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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 6/13/2005 4:54:47 AM EDT
Just wondering what the general consensus is about this. The variable magnification on the Accupoint is a certain plus, but on the other hand I get the general feeling that its designed more towards hunting/sporting arms and not for rigorous military use. Are they in the same category of "toughness"? I'm really itching for a longer range optic on my 20" (got an EOTech right now), and I really like the Accupoints' variable feature, but it seems like the ACOG is the tried and true solution....
-Mike
Link Posted: 6/13/2005 5:46:31 AM EDT
Link Posted: 6/13/2005 11:20:03 AM EDT
There does not seem to be a lot on these around here. I will kick in what I can-
I am saving for one right now, and a mount myself. Reason being that aside from the adj. mag. feature, the long eye relief and larger triangle at low mag. seem good for many shooting situations. I have one 18" and one 16" car, one of which I am betting will melt together with a 21R.
Link Posted: 6/13/2005 6:02:49 PM EDT
I have an Accupoint and an ACOG so i have some experience with both.Although I feel you can never go wrong with an ACOG, the Accupoint is a great scope, especially for the money.On1.25 it is almost as fast as my Eotech(for me) and on 4 it is as good as my ACOG.I feel that the versatility makes the Accupoint a great scope.It is very well built and like Grant said they are in use in Iraq.I don't know if he still is, but Grant was running a good deal on an Accupoint/SPR-E combo.In my opinion get an Accupoint,I don't think you will be disappointed.
Link Posted: 6/13/2005 6:10:31 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/14/2005 4:24:25 AM EDT
Thanks for the replies, guys. Looks like it may just be the ticket for my Armalite 20"...
-Mike
Link Posted: 6/15/2005 6:22:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/15/2005 6:41:51 PM EDT by Chestwound]

Originally Posted By ALAN308:
There does not seem to be a lot on these around here. I will kick in what I can-
I am saving for one right now, and a mount myself. Reason being that aside from the adj. mag. feature, the long eye relief and larger triangle at low mag. seem good for many shooting situations. I have one 18" and one 16" car, one of which I am betting will melt together with a 21R.



Starting with a post by 2011BLDR on page 2 of THIS THREAD there is very extensive discussion of the merits of the Accupoint TR21.

That thread along with some additional research just sold me on this scope for my M4. Previously I had been dead set on the IOR 1.1-4X.

Link Posted: 7/5/2005 9:46:23 AM EDT
I have an AccuPoint 3-9X40 with the amber. I really like it - the only thing I'd improve would be to add target turrets to it. That was the only negative with this scope.
Link Posted: 7/5/2005 10:06:39 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/5/2005 10:07:10 AM EDT by Ridge]
I have a stupid question, may have missed it in other threads.

Does the Accupoint have any illumination in complete darkness (or extremely low light)?
Link Posted: 7/5/2005 10:11:42 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Ridge:
I have a stupid question, may have missed it in other threads.

Does the Accupoint have any illumination in complete darkness (or extremely low light)?



Yes: tritium in darkness. And fiber optics amplify it during the daylight hours.
Link Posted: 7/5/2005 10:40:26 AM EDT

Originally Posted By jtb33:

Originally Posted By Ridge:
I have a stupid question, may have missed it in other threads.

Does the Accupoint have any illumination in complete darkness (or extremely low light)?



Yes: tritium in darkness. And fiber optics amplify it during the daylight hours.



Thanks jtb33.
Link Posted: 7/5/2005 12:59:56 PM EDT
If I were a soldier again...and young...I would rather have an ACOG than the Accupoint..
I am pretty sure my guys would have killed the Accupoint long before the ACOG :)

The SF guys are older and wiser and general take better care of their gear than the average 18-19 yr
grunt imo ..

I prefer the Accupoint because it suits my needs a bit better than the fixed power...

I shoot varmints around the barn and around the yard..nicer for my old eyes to have the option


YMMV
Link Posted: 7/5/2005 1:24:50 PM EDT
A ruggedized Accupoint with an ACOG Chevron BDC reticle.

Sheer and utter euphoria would result.
Link Posted: 7/5/2005 1:30:00 PM EDT
whats the weight comparison on the two?


tr21-r w/ eer mount
acog ta31 w/larue mount



Link Posted: 7/6/2005 11:02:53 AM EDT
I have both and I like 'em both. That being said, the ACOG at 4x has nearly twice the FOV as the Accupoint at 4x which works out to something like 4x the visible area, so as someone else said it's almost like a 2.5x FOV with 4x mag. The ACOG has constant high magnification but a big field of view, which makes it seem more usable at high mag than the accupoint. The BAC works OK and I put a splash of white paint on the end of right rail protecting the lexan light pipe for really close point-shooting. Catches your eye and happens to line up fine when you are looking over the top of the optic; I'd like to see a bead there or fiber-optic. Probably unconventional but works for me. Also, if you like the nose to charging handle position with a telestock, the loooong eye-relief of the accupoint will have you mounting it way far forward; probably on the FF rail to really make it work. With the mount, this adds a pound and a half forward of the balance point which may be a plus or a minus but for me it's a minus. Maybe using the Armalite mount or the SPR mount on the rail might do it; You defitnitely need the SPR-EER to use it on the receiver. Even then, I think you'd want an A2 stock or the telestock all the way back. I really like the scope but am still trying to figure out the best way to use it (after 2 years, at least). It's almost like you have to build a rifle around the scope. Any ideas on configurations from the folks who have the big parts inventories? I think the Accupoint is a great concept and I know the 3 gun guys use it but I still haven't figured out the best way to maximize it's use. Trying uppers and mounts can get pricey! On the other hand, you buy an ACOG, plop it on and it's pretty much good-to-go.

The Accupoint at 1.25x is great but it's almost harder for me to do the BAC thing with subtle changes in magnification.

My thoughts, YMMV. When in doubt, buy both!

Again, any suggestions on the best rifle set-up to best use the Accupoint would be great! Also, other users experience who have and use both.
Link Posted: 8/14/2005 8:33:47 AM EDT
Tag for reference.
Link Posted: 8/14/2005 10:52:04 AM EDT

Originally Posted By magnum_99:
A ruggedized Accupoint with an ACOG Chevron BDC reticle.




+1
Link Posted: 8/14/2005 1:51:50 PM EDT
i replaced my ta31f with a tr21r. gave up nothing and gained speed up close . also the triangle can be adjusted so you dont get the fuzz from it being to bright. best of all is the price. trijicon also has a rebate going so if you get one from grant or another dealer you get 50.00 off .give it a hard look it was the answer to my needs and might work for you to.
Link Posted: 8/14/2005 2:23:17 PM EDT
Can the TR21 be mounted on a 6920 with the regular front sight, or do I have to get a flip down front sight?

I'm looking for an optic for my 6920 that will be used as a patrol carbine and I really like the TR21 because it is variable power. Or should I get an ACOG?

All of these optic options are confusing.

Thanks

JR1572
Ronnie
Link Posted: 8/14/2005 3:33:30 PM EDT
The triangle RET itself is good but how you measure for long distance shots? I know it is a great scope but I think that was the only downside, no BDC, some hash marks or some dots.

Link Posted: 8/15/2005 5:29:17 AM EDT

Originally Posted By jr1572:
Can the TR21 be mounted on a 6920 with the regular front sight, or do I have to get a flip down front sight?

I'm looking for an optic for my 6920 that will be used as a patrol carbine and I really like the TR21 because it is variable power. Or should I get an ACOG?

All of these optic options are confusing.

Thanks

JR1572
Ronnie­



The TR21 works great on a carbine with a fixed front sight. On a 20, the front sight is visable thru the scope. That's why my carbine has a fixed sight but the 20" flattop got a flip up front sight.
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 8:57:26 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/15/2005 9:00:12 AM EDT by Fenian]

Originally Posted By Nosmik:
The triangle RET itself is good but how you measure for long distance shots? I know it is a great scope but I think that was the only downside, no BDC, some hash marks or some dots.




Somewhere around here, there was some info on using the triangle itself to range with. I remember seeing it, but don't have a clue where it went.

Basically, since you know the size of the triange at different distances, you can use that knowledge to range a target with a known size, ie, 6' human, using the triangle or % of the triangle for holdovers. Something to that effect, anyway.

check this out here:www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=18&t=246079

this could be what I was thinking about.
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 10:10:30 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Nosmik:

Originally Posted By magnum_99:
A ruggedized Accupoint with an ACOG Chevron BDC reticle.




+1



This is impossible just to let you know. The reticle of the Accupoint is just fiber optic cord you see at thte top of the sight split to make a point for a reticle. You cant make a free floating chevron, and no way to make BDC ticks with a hunk of fiber optic cable. By its very deffinition the optic can not be "ruggedised" either with that type of reticle. If you improve body strength and tube diameter it becomes a heavy optic like any of the others out there.

This scope was originally designed to be used as a dangerous game scope. It is a huntig scope and not an optic for war. It will not be redesigned and there are no plans to redesign it. Sales are fine with it configured as it is right now.
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 10:47:58 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/15/2005 10:54:31 AM EDT by Hokie]

Originally Posted By DevL:


This scope was originally designed to be used as a dangerous game scope. It is a hunting scope and not an optic for war. It will not be redesigned and there are no plans to redesign it. nSales are fine with it configured as it is right now.




It was designed as a dangerous game scope. Correct. However, dangerous game comes in many forms. If it can handle a cape buffalo hunt it can handle being utilized as a tactical optic. Is it as rugged as an ACOG? Nope. Will it suffice? Yep, provided your not using your gun as a club.....cause anything can break with enough force, even an ACOG.

I also believe Grant just posted about the Accupoint point being used in the sandbox. I guess we'd better get in touch with those guys overseas and tell em they can't use the Accupoint in war.

No plans to redesign it? Didn't they just come out with a 2.5X10X50mm model using a 30mm tube? I'll answer that for you. Yes.

If you're simply arguing that the Accupoint isn't "as rugged as" the ACOG then sure, you can argue that. Just wondering, are you the senior R&D consultant at Trijicon, Inc.? You're post suggests it.

My point. The Trjicon Accupoint is a perfectly capable BAC optic with variable magnification. It will serve the shooter well under most if not all environments. Also consider the forgiving eye relief, a big selling point IMHO, almost as lucrative as variable magnification in a BAC optic. I find the TR21R to be a great 0-300 yard optic.


The only downsides to a TR21R are, as far as I can tell....

1) no BDC so those 600 yard shots with the 223 will be difficult
and
2) you can't beat an iraqi insurgent over the head with it. You probably could, but it'd most likely void the warranty.



Here's the features and specs copied from Devl's website (aka Trijicon.com)


Features:
Multi-layer coated lenses
Scope body crafted of aircraft quality, hard anodized aluminum
Matte black finish
Water-resistant and nitrogen filled
Manual brightness adjustment override
Long eye relief
Quick-focus eyepiece
Fiber-optic collector with with non-distracting cover
1/4 MOA elevation and windage adjustments
Plus:
An externally adjustable,pop-up, resetable pointer dial which
allows a scope that's been sighted-in to be easily reset to zero
without using tools
Specifications:

Magnification: 1.25x-4x
Eye Relief: 4.8 to 3.4 inches
Exit Pupi: 16.9 to 6.0 mm
Field of View: 11.6 to 3.9 degrees
Field of view @100 yds.: 61.6 feet to 20.5 feet
Adjustment Increments: 4 clicks per inch @ 100 yds
Reticle/Triangle Dimension: 11MOA to 4 MOA
Length: 10.2 inches
Weight: 11.4 oz.
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 10:56:17 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/15/2005 10:57:43 AM EDT by Nosmik]
Fenian,
I studied that table a little bit and I may be giving it a try if I sell my ACOG. I'm between the Accupoint or the IOR M2 but so far the Accupoint has some good arguments compared to the IOR.
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 11:03:45 AM EDT
I have 2 Accupoints, 1x4 and 3x9 and I love them both.
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 11:28:12 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Hokie:

Originally Posted By DevL:


This scope was originally designed to be used as a dangerous game scope. It is a hunting scope and not an optic for war. It will not be redesigned and there are no plans to redesign it. nSales are fine with it configured as it is right now.




It was designed as a dangerous game scope. Correct. However, dangerous game comes in many forms. If it can handle a cape buffalo hunt it can handle being utilized as a tactical optic. Is it as rugged as an ACOG? Nope. Will it suffice? Yep, provided your not using your gun as a club.....cause anything can break with enough force, even an ACOG.

I also believe Grant just posted about the Accupoint point being used in the sandbox. I guess we'd better get in touch with those guys overseas and tell em they can't use the Accupoint in war.

No plans to redesign it? Didn't they just come out with a 2.5X10X50mm model using a 30mm tube? I'll answer that for you. Yes.

If you're simply arguing that the Accupoint isn't "as rugged as" the ACOG then sure, you can argue that. Just wondering, are you the senior R&D consultant at Trijicon, Inc.? You're post suggests it.

My point. The Trjicon Accupoint is a perfectly capable BAC optic with variable magnification. It will serve the shooter well under most if not all environments. Also consider the forgiving eye relief, a big selling point IMHO, almost as lucrative as variable magnification in a BAC optic. I find the TR21R to be a great 0-300 yard optic.


The only downsides to a TR21R are, as far as I can tell....

1) no BDC so those 600 yard shots with the 223 will be difficult
and
2) you can't beat an iraqi insurgent over the head with it. You probably could, but it'd most likely void the warranty.



Here's the features and specs copied from Devl's website (aka Trijicon.com)


Features:
Multi-layer coated lenses
Scope body crafted of aircraft quality, hard anodized aluminum
Matte black finish
Water-resistant and nitrogen filled
Manual brightness adjustment override
Long eye relief
Quick-focus eyepiece
Fiber-optic collector with with non-distracting cover
1/4 MOA elevation and windage adjustments
Plus:
An externally adjustable,pop-up, resetable pointer dial which
allows a scope that's been sighted-in to be easily reset to zero
without using tools
Specifications:

Magnification: 1.25x-4x
Eye Relief: 4.8 to 3.4 inches
Exit Pupi: 16.9 to 6.0 mm
Field of View: 11.6 to 3.9 degrees
Field of view @100 yds.: 61.6 feet to 20.5 feet
Adjustment Increments: 4 clicks per inch @ 100 yds
Reticle/Triangle Dimension: 11MOA to 4 MOA
Length: 10.2 inches
Weight: 11.4 oz.



No I had about an hour conversation with the head company rep at the NRA show about this optic and the TA31RCO. Learned a lot about the scope and the differences between the civilian/LEO sales and Federal LEO/Military sales priorities. Federal LEO and Military always come first and get better lead times and prices than regular LEO and dealers, there will be no 30mm tube nor true 1X Accupoint. No plans to ever give Trijicon products bettery operated backup, etc. Things change however but I already asked all of these questions and more, just passing along what I learned.
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 11:38:50 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DevL:
No I had about an hour conversation with the head company rep at the NRA show about this optic and the TA31RCO. Learned a lot about the scope and the differences between the civilian/LEO sales and Federal LEO/Military sales priorities. Federal LEO and Military always come first and get better lead times and prices than regular LEO and dealers, there will be no 30mm tube nor true 1X Accupoint. No plans to ever give Trijicon products bettery operated backup, etc. Things change however but I already asked all of these questions and more, just passing along what I learned.



Gotcha, that must have been cool....but I guess I'm confused then, on Trijicon's website they have that 30mm Accupoint model listed...
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 12:18:02 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DevL:

Originally Posted By Nosmik:

Originally Posted By magnum_99:
A ruggedized Accupoint with an ACOG Chevron BDC reticle.




+1



This is impossible just to let you know. The reticle of the Accupoint is just fiber optic cord you see at thte top of the sight split to make a point for a reticle. You cant make a free floating chevron, and no way to make BDC ticks with a hunk of fiber optic cable. By its very deffinition the optic can not be "ruggedised" either with that type of reticle. If you improve body strength and tube diameter it becomes a heavy optic like any of the others out there.

This scope was originally designed to be used as a dangerous game scope. It is a huntig scope and not an optic for war. It will not be redesigned and there are no plans to redesign it. Sales are fine with it configured as it is right now.




Whatever, then give us a fucking 1-4 ACOG.

Fix the little problems and LIGHT THE CANDLE!
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 1:21:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/15/2005 1:22:21 PM EDT by new-arguy]
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 1:23:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By new-arguy:

Originally Posted By DevL:
...there will be no 30mm tube nor true 1X Accupoint...



This 30mm tube Accupoint was announced at least in January 2005's shot show, maybe before?

www.trijicon.com/user/parts/products1.cfm?PartID=475



That and it's on Trijicon's website, and SWFA's website...and....
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 1:27:17 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 2:40:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/15/2005 2:41:59 PM EDT by DevL]
30mm 1.25-4X? I never discussed the larger Accupoints with him, only the 1.25-4X version.
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