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Posted: 5/1/2004 4:14:58 PM EST
Since I got my AR back in mid Dec. I've been working on a case of XM-193. For one reason, it looked like great plinking ammo to get situated with my first AR, and second, it is pretty "hot" and it seemed it would be a great ammo to break in my chrome lined varminter (Yes, it IS chrome lined, special order, sorry, I just always get as reply "Varminter aren't chrome lined") with.

Here is the problem. After shooting around 600 rounds, I've been waiting for the groups to sort of "pull in" a bit. Now, I do understand, this is miliatary ammo, fast, and hot, not your "precision" ammo by any means. But I was hoping I could achieve somewhere around 1 MOA or so after the chrome was well and polished.

So far, I've been getting inconsistant and jumpy groups. I reload, and have pretty much just been waiting to get this case through the barrel before I start rolling my own, but I was just curious, what kind of accuracy do most of you get from this XM-193? Better than say 1.5-2.0 MOA??

I bought the Varminter , well, for some varmint hunting, but also to punch some paper with. I opted for the chrome lined because it will see some harsh conditions, and some mil-spec ammo ect, conditions I would feel worried bringing an un-chromed match grade barrel (std. varminter) around.

I guess more than anything, I'm just hoping that it's normal for me to be getting somewhat poor groups from this ammo as I was hoping I could pull this thing into around .5-75 MOA with my handloads.

Link Posted: 5/1/2004 4:24:33 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/1/2004 4:26:36 PM EST by dmk0210]
I've been getting sub MOA from XM-193 with my RRA 16" midlength (not chrome lined).

I think my best group so far was about 7/8" at 100 yards shot from a bench rest with optics. It can do pretty close to that all day long if I do my part.

Link Posted: 5/1/2004 5:45:03 PM EST
1~1.25 MoA if the shooter does his job.
Link Posted: 5/1/2004 7:58:15 PM EST
On a good day my varmint rifle (not chromelined) will shoot 1-1.25 MOA with XM193. I would say it consistantly averages 1.5-2.0 in my gun.

The same gun will shoot less than .5 inch 100yd groups with 52, 55, 68, 69 grain handloads and Walmarts Winchester 45gr JHP.
Link Posted: 5/1/2004 8:22:28 PM EST
Link Posted: 5/1/2004 8:52:01 PM EST
I've been getting some really good groups with XM193 through mine, sub-moa. But that's from a SUM barrel.

I gotta agree with Troy, though. This ammo is pretty much max'd out mil-spec, nowhere even close to the production standards as match ammo. With that said, it has performed somewhat consistently for me, though.
Link Posted: 5/1/2004 9:50:02 PM EST
I admit, I am not completely familiarized with my AR yet, so that could be part of the problem. However, I can consistantly shoot under MOA w/my bolt guns, but the AR is kind of different breed, maybe something I need to just get used to.

My best group was about 1.5MOA, so maybe I'm still okay. Plus, I'm here in Kansas and I've never shot the thing on what I would call a "calm" day (the wind ALWAYS blows this time of year), and I know I have to get used to this 55 grain stuff not bucking the wind like the 130-170 gr. stuff I'm used to shooting out of my bolt guns.

Thanks for the info. I think a little more practice with the AR and some better ammo could yield the results I want.

Link Posted: 5/2/2004 8:12:30 PM EST
I would recommend trying some of the Black Hills stuff if you are looking for accuracy. I have had good luck with their Blue Box 52 grain and 69 grain match rounds. Prices are reasonable too.
Link Posted: 5/3/2004 7:38:17 AM EST
Not uncommon with XM193, which is why Q3131A is my storage/SHTF ammo of choice. It simply groups tighter in my rifles, Colt ,Bushmaster, DPMS and J&T.

This is also why I preach, shooting several differing types of surplus ammunition PRIOR to purchase of quantities, to be certain your getting the best choice for your rifle, as not all rifles are the same or shoot the same with identical ammo.

FWIW, groups are not THAT much smaller at 100 yards w/ Q3131A, but are more consistent with less fliers and functions 100% in my M4 rifles. (In my 24" 1/9 CR6724, Q3131A shoots 0.75 MOA @ 100 yards, the small bit I have shot. I mostly shoot accuracy loads in the stainless steel barreled Colt.)

That said there is absolutely nuthin wrong with XM193, albeit tarnished and dented it is without a doubt the hottest mil-spec M193 available.

Link Posted: 5/3/2004 5:34:14 PM EST
xm193 is moa ammo
it is definitely hot too
varminters from bushmaster are all chrome lined
unless you get the specail edition heavy chrome moly barrel then it
is not chrome lined
Ive shot both and you should be happy with either
the only thing I didnt like was the heavy barrel weighs a ton
Link Posted: 5/3/2004 5:58:48 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/3/2004 5:59:27 PM EST by mcole]
last fall i decided to try my 16" bushmaster for accuracy with the xm193. i used 8 shots at 100 yds. 5 were in the center 1" and 3 more were in the 2" center. that is good enough for me. i kept and still have that target. mcole
Link Posted: 5/3/2004 6:20:50 PM EST
I'm BRAND NEW to AR's, so I bought:

3K Wolf 55gr
1K Wolf 62gr
1K Winchester Q3131A
1K Federal Lake City XM193

For my Armalite 20" SPR.

I've mostly been shooting at 50yds & 100yds but I find I can hit more consistantly with the Wolf 55gr than XM193. The noise / recoil of XM193 is significantly more than the Wolf 55gr.

Link Posted: 5/4/2004 10:30:17 AM EST

Originally Posted By Troy:
XM193 is really 2 MOA ammo. It may shoot somewhat better than that in some rifles, but it is a max loading, which are never especially accurate. Also, if you don't regularly shoot 1 MOA or better with other guns, it may be a lot to expect you to shoot that well with an AR, even if the gun itself is capable. It takes some pretty developed shooting skills to shoot that well.


Exactly right. This isn't sub-moa ammo but rather combat ammo. Nothing wrong with your rifle at all. My results are about the same with XM193 and yet my Oly PCR1 will shoot sub MOA all day long with my handloads.
Link Posted: 5/4/2004 11:38:17 AM EST
I get about 2.5 MOA with XM193 out of my RRA 16" non-chrome lined AR, off a bench with irons.

Link Posted: 5/4/2004 2:27:36 PM EST
My experiance with xm193 and Federal AE 55gr. fmjbt is best results with Bushmaster barrels marked 1/9. 193 performing better than the AE. The ammo [193] is good quality though hot. If your Varmint does not like it, try the win. 45gr. hp varmint packed 40 per box. That would be my next step. Also, 52gr. black hills blue box. Good luck.
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