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"THE STATE OF THE 6.8" ... JULY, 2009 (Page 7 of 8)
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Originally Posted By AR-Performance:
They do a lot of damage when the hit a rib on the way in. That was actually the exit wound. It went right in between the ribs on the way in. entrance wound: 
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Tempus fugit. Frater, memento mori.
This saying is trustworthy and deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners. Of these I am the foremost. ~ 1 Tim. 1:15
This saying is trustworthy and deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners. Of these I am the foremost. ~ 1 Tim. 1:15
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Originally Posted By AR-Performance:
Originally Posted By loonybin:
Originally Posted By hi-tech-rancher:
I agree completely. I have 200 of the Noslers on order from Midway, right now. I can't wait to get them and load them over some Re 10X, to see if I can hit 3000 FPS out of my ARP barrels. Compared to the 110gr. Accubonds, how do they compare regarding retained energy at longer distances (200+yds)? I'm using a 18" CA barrel (correct specs) right now, and am looking to handload. If the velocity difference can overcome the reduced weight in regards to retained energy, I may have to give some of them a try. But then, those 100gr. TTSX sure are tempting... IMO the extra velocity possible will leave the 100 with better performance at range. 3000fps should be possible with your 18" barrel, I have hit it with 16" I guess I'm not seeing the numbers you're talking about. I'm using the JBM calculator, and I'm getting considerably less energy at range than the 110gr. Accubonds. The 100s are showing 652ft-lbs at 300yds as opposed to 1021ft-lbs at 300yds for the 110. What am I doing wrong? EDIT: I think I see what happened. Nosler has their BC and SD switched on their website, and JBM is using the wrong number for BC. Putting the correct BC in there really changed the numbers –– 1082ft-lbs at 300yds, 60ft-lbs more than the 110s and 2" less drop! If they're as accurate out of my rifle as the 110s, then I may just have found my new hunting round for next year. |
Tempus fugit. Frater, memento mori.
This saying is trustworthy and deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners. Of these I am the foremost. ~ 1 Tim. 1:15
This saying is trustworthy and deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners. Of these I am the foremost. ~ 1 Tim. 1:15
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Originally Posted By loonybin:
Originally Posted By AR-Performance:
Originally Posted By loonybin:
Originally Posted By hi-tech-rancher:
I agree completely. I have 200 of the Noslers on order from Midway, right now. I can't wait to get them and load them over some Re 10X, to see if I can hit 3000 FPS out of my ARP barrels. Compared to the 110gr. Accubonds, how do they compare regarding retained energy at longer distances (200+yds)? I'm using a 18" CA barrel (correct specs) right now, and am looking to handload. If the velocity difference can overcome the reduced weight in regards to retained energy, I may have to give some of them a try. But then, those 100gr. TTSX sure are tempting... IMO the extra velocity possible will leave the 100 with better performance at range. 3000fps should be possible with your 18" barrel, I have hit it with 16" I guess I'm not seeing the numbers you're talking about. I'm using the JBM calculator, and I'm getting considerably less energy at range than the 110gr. Accubonds. The 100s are showing 652ft-lbs at 300yds as opposed to 1021ft-lbs at 300yds for the 110. What am I doing wrong? EDIT: I think I see what happened. Nosler has their BC and SD switched on their website, and JBM is using the wrong number for BC. Putting the correct BC in there really changed the numbers –– 1082ft-lbs at 300yds, 60ft-lbs more than the 110s and 2" less drop! If they're as accurate out of my rifle as the 110s, then I may just have found my new hunting round for next year. I have yet to kill a deer with my 6.8 loaded with 110 grain Accubonds and you're telling me there's a 100 grain bullet available that may perform better than the 110??? Excellent! Another reason to go hunting more often! 
Okay, what about load data for this 100 grain bullet? |
Better to have and not need than need and not have
Two out of three ain't bad, especially when one of 'em is a head shot.
كافر
Two out of three ain't bad, especially when one of 'em is a head shot.
كافر
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Originally Posted By SPTiger:
Originally Posted By loonybin:
Originally Posted By AR-Performance:
Originally Posted By loonybin:
Originally Posted By hi-tech-rancher:
I agree completely. I have 200 of the Noslers on order from Midway, right now. I can't wait to get them and load them over some Re 10X, to see if I can hit 3000 FPS out of my ARP barrels. Compared to the 110gr. Accubonds, how do they compare regarding retained energy at longer distances (200+yds)? I'm using a 18" CA barrel (correct specs) right now, and am looking to handload. If the velocity difference can overcome the reduced weight in regards to retained energy, I may have to give some of them a try. But then, those 100gr. TTSX sure are tempting... IMO the extra velocity possible will leave the 100 with better performance at range. 3000fps should be possible with your 18" barrel, I have hit it with 16" I guess I'm not seeing the numbers you're talking about. I'm using the JBM calculator, and I'm getting considerably less energy at range than the 110gr. Accubonds. The 100s are showing 652ft-lbs at 300yds as opposed to 1021ft-lbs at 300yds for the 110. What am I doing wrong? EDIT: I think I see what happened. Nosler has their BC and SD switched on their website, and JBM is using the wrong number for BC. Putting the correct BC in there really changed the numbers –– 1082ft-lbs at 300yds, 60ft-lbs more than the 110s and 2" less drop! If they're as accurate out of my rifle as the 110s, then I may just have found my new hunting round for next year. I have yet to kill a deer with my 6.8 loaded with 110 grain Accubonds and you're telling me there's a 100 grain bullet available that may perform better than the 110??? Excellent! Another reason to go hunting more often!
Okay, what about load data for this 100 grain bullet? Reloder 10X is looking like it will be the best powder. I would start around 27 grains and work up from there. Just as a comparator, I load the 110 Accubond over 29.5 grains of Re 10X. It is likely that you can get this same amount of powder under the 100 grainer. They are being sold with a cannelure, so you will probably be loading them to 2.24 or 2.26" Of course, start low and work up. |
"Texas - the only state that ever kicked another country's ass."
"I'll never forget September 11, 2001, those who have fought and died, or those who continue to fight to avenge the deaths of over 3000 innocent Americans"
"I'll never forget September 11, 2001, those who have fought and died, or those who continue to fight to avenge the deaths of over 3000 innocent Americans"
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Originally Posted By hi-tech-rancher:
Originally Posted By SPTiger:
Originally Posted By loonybin:
Originally Posted By AR-Performance:
Originally Posted By loonybin:
Originally Posted By hi-tech-rancher:
I agree completely. I have 200 of the Noslers on order from Midway, right now. I can't wait to get them and load them over some Re 10X, to see if I can hit 3000 FPS out of my ARP barrels. Compared to the 110gr. Accubonds, how do they compare regarding retained energy at longer distances (200+yds)? I'm using a 18" CA barrel (correct specs) right now, and am looking to handload. If the velocity difference can overcome the reduced weight in regards to retained energy, I may have to give some of them a try. But then, those 100gr. TTSX sure are tempting... IMO the extra velocity possible will leave the 100 with better performance at range. 3000fps should be possible with your 18" barrel, I have hit it with 16" I guess I'm not seeing the numbers you're talking about. I'm using the JBM calculator, and I'm getting considerably less energy at range than the 110gr. Accubonds. The 100s are showing 652ft-lbs at 300yds as opposed to 1021ft-lbs at 300yds for the 110. What am I doing wrong? EDIT: I think I see what happened. Nosler has their BC and SD switched on their website, and JBM is using the wrong number for BC. Putting the correct BC in there really changed the numbers –– 1082ft-lbs at 300yds, 60ft-lbs more than the 110s and 2" less drop! If they're as accurate out of my rifle as the 110s, then I may just have found my new hunting round for next year. I have yet to kill a deer with my 6.8 loaded with 110 grain Accubonds and you're telling me there's a 100 grain bullet available that may perform better than the 110??? Excellent! Another reason to go hunting more often!
Okay, what about load data for this 100 grain bullet? Reloder 10X is looking like it will be the best powder. I would start around 27 grains and work up from there. Just as a comparator, I load the 110 Accubond over 29.5 grains of Re 10X. It is likely that you can get this same amount of powder under the 100 grainer. They are being sold with a cannelure, so you will probably be loading them to 2.24 or 2.26" Of course, start low and work up. Hey C, I bumped into a guy that sells prints to build solar/battery powered infrared lights for feeders. www.huntsports.com |
www.AR15Performance.com
6.8, 5.56, 6.5mmAR, 7.62x39 uppers
6.8, 5.56, 6.5mmAR, 7.62x39 uppers
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Someone is still using a chart made in 04 to compare the 6.5 and 6.8 so I thought I would throw up a realistic chart
made using Bill Alexanders own load data of maximum handloads posted on the Grendel forum and compare them to SSA's factory loads. It's not quite fair but just to show everyone how close they really are. Then there are some hot 6.8 handloads compared to the 6.5 Max handloads. 6.5 Grendel using Bill's max loads in a 16" barrel- zeroed at 200yds drops at 300yds. due to energy being less than 1000ft lbs 300 yds is about max for taking deer or hogs. the same temp, pressure line of sight and program used to figure all drops in both calibers. the 6.5 107 and 123 are match bullets the rest are hunting bullets, bullets at a higher velocity can outperform a higher BC bullet out to mid range only after 500yds do they really start pulling away. 100 Nosler-2600fps––drop 9.4/801 ft lbs 107 SMK-2545fps––––-drop9.5/878ft lbs––-match bullet 123 SMK-2472fps––––drop 9.4/1083ft lbs––-match bullet 120TSX-2472fps––––drop9.8/984ft lbs 6.8 SPC SSA factory ammo 16" barrel 100 Nosler-2700fps––drop9.0/809ft lbs 110 Nosler-2630fps––drop9.0/939ft lbs 6.8 handloads max 100 Nosler 2950fps––-drop 7.4/993ftlbs 110 Nosler 2750fps––drop8.2/1040ftlbs Now if you want to punch paper at over 500 yards then the 6.5 will have better drop and drift but really, how far do you really shoot? |
www.AR15Performance.com
6.8, 5.56, 6.5mmAR, 7.62x39 uppers
6.8, 5.56, 6.5mmAR, 7.62x39 uppers
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Originally Posted By AR-Performance:
Someone is still using a chart made in 04 to compare the 6.5 and 6.8 so I thought I would throw up a realistic chart made using Bill Alexanders own load data of maximum handloads posted on the Grendel forum and compare them to SSA's factory loads. It's not quite fair but just to show everyone how close they really are. Then there are some hot 6.8 handloads compared to the 6.5 Max handloads. 6.5 Grendel using Bill's max loads in a 16" barrel- zeroed at 200yds drops at 300yds. due to energy being less than 1000ft lbs 300 yds is about max for taking deer or hogs. the same temp, pressure line of sight and program used to figure all drops in both calibers. the 6.5 107 and 123 are match bullets the rest are hunting bullets, bullets at a higher velocity can outperform a higher BC bullet out to mid range only after 500yds do they really start pulling away. 100 Nosler-2600fps––drop 9.4/801 ft lbs 107 SMK-2545fps––––-drop9.5/878ft lbs––-match bullet 123 SMK-2472fps––––drop 9.4/1083ft lbs––-match bullet 120TSX-2472fps––––drop9.8/984ft lbs 6.8 SPC SSA factory ammo 16" barrel 100 Nosler-2700fps––drop9.0/809ft lbs 110 Nosler-2630fps––drop9.0/939ft lbs 6.8 handloads max 100 Nosler 2950fps––-drop 7.4/993ftlbs 110 Nosler 2750fps––drop8.2/1040ftlbs Now if you want to punch paper at over 500 yards then the 6.5 will have better drop and drift but really, how far do you really shoot? thanks for the info. gonna have to get a 6.8. |
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What are the group thoughts on Stag's 7H upper assembly?
I'm looking to obtain a spare upper or two for hunting and range work; Stag's offering is exactly the configuration I want. If better alternatives are out there, who sells them? There are a ton of carbine and middy-style offerings available but I haven't yet been able to pin down a purpose-built, good quality upper designed specifically for the requirements of the hunter. School a feller, please. Down the road I'll probably pick up a 16" flattop w/ FSB but want a 20-24" heavy barrelled upper first. FWIW, I'm planning on handloading for whatever I purchase. |
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Originally Posted By OdDuMet:
100 Nosler 2950fps––-drop 7.4/993ftlbs
What load is this? Powder and amount? These are max loads and best not used in barrels with less than 11 twist or SAAMI chambers. 30.8gr of 10x OAL of 2.30 I actually hit 3033 with 34 gr of SSA's factory powder but Art wont tell me what it is and he wont sell it. 33gr of H335 hit apx 2900 also. H335 will give the best vel almost every time due to the fact it is a ball powder and I can get much more in the case. There are a few things we do that will give more velocity, they are used to get those. We don't crimp, we use CCI 41 primers and we always load as long as the mags will feed. |
www.AR15Performance.com
6.8, 5.56, 6.5mmAR, 7.62x39 uppers
6.8, 5.56, 6.5mmAR, 7.62x39 uppers
| As to the upper question above, I'm sure Stag has good uppers, but I would give AR Performance a call. If you go to their website you'll see that they have hunter models available. I'm very impressed by the upper they built for me, and I've not heard any negative comments about them. AR P is pushing the performance out the 6.8 to new levels, and he offers custom built quality, and mass merchandiser prices. Their attitude towards their customers is top notch as well. I suggest you give them a call. |
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Originally Posted By pavlovwolf:
As to the upper question above, I'm sure Stag has good uppers, but I would give AR Performance a call. If you go to their website you'll see that they have hunter models available. I'm very impressed by the upper they built for me, and I've not heard any negative comments about them. AR P is pushing the performance out the 6.8 to new levels, and he offers custom built quality, and mass merchandiser prices. Their attitude towards their customers is top notch as well. I suggest you give them a call. Just checked...and from the looks of things, they'll be coming out with a few other goodies which I'm interested in acquiring. Thanks for the info. Will be giving them a call shortly down the road. |
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Just called today and put in my order for a 6.8 Recon Barrel and Upper Receiver from AR-Performance and she said it would be about 3-4 weeks till I get it. Now I just have to get the rest of my parts together.  |
ΜOΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
“The object of war is not to die for your country but to make the other bastard die for his.” - Gen. GS Patton
Pie Fixes Everything
03FFL
“The object of war is not to die for your country but to make the other bastard die for his.” - Gen. GS Patton
Pie Fixes Everything
03FFL
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Originally Posted By AR-Performance:
Someone is still using a chart made in 04 to compare the 6.5 and 6.8 so I thought I would throw up a realistic chart made using Bill Alexanders own load data of maximum handloads posted on the Grendel forum and compare them to SSA's factory loads. It's not quite fair but just to show everyone how close they really are. Then there are some hot 6.8 handloads compared to the 6.5 Max handloads. 6.5 Grendel using Bill's max loads in a 16" barrel- zeroed at 200yds drops at 300yds. due to energy being less than 1000ft lbs 300 yds is about max for taking deer or hogs. the same temp, pressure line of sight and program used to figure all drops in both calibers. the 6.5 107 and 123 are match bullets the rest are hunting bullets, bullets at a higher velocity can outperform a higher BC bullet out to mid range only after 500yds do they really start pulling away. 100 Nosler-2600fps––drop 9.4/801 ft lbs 107 SMK-2545fps––––-drop9.5/878ft lbs––-match bullet 123 SMK-2472fps––––drop 9.4/1083ft lbs––-match bullet 120TSX-2472fps––––drop9.8/984ft lbs 6.8 SPC SSA factory ammo 16" barrel 100 Nosler-2700fps––drop9.0/809ft lbs 110 Nosler-2630fps––drop9.0/939ft lbs 6.8 handloads max 100 Nosler 2950fps––-drop 7.4/993ftlbs 110 Nosler 2750fps––drop8.2/1040ftlbs Now if you want to punch paper at over 500 yards then the 6.5 will have better drop and drift but really, how far do you really shoot? In the process of building a 6.8. Using the recent specs (not the ones from several years ago) how do these rounds compare with regard to accuracy? That was one of the things that grendel afficionados said they had an advantage in compared with the 6.8. |
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Originally Posted By jfinan: Originally Posted By AR-Performance: Someone is still using a chart made in 04 to compare the 6.5 and 6.8 so I thought I would throw up a realistic chart made using Bill Alexanders own load data of maximum handloads posted on the Grendel forum and compare them to SSA's factory loads. It's not quite fair but just to show everyone how close they really are. Then there are some hot 6.8 handloads compared to the 6.5 Max handloads. 6.5 Grendel using Bill's max loads in a 16" barrel- zeroed at 200yds drops at 300yds. due to energy being less than 1000ft lbs 300 yds is about max for taking deer or hogs. the same temp, pressure line of sight and program used to figure all drops in both calibers. the 6.5 107 and 123 are match bullets the rest are hunting bullets, bullets at a higher velocity can outperform a higher BC bullet out to mid range only after 500yds do they really start pulling away. 100 Nosler-2600fps––drop 9.4/801 ft lbs 107 SMK-2545fps––––-drop9.5/878ft lbs––-match bullet 123 SMK-2472fps––––drop 9.4/1083ft lbs––-match bullet 120TSX-2472fps––––drop9.8/984ft lbs 6.8 SPC SSA factory ammo 16" barrel 100 Nosler-2700fps––drop9.0/809ft lbs 110 Nosler-2630fps––drop9.0/939ft lbs 6.8 handloads max 100 Nosler 2950fps––-drop 7.4/993ftlbs 110 Nosler 2750fps––drop8.2/1040ftlbs Now if you want to punch paper at over 500 yards then the 6.5 will have better drop and drift but really, how far do you really shoot? In the process of building a 6.8. Using the recent specs (not the ones from several years ago) how do these rounds compare with regard to accuracy? That was one of the things that grendel afficionados said they had an advantage in compared with the 6.8. the G has an advantage as distance with drop and drift as mentioned above. There have been several .5 moa groups posted from both camps at 100, 200, etc. If you want something to hit far off accurate the G is probably your guy. Just depends on what your version of far is. My version of far is 500 yards, 6.8 will do that easily and accurately as will the G. |
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Originally Posted By jfinan:
Originally Posted By AR-Performance:
Someone is still using a chart made in 04 to compare the 6.5 and 6.8 so I thought I would throw up a realistic chart made using Bill Alexanders own load data of maximum handloads posted on the Grendel forum and compare them to SSA's factory loads. It's not quite fair but just to show everyone how close they really are. Then there are some hot 6.8 handloads compared to the 6.5 Max handloads. 6.5 Grendel using Bill's max loads in a 16" barrel- zeroed at 200yds drops at 300yds. due to energy being less than 1000ft lbs 300 yds is about max for taking deer or hogs. the same temp, pressure line of sight and program used to figure all drops in both calibers. the 6.5 107 and 123 are match bullets the rest are hunting bullets, bullets at a higher velocity can outperform a higher BC bullet out to mid range only after 500yds do they really start pulling away. 100 Nosler-2600fps––drop 9.4/801 ft lbs 107 SMK-2545fps––––-drop9.5/878ft lbs––-match bullet 123 SMK-2472fps––––drop 9.4/1083ft lbs––-match bullet 120TSX-2472fps––––drop9.8/984ft lbs 6.8 SPC SSA factory ammo 16" barrel 100 Nosler-2700fps––drop9.0/809ft lbs 110 Nosler-2630fps––drop9.0/939ft lbs 6.8 handloads max 100 Nosler 2950fps––-drop 7.4/993ftlbs 110 Nosler 2750fps––drop8.2/1040ftlbs Now if you want to punch paper at over 500 yards then the 6.5 will have better drop and drift but really, how far do you really shoot? In the process of building a 6.8. Using the recent specs (not the ones from several years ago) how do these rounds compare with regard to accuracy? That was one of the things that grendel afficionados said they had an advantage in compared with the 6.8. IMO if you use factory ammo that will be your limiting factor, 1-1.5moa is the norm. If you reload, have a good scope and good trigger either will cut that moa down. The 6.5 and 6.8 are 300 yard cartridges for hunting both are very close at that range. If you want to shoot 500 yards at paper then the 6.5 has better match style bullets available and will start pulling away from the 6.8 if you really shoot at 500. |
Innovative Tactical Systems LLC
6.8, 5.56, 7.62x39 rifles and uppers
6.8, 5.56, 7.62x39 rifles and uppers
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As if this wasn't obvious already, guys, the little Barnes 85-grain TSX works great on deer.
Shot two does this evening - last day of season, had several deer show up ~200 yards away. The first (mature doe) was 170 yards,broadsided, put a SSA 85-grain factory load through her right shoulder and out the opposite side. Another mature doe ran a bit then stopped to look back, 210 yards, I put another TSX through her ribs. Both bullets passed just over the top of the heart, ruining the lungs, leaving half-dollar sized entrance and exit wounds. Both deer ran ~35 yards before expiring. I'm very satisfied with this bullet.
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...But his word was in mine heart as a burning fire shut up in my bones, and I was weary with forbearing, and I could not stay...All my familiars watched for my halting...But the LORD is with me as a mighty terrible one...
Jeremiah 20 9-11
Jeremiah 20 9-11
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Originally Posted By arowneragain:
As if this wasn't obvious already, guys, the little Barnes 85-grain TSX works great on deer. Shot two does this evening - last day of season, had several deer show up ~200 yards away. The first (mature doe) was 170 yards,broadsided, put a SSA 85-grain factory load through her right shoulder and out the opposite side. Another mature doe ran a bit then stopped to look back, 210 yards, I put another TSX through her ribs. Both bullets passed just over the top of the heart, ruining the lungs, leaving half-dollar sized entrance and exit wounds. Both deer ran ~35 yards before expiring. I'm very satisfied with this bullet. Excellent report, thanks. IMO, the 85 TSX is still the top 6.8 (ETA: ) hunting bullet. It may not be the most accurate, but it certainly is good enough for hunting med. game up to 250 yards ( I average about 1-1.5 MOA, depending on the rifle ) . I shot one hog at 210 yards (we're talking about a 300 lb. boar), and dropped it in its tracks with one shot through the shoulder blades. Last night, I commandoed up on a group of pigs in the river bottom, and with 4 shots dropped one 200 lb. sow and 3 rotisserie sized pigs, with 4 shots. All of them were my handloaded 85 grain TSX's over SSA's powder, and loaded out to 2.30". I believe that the 6.8 and Grendel will be very close in accuracy, but using match bullets, like SMK's will likely edge out the Nosler Accubonds and TSX's, all else being equal. The problem is, that, if you are hunting, especially double-tough animals like hogs, the SMK is not the bullet one would want. |
"Texas - the only state that ever kicked another country's ass."
"I'll never forget September 11, 2001, those who have fought and died, or those who continue to fight to avenge the deaths of over 3000 innocent Americans"
"I'll never forget September 11, 2001, those who have fought and died, or those who continue to fight to avenge the deaths of over 3000 innocent Americans"
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Made the link Hot - http://www.ssarmory.com/images/Articles/Spec_Weap_LE/SPEC_WEAP_LE.html |
| So, what's up with these new 95-grain TTSX bullets? |
...But his word was in mine heart as a burning fire shut up in my bones, and I was weary with forbearing, and I could not stay...All my familiars watched for my halting...But the LORD is with me as a mighty terrible one...
Jeremiah 20 9-11
Jeremiah 20 9-11
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Originally Posted By arowneragain:
So, what's up with these new 95-grain TTSX bullets? This is still considered a prototype, and therefore several weeks will pass before it is released to the public. However, since I (among others) have helped Barnes develop this bullet, I am being given half of the first production run to offer here to AR15.com members in a group buy. That thread is now tacked at the top of this forum. Hurry, because 1000 are already spoken for right now. In short, this bullet opens at a lower velocity than does the 85 TSX. Our tests are showing opening at speeds as low as 1600 FPS. The TSX was opening around 1900 to 2000. This is important for several reasons. First, the bullet can travel farther downrange and still open up at lower speeds. That means it will perform to its expectations at longer ranges, overall. Second, you won't have to push velocity to the extreme because we saw complete mushrooming, with 100% weight retention at speeds as low as 2350 FPS. (these are speeds one would likely see from an 11 or 12" SBR, with relatively mild pressure loads). Third, I am seeing the bullet open up completely on very thin-skinned game such as coyotes. No longer do you have to fear "overpenetration" and reduced expansion because of the exceptional toughness of a monolith. This bullet will have a higher BC than the 85 TSX, which was an intended design feature that addressed some of the admitted shortcomings of the 6.8 SPC. This bullet is built specifically for the 6.8 SPC. In field testing, I am seeing that this bullet is everything that the 85 is, and more. Will I still shoot the 85? Yes, I will. But this bullet will reduce the number of other bullets I shoot by about 75%. This bullet also does some things (which I can't yet discuss) that the TSX series does not. More on that after release. ETA: here's a link to an early performance report and pics: http://www.68forums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12152=1 |
"Texas - the only state that ever kicked another country's ass."
"I'll never forget September 11, 2001, those who have fought and died, or those who continue to fight to avenge the deaths of over 3000 innocent Americans"
"I'll never forget September 11, 2001, those who have fought and died, or those who continue to fight to avenge the deaths of over 3000 innocent Americans"
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Originally Posted By hi-tech-rancher:
Originally Posted By arowneragain:
So, what's up with these new 95-grain TTSX bullets? This is still considered a prototype, and therefore several weeks will pass before it is released to the public. However, since I (among others) have helped Barnes develop this bullet, I am being given half of the first production run to offer here to AR15.com members in a group buy. That thread is now tacked at the top of this forum. Hurry, because 1000 are already spoken for right now. *snip* Thanks - I don't reload so I'm in no hurry to get the preproduction samples; I just hope they're out before next deer season. 2350 fps.....out of an 18" barrel, what distance does that threshold come at? |
...But his word was in mine heart as a burning fire shut up in my bones, and I was weary with forbearing, and I could not stay...All my familiars watched for my halting...But the LORD is with me as a mighty terrible one...
Jeremiah 20 9-11
Jeremiah 20 9-11
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Originally Posted By arowneragain:
Originally Posted By hi-tech-rancher:
Originally Posted By arowneragain:
So, what's up with these new 95-grain TTSX bullets? This is still considered a prototype, and therefore several weeks will pass before it is released to the public. However, since I (among others) have helped Barnes develop this bullet, I am being given half of the first production run to offer here to AR15.com members in a group buy. That thread is now tacked at the top of this forum. Hurry, because 1000 are already spoken for right now. *snip* Thanks - I don't reload so I'm in no hurry to get the preproduction samples; I just hope they're out before next deer season. 2350 fps.....out of an 18" barrel, what distance does that threshold come at? No, that is not the velocity we saw from an 18" barrel. That velocity was achieved from an 11" barrel, using AA 2460 which is a slower powder than is optimum for this bullet or that barrel length. 18" should produce right around 2900 FPS. that would allow the bullet to expand all the way out to about 400 yards. That is an approximation and YMMV, of course. 
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"Texas - the only state that ever kicked another country's ass."
"I'll never forget September 11, 2001, those who have fought and died, or those who continue to fight to avenge the deaths of over 3000 innocent Americans"
"I'll never forget September 11, 2001, those who have fought and died, or those who continue to fight to avenge the deaths of over 3000 innocent Americans"
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Hey HTR what do you feel would be a good max load for a 1/11" 4 groove 16 " barrel and H-322 with the new 95 grain bullets? I have a lot of this powder and have settled on it as my 6.8 "all around" powder.
Approximate velocity also if you have tested it, I also use CCI #41 primers. I saw a post from Bill Wilson on the 68 forum and it had 31 grains of powder but no velocity listed for the 16" only the 18". Was he getting swipes? Thanks! I ordered some bullets yesterday  from you, can't wait to try them out.
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Originally Posted By hi-tech-rancher:
18" should produce right around 2900 FPS. that would allow the bullet to expand all the way out to about 400 yards. That is an approximation and YMMV, of course.
Awesome. Can't wait to try some of them.
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...But his word was in mine heart as a burning fire shut up in my bones, and I was weary with forbearing, and I could not stay...All my familiars watched for my halting...But the LORD is with me as a mighty terrible one...
Jeremiah 20 9-11
Jeremiah 20 9-11
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Originally Posted By BullittBoy:
Hey HTR what do you feel would be a good max load for a 1/11" 4 groove 16 " barrel and H-322 with the new 95 grain bullets? I have a lot of this powder and have settled on it as my 6.8 "all around" powder. Approximate velocity also if you have tested it, I also use CCI #41 primers. I saw a post from Bill Wilson on the 68 forum and it had 31 grains of powder but no velocity listed for the 16" only the 18". Was he getting swipes? Thanks! I ordered some bullets yesterday from you, can't wait to try them out.Thanks for your order!! As for the load with H322, you will likely see about 40-60 FPS less than with 10X, but 30 grains of H322 has been a good load, accuracy wise. Using CCI 41 primers may give you a little extra velocity versus others. That is an excellent choice for an "all around" 6.8 powder. lWe both got presssure signs when we went to 31 grains. 30.5 was still a bit on the warm side in 11 twist barrels. ETA: I have not chrono'ed my 16" barrels with the 30 grain H322 load, but IIRC, Bill was getting around 2750 with that load, in that bbl length. |
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Originally Posted By DesignatedMarksman:
I'm not seeing the 95gr TTSX on SSA's website. Are they in production yet? I'd like to pick up a box for this deer season if I could. SSA has not announced a factory 95 TTSX load yet. I have sent them some data on loads I concocted using their powder, so I am hopeful that one is in the works. You can buy factory 95 TTSX's from Double Tap as of now, but I highly recommend loading them yourself, if you can. If you reload try these powders: 10 X Reloder 7 Both of these produced excellent groups for me. 3 rounds @ 100 yards. Very respectable velocity with this kind of accuracy. This bullet likes to fly @ 2800 FPS. 
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"Texas - the only state that ever kicked another country's ass."
"I'll never forget September 11, 2001, those who have fought and died, or those who continue to fight to avenge the deaths of over 3000 innocent Americans"
"I'll never forget September 11, 2001, those who have fought and died, or those who continue to fight to avenge the deaths of over 3000 innocent Americans"
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I look forward to the bullet info. This deer season should get rid of the last of my 110gr Sierra pro-hunters (which admittedly have always done wonder work out to a hundred yards, as far as I have shots where I hunt). This will give me a chance to work up a higher pressure load now that I've had my kotonics chamber opened up to spc2 specs. :) Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened.
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Hold my donut and watch this!
W. Churchill
Hold my donut and watch this!
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Originally Posted By hi-tech-rancher:
I will be posting some new updated info on bolt gun loads and new bullets for 6.8. Lets get this thread started again... My hunting load - that I will be assembling some of this afternoon - is a 110-grain Accubond over 29.0 grains of N133. I seat to the rear of the cannelure, which will still cycle through all of my mags, and get 2650' at 10' from my 20" Rainer/Shilen barrel. Five rounds at 28.0 grains and five rounds of 29.0 grains all went into less than an inch composite for the ten shots. Yes, I'd like to develop further, but no time this year. eta: finished: 
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...But his word was in mine heart as a burning fire shut up in my bones, and I was weary with forbearing, and I could not stay...All my familiars watched for my halting...But the LORD is with me as a mighty terrible one...
Jeremiah 20 9-11
Jeremiah 20 9-11
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Originally Posted By arowneragain:
My hunting load - that I will be assembling some of this afternoon - is a 110-grain Accubond over 29.0 grains of N133. I seat to the rear of the cannelure, which will still cycle through all of my mags, and get 2650' at 10' from my 20" Rainer/Shilen barrel. Five rounds at 28.0 grains and five rounds of 29.0 grains all went into less than an inch composite for the ten shots. Yes, I'd like to develop further, but no time this year. eta: finished: http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j85/clatch/68-N133_zpsd1cc7e49.jpg Originally Posted By arowneragain:
Originally Posted By hi-tech-rancher:
I will be posting some new updated info on bolt gun loads and new bullets for 6.8. Lets get this thread started again... My hunting load - that I will be assembling some of this afternoon - is a 110-grain Accubond over 29.0 grains of N133. I seat to the rear of the cannelure, which will still cycle through all of my mags, and get 2650' at 10' from my 20" Rainer/Shilen barrel. Five rounds at 28.0 grains and five rounds of 29.0 grains all went into less than an inch composite for the ten shots. Yes, I'd like to develop further, but no time this year. eta: finished: http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j85/clatch/68-N133_zpsd1cc7e49.jpg Looks like a great load there. My 110gr AB load is 28.8gr of AA2200, CCI 450s, seated at COAL of 2.295. All I have are PRI mags so I'm good with that. Velocity is 2680fps from my ARP 16" Recon. I think the CCI 41 would get me 2700fps at 29.0gr, maybe higher but I'd have to test it of course for pressure signs. So far these look like SAAMI factory loads, and measure out that way as well after firing. My best friend's son just took his first deer, on his first deer hunt ever last weekend with my AR, and with that load. The kid took it at 150 yards, with my Mepro M21 ( triangle reticle ). The kid is an eagle eye, natural born shooter. even at his age, I wouldn't have an issue with him taking a shot out to 300 with it with the 200 yard zero. I gave him a dope chart and he memorized the whole thing out to 400 yards , and the placement of the tip of the triangle. |
Don't go ninj'in nobody that don't need ninj'in
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Originally Posted By pavlovwolf:
Looks like a great load there. My 110gr AB load is 28.8gr of AA2200, CCI 450s, seated at COAL of 2.295. All I have are PRI mags so I'm good with that. Velocity is 2680fps from my ARP 16" Recon. I think the CCI 41 would get me 2700fps at 29.0gr, maybe higher but I'd have to test it of course for pressure signs. So far these look like SAAMI factory loads, and measure out that way as well after firing. My best friend's son just took his first deer, on his first deer hunt ever last weekend with my AR, and with that load. The kid took it at 150 yards, with my Mepro M21 ( triangle reticle ). The kid is an eagle eye, natural born shooter. even at his age, I wouldn't have an issue with him taking a shot out to 300 with it with the 200 yard zero. I gave him a dope chart and he memorized the whole thing out to 400 yards , and the placement of the tip of the triangle. Originally Posted By pavlovwolf:
Originally Posted By arowneragain:
Originally Posted By hi-tech-rancher:
I will be posting some new updated info on bolt gun loads and new bullets for 6.8. Lets get this thread started again... My hunting load - that I will be assembling some of this afternoon - is a 110-grain Accubond over 29.0 grains of N133. I seat to the rear of the cannelure, which will still cycle through all of my mags, and get 2650' at 10' from my 20" Rainer/Shilen barrel. Five rounds at 28.0 grains and five rounds of 29.0 grains all went into less than an inch composite for the ten shots. Yes, I'd like to develop further, but no time this year. eta: finished: http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j85/clatch/68-N133_zpsd1cc7e49.jpg Looks like a great load there. My 110gr AB load is 28.8gr of AA2200, CCI 450s, seated at COAL of 2.295. All I have are PRI mags so I'm good with that. Velocity is 2680fps from my ARP 16" Recon. I think the CCI 41 would get me 2700fps at 29.0gr, maybe higher but I'd have to test it of course for pressure signs. So far these look like SAAMI factory loads, and measure out that way as well after firing. My best friend's son just took his first deer, on his first deer hunt ever last weekend with my AR, and with that load. The kid took it at 150 yards, with my Mepro M21 ( triangle reticle ). The kid is an eagle eye, natural born shooter. even at his age, I wouldn't have an issue with him taking a shot out to 300 with it with the 200 yard zero. I gave him a dope chart and he memorized the whole thing out to 400 yards , and the placement of the tip of the triangle. The main reason I am handloading is because CCI #41s won't ignite reliably with my Timney trigger. I'm using CCI BR400s. No problems with them. I would have used a different powder than N133 but powder is a booger to find nowadays and I've had this 2# of N133 for a decade and had never opened it. The data I found indicated that I could probably go up another grain and have a downright fast load, safely, but at 29.0 I'm already compressing the powder pretty good. I just hate the crunching sound when you're seating a compressed load and 29.0 is as far as I took this one. 
I like the accubonds. I've shot 5 deer with them thus far; average distance to recovery is 25 yards - it would be much shorter if one didn't run 100 yards with a longish lung shot. The accubonds just are too tough to expand well at long ranges. FWIW, I know this is heresy to most 6.8 shooters, but if the 110-grain Hornady v-max shot well, I'd hunt with it. They have performed great for me on deer from very close all the way out past 300 yards. I may buy a box and try them in this load one day. |
...But his word was in mine heart as a burning fire shut up in my bones, and I was weary with forbearing, and I could not stay...All my familiars watched for my halting...But the LORD is with me as a mighty terrible one...
Jeremiah 20 9-11
Jeremiah 20 9-11
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Have you tried the 450 primers? They aren't as hard as the 41s, but they are a magnum. You'd get a tad more from them over the 400 for sure. If your trigger set up will ignite them you'd be gtg.
If hazmat wasn't so high I'd send you a couple of hundred of them to try. I have a ton of 400s, but don't really like to use them. I need some more 41s I generally get 50-75fps going from the 400s to the 41s, and the 450s are about 25fps or so slower than the 41s. |
Don't go ninj'in nobody that don't need ninj'in
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Originally Posted By pavlovwolf:
Have you tried the 450 primers? They aren't as hard as the 41s, but they are a magnum. You'd get a tad more from them over the 400 for sure. If your trigger set up will ignite them you'd be gtg. If hazmat wasn't so high I'd send you a couple of hundred of them to try. I have a ton of 400s, but don't really like to use them. I need some more 41s I generally get 50-75fps going from the 400s to the 41s, and the 450s are about 25fps or so slower than the 41s. These and Tula are the only SRPs I have. I foresee it being 3-4 years before I get an honest chance to do real load development - life just isn't going to allow it in the near future and I'm lucky to have hit on a load so soon that does well - so it's sort of moot - but I appreciate the offer. I'm happy with these where they are. Hotter than most factory ammo (SSA Combat loads excepted) and showing a lot of promise in the accuracy department. I think they'll do fine. |
...But his word was in mine heart as a burning fire shut up in my bones, and I was weary with forbearing, and I could not stay...All my familiars watched for my halting...But the LORD is with me as a mighty terrible one...
Jeremiah 20 9-11
Jeremiah 20 9-11
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Hey Pavlovwolf,
Could you tell me where your cannalure is on this load? Useable? thanks. Originally Posted By pavlovwolf:
Looks like a great load there. My 110gr AB load is 28.8gr of AA2200, CCI 450s, seated at COAL of 2.295. All I have are PRI mags so I'm good with that. Velocity is 2680fps from my ARP 16" Recon. I think the CCI 41 would get me 2700fps at 29.0gr, maybe higher but I'd have to test it of course for pressure signs. So far these look like SAAMI factory loads, and measure out that way as well after firing. My best friend's son just took his first deer, on his first deer hunt ever last weekend with my AR, and with that load. The kid took it at 150 yards, with my Mepro M21 ( triangle reticle ). The kid is an eagle eye, natural born shooter. even at his age, I wouldn't have an issue with him taking a shot out to 300 with it with the 200 yard zero. I gave him a dope chart and he memorized the whole thing out to 400 yards , and the placement of the tip of the triangle. |
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Originally Posted By Elessar:
Hey Pavlovwolf, Could you tell me where your cannalure is on this load? Useable? thanks. Originally Posted By Elessar:
Hey Pavlovwolf, Could you tell me where your cannalure is on this load? Useable? thanks. Originally Posted By pavlovwolf:
Looks like a great load there. My 110gr AB load is 28.8gr of AA2200, CCI 450s, seated at COAL of 2.295. All I have are PRI mags so I'm good with that. Velocity is 2680fps from my ARP 16" Recon. I think the CCI 41 would get me 2700fps at 29.0gr, maybe higher but I'd have to test it of course for pressure signs. So far these look like SAAMI factory loads, and measure out that way as well after firing. My best friend's son just took his first deer, on his first deer hunt ever last weekend with my AR, and with that load. The kid took it at 150 yards, with my Mepro M21 ( triangle reticle ). The kid is an eagle eye, natural born shooter. even at his age, I wouldn't have an issue with him taking a shot out to 300 with it with the 200 yard zero. I gave him a dope chart and he memorized the whole thing out to 400 yards , and the placement of the tip of the triangle. I don't crimp. I have my dies set up so that I have enough neck tension that I can chamber a round over and over without setback. |
Don't go ninj'in nobody that don't need ninj'in
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Can you clarify? Does the FCD provide the same benefit? I use a FCD for .223 but didn't realize it could clamp into the copper jacket a bit? I'm assuming this is what you mean. I've always crimped over the cannalure so this idea is new to me?
Originally Posted By pavlovwolf:
As to the position of the canelure, it's well above he case neck, so it wouldn't be usable. If I were to crimp, it would be with the Lee Factory Crimp die, and no canelure is necessary with that die. |
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Originally Posted By Elessar:
Can you clarify? Does the FCD provide the same benefit? I use a FCD for .223 but didn't realize it could clamp into the copper jacket a bit? I'm assuming this is what you mean. I've always crimped over the cannalure so this idea is new to me? Originally Posted By Elessar:
Can you clarify? Does the FCD provide the same benefit? I use a FCD for .223 but didn't realize it could clamp into the copper jacket a bit? I'm assuming this is what you mean. I've always crimped over the cannalure so this idea is new to me? Originally Posted By pavlovwolf:
As to the position of the canelure, it's well above he case neck, so it wouldn't be usable. If I were to crimp, it would be with the Lee Factory Crimp die, and no canelure is necessary with that die. When you have a cannelure, its useful to crimp into it, but rarely is that the proper position for the best OAL with earlier 6.8 bullets, released at the time of SAAMI specs. Most of them are built to be seated at 2.26" and that just forces one to compress powder etc, when we can otherwise get better performance, and perhaps even more accuracy out of a longer OAL. So, I usually ignore the cannelure, and use the Lee FCD to crimp the case mouth (when I feel the need to crimp at all). You do not need a cannelure for a light crimp. This helps to "uniform" the tension on the bullet, concentrically, and also to reduce setback. With much more evolved 6.8 X 43 specific bullets like the Barnes 95 Grain TTSX, or the 82 grain Cutting Edge Raptor, the driving bands were placed in a position that I asked the manufacturer to consider, when we were in the development phase. Barnes did this with the 95 TTSX, so that the case mouth will hold the bullet in a position of around 2.285 to 2.295." Perfect for 6.8 X 43 OALs of the current times. Cutting Edge did this with the Raptor, so that the driving band sits right in the case mouth at 2.290." This supports the bullet, aligns it with the axis of the case and reduces the need for a crimp in the first place. Here's a pic of Raptors loaded to 2.290 OAL:  " />
Here's an 85 TSX, crimped on one of the driving bands, at 2.30" OAL. This was crimped with the Lee but purposely done pretty heavily, to show the marks made on the case. The "cannelure" is outside the case mouth, and the full diameter of the bullet is seated into the mouth. Works just fine. That load shot 1/2 MOA for me.  " />
Hope that helps |
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HTR, I'm definitely going to order some Raptors from you.
I'm wondering though, about the powder. I need more powder for bullets under 90grs. I was using Re7 and getting great results with the 90TNTs, 2890fps -2925fps depending on which primers I used, and outstanding accuracy, but I've seen people using the AA2200 for some lighter bullets as well. I do have the AA2200 for the 100-115gr that I've loaded and it's a great powder, and when I get to try some 120SSTs and 130gr and 140gr bullets, but will it work with the lighter bullets? I guess I need to get some Re7 for whenever the 90gr GD gets released as a component ( hopefully ). |
Don't go ninj'in nobody that don't need ninj'in
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As promised, here are some pics of up to date 6.8 projectiles, including the newest, the 90 grain Gold Dot and the Cutting Edge Raptor. It should be noted that the 90 grain Gold Dot works fine even in SAAMI dimensions, because the bullet is so short. That cannelure is in a position to seat the bullet to about 2.24" OAL, and given how short the shank is, you would be unable to seat it out much further. There is more performance available with this bullet, as ATK stuck to approximately 52,000 PSI to allow for heating in the desert.
From left: 90 grain Gold Dot, Barnes 85 TSX, 85 MPG, 95 TTSX and far right is the Cutting Edge 82 grain Raptor.  " />
In preparation for my presented to CTTSO in Washington, DC this year, I shot approx 100 of these into hog carcasses and got pretty consistent and impressive expansion. Here are some pics compared to the 95 TTSX (which is, in itself among the highest performing 6.8 bullets I've ever fired). Impact velocities are approximately 2400 and 1900 w/r/t the two expanded gold dot bullets shown:  " />
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Wild River Ranch, LLC
www.wildriverranch.net
www.wildriverranch.net
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Originally Posted By pavlovwolf:
HTR, I'm definitely going to order some Raptors from you. I'm wondering though, about the powder. I need more powder for bullets under 90grs. I was using Re7 and getting great results with the 90TNTs, 2890fps -2925fps depending on which primers I used, and outstanding accuracy, but I've seen people using the AA2200 for some lighter bullets as well. I do have the AA2200 for the 100-115gr that I've loaded and it's a great powder, and when I get to try some 120SSTs and 130gr and 140gr bullets, but will it work with the lighter bullets? I guess I need to get some Re7 for whenever the 90gr GD gets released as a component ( hopefully ). The Raptors work very well with AA2200. One of the reasons St. Marks and Alliant went with the 2200 for their commercial collaboration was that 2200 is just a tad slower than the earlier version of their double -based spherical powder. That earlier version was specifically used for 75 (it was an AP round), 80, 85 and 90 grain bullets. That powder gave extreme velocity but was just too fast for anything over 95 grains, whereas 2200 is remarkably capable of pushing everything from the 82 to the 140 grain bullet. Re7 should work very well with the 90 grain Gold Dot. We have always seen consistent accuracy with 85 and 90 grain bullets, with a 29 grain charge of Re7, as you already know. |
Wild River Ranch, LLC
www.wildriverranch.net
www.wildriverranch.net
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Originally Posted By pavlovwolf:
HTR, when will , or is, the Gold Dot going to be available as a component? I'm still not sure. I can't seem to get a straight answer. I have to believe they will eventually be offered for sale as components. |
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www.wildriverranch.net
"THE STATE OF THE 6.8" ... JULY, 2009 (Page 7 of 8)
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