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10/20/2017 1:01:18 AM
9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 9/29/2005 10:11:13 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/29/2005 12:14:18 PM EDT by rmdugan84]
Would a match trigger be a no-no on a SHTF carbine? Which size barrel do you recommend on a SHTF carbine? I'm having trouble deciding between a true m4 profile with the 14.5 barrel with pinned FH or a 16" barrel with mid-length gas system. I'm thinking the 16" middy will be short enough for QCB but be a bit more reliable and accurate than the 14.5+ perm FH.
Link Posted: 9/29/2005 10:17:15 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/29/2005 10:21:33 AM EDT by MauserMark]
Originally Posted By rmdugan84:
Would a match trigger be a no-no on a SHTF carbine?

well if a match trigger makes you shoot more accurately, and in most instances where your life is in danger I would think you'd want to have an extra edge in bringing down a threat.

Which size barrel do you recommend on a SHTF carbine?

wouldn't think it would matter all that much. I have my 20" Colt M16A1 upper on a built lower for any SHTF I can think of, but most would probably prefer a shorter barrel. But I don't think you'd be in a disadvantage if you happened to end carrying a standard 20" length AR.

I'm having trouble deciding between a true m4 profile with the 14.5 barrel with pinned FH or a 16" barrel with mid-lengh gas system. I'm thinking the 16" middy will be short enough for QCB but be a bit more reliable and accurate than the 14.5+ perm FH.

doubt you would notice a difference in reliability or accuracy, but if fragmentation concerns you, 1.5" may be better at some longer differences, although the likely hood of that being in issue is minor.
============================================================

The only SHTF experience I've come close to was last week in Houston when we thought we were gonna be slammed with Rita. My only concern about having my 20" AR was that water in the gas tube can sometimes cause a k'Boom. So I wasn't sure if I needed to grab my AK74 or AR. I chose the AR because I had a ton of XM193, and turned down the Ak74 because all I had was wolf.
Link Posted: 9/29/2005 10:20:39 AM EDT
Just my personal preference: I think the 14.5" looks cooler, but the 16 offers slightly better cost and more convinience.... If you were making a SHTF carbine, i'd say go with the 16"

The 14.5" is for if you wanna build a cool looking or CQB rifle. :)
Link Posted: 9/29/2005 10:24:27 AM EDT
Typically Match Triggers in a SHTF weapon are a no-no. Too many things can go wrong with them, and you don't want (or need) a 2# trigger pull in a serious defense weapon. Too much chance of an AD.

Tack
Link Posted: 9/29/2005 10:32:03 AM EDT
What kind of barrel profile should I look for in a 16"?
Link Posted: 9/29/2005 11:09:22 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/29/2005 11:15:03 AM EDT

Originally Posted By C4iGrant:

Originally Posted By rmdugan84:
What kind of barrel profile should I look for in a 16"?



I like the Govt profile.



C4



Agreed. 16" govt profile is nice as long as you don't want to attach a bayonet. The govt profile is lighter than HBAR but not as light as pencil and groups won't open up as fast as they do with a superlight barrel. It's light enough and small enough to carry around with ease and still be very effective. MJD
Link Posted: 9/29/2005 11:15:29 AM EDT

Originally Posted By rmdugan84:
Would a match trigger be a no-no on a SHTF carbine? Which size barrel do you recommend on a SHTF carbine? I'm having trouble deciding between a true m4 profile with the 14.5 barrel with pinned FH or a 16" barrel with mid-lengh gas system. I'm thinking the 16" middy will be short enough for QCB but be a bit more reliable and accurate than the 14.5+ perm FH.



Your instincts are pointing you in the right direction.

I fired my 16" mid-length for the first time this week and it has become my favorite AR platform.

I'd stay away from the match/2-stage trigger. The factory trigger will take good care of you.

Scott

Link Posted: 9/29/2005 12:23:23 PM EDT
I think a 14.5" barrel is too long for a CQB rifle.

I only like the KAC 2 stage trigger for aftermarket 2 stage triggers. I also like the Accuracy Speaks single stage.

Most match triggers are not reliable enough to depend on for a SHTF rifle.

Noones opinion should matter but your own.
Link Posted: 9/29/2005 12:43:00 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DevL:
I think a 14.5" barrel is too long for a CQB rifle.

I only like the KAC 2 stage trigger for aftermarket 2 stage triggers. I also like the Accuracy Speaks single stage.

Most match triggers are not reliable enough to depend on for a SHTF rifle.

Noones opinion should matter but your own.



Good points...

SHTF rifle?? 16 gov't profile in mid length... slower cycling, lower gas impluse and recoil. better then any 14.5 or 16.1 std length barrel. of course mid length are harder to find in chrome line with 1:7 twist and feed ramps. At least chrome line is a must.

trigger, factory.... I always say, when your are in the face of danger, that ten pounds factory trigger will feel like a one pounder.
Link Posted: 9/29/2005 4:30:33 PM EDT
Bayonet? If the BG is close enough to stab with a bayonet, you let him get way damn too close before shooting him.

NO on match trigger for SHTF.

16" Middy is excellent. As far as reliable, carbine length gas systems on 16"'s are fine but work the action pretty violently. The 16" middies are smoother. This would mean less stress on all the parts involved. I have both, so I have a basis for comparison.

Govt profile, M4 profile, or HB would all be fine, pick one.
Link Posted: 9/29/2005 4:40:37 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/29/2005 5:00:10 PM EDT
kisass...


keep it short and simple stupid...
Link Posted: 9/29/2005 5:07:48 PM EDT
Match trigger in a SHTF carbine is a no-no. Read the tacked thread about the ideal tactical carbine.
Link Posted: 9/29/2005 5:07:59 PM EDT
My SHTF carbine is a HBAR 14.5" A2 with a LMT 2 stage trigger, TA31, Surefire 6 volt, Vltor stock.

I also now have a SHTF rifle, gov profile 20" A3 with a LMT 2 stage trigger, TA31F, Surefire 6 volt Turbohead, LMT Crane stock, flip up troy sights.

Got no concerns about the trigger group, but which one would I pick up, in true AR15.com tradition BOTH!

But if I could only pick up one, it'll be the 20", greater frag range, that's what 556 is all about, isn't it.
Link Posted: 9/29/2005 5:24:21 PM EDT

Originally Posted By A_Free_Man:
Bayonet? If the BG is close enough to stab with a bayonet, you let him get way damn too close before shooting him.


I've always thought of a bayonet as something you attack with, not something you defend with. So I would say "If you have to attack the BG with a bayonet you didn't bring enough ammo."
Link Posted: 9/29/2005 5:43:44 PM EDT
Another subjective opinion -...

1. Forget the match trigger. Not necessary; added crap to go wrong. Stick with proven reliability.

2. Lots of different SHTF scenarios. Barrel profile not particularly important, unless you anticipate carrying the gun for miles.

3. For a "real" SHTF situation, how about keeping an 10.5 in.barrel laying around, never assembled until actually needed. (At which point, the BATF would be the last of your concerns).
For QCB, it would be far superior to any longer carbines/rifles. For longer range defence, I'd want another rifle around for that. ( Lots of choices here)



Link Posted: 9/29/2005 6:53:30 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DevL:
I think a 14.5" barrel is too long for a CQB rifle.

I only like the KAC 2 stage trigger for aftermarket 2 stage triggers. I also like the Accuracy Speaks single stage.

Most match triggers are not reliable enough to depend on for a SHTF rifle.

Noones opinion should matter but your own.



Do you actually perform any kind of real world CQB mission (ie. is this comment made from EXPERIENCE)? I do have a job where I perform a real world CQB mission on a regular basis, and I use a 16" barrel and have NEVER felt like it was too long.

Link Posted: 9/29/2005 7:13:16 PM EDT
The question is, how durable is a match trigger. I imagine it depends on brand, but I like my factory gravel filled trigger. No worry about failures or breakage.

16'' is fine, 21'' with moderator (silencer) will be better.
Link Posted: 9/29/2005 7:36:09 PM EDT
I dont have a match trigger in any of my AR's, but I suppose any part that's well machined should suit you fine in SHTF.

USMC03's title holds true-"slayer of posers and wannabes!!" I always like when you post USMC03, the real world experience and all is a nice break from all the BS that flies about here sometimes. Thanks
Link Posted: 9/29/2005 7:42:48 PM EDT
A RRA 2-stage comes standard on their rifles. They aren't 2 pounds though probably 4-5. I've shot thousands and thousands with my two RRA's with no problems. I'd just stay away from the super light match triggers especially if they are adjustable. I fail to see how a non-adjustable 2-stage is more pron to failure, I mean there isn't anything that can work loose like on an adjustable one.
Link Posted: 9/29/2005 7:52:37 PM EDT
My SHTF carbine is a 16" middy. Midlength is more reliable and robust than a carbine gas system. 16" tube gives valuable extra velocity. The extra ~ 1 inch of length has no significant effect on handling. As for trigger, I use a stock AR trigger; I can shoot it accurately enough, and the chance of an AD when palms are sweaty is much lower than with a match trigger. Gratuitous photo follows:

Link Posted: 9/29/2005 8:30:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By USMC03:

Originally Posted By DevL:
I think a 14.5" barrel is too long for a CQB rifle.

I only like the KAC 2 stage trigger for aftermarket 2 stage triggers. I also like the Accuracy Speaks single stage.

Most match triggers are not reliable enough to depend on for a SHTF rifle.

Noones opinion should matter but your own.



Do you actually perform any kind of real world CQB mission (ie. is this comment made from EXPERIENCE)? I do have a job where I perform a real world CQB mission on a regular basis, and I use a 16" barrel and have NEVER felt like it was too long.




The two places I would use it are my car and my home. 14.5" still requires I lower the weapon around every corner. I cant use the 14.5" from my car or get out fo the car with it very well.
Link Posted: 9/29/2005 8:33:10 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DevL:
The two places I would use it are my car and my home. 14.5" still requires I lower the weapon around every corner. I cant use the 14.5" from my car or get out fo the car with it very well.



Slice the pie (heh) when going through a doorway. No need to lower the carbine.
Link Posted: 9/29/2005 8:36:38 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/29/2005 8:36:57 PM EDT by DevL]

Originally Posted By Tomislav:

Originally Posted By DevL:
The two places I would use it are my car and my home. 14.5" still requires I lower the weapon around every corner. I cant use the 14.5" from my car or get out fo the car with it very well.



Slice the pie (heh) when going through a doorway. No need to lower the carbine.



You are not listening. The hallways are too small. I must lower the weapon or the barrel hits the door frame or hallway turn. I cant step any futher back or slice the pie any differently.
Link Posted: 9/29/2005 8:42:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DevL:

Originally Posted By Tomislav:

Originally Posted By DevL:
The two places I would use it are my car and my home. 14.5" still requires I lower the weapon around every corner. I cant use the 14.5" from my car or get out fo the car with it very well.



Slice the pie (heh) when going through a doorway. No need to lower the carbine.



You are not listening. The hallways are too small. I must lower the weapon or the barrel hits the door frame or hallway turn. I cant step any futher back or slice the pie any differently.



Sure you can.

1) Face doorway, carbine shouldered.

2) Step forward.

3) As carbine barrel passed doorway, you are free to turn left or right, moving forward.

Unless you have 14.5" hallways, it can be done.
Link Posted: 9/29/2005 9:26:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DevL:

Originally Posted By Tomislav:

Originally Posted By DevL:
The two places I would use it are my car and my home. 14.5" still requires I lower the weapon around every corner. I cant use the 14.5" from my car or get out fo the car with it very well.



Slice the pie (heh) when going through a doorway. No need to lower the carbine.



You are not listening. The hallways are too small. I must lower the weapon or the barrel hits the door frame or hallway turn. I cant step any futher back or slice the pie any differently.



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