26" measurement include the fh/comp or is it from the muzzle to end of buffer tube?
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Posted: 7/12/2016 5:03:41 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
OK so basically what you are saying is that any type of vertical grip/handle is a no go on a pistol and makes it AOW. But an angled magpul grip, or hand "tab" type grip is good to go? Damn, these laws are confusing.....and make no sense. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
A forward pistol grip makes the firearm an NFA-restricted "Any Other Weapon" requiring a tax stamp. The Magpul grip is just something hold on to. OK so basically what you are saying is that any type of vertical grip/handle is a no go on a pistol and makes it AOW. But an angled magpul grip, or hand "tab" type grip is good to go? Damn, these laws are confusing.....and make no sense. You are correct. |
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Posted: 7/12/2016 5:43:46 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Does the 26" measurement include the fh/comp or is it from the muzzle to end of buffer tube? The muzzle device is only included in the measurement if it is permanently attached with a blind pin, silver solder, etc. |
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Posted: 7/12/2016 5:50:06 PM EDT
[#14]
I find it comical how fucking stupid all of this AFG/VFG and Pistol/SBR/AOW shit is to be honest. The NFA/BATF is a fucking clown car, they purposely make this the way it is.
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Posted: 7/12/2016 5:55:47 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I find it comical how fucking stupid all of this AFG/VFG and Pistol/SBR/AOW shit is to be honest. The NFA/BATF is a fucking clown car, they purposely make this the way it is. This isn't the ATF's fault, it's all based on the wording of how the laws are written. If you want someone to blame, blame congress.  |
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Posted: 7/12/2016 9:13:39 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The muzzle device is only included in the measurement if it is permanently attached with a blind pin, silver solder, etc. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Does the 26" measurement include the fh/comp or is it from the muzzle to end of buffer tube? The muzzle device is only included in the measurement if it is permanently attached with a blind pin, silver solder, etc. Thanks. |
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Posted: 7/13/2016 12:17:22 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Angled grips like the AFG are good to go on pistols of any length. Vertical fore grips on an AR pistol = AOW, however, if your pistol is >26 inches from the end of the receiver extension (buffer tube) to the muzzle (not including muzzle device unless it is permanently attached), then attaching a VFG re-classifies it into a "firearm", which is not a configuration regulated by the NFA and still a title 1 firearm. So if your overall length is over 26", you may attach the VFG freely. What if it's a gun like the MCX pistol and it doesn't have a buffer tube? Where are the measurements? |
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Posted: 7/13/2016 1:24:27 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
1) An AFG is not a vertical foregrip. 2) Attaching a vertical foregrip to a handgun makes it an AOW, no longer a handgun, and subject to NFA. 3) A firearm with an overall length longer than 26" is not a handgun. Only once a VFG is attached. |
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Posted: 7/13/2016 1:26:49 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This isn't the ATF's fault, it's all based on the wording of how the laws are written. If you want someone to blame, blame congress.
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I find it comical how fucking stupid all of this AFG/VFG and Pistol/SBR/AOW shit is to be honest. The NFA/BATF is a fucking clown car, they purposely make this the way it is. This isn't the ATF's fault, it's all based on the wording of how the laws are written. If you want someone to blame, blame congress.
Which is why the Sig brace opinion is crap. |
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Posted: 7/13/2016 3:45:01 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This isn't the ATF's fault, it's all based on the wording of how the laws are written. If you want someone to blame, blame congress.
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I find it comical how fucking stupid all of this AFG/VFG and Pistol/SBR/AOW shit is to be honest. The NFA/BATF is a fucking clown car, they purposely make this the way it is. This isn't the ATF's fault, it's all based on the wording of how the laws are written. If you want someone to blame, blame congress.
You know, congress, the type of firearms experts who use phrases like " the shoulder thing that goes up" |
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Posted: 7/13/2016 3:46:30 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What if it's a gun like the MCX pistol and it doesn't have a buffer tube? Where are the measurements? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Angled grips like the AFG are good to go on pistols of any length. Vertical fore grips on an AR pistol = AOW, however, if your pistol is >26 inches from the end of the receiver extension (buffer tube) to the muzzle (not including muzzle device unless it is permanently attached), then attaching a VFG re-classifies it into a "firearm", which is not a configuration regulated by the NFA and still a title 1 firearm. So if your overall length is over 26", you may attach the VFG freely. What if it's a gun like the MCX pistol and it doesn't have a buffer tube? Where are the measurements? Not sure if serious? |
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Posted: 7/13/2016 5:17:16 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What if it's a gun like the MCX pistol and it doesn't have a buffer tube? Where are the measurements? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Angled grips like the AFG are good to go on pistols of any length. Vertical fore grips on an AR pistol = AOW, however, if your pistol is >26 inches from the end of the receiver extension (buffer tube) to the muzzle (not including muzzle device unless it is permanently attached), then attaching a VFG re-classifies it into a "firearm", which is not a configuration regulated by the NFA and still a title 1 firearm. So if your overall length is over 26", you may attach the VFG freely. What if it's a gun like the MCX pistol and it doesn't have a buffer tube? Where are the measurements? It's measured from end to end regardless. |
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Posted: 7/13/2016 10:26:00 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's measured from end to end regardless. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Angled grips like the AFG are good to go on pistols of any length. Vertical fore grips on an AR pistol = AOW, however, if your pistol is >26 inches from the end of the receiver extension (buffer tube) to the muzzle (not including muzzle device unless it is permanently attached), then attaching a VFG re-classifies it into a "firearm", which is not a configuration regulated by the NFA and still a title 1 firearm. So if your overall length is over 26", you may attach the VFG freely. What if it's a gun like the MCX pistol and it doesn't have a buffer tube? Where are the measurements? It's measured from end to end regardless. Yep, ass end is "extreme rearward point of the firearm". - OS |
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