AR Sponsor
Posted: 10/7/2014 8:06:43 PM EDT
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a little back ground on me, so you'll know why I had the trigger done. I'm a disabled hunter and I use an adaptive stand to hunt. I've got a DPMS GII with the stock Trigger my that if equipment struggled to pull the trigger. so after saving for a few months I purchased a trigger thru triggerworks.net who I found here on AR15.com. . the trigger was dry firing by releasing the bolt. So I called Bill and he's having me ship the trigger back to see what's wrong with it. I give everyone benefit of the doubt until proven. But having that trouble with the trigger, I researched him and have found some negative stuff about his trigger work along with great stuff.
My question is did I screw up by purchasing one of his triggers or am I worrying to much and he'll make it right? also, great site y'all have here. II've learned a lot about my first AR and plaining to build a AR15 down the road to go with my GII. |
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If it's the triggers I'm thinking of, they are modified GI parts. Those parts are only surface hardened and the way he modifies them is by removing material to smooth out the engagement surfaces. When you do this, you run the risk of removing the hardened material and leaving raw soft metal, which eventually will lead to doubles, triples, and hammer follow (possibly going fully automatic in the process.) In your case, it appears he screwed up the engagement surfaces from the get go.
If I were you I'd ditch the "modified" trigger and go with an ALG unit if you're looking to save some cash. They come out of the package smooth and the lower priced ones start somewhere around $45. ALG QMS Trigger ETA: If pull weight is your main concern, you could always just add some JP springs to a stock LPK FCG and call it a day. |
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As an occupational therapist, without knowing your precise disability, I can only provide general guidance on what sort of trigger you'd need. On the other hand, I have seen and used Bill's work, and after some really intense education, I replaced the trigger he worked for me. While I'm sure he means well and tries to do a professional job, the parts he's dealing with today aren't always of the quality he started working with in the past.
An ALG ACT trigger has at least a 5.5 pound pull, and costs $65. It's really, really smooth and feels a lot lighter than 5.5 pounds, but it's safe and reliable. If that's too heavy, you can go with a more expensive Geisele trigger, such as the SSA or SSA-E, both of which are lighter, but totally reliable. Some people have reported changing the springs that come with an ALG trigger to lighten the ACT below the stock 5.5 pounds, but I'd contact ALG before doing that. |
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Thanks Guys, that's what I was worried about, was a unsafe trigger after I read more into it. A unsafe firearm is a no go for me.
I'm going to contact Bill tomorrow to see if I can get a refund instead of him trying to solve the trigger issue. I'll look into the ALG triggers, hopefully 5.5lbs will dropped it just enough for my Adaptive setup will pull easily. I've read about the JP spring kits, will they drop the poundage of a stock trigger? I thought about the JP Fire control system, but the grinding needed for fitment was a little more then I trust my friends to help me with and still be safe. I'd love to put one of the drop in triggers, but there way out of my price range. I've got a Jewell trigger in one of my bolt guns and it's amazing. But $$$. GHPorter, more about my injury. I'm a quadriplegic. I use the Beadaptive HQ100 with there sip trigger. It does pull the trigger, but since it's so heavy I've got to adjust it a few times before it'll pull the trigger. It'll be pointless to test fire my AR to make sure it's lined up where needed during a hunt. I've got a hunt coming up this deer season with Blue Collar Adventures on th Sportsmans channel. I'd feel mighty stupid to have a unsafe trigger malfunction or worse on camera. I moved to the AR 308 for ease of shooting. I use a sighting system on my scope and I've got to pull it off after each shot with my bolt guns, where with the AR, it simplifies a repet shot. |
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Quoted:
Thanks Guys, that's what I was worried about, was a unsafe trigger after I read more into it. A unsafe firearm is a no go for me. I'm going to contact Bill tomorrow to see if I can get a refund instead of him trying to solve the trigger issue. I'll look into the ALG triggers, hopefully 5.5lbs will dropped it just enough for my Adaptive setup will pull easily. I've read about the JP spring kits, will they drop the poundage of a stock trigger? I thought about the JP Fire control system, but the grinding needed for fitment was a little more then I trust my friends to help me with and still be safe. I'd love to put one of the drop in triggers, but there way out of my price range. I've got a Jewell trigger in one of my bolt guns and it's amazing. But $$$. GHPorter, more about my injury. I'm a quadriplegic. I use the Beadaptive HQ100 with there sip trigger. It does pull the trigger, but since it's so heavy I've got to adjust it a few times before it'll pull the trigger. It'll be pointless to test fire my AR to make sure it's lined up where needed during a hunt. I've got a hunt coming up this deer season with Blue Collar Adventures on th Sportsmans channel. I'd feel mighty stupid to have a unsafe trigger malfunction or worse on camera. I moved to the AR 308 for ease of shooting. I use a sighting system on my scope and I've got to pull it off after each shot with my bolt guns, where with the AR, it simplifies a repet shot. Yes, the JP springs will lower the pull weight even on a stock trigger. I've never used them myself, but with a little searching around you can find a lot more info on that topic. I believe they are the JP yellow springs. I do, however, have one of the ACT triggers and I can say that it is a lot better than a standard gritty GI trigger. More smooth and the pull feels probably about 1 to 1.5 lbs. lighter on average than a standard LPK FCG. Whether it actually is lighter or that's just a factor of it being smoother, I'm not sure. Best of luck with the hunt man! |
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Quoted:
GHPorter, more about my injury. I'm a quadriplegic. I use the Beadaptive HQ100 with there sip trigger. It does pull the trigger, but since it's so heavy I've got to adjust it a few times before it'll pull the trigger. It'll be pointless to test fire my AR to make sure it's lined up where needed during a hunt. I've got a hunt coming up this deer season with Blue Collar Adventures on th Sportsmans channel. I'd feel mighty stupid to have a unsafe trigger malfunction or worse on camera. I moved to the AR 308 for ease of shooting. I use a sighting system on my scope and I've got to pull it off after each shot with my bolt guns, where with the AR, it simplifies a repet shot. It sounds like an ACT with at least 5.5 pounds of pull might be too heavy for your device. You may be better off with a lighter trigger, like the SSA or the G2S, which both have a 4.5 pound pull, or the SSA-E with a 3.5 pound pull. If I were you, I'd contact Geissele and ask what they recommend. They no doubt have a bunch of variations they can help walk you through, depending on the abilities of your device. Too bad Be Adaptive doesn't include the capacity of the HQ100's trigger actuator on their web site, or I'd have a better idea about how much tweaking you might need to do... Edited spelling. |
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Man, that is something else. I've seen some shows with quadriplegics hunting...and the guy was using an AR rifle (not sure if it was in 308 or 556). Maybe it was you.
I wonder if you were to approach Geisele (or other match trigger company) and tell them what you were doing if they would help you out with the price. I had an uncle who was basically blind and had some physical impairments as well...and we would go SCUBA diving. He had been doing it for 20+ years before I was even old enough to get certified. He had over 300 dives and in some of the most amazing placed in the world. He was an inspiration to me and I wish I could have spent more time with him as an adult but alcohol consumed him a few years ago. You'll be an inspiration for others to try to achieve what others will tell them they can't or shouldn't. And you'll be an inspiration for those of us who have mobility to reach out to that community and provide those opportunities. I wish you the best. |
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The ACT isn't lighter than many stock trigger groups, there are multiple options from Geiselle you should look, they are completely reliable with fast lockup times. I'm sure one would fit your needs. The ACT IS, however a very stable and safe trigger, where many lighter triggers are less stable. I recommended the ACT because of this - the solid, stable lock up and resistance to being disturbed by odd stuff. I agree that Geisele is the place to start asking... |
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Depending on what you are looking for or what your price point is, I recommend the Geissele SSA or SD-C. They're around $200 but are amazing triggers. The SSA is a standard shape, the SD-C is the same thing but a flat blade. The SSA/SD-C is a 4.5lb (2.5/2) while the SSA-E/SD-E is a 3.5 (2.3/1.2). Both are shit hot triggers.
If 2 bills isn't what you are looking to spend, try the ALG triggers as others have mentioned. They are made by Bill Geissele's wife Amy |
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I prefer the QMS because its cheaper and there is no discernible difference between the ACT.
I am of the mind that the QMS is just about as good as a standard mil-spec trigger can get and that's just what you are lookin' for. Inexpensive, high quality, ultra safe and to spec. If I'm not mistaken the ACT just adds a Nickle Boron(or teflon depending on the batch) coating to the QMS. Much like in BCGs....this is gimmicky and not necessary, but whatever. |
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I prefer the QMS because its cheaper and there is no discernible difference between the ACT. I am of the mind that the QMS is just about as good as a standard mil-spec trigger can get and that's just what you are lookin' for. Inexpensive, high quality, ultra safe and to spec. If I'm not mistaken the ACT just adds a Nickle Boron(or teflon depending on the batch) coating to the QMS. Much like in BCGs....this is gimmicky and not necessary, but whatever. And higher grade pins. worth the price difference to me. The ACT is the minimum for me, but I think the Op would need something a little lighter. I would recommend the G2S. |
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And higher grade pins. worth the price difference to me. The ACT is the minimum for me, but I think the Op would need something a little lighter. I would recommend the G2S. Quoted:
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I prefer the QMS because its cheaper and there is no discernible difference between the ACT. I am of the mind that the QMS is just about as good as a standard mil-spec trigger can get and that's just what you are lookin' for. Inexpensive, high quality, ultra safe and to spec. If I'm not mistaken the ACT just adds a Nickle Boron(or teflon depending on the batch) coating to the QMS. Much like in BCGs....this is gimmicky and not necessary, but whatever. And higher grade pins. worth the price difference to me. The ACT is the minimum for me, but I think the Op would need something a little lighter. I would recommend the G2S. I didn't realize the ACT had higher grade pins. That is a consideration, especially if you are going to shoot 9mm. Is the material actually higher grade or are the just coated? |
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Quoted: a little back ground on me, so you'll know why I had the trigger done. I'm a disabled hunter and I use an adaptive stand to hunt. I've got a DPMS GII with the stock Trigger my that if equipment struggled to pull the trigger. so after saving for a few months I purchased a trigger thru triggerworks.net who I found here on AR15.com. . the trigger was dry firing by releasing the bolt. So I called Bill and he's having me ship the trigger back to see what's wrong with it. I give everyone benefit of the doubt until proven. But having that trouble with the trigger, I researched him and have found some negative stuff about his trigger work along with great stuff. My question is did I screw up by purchasing one of his triggers or am I worrying to much and he'll make it right? also, great site y'all have here. II've learned a lot about my first AR and plaining to build a AR15 down the road to go with my GII. If you're hunting with this rifle, get a Geissele SSA-E or Hi-speed NM; if you have the coin. If not, look at the Rock River Arms Two-stage Varmint. It's just over 3.5LBS, and I have enjoyed using mine. It's not as nice as my Giessele triggers, but it's about half the price. |
| The JP trigger spring kit can be hit and miss in lowering the trigger pull. I put in half a dozen and on some it made a noticeable difference on other not so much. I ended up putting Geissele SSA-E triggers. I think the Geissele SSA or the SSA-E would suit you purpose. Look up the specs and see which suits you set up best. Trading Pawn Palace sells the SSA-e for $194 and the SSA about $20 less with free fast UPS shipping. |
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I would look into the g2s. The alg triggers are just very crisp mil spec triggers. I have both the alg act and ssa. Get the g2s or ssa I would also recommend this. I have a SSA and a couple of G2S triggers and I am using the JP red spring (enhanced reliability springs) and that combo drops the weight to around 3-3.5lbs. I have had no issues with light strikes and I fire a lot of Monarch with somewhat hard primers. Hell the stock springs that come with the G2S put it around 4.5lbs but it's a clean two stage pull. Trading places pawn has them for $145 shipped if I remember correctly (vendor here). If I was in your situation I would contact Gesislle directly and ask him to tune a G2S with his springs to get a slightly lighter pull. |
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