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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 9/25/2005 2:41:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/28/2005 6:19:47 PM EDT by EMSflyer]
Someone gave us a bunch of PMP 55 gr. It was in the boxes and looked OK to me.

Had constant extraction isues with it today.

My shorty Bushmaster has always been very reliable with various types of 5.56 & .223 ammo.

I am wondering if my extractor spring is getting weak. Or, is this ammo not sized correctly somehow?

Anyone else have trouble with the PMP?

What's a good replacement spring for the extractor?

Just got my M14 sorted out and now Bushy is acting up, what a pain in the ass. Especially since the Bushy is my go to gun if things go "bump" in the night. Taught the wife to shoot it too.

Thanks.

Flyer....
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 3:13:21 PM EDT
Ammo is the culprit.. Id bet the farm..
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 4:52:43 PM EDT
Bump for more feedback.....
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 4:58:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/25/2005 5:00:33 PM EDT by Reload_em]
My buddy showed up at camp with about 200 rounds of the PMP ammo. We had one "failure to feed" and I believe that his magazine was the culprit. I had never seen "PIMP" ammo before this. The stuff seemed to work okay but we didn't have enough of it for a good sample.
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 5:27:12 PM EDT
I have run 300 rounds of PMP through my 14.5" Bushie with no problems
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 6:19:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/25/2005 6:38:52 PM EDT by oneshot1kill]
I would look at the ammo first, try some other ammo and see if it continues to have the same problem. If it still happens, then check your weapon -extractor spring and insert- replace them with new parts.

ETA:
I'm assuming your weapon was clean before you went to the range.

Link Posted: 9/26/2005 10:31:39 AM EDT
Yes, my weapon was clean before we went to the range.

I even cleaned it again while at the range to see if that was the problem and it still continued
to have extraction problems.

I'll try to pick up some GI spec ammo and see if it runs OK on that.

How hard is it to change the extractor and spring? The extractor still looks OK to me but if I change the spring I'll prob put in a new extractor as well.

Fly safe,

Flyer
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 10:40:38 AM EDT
Easy to switch extractors and springs. Just take out the bolt and push out the rollpin, and then replace.
Link Posted: 9/28/2005 6:19:21 PM EDT
Well today I tried it with some S & B M193, which has always worked well in this gun before.

Result: More failures to extract.

This time as luck would have it my Dad was with us. Dad was an Armorer/Ordanance guy in the USAF back in the Cold War days and has worked on all types of weapons from M1 carbines to nuke weapons.

Pops confirmed it was an extractor issue by looking at gun and fired brass.

Must be more rounds through this thing than I thought.

Will be placing an order for parts tomorrow.

Who has the bestest heavy duty extractor and spring?

Thanks,

Flyer
Link Posted: 9/28/2005 8:58:17 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/29/2005 12:35:02 AM EDT
PMP is weaker than most, but extracts fine in my system. I'd bet money a heavy duty extractor spring or simply an o-ring will solve your problem.

You can get a replacement spring from wolff gunsprings directly. gunsprings.com/
Link Posted: 9/29/2005 1:10:49 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/29/2005 5:09:46 AM EDT
What is this "black spring insert" they mention in the description of the Wolff Extra Power extractor spring?

Do you really need one?

Thx,

Flyer
Link Posted: 9/29/2005 6:36:30 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/29/2005 6:42:08 AM EDT by oneshot1kill]

Originally Posted By EMSflyer:
Yes, my weapon was clean before we went to the range.

I even cleaned it again while at the range to see if that was the problem and it still continued
to have extraction problems.

I'll try to pick up some GI spec ammo and see if it runs OK on that.

How hard is it to change the extractor and spring? The extractor still looks OK to me but if I change the spring I'll prob put in a new extractor as well.

Fly safe,

Flyer



Great advice so far. Normally you won't have to change the extractor lug itself, just the spring/insert combo.


Go with the Extra Power Wolff Extractor Spring as previously mentioned by David_Hineline, you can get the harder black insert seperately at SAW

You want the Wolff Extra Power M4 Carbine spring. That should take care of your problem.

SAW also sells the (Colt) HD extractor spring and insert assembly as a pair or individually. If you already have the black insert then it's cool to replace just the spring. If you have a blue insert, get a black insert and spring.
Also, there's another solution that some have used, no personal experience with it but take a look here D-Fender extraction

Removing the extractor is simple. With carrier assembly in hand;

1) Remove the bolt from carrier;

2) Press down slightly on extractor -just above pin near bottom- and push pin out. Don't lose the pin!

Now you have the extractor lug in hand, and extractor spring is attached to it.

3) Twist and pull up on the extractor spring, it will pop right out. The insert is just sitting there and usually falls out when you remove spring.

To install new insert/spring assembly on extractor lug;

1) Place black insert in the extractor lug first, put spring over it and push down. The spring/insert will stay in place now.

2) With bolt in hand, place extractor lug back into the bolt, apply a little pressure to line up the pin holes, push pin back in.

The rest is -bolt in carrier- reassembly.

Good Luck EMSflyer, and report back when you get a chance.

Edited before Spelling Nazis got me.
Link Posted: 9/29/2005 7:16:26 AM EDT

Originally Posted By EMSflyer:
Yes, my weapon was clean before we went to the range.

I even cleaned it again while at the range to see if that was the problem and it still continued to have extraction problems.......


How hard is it to change the extractor and spring? The extractor still looks OK to me but if I change the spring I'll prob put in a new extractor as well.........

Flyer




If you have never taken the extractor and spring out before, then it can't possibly be clean. That should be a routine part of your cleaning process. Your problem may be as simple as having some debris stuck under the extractor, causing it to malfunction. I'd try cleaning it first, before I started replacing parts.

Good luck.
Link Posted: 9/29/2005 9:37:12 AM EDT
Well, I embarassed to say that I've never had the extractor off the bolt.

I'll do that tonight if I don't have to fly.

Good chance that some junk is under the extractor.

I should have thought of that myself (kicks self in ass).

Thanks,

Flyer
Link Posted: 9/29/2005 11:15:57 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/29/2005 11:31:31 AM EDT by chewbacca]
Been hearing alot of this with Bushies lately.

Out of curiousity, would there be any negative effects if one was to use the HD spring w/black insert in conjunction with a O ring?
Link Posted: 9/29/2005 1:08:22 PM EDT
I too am wondering about using the original insert with the Wolff spring.
Link Posted: 9/29/2005 4:12:35 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 4:02:44 AM EDT
Last night I took the extractor out and cleaned the bolt really good. There was quite a lot of gunk in the area under the extractor (carbon, CLP residue and a lot of brass shavings) but it did not look like it was restricting the function of the extractor.

However, it may only take a few thousandth's worth of carbon and brass shavings to hold the extractor too far open.

I cleaned the grove in the extractor and pulled the spring apart just slighty to "freshen" it up a bit. It did seem kind of compressed and worn. There is some wear on the extractor itself but it still looks servicable. I'm going to change both of them anyhow since this carbine has a potential defensive role here at the house.

Thanks for all the help...

Flyer
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 4:17:08 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 9:04:40 AM EDT
Thanks for the download of the tech manual.

I used to have that a long time ago but it went with one of my first AR's in a trade deal.

UPDATE....

I shot my Bushy today at Mom's farm and it woked fine. Maybe it (extractor area) was just dirty. Of course tweaking the old extractor spring prob did'nt hurt.

I picked up a DPMS bolt parts kit today for $15.00. Are the DPMS parts well respected amongst the guys/gals here? If not I can always take the stuff back.

Shoot safe,

Flyer
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