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Posted: 6/4/2005 4:17:52 PM EDT
Doing CQB ready ups this morning and had a total failure of my weapon. Doing some research on this board it seems it was a matter of time before someone had a problem. I wish I would of had a warning prior to my "Balistic Dissasembly". Total removal of the left side of my upper reciever, bulged the lower reciever and cracked it at the mag release button and behind the front takedown pin, pushed the ejection port cover out, sheared off the bolt carrier release, and blew up my last 20rounder. Yhe bolt carrier has mushroomed at the end and the bolt has "bloomed" like a lily. Send this stuff back from where it came! learn from me! In my 15 years in the Army I have seen a few of these "incidents". This one was a doozy! WEAR EYE PRO! I had a huge chunk hit my left lens and I got powder burned around my cheeks and lips. Im ok otherwise.
Hope this helps
Wade
Link Posted: 6/4/2005 4:22:04 PM EDT
Pics?
Link Posted: 6/4/2005 4:23:35 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/4/2005 4:25:54 PM EDT
I would love too, but I dont have and internet host thing! If you can give me a link so I can post them, I would be happy too.
Wade
Link Posted: 6/4/2005 4:27:23 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/4/2005 4:27:44 PM EDT
Send them to me and I will host them.
Link Posted: 6/4/2005 4:33:23 PM EDT
Glad to hear that you weren't injured!!
Link Posted: 6/4/2005 4:43:11 PM EDT
E-mail sent hope it works.
I have well over 2000 rounds thru that rifle with zero problems. Thursday I had a squib. Primer popped, but the bullet stayed loged against the lands. I rodded it out and wrote it off as a chance misfire, after all its Federal ammunition. Wish I would have stopped then. I believe I had a weak charge that did not push the bullet completely thru, which allowed the next round to chamber and fire. If i wasn't practicing "controlled pairs" I would have probably felt it. Thank God no one was standing next to me.
Wade
Link Posted: 6/4/2005 4:52:36 PM EDT
Lets get those pics up. I would also be happy to host them for you.
Link Posted: 6/4/2005 4:54:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/4/2005 4:56:14 PM EDT by wmruch]
Link Posted: 6/4/2005 4:56:19 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/4/2005 4:57:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/4/2005 5:00:23 PM EDT by Colt_SBR]
wmruch's photos.









Colt_SBR
Link Posted: 6/4/2005 4:57:31 PM EDT
[http://www.kodakgallery.com/BrowsePhotos.jsp?&collid=49332110208&page=1&sort_order=0]
Link Posted: 6/4/2005 4:59:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/4/2005 5:07:32 PM EDT by SGB]
Link Posted: 6/4/2005 5:01:42 PM EDT
Thanks SGB!
Link Posted: 6/4/2005 5:04:49 PM EDT
I'm only getting red X's
Link Posted: 6/4/2005 5:06:52 PM EDT
since you were using factory ammo, olypic arms should replace it, I would contact Oly
Link Posted: 6/4/2005 5:07:07 PM EDT
I see them now. HOLLY SHIT!!! Thats sucks. No more XM193PD for me. Only boxed or I'm sticking to Black Hills blue box.
Link Posted: 6/4/2005 5:09:53 PM EDT
Yeah, I hope. Gonna contact Oly monday, Im sure they will treat me right. Parts of the case are still in there, If you look real hard you can still see the rim with headstamps still intact.
Wade
Link Posted: 6/4/2005 5:11:25 PM EDT
Wow, what at a mess.

Glad you hear you were not seriously injured.
Link Posted: 6/4/2005 5:28:52 PM EDT
WOW..Reminds me of a girl i dated in hi-school.



Glad ya okay.
Link Posted: 6/4/2005 5:35:17 PM EDT
OMFG! Damn!

Federal needs to quit selling that shit, somebody is going to get hurt.

Link Posted: 6/4/2005 6:04:42 PM EDT
All red X's...where the pics go?
Link Posted: 6/4/2005 6:05:47 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/4/2005 6:07:42 PM EDT
While attending the Blackwater arfcom class we were told about a kB they had while using this stuff. They also said they are trying to get Federal to buy back 100k rounds of it because of the high instances of squibs.

I thought the warnings in the XM193PD thread were pretty clear, but perhaps we need a tacked thread warning about this stuff?
Link Posted: 6/4/2005 6:15:44 PM EDT
Unfortunately I had never heard of any problems because I was not an ar15.com member. I was just an average consumer buying what I thought was a Quality name brand product. I found out about problems after my rifle blew apart, and I did a web search, and found ar15.com and the thread.
Wade
Link Posted: 6/4/2005 6:17:45 PM EDT
tag and ouch!
Link Posted: 6/4/2005 6:22:59 PM EDT
For those guys who said it is more dangerous shooting a right handed rifle left handed, look a the pics. Notice where the most damage was? On the left side of the upper. The right side has a natural vent, which IMO makes it safer for a lefty.
Link Posted: 6/4/2005 6:31:16 PM EDT
[shocked] Wow!!! Glad you're ok. Thanks for posting that.
Link Posted: 6/4/2005 7:42:08 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/5/2005 8:48:22 AM EDT by wyv3rn]
Original wistle blower checking in.. sorry the word didn't reach you in time. Man that's just awful. Glad you are doing better than the rifle.
Link Posted: 6/4/2005 8:11:38 PM EDT
hock.gifOuch!
Thank God you're OK. Let us know how it plays out after you contact Oly.
Link Posted: 6/4/2005 11:32:38 PM EDT
Sucks to learn about it the hard way... What are your recourse options?
Link Posted: 6/4/2005 11:44:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/5/2005 2:41:41 PM EDT by npd233]
That's BS that Federal sells that crap that could easily do this to anybody's rifle. Federal should stop selling that shit. If it don't pass quality control so that it can be real XM193, don't %$&#! sell it as "training ammo"!
Link Posted: 6/5/2005 12:08:54 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/5/2005 12:09:23 AM EDT by RKBAUseItorLoseIt]
I went through 500 rounds of XM193PD and found twenty where the bullet was seated way too deep into the cartridge.


As long as you go through the ammo by hand, the rest of it should be good no?


By the way, sorry to here about this man. That sucks, at least you weren't injured.
Link Posted: 6/5/2005 12:28:33 AM EDT
damn

sorry about your AR, glad you're alright
Link Posted: 6/5/2005 1:15:05 AM EDT
and thanks for signing up to share the experience too. Welcome to ARFCOM.
Link Posted: 6/5/2005 3:33:17 AM EDT
Man, glad you are OK. Good advice too re EYE PROTECTION, QUALITY EYE PROTECTION WHEN SHOOTING ANYTHING.
Link Posted: 6/5/2005 4:31:47 AM EDT
Man that Pisses me Off! Im So Sorry!

#1 Go to your company tell them what the Factory Ammo DID!

DO NOT say you heard a squib becase THEY WILL SAY its your Fault for not seeing if bullet is stuck!

I would Delete any evidence that they could use agiants you.


I look at that PD as Sweepings and didnt pass QC!
FEDERAL SHOULD of known better and should pay.

I hope you Get a Brand New Rifle!
But be carefull what you SAY to Them!
Link Posted: 6/5/2005 5:34:22 AM EDT
Is the BBL blown also? Any bulging at all? Can you run a rod down to the chamber? Interesting to say the least.
Link Posted: 6/5/2005 6:11:34 AM EDT
Damn
Link Posted: 6/5/2005 7:03:33 AM EDT
Holy malfunction BAT MAN!hock.gif Glad to see you are ok. "Live to shoot another day", that is what counts. Thanks for the pics. Go get them bastards.
Link Posted: 6/5/2005 8:35:32 AM EDT
Link Posted: 6/5/2005 8:41:24 AM EDT
everytime I see one of these the more and more I trust my own reloads and less any factory ammo
Link Posted: 6/5/2005 8:48:55 AM EDT

Originally Posted By RKBAUseItorLoseIt:
As long as you go through the ammo by hand, the rest of it should be good no?



I've shot 2k of XM193PD in the last 6 months. I checked every round as it was loaded into the mag by visually confirming that the cannelure was aligned with the case mouth, that the case mouth itself was not distorted and that the bullet looked OK. I ended up rejecting probably about 1% of the rounds. The rest fired just fine and were pretty accurate. I did suffer about half a dozen instances of fail-to-fire in my 3-gun rifle, but I attribute those malfunctions to the lighter springs of the JP trigger in that rifle... I had no light strikes with stock FCG parts.

Would I buy XM193PD again ? Probably not. Even with the lower price, having to check each round is a hassle that I'd rather not deal with for a saving of $30-40/k. For range use (which is all I would trust this for) there is plenty of comparatively priced .223 ammo that does not have these quality issues. For 5.56, I'll stick with boxed XM193 or Q3131A. YMMV.
Link Posted: 6/5/2005 11:23:31 AM EDT

Originally Posted By brouhaha:
I've seen more than one Olympic Arms rifle in this condition from standard .223. They don't get high marks in my book for their quality.

No offense, but right now it doesn't seem that we know for sure that the ammo was the culprit (although a squib is very suspect).

It's possible that you had a bolt failure as well.

Glad you made it with all your fingers and eyes.


Very suspect? Are you saying the rifle was of poor quality and thats why it blew up? You have to be kidding? That kind of detonation says one thing and one thing only! barrel obstruction.
I may have only a few posts here, but I have had a m16/m4 in my hand since 1990. I have seen at least 5 of these. All but one ( mine) were Military service rifles. And all were caused by barrel obstructions, either dirt or another bullet. I knew someone was going to blame the rifle or the manufacturer of the rifle.
Link Posted: 6/5/2005 11:50:35 AM EDT

Originally Posted By fxntime:
Is the BBL blown also? Any bulging at all? Can you run a rod down to the chamber? Interesting to say the least.


Yes the barrel is slightly bulged about 1/3 from the chamber. The majority of the case is stuck in the chamber but of course the ass end of the round is gone. A large chunk of the rim is floating between what used to be the bolt and the "star" area of the chamber. Yes the bullet/s exited the barrel. When I was on the trail as a Drill Sergeant, every time we had an incident like this the Post Saftey guy never found bullets in the barrels. I have also seen rifles fire when the round was not completely in battery. Usually the mag shoots out the bottom and the upper reciever bulges on the right side and about half the shell remains in the chamber, and the bullet is stuck somewhere in the bore.
Wade
Link Posted: 6/5/2005 1:30:50 PM EDT

Originally Posted By brouhaha:
I've seen more than one Olympic Arms rifle in this condition from standard .223. They don't get high marks in my book for their quality.

No offense, but right now it doesn't seem that we know for sure that the ammo was the culprit (although a squib is very suspect).

It's possible that you had a bolt failure as well.

Glad you made it with all your fingers and eyes.


While I agree that it is impossible to point fingers based on internet postings and pictures, I have to say the leading possibility is the ammo. There are too many instances of squib loads with the XM193PD. And I know of at least one instance where this very scenario played out with a Bushmaster and it was directly attributable to the ammo, also XM193PD.
Link Posted: 6/5/2005 1:44:09 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/5/2005 1:46:40 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/5/2005 1:47:18 PM EDT by wyv3rn]
I hadn't heard of the squibs until this thread. When I did my initial inspection & investigation (which led to the wistle blowing thread) I pulled down quite a few rounds. The sealant on many rounds appeared to be EXCESSIVE compared to pulled down boxed XM193. Some of it had drips extending down into the powder and the powder had clumped itself all over and inside the tarish case sealant. At the time I was worried about contamination and squib loads due to this, but I was paying much more attention to the rounds where the bullets were dangerously setback into the case. Now I think I have my answer.
Link Posted: 6/5/2005 1:51:09 PM EDT
Oly likes tight chambers...

193 does not.
Link Posted: 6/5/2005 3:12:50 PM EDT

Originally Posted By wmruch:
Unfortunately I had never heard of any problems because I was not an ar15.com member. I was just an average consumer buying what I thought was a Quality name brand product. I found out about problems after my rifle blew apart, and I did a web search, and found ar15.com and the thread.
Wade



Don't beat yourself up too badly.

Look at my signup date and post count. And this is the first I've heard of this problem.

Now I have to scurry off and check the 6 or so boxes of XM193 I have to see if they're PD.
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