Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login
Posted: 7/29/2005 4:18:49 PM EDT
I pretty much have an idea of what is covered in these class's but I would actualy like to hear it from someone whose been to one or two. I'm trying to decide if they are really for me or not. I have no military/LE background but am tactically inclined. Raised around guns just about my entire life. I know what ammo to feed it how to take care of my weapons and shoot them. I use to shoot match with an ar15 using iron sights in the DCM. My buddies who are retired military taught me tactical shooting on some private land. I dont consider myself a real pro but would a course be the right thing for me?
Link Posted: 7/29/2005 4:23:26 PM EDT
Link Posted: 7/29/2005 5:31:29 PM EDT
Link Posted: 7/29/2005 6:42:44 PM EDT
You should absolutely take a course with your carbine. I didn't know what I didn't know until I took my first carbine class. After that I was hooked. You will have fun!

We would love to have you train with us, and we occasionally teach classes in NC.
www.tacticalresponse.com

If you don't train with us, get some training somewhere. There are many good schools out there.
Check out the Training Forum on this site for some more info on training.
Link Posted: 7/29/2005 7:34:03 PM EDT
I took a class with Tactical Response and really understood what I did not know. A good class will go a long ways in helping you understand your rifle and it's uses. I took the class with a several combat veteran Marines and a SWAT cop and they all said this was some of the best training they had ever seen and that they had learned stuff they did not know. Bottomline, take a class. By the way, Tactical Response has a money back Guarantte. Can't beat that.
Link Posted: 7/29/2005 7:36:40 PM EDT
Oh, forgot to say the copper was from SC, and drove all the way to Camden TN for the training .
Link Posted: 7/29/2005 11:43:39 PM EDT
While you might know how to shoot; do you know how to fight with your carbine?

I've trained carbine work with Tactical Response, Paul Howe, Blackwater, etc and have classes coming up with Pat Rogers, Scott Reitz etc........ get in a class and see how much you truely don't know. You'll probably be surprised.
Link Posted: 7/30/2005 7:56:28 AM EDT
Well...
Seeing as I just returned from one of Pat's carbine classes this past week, let me weigh in on your question.

I will tell you this. if your looking to shoot better in competition, then DON't take a class. if you want to learn to FIGHT using a carbine, then take one.

Forget everything you learned or were TAUGHT by some Military guys on the back 40. if you want to LEARN to FIGHT with a carbine take a class from Pat Or Yeager of Gabe or some of the other Highly respected Instructors out there.

Their going to teach you how to FIGHT and win with a carbine thru the use of drills, Shooting positions and stances and manipulation of your weapon and magazines and thru Mindset.

This was my second class with Pat and Third Class overall and the one thing I have learning is that EVERYBODY can shoot. you give anybody a loaded carbine and stand them infront of a tgt at 25yds and they can hit the target. some better then others.

But what MOST shooters can't do is Manipulate their carbine under any type of stress or time. I've watched guys fumble their reloads, Immediate action drills or be able to understand simple verbal intructions in a timely matter. cause most shooters have little or no focus.

If you can listen, and then apply what you learned, you can learn to fight effectively with a Carbine. Don't try to buy your skill thru the purchase of aftermarket crap and gimmicks. A good solid foundation is to work on the basic marksmenship princibles and practice,practice,practice, then tale a class and then practice what you learned in the class.
Do you need to go with Pat Roger's? In my Book he is one of the best, and I want the best so I recommend him, but their are others, like Greg Sullivan who's great and Jame Yeager and all his guys from Tactical Response, and Gabe Suarez and on and on, Guys will jump on this post and name others that they have shot with and the point is research who you want to train with and figure out what you want to get out of it and then go do it with an open mind and a willigness to learn what you just paid this guy to teach you.

Don't show up with the attitude " well my other instructor told me this is the best way" or "I'm a Highpower NRA Master and this is a better way" BS cause your gonna get laughed at (and if your shooting next to me I will tease and torment you to the point you will cry and you will go home, and then I will shoot your relay and mine...)


You sound like you would benefit from a course and it will be an eyeopener for you. if you can go with a willingness to learn what YOUR intructor who YOU paid to teach you is teaching, you will walk away with a new understanding of how to fight and run a carbine. Just Don't go to Pat Rogers..(It just makes it harder for me to get a seat in next years class..)
Link Posted: 7/30/2005 10:10:15 AM EDT
Here's a link to some photos from our last class in NC.
imageevent.com/cutt/tacticalresponsetacrifleclass

Harv24's post is dead on!
Link Posted: 7/30/2005 12:58:42 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/30/2005 1:00:19 PM EDT by 444]
Let me tell you something a little bit different.
Shooting classes are fun.
I enjoy shooting. I read about shooting, talk about shooting, spend a lot of my money on shooting. I shoot whenever I get the chance. So it should be no surprise that my idea of a vacation is to go somewhere and do nothing for a week but shoot.
I am not the type of person who thinks it is fun to lay on a beach with my eyes closed getting a tan. To me, it doesn't get any more boring than that.

I would say, based on my experience, that you would learn a lot from taking a class. I think you would be surprised at what you would learn and how much practice it takes to get good with the techniques you would learn.
Link Posted: 7/30/2005 2:20:27 PM EDT
Link Posted: 7/30/2005 2:29:26 PM EDT
Link Posted: 7/30/2005 3:19:34 PM EDT
Link Posted: 7/30/2005 3:34:56 PM EDT

An instructor who would laugh at me because I ask him why another instructor taught a technique another way isn't someone I'd be interested in spending money and time on.





+1

The only person who is able to tell you if a course is right for you IS YOU. Personally if I learn just one thing at each course then it is well worth it to me. Take what each instructor has to offer and keep a open mind. Start off with a cheap "as in cost" and get a good platform before you start spending the big bucks.
Link Posted: 7/30/2005 4:38:46 PM EDT
Excellent......I've been looking for pics from the March Carbine class that was held in Carthage, NC. I'm the guy with the tan hat and black plate carrier with the "Police" patch.
Link Posted: 7/30/2005 7:27:18 PM EDT
Aimless
My bad. that came out wrong. I ment to say I will laugh at you, not the instructor. The point is don't go to one class and disregard everything your intructor is trying to teach you because you think another intructor has a better technique from a different class, hence the whole Open mind thing. Do it the way the guy you paid is showing you. if he's good, he'll tell you, This is A way, not The way" then pick and choose what works for you and what does not work for you. that's why intruction from several source's is the best.
Link Posted: 7/30/2005 7:39:29 PM EDT
Link Posted: 7/30/2005 7:44:10 PM EDT
When you take a class, try to pick an instructor that you think is going to give you valuable information. Then do what they say even if you don't agree with it. Give it a chance. You might be surprised.
I got into a discussion on another board with a guy that took a basic handgun class and he was frustrated that they made him shoot from the Weaver stance when he didn't want to. I asked him why he went there in the first place if he was going to argue with them about the techniques they teach and what the point of him taking the class was when he already thought he had all the answers ? IMO, he should have researched the school and found that he didn't agree with their philosophy prior to making the trip and spending the money for the class. And if he didn't do that, why not just humor them and give it a chance. Experience how the other half lives for a weekend.
Instead, he fought them throughout the class and came away with a bad attitude. And couldn't understand why anyone would disagree with him about it.
Link Posted: 7/30/2005 7:53:51 PM EDT
Link Posted: 7/30/2005 8:03:30 PM EDT
The biggest, best lesson you learn when you take a class, is how much you didn't know.
Link Posted: 7/30/2005 8:15:31 PM EDT
Aimless
Don't get me wrong here. I am not advocating any particular shooting style. What I am saying is that if you want to take violin lessons, don't go to a piano teacher and then bitch about them trying to teach you piano. Ask a few questions before you schedule/pay for the class. If they are going to be teaching something you are opposed to, then train elsewhere instead of complaining about it on the internet. Obviously the stance you shoot from is going to be a HUGE part of a basic handgun class. If you think you already know how to shoot and are totally unwilling to try something new, then don't take the class and make everyone else miserable: including the instructors.
Obviously Gunsite teaches Weaver. Several of the other big name schools are run by people who got their strart at Gunsite. They teach Weaver too. If you don't want to shoot Weaver, don't go there.
Link Posted: 7/30/2005 8:56:19 PM EDT
Not only will tactical classes help you learn how to use and fight with your weapon, but it will help weed out crappy parts, accessories and gear as well.



Link Posted: 7/30/2005 9:17:07 PM EDT
Link Posted: 7/31/2005 8:32:07 AM EDT
Rule #1 when taking a class is to go in with a clean slate. Take your time to learn what is being taught, in the manner it is being taught. In three days, you will not retrain your body. However, you will have an opportunity to learn new things and apply them. When you go home to practice alone at the range, you may find that you've learned some better ways to fight.

Most top notch instructors have no interest in turning students into yes men, or drones. What they want is for responsible shooters with an interest in becoming proficient with their tools, to learn how to fight and win. They want you to be the best fighter you can be, nothing more.

Be well!

damian@adcofirearms.com
Link Posted: 7/31/2005 6:51:28 PM EDT


Rule #1 when taking a class is to go in with a clean slate. Take your time to learn what is being taught, in the manner it is being taught. In three days, you will not retrain your body. However, you will have an opportunity to learn new things and apply them. When you go home to practice alone at the range, you may find that you've learned some better ways to fight.

Most top notch instructors have no interest in turning students into yes men, or drones. What they want is for responsible shooters with an interest in becoming proficient with their tools, to learn how to fight and win. They want you to be the best fighter you can be, nothing more.

Be well!

damian@adcofirearms.com




I'm interested in taking some carbine and pistol tactical shooting classes. Would anyone recommend anything here in NE Ohio?
Link Posted: 7/31/2005 7:04:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By dubb-1:
Rule #1 when taking a class is to go in with a clean slate. Take your time to learn what is being taught, in the manner it is being taught. In three days, you will not retrain your body. However, you will have an opportunity to learn new things and apply them. When you go home to practice alone at the range, you may find that you've learned some better ways to fight.

Most top notch instructors have no interest in turning students into yes men, or drones. What they want is for responsible shooters with an interest in becoming proficient with their tools, to learn how to fight and win. They want you to be the best fighter you can be, nothing more.

Be well!

damian@adcofirearms.com



+1

Simply an outstanding post.

This is so good I might have to forgive your hatred of Wilson Combat.
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 7:36:13 AM EDT
Feed, nothing in NE Ohio that I am aware of. Most of the best courses require some travel.

Thank you! VA, you know you'll always be my favorite Wilson lover!


damian@adcofirearms.com
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 8:31:12 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/1/2005 8:32:22 AM EDT by ColtRifle]
My only reservation to certain instructors is that some of them try to make you use just one stance or one grip or whatever. Some instructors don't seem to realize that people are different and what works for one person might not work for another one. There are a lot of crappy instructors out there. I've seen instructors making someone do something their way and the person can't hit anything and is obviously struggling to do things the way the instructor is trying to teach. As an instructor, it's important to find what works for your students and then refine it for them.

On the other hand, there are a lot of really good instructors out there. I'm planning to take a course from Tactical Response soon. Hopefully this year but don't know about my schedule. Definately go to each course with an open mind. If you don't agree with something the instructor is saying.....listen to everything anyway. Take the stuff that you need and leave the rest. But don't write off an instructor just because he says something you don't like or don't agree with. There are a few bonehead instructors but most of the well known ones are well known for a reason.


Maybe we could get a tacked thread for various training courses offered by different schools??? It might be better over in the training forum though.
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 9:43:14 PM EDT
Anyone recommend any classes? Flying/long distances isn't an issue. I just don't want to spend the time and travel the distance for a second rate class...
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 10:36:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/1/2005 10:43:59 PM EDT by CJan_NH]

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
The biggest, best lesson you learn when you take a class, is how much you didn't know.


A resounding +1

Prior to my first formal training class I thought that I had a decent grasp of the fundamentals. If the "fundamentals" had been defined as relaxed, leisurely target shooting where nothing ever goes tits up at the worst possible time while the bad guys wait for you to get back in the game then I would have been right.

Now that I've had some professional instruction my "informal range plinking" has taken on a whole new dimension. Before I used to line up in front of a row of targets and blast away-all the while thinking I was pretty badass and invincible with my pimped out $3k carbine.

These days an "informal plinking session" consists of practicing shoot and scoot, malfunction clearing, tactical reloads, weakside transitions, and other drills I've learned along he way. While I'll never be professional SWAT material at least now I have a more realistic understanding of how to use my defensive weapons properly and effectively



Top Top