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Posted: 10/28/2004 5:52:08 PM EST
I am getting ready to purchase a varmiter upper and I wanted a few opinions. I am mainly looking at RRA and J&T for the upper. First, I can't decide on length. I plan on shooting around 400yds. My first instinct was to get the 24 bull barrel". Talked to a gunsmith today, and he said that much barrel weight on the front of the AR upper was a lot, and I would be better off with a 18 or 20. J&T even offers a 22". I am not really concerned about weight, I want to get the most out of the rifle.

Next question, I want it to last a long time. I am meticulous about cleaning my firearms. Stainless or chrome/moly for this application?

Please give me some ideas. I have a couple other AR's, and I want to add the varmiter to the list. That RRA lower is lonely all by itself on the shelf in the safe. It wants to get an upper, and get down an mingle with the others..

Thanks...
Link Posted: 10/28/2004 5:54:05 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/28/2004 5:55:12 PM EST by fight4yourrights]


Many manufacturers sell 24" barrels. Unless that baby is 2" diameter, don't worry about it.


I have to say though, my 1st AR was a bushy 24" vmatch. It's the gun I shoot the least. Too big/heavy.

I'm going to sell the upper once I get around to posting it up. Accurate gun, but too big/heavy for my shooting.
Link Posted: 10/28/2004 6:03:11 PM EST
Wilson 24" SS barrel, you will like it !!
Link Posted: 10/29/2004 2:48:53 AM EST
i have a 16" varmint and it ,s pretty heavy, but great on the bench. that said, i wish it was a 20", but i traded for it & its fluted so ill probably keep it. M.O.A. is not a problem with good ammo.later
Link Posted: 10/29/2004 3:52:33 AM EST
Thanks for the replies. I have 5 other AR's in various configurations. This one is going to be my sit at the bench, or on the hill, and plug away at small targets 200-400 yds out.

I have got enough room in the safe for the 24". I am just wondering if there is that much difference in a 20 and 24. I can always cut it off, but it's hard to add it back.
Link Posted: 10/29/2004 7:29:37 AM EST
Go for the 20". I have one, and it is heavy enough! The 24" aint going to get you any better accuracy, only marginally better velocity.
Link Posted: 10/29/2004 3:47:33 PM EST
I bought a DSC 20" SS upper (AKA J&T) last month at the Charlotte show. Plan to get to the range this weekend. Send me a reminder email and I'll let you know my thoughts Sunday night. Always good to see another NC're on ARF.
Link Posted: 10/29/2004 5:00:56 PM EST
I will do that sig. Thanks
Link Posted: 10/31/2004 12:03:30 PM EST
I have questioned this as well wondering if an extra four inches was worth it,even if i got it fluted for weight purposes. Ive talked to my freinds about it and most sad its the difference between driving tacks and missing at 600 m+ ... I say go for the longer 1, if its on a bench its not gonna be to heavy.
Link Posted: 10/31/2004 1:17:30 PM EST

Originally Posted By Bushy-Shooter:
Ive talked to my freinds about it and most sad its the difference between driving tacks and missing at 600 m+



That is absolute moronic bullshit..... and they dont know what they are talking about.
Link Posted: 10/31/2004 1:26:25 PM EST
The only way that the longer barrel could increase accuracy would be by adding velocity and increasing ballistic coefficient. Since a 24 inch barrel adds almost no velocity, it adds no accuracy, only weight.

Seth
Link Posted: 10/31/2004 3:22:28 PM EST

Originally Posted By 9sigman45:
I bought a DSC 20" SS upper (AKA J&T) last month at the Charlotte show. Plan to get to the range this weekend. Send me a reminder email and I'll let you know my thoughts Sunday night. Always good to see another NC're on ARF.




Well Sothernshooter, I finally got my new "varmiter" outside today! After 4 or 5 shots to align the scope (new RRA mount installed last Thur.) and cleaning the barrel, I really impressed myself. I've never claimed to be a sharp shooter, but more than once today I had two out of three shots touching! Of course more often than not the other seemed to open the groups up to around 1.5". All shooting was done @ 100 yards with cheap wally world Winchester 55gr "white box" ammo. Best 3 shot group was 0.5". All in all I'm pleased so far with this Double Star Co. (J&T) upper. Once I find what reload the rifle likes best, I'll extend the range to see if I can keep it around MOA. I guess by now you know that my suggestion would be to go for the J&T/DSC!
Link Posted: 10/31/2004 6:07:48 PM EST
Southernshooter,

I recently got a RRA 24inch SS Bull Upper in 1/12 for shooting 55gr bullets.

Like you, I have others for other uses. This varmint upper is a dedicated off-the-bag gun. It is heavy (front heavy), and I wouldn't want to carry it around all day, but that's not what I bought it for...

I haven't shot it much yet, but what I have seen so far suggests that it will be a great shooter!

More later.

P.S. You will get another 100fps minimum over the 20inch barrel. For a cartridge that "kills" by velocity, get the longer barrel. Longer does not necessarily mean more accurate (I have a friend with a M600 Rem. with a 1 1/2 inch diameter 16inch barrel that is about as accurate a gun as I have ever seen), but it does mean a quicker killer out a little farther...

Link Posted: 10/31/2004 6:23:11 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/31/2004 6:24:04 PM EST by Exude]
A longer barrel is less accurate than a short one (more barrel whip). A faster bullet can make up for that difference in wind but if your only gaining 100fps that isn't a lot so I would think go with the 20". To answer your other question stainless barrels are more accurate than chrome moly (stainless machines better).
Link Posted: 10/31/2004 7:18:10 PM EST

A longer barrel is less accurate than a short one

I guess that's why almost all dedicated varmint rifles have 24" barrels.
Link Posted: 11/1/2004 3:53:46 AM EST

A longer barrel is less accurate than a short one (more barrel whip).


HUH.....?????


how much barrel whip can a 24" heavy possibly have.... the only "whipping" that I see the 24" SS on my Panther 308 is the "whoopin" that it puts on coyotes.... I doubt that barrel whip is much of an issue with the heavy stainless barrel....

Link Posted: 11/1/2004 9:28:46 AM EST
You also may want to check this out....

White Oak Armament and look on the front page, regarding the .204 Ruger. FPS / ballistics look pretty damn good for a varmint gun.
Link Posted: 11/1/2004 11:09:31 AM EST
Exude said;


A longer barrel is less accurate than a short one (more barrel whip). A faster bullet can make up for that difference in wind but if your only gaining 100fps that isn't a lot so I would think go with the 20". To answer your other question stainless barrels are more accurate than chrome moly (stainless machines better)


100 FPS can make a big difference down range in delivered energy and also in wind resistance (dependant on BC of course), but nonetheless it can and will make a difference.

Stainless is no more intrinsically accurate than chrome moly, SS tends to be more difficult to work with but the most important is how the metal was stress relieved and how was it rifled (broachet, hammer forged, button rifled, etc.). Stainless steel will resist erosion better than chrome moly so the throat will last longer as will useable accuracy, it also is more resistant to rust, those are the main resons for SS being used, not necessarily better accuracy.

Barrel lentgh has nothing to do with accuracy per se, it has to do with harmonics, allowing the barrel to vibrate freely (hence a free floated barrel being more accurate than a fully bedded or one with standard handguards, etc. which will throw off the harmonics and shift or flex the barrel), a stress relieved barrel either through heat treatment or chryogenically will shoot better as the molicules in the steel have been uniformly aligned which will allow the barrel to vibrate in a consistent manner producing more consistent shot placment, that is of course if the shooter is capable of using the added accuracy potential of the barrel.

I have used a number of varmint configurations, 24" DPMS SS bull barrel (that one needed a gun bearer with it), 16" SS Hbar (heavy for size but still light and accurate), 20" Bushy Vmatch (nigh on perfect for walking the fields, very handy length but still an Hbar), 20" fluted SS bull barrel (damn near as heavy as the 24", fluting on this one didnt make much difference) and now what I believe is the best I have personally carried yet, a Bushy 24" Vmatch Hbar with deep fluting like the varminter upper (4" longer than 20"Vmatch but much lighter, lighter than a Colt 20" Hbar plus that wee 100FPS gain that makes a huge difference on woodchucks out to 450 or 500 yards).

The best part of the Vmatch is getting a match grade barrel that isnt shiny and has a chrome lined bore, 1/2 moa at 100 yards with handloads and Barnaul steel cased ammo, light and only a little longer than an A2 makes this a perfect woodchuck rifle for me, plus it still has enough weight for bench shooting.

One last thing, no matter what you get for an upper you better have a good trigger, the best upper money can buy wont be worth squat without good trigger control. At minimum buy a Rock River Arms 2 stage match, they are very nice and affordable, if you can afford it go up the scale to a Jewell or similar, you wont believe how beautiful a trigger like that can be, my Jewell is better than a Canjar single set trigger I have on a custom .220 swift, you just cant shoot well with a gritty 10 pound trigger.

Jeff
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