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Posted: 1/31/2016 9:48:09 AM EST
Link Posted: 1/31/2016 10:00:48 AM EST
Very interesting concept! Would definitely be interested in trying this out.
Link Posted: 1/31/2016 2:17:29 PM EST
Interesting but I'll pass. Seems to me it will be dumping a lot of high pressure gass under the handguard making it a filthy mess with some powders. Some powders, like AR COMP, are bad enough making a filthy mess in the BCG so I cannot imagine what kind of mess it would make under the handguards.
Link Posted: 1/31/2016 7:52:16 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Big-Bore:
Interesting but I'll pass. Seems to me it will be dumping a lot of high pressure gass under the handguard making it a filthy mess with some powders. Some powders, like AR COMP, are bad enough making a filthy mess in the BCG so I cannot imagine what kind of mess it would make under the handguards.
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Isn't that the idea? Keep the mess out of the action so your rifle keeps running.
Link Posted: 1/31/2016 8:32:44 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/31/2016 8:35:32 PM EST by acon308]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Jerad:

Isn't that the idea? Keep the mess out of the action so your rifle keeps running.
View Quote

No, I don't think it is...at least not the way you're saying it. I'm not sure I fully understand this gas block system because it is not adequately briefed in the advertisement, and the advertisement does not even attempt to explain why bleeding off the gas is a better option, overall.

On an adjustable block that is similar to Syrac or the SLR block, you restrict the gas that flows back to the action, down to minimum amount necessary to cycle the action. So, whatever amount of gas that happens to be, this Superlative gas block will still have to allow that same amount of gas back into the action...because if it doesn't, then the action won't cycle. Therefore, this block cannot possibly be any "cleaner" than any other adjustable system...if it was, the action wouldn't cycle.

But, more to the point, how does bleeding off the gas help any? When using a Syrac or SLR block, the gas goes two places...some gas goes to the action and the rest goes behind the bullet and out the muzzle. Now, with this Superlative block, there is a third place the gas goes...you now have a portion of the gas flowing out of the gas block into the atmosphere (apparently). The obvious problem is that 99% of people have handguards covering their gas block, which means the carbon will just dirty-up the handguard. That's nonsense. But lets assume that you do not run the handguard covering this Superlative gas block and some gas is vented into the atmosphere via the block, separately from the gas that goes into the action and the gas that goes out the muzzle. ...wouldn't this mean there is less pressure pushing the bullet forward once the bullet passes the gas port? If true, this would mean the "bleed off" works to reduce velocity somewhat...but by a very small amount, admittedly. But what benefit is gained from this when the same amount of gas will still have to be sent into the action to cycle the weapon?? I'm not sure I understand the point, here.

And what does this language mean: "The pressure used in the block is reduced only to the amount required to drive the bolt carrier. The remaining gas / pressure are bled out of the block allowing the system to run much cleaner and cooler." Does this mean that once the bullet passes the gas port, there is no remaining pressuring pushing on the bullet base to increase velocity (and that only inertia carries the bullet the rest of the way down the barrel)? ..bc that is what it sounds like. I'm just trying to understand. Thanks for your help and for trying to make the industry better.

But on the plus side, this block is a few dollars cheaper than other adjustable blocks, so perhaps that is enough to make it worth the purchase, as long as it doesn't carbon up the handguard. ....but I'd like to understand why this "bleed off" design is better if I am correct that the same minimum amount of gas will still be poured into the action (i.e., whatever is the minimum amount necessary to cycle the action). I'd also like to know how much gas is bled off and how much gas remains to push the bullet forward after it passes the gas port.
Link Posted: 1/31/2016 8:51:44 PM EST
I'd also be interested if it makes a piston pop sound when suppressed. Does the gas exit at such high speed pressure that it sneezes when suppressed? lol I think this product needs a video review/ slow motion footage.
Link Posted: 1/31/2016 11:52:46 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/31/2016 11:54:20 PM EST by JSmithXYY]
This has been done on other weapons. w/ what degree of success I am not sure. Saiga 12s has an aftermarket system that audot ajusts and vents.

I am curious how much noise this makes, like when shooting suppressed? Of course, the stoner gas system vents excess gas out of the little holes in the side of hte carrier out the ejection port when the piston anyway...

what about putting a gas tube onto the exhaust port to blow it out farther forward so that an extended handgard doesn't get dirty inside
Link Posted: 2/1/2016 6:22:57 AM EST
I think the point of the bleed off system is to reduce wear on the part that reduces the gas back to the carrier. On most adjustable gas block the full force of the gas is always against that screw that limits the flow which in turn will wear over time. On the bleed off system that is reduced enough to limit the wear to a minimum. That's my take on it.
Link Posted: 2/1/2016 9:07:26 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By acon308:

No, I don't think it is...at least not the way you're saying it. I'm not sure I fully understand this gas block system because it is not adequately briefed in the advertisement, and the advertisement does not even attempt to explain why bleeding off the gas is a better option, overall.


On an adjustable block that is similar to Syrac or the SLR block, you restrict the gas that flows back to the action, down to minimum amount necessary to cycle the action. So, whatever amount of gas that happens to be, this Superlative gas block will still have to allow that same amount of gas back into the action...because if it doesn't, then the action won't cycle. Therefore, this block cannot possibly be any "cleaner" than any other adjustable system...if it was, the action wouldn't cycle.


But, more to the point, how does bleeding off the gas help any? When using a Syrac or SLR block, the gas goes two places...some gas goes to the action and the rest goes behind the bullet and out the muzzle. Now, with this Superlative block, there is a third place the gas goes...you now have a portion of the gas flowing out of the gas block into the atmosphere (apparently). The obvious problem is that 99% of people have handguards covering their gas block, which means the carbon will just dirty-up the handguard. That's nonsense. But lets assume that you do not run the handguard covering this Superlative gas block and some gas is vented into the atmosphere via the block, separately from the gas that goes into the action and the gas that goes out the muzzle. ...wouldn't this mean there is less pressure pushing the bullet forward once the bullet passes the gas port? If true, this would mean the "bleed off" works to reduce velocity somewhat...but by a very small amount, admittedly. But what benefit is gained from this when the same amount of gas will still have to be sent into the action to cycle the weapon?? I'm not sure I understand the point, here.


And what does this language mean: "The pressure used in the block is reduced only to the amount required to drive the bolt carrier. The remaining gas / pressure are bled out of the block allowing the system to run much cleaner and cooler." Does this mean that once the bullet passes the gas port, there is no remaining pressuring pushing on the bullet base to increase velocity (and that only inertia carries the bullet the rest of the way down the barrel)? ..bc that is what it sounds like. I'm just trying to understand. Thanks for your help and for trying to make the industry better.


But on the plus side, this block is a few dollars cheaper than other adjustable blocks, so perhaps that is enough to make it worth the purchase, as long as it doesn't carbon up the handguard. ....but I'd like to understand why this "bleed off" design is better if I am correct that the same minimum amount of gas will still be poured into the action (i.e., whatever is the minimum amount necessary to cycle the action). I'd also like to know how much gas is bled off and how much gas remains to push the bullet forward after it passes the gas port.
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Originally Posted By acon308:
Originally Posted By Jerad:

Isn't that the idea? Keep the mess out of the action so your rifle keeps running.

No, I don't think it is...at least not the way you're saying it. I'm not sure I fully understand this gas block system because it is not adequately briefed in the advertisement, and the advertisement does not even attempt to explain why bleeding off the gas is a better option, overall.


On an adjustable block that is similar to Syrac or the SLR block, you restrict the gas that flows back to the action, down to minimum amount necessary to cycle the action. So, whatever amount of gas that happens to be, this Superlative gas block will still have to allow that same amount of gas back into the action...because if it doesn't, then the action won't cycle. Therefore, this block cannot possibly be any "cleaner" than any other adjustable system...if it was, the action wouldn't cycle.


But, more to the point, how does bleeding off the gas help any? When using a Syrac or SLR block, the gas goes two places...some gas goes to the action and the rest goes behind the bullet and out the muzzle. Now, with this Superlative block, there is a third place the gas goes...you now have a portion of the gas flowing out of the gas block into the atmosphere (apparently). The obvious problem is that 99% of people have handguards covering their gas block, which means the carbon will just dirty-up the handguard. That's nonsense. But lets assume that you do not run the handguard covering this Superlative gas block and some gas is vented into the atmosphere via the block, separately from the gas that goes into the action and the gas that goes out the muzzle. ...wouldn't this mean there is less pressure pushing the bullet forward once the bullet passes the gas port? If true, this would mean the "bleed off" works to reduce velocity somewhat...but by a very small amount, admittedly. But what benefit is gained from this when the same amount of gas will still have to be sent into the action to cycle the weapon?? I'm not sure I understand the point, here.


And what does this language mean: "The pressure used in the block is reduced only to the amount required to drive the bolt carrier. The remaining gas / pressure are bled out of the block allowing the system to run much cleaner and cooler." Does this mean that once the bullet passes the gas port, there is no remaining pressuring pushing on the bullet base to increase velocity (and that only inertia carries the bullet the rest of the way down the barrel)? ..bc that is what it sounds like. I'm just trying to understand. Thanks for your help and for trying to make the industry better.


But on the plus side, this block is a few dollars cheaper than other adjustable blocks, so perhaps that is enough to make it worth the purchase, as long as it doesn't carbon up the handguard. ....but I'd like to understand why this "bleed off" design is better if I am correct that the same minimum amount of gas will still be poured into the action (i.e., whatever is the minimum amount necessary to cycle the action). I'd also like to know how much gas is bled off and how much gas remains to push the bullet forward after it passes the gas port.


This is exactly what came to my mind when I read and reread the article, the dynamics not making any sense. Like the old adage about fixing something that ain't broke. Well said Acon308.
Link Posted: 2/7/2016 7:42:52 AM EST
Agree with the 2 comments above. The first thing that comes to mind is that this would have to have a negative effect on muzzle velocity. I would like to see a side by side comparison using the same gun and changing gas block from standard lowpro to SYRAC to this one. It seams like the usual adjustment system would increase velocity by minimizing excess gas to drive the action and thus more gas to drive the projectile. The Superlative system may decrease velocity to at or below the standard non adjustable system. This is a bench test that needs to be done. mbell556
Link Posted: 2/7/2016 4:13:37 PM EST
tag for updates when they come in
Link Posted: 2/7/2016 8:26:10 PM EST
[Last Edit: 2/7/2016 8:33:46 PM EST by CaptainOverkill]
I for one dont think it will have any notable change in bullet velocity. Certainly not more than using an open gas block vs an adjustable. And if anyone thinks that comment sounds silly think about it.

In either event IF the DI gas blocks are anything like the Bleed off piston gas block you can test this with the same gas block.

On the piston system the bleed off screw works like this:
Tightened all the way down is "no gas land". As you turn the adjustment screw Counter Clockwise it opens up the gas system like a regular adjustable gas block until you get to 4.5-5 complete revolutions. That zone is "Full Open"
Then you continue to rotate adjustment screw Counter Clockwise past "Full Open" and it starts to adjust progressively into the "bleed off zone"

Where I do think this will have a large impact is on backpressure shooting suppressed, gas block temperature and fouling/erosion of the adjustment screw.
Link Posted: 2/7/2016 10:31:35 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By acon308:

No, I don't think it is...at least not the way you're saying it. I'm not sure I fully understand this gas block system because it is not adequately briefed in the advertisement, and the advertisement does not even attempt to explain why bleeding off the gas is a better option, overall.


On an adjustable block that is similar to Syrac or the SLR block, you restrict the gas that flows back to the action, down to minimum amount necessary to cycle the action. So, whatever amount of gas that happens to be, this Superlative gas block will still have to allow that same amount of gas back into the action...because if it doesn't, then the action won't cycle. Therefore, this block cannot possibly be any "cleaner" than any other adjustable system...if it was, the action wouldn't cycle.


But, more to the point, how does bleeding off the gas help any? When using a Syrac or SLR block, the gas goes two places...some gas goes to the action and the rest goes behind the bullet and out the muzzle. Now, with this Superlative block, there is a third place the gas goes...you now have a portion of the gas flowing out of the gas block into the atmosphere (apparently). The obvious problem is that 99% of people have handguards covering their gas block, which means the carbon will just dirty-up the handguard. That's nonsense. But lets assume that you do not run the handguard covering this Superlative gas block and some gas is vented into the atmosphere via the block, separately from the gas that goes into the action and the gas that goes out the muzzle. ...wouldn't this mean there is less pressure pushing the bullet forward once the bullet passes the gas port? If true, this would mean the "bleed off" works to reduce velocity somewhat...but by a very small amount, admittedly. But what benefit is gained from this when the same amount of gas will still have to be sent into the action to cycle the weapon?? I'm not sure I understand the point, here.


And what does this language mean: "The pressure used in the block is reduced only to the amount required to drive the bolt carrier. The remaining gas / pressure are bled out of the block allowing the system to run much cleaner and cooler." Does this mean that once the bullet passes the gas port, there is no remaining pressuring pushing on the bullet base to increase velocity (and that only inertia carries the bullet the rest of the way down the barrel)? ..bc that is what it sounds like. I'm just trying to understand. Thanks for your help and for trying to make the industry better.


But on the plus side, this block is a few dollars cheaper than other adjustable blocks, so perhaps that is enough to make it worth the purchase, as long as it doesn't carbon up the handguard. ....but I'd like to understand why this "bleed off" design is better if I am correct that the same minimum amount of gas will still be poured into the action (i.e., whatever is the minimum amount necessary to cycle the action). I'd also like to know how much gas is bled off and how much gas remains to push the bullet forward after it passes the gas port.
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Originally Posted By acon308:
Originally Posted By Jerad:

Isn't that the idea? Keep the mess out of the action so your rifle keeps running.

No, I don't think it is...at least not the way you're saying it. I'm not sure I fully understand this gas block system because it is not adequately briefed in the advertisement, and the advertisement does not even attempt to explain why bleeding off the gas is a better option, overall.


On an adjustable block that is similar to Syrac or the SLR block, you restrict the gas that flows back to the action, down to minimum amount necessary to cycle the action. So, whatever amount of gas that happens to be, this Superlative gas block will still have to allow that same amount of gas back into the action...because if it doesn't, then the action won't cycle. Therefore, this block cannot possibly be any "cleaner" than any other adjustable system...if it was, the action wouldn't cycle.


But, more to the point, how does bleeding off the gas help any? When using a Syrac or SLR block, the gas goes two places...some gas goes to the action and the rest goes behind the bullet and out the muzzle. Now, with this Superlative block, there is a third place the gas goes...you now have a portion of the gas flowing out of the gas block into the atmosphere (apparently). The obvious problem is that 99% of people have handguards covering their gas block, which means the carbon will just dirty-up the handguard. That's nonsense. But lets assume that you do not run the handguard covering this Superlative gas block and some gas is vented into the atmosphere via the block, separately from the gas that goes into the action and the gas that goes out the muzzle. ...wouldn't this mean there is less pressure pushing the bullet forward once the bullet passes the gas port? If true, this would mean the "bleed off" works to reduce velocity somewhat...but by a very small amount, admittedly. But what benefit is gained from this when the same amount of gas will still have to be sent into the action to cycle the weapon?? I'm not sure I understand the point, here.


And what does this language mean: "The pressure used in the block is reduced only to the amount required to drive the bolt carrier. The remaining gas / pressure are bled out of the block allowing the system to run much cleaner and cooler." Does this mean that once the bullet passes the gas port, there is no remaining pressuring pushing on the bullet base to increase velocity (and that only inertia carries the bullet the rest of the way down the barrel)? ..bc that is what it sounds like. I'm just trying to understand. Thanks for your help and for trying to make the industry better.


But on the plus side, this block is a few dollars cheaper than other adjustable blocks, so perhaps that is enough to make it worth the purchase, as long as it doesn't carbon up the handguard. ....but I'd like to understand why this "bleed off" design is better if I am correct that the same minimum amount of gas will still be poured into the action (i.e., whatever is the minimum amount necessary to cycle the action). I'd also like to know how much gas is bled off and how much gas remains to push the bullet forward after it passes the gas port.


You are overlooking the fact that screw-type adjustable gas-blocks vent gas out of the unsealed threads of the adjustment screw. Gas follows the path of least pressure resistance. These gas-blocks already vent gas out of the gas-block to atmosphere. The issue this design attempts to address, aside from some of the bs marketing claims you have pointed out, is that the adjustment screw threads of conventional adjustable gas-blocks will seize with heavy use.
Link Posted: 2/7/2016 11:16:08 PM EST
Titanium version would be nice.
Link Posted: 2/8/2016 12:40:28 PM EST
bullshit technology and bullshit marketing.

>The pressure of the gas and erosive (or fouling) capabilities will be exactly equal to either a screw restricting direct flow to either the barrel or atmosphere.

>As stated above, it takes the same fucking amount of gas flowing down the tube, however it is 'restricted', 'bled off', or sucked up by your mom

>The fouling under the handguard of even standard .mil M4's gets pretty bad after a while where it's leaking out around the gas tube (as it goes into the A FSP). The fouling with this will be atrocious and ruinous

>Given the extreme skeletal nature of many handguards these days, there is no way I would want high pressure gas 'bleeding off' aka loudly venting under my sandwich clamp, no sir...

>Will make suppressed shooting louder

>Metered SLR gb's use a pin that's ground into essentially an extremely fine and close-fitting piston on the end IOT allow almost zero gas to enter and impinge upon (and clog up) the threads

>Will make your bullets slower and harm ballistics (albeit barely)

>WILL INDEED bleed off a TINY amount of high pressure chamber/barrel gas when shooting suppressed, which is the primary source of fouling as the chamber unlocks with much higher pressures and residual gas turbulence due to suppressor backpressure



And people are already lining up to buy them





Link Posted: 2/8/2016 6:22:48 PM EST
[Last Edit: 2/8/2016 6:23:30 PM EST by BobGenghis]
Seems similar to the FAL's adjustable gas system, which bleeds gas through the top, I don't get the rude responses.
Link Posted: 2/8/2016 9:45:54 PM EST
[Last Edit: 2/8/2016 10:04:41 PM EST by Crosse]
so my peanut brain, sees no issue with this design.

Worst case scenario, low pressure ammo unsuppressed, you "shut it off" and it behaves like a standard plain jane gas block.

Best case scenario, non-suppressed, it is giving a partial amount of excess pressure another outlet.

with saami spec ammo suppressed, more noise due to other outlets for pressure to escape, but you have the plus side of your action not getting beat to death. Down side is there might be more erosion on the gas block and surrounding area?

I can only imagine the the potential velocity loss due to this tiny drop in pressure is miniscual.
Link Posted: 2/8/2016 11:47:06 PM EST
I think the meaning of usIng just enough gas to cycle means after you've adjusted it like any other adjustable gb your only setting it to cycle the bolt. In this case one you've reached that setting the additional gas simple exits the block rather then going down the barrel. That being said I've been nothing but happy with my slr
Link Posted: 2/9/2016 7:19:42 AM EST
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Originally Posted By Corsair:
Titanium version would be nice.
View Quote

Trust me, it's the best money can buy.

Better design, period.

Proven manufacturer

like the 3rd or 4th (hell, maybe the 5th) gen - with associated tweaks from lessons learned

bought one a few months ago. Love it. Gas screw truly does not seize up (although I'm paranoid and still move it once in a while to be sure)


Link Posted: 2/9/2016 4:22:41 PM EST
[Last Edit: 2/9/2016 4:28:59 PM EST by Crosse]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By TacticalDeletion:
http://slrrifleworks.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=496

Trust me, it's the best money can buy.

Better design, period.

Proven manufacturer

like the 3rd or 4th (hell, maybe the 5th) gen - with associated tweaks from lessons learned

bought one a few months ago. Love it. Gas screw truly does not seize up (although I'm paranoid and still move it once in a while to be sure)

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Originally Posted By TacticalDeletion:
Originally Posted By Corsair:
Titanium version would be nice.
http://slrrifleworks.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=496

Trust me, it's the best money can buy.

Better design, period.

Proven manufacturer

like the 3rd or 4th (hell, maybe the 5th) gen - with associated tweaks from lessons learned

bought one a few months ago. Love it. Gas screw truly does not seize up (although I'm paranoid and still move it once in a while to be sure)


So you've actually tested a superlative adjustable gas block to make such claims? Or aware of superlative's engineering history as a parts manufacture? not to take away SLR's quality, but i'd like to know more of superlative's new design.
Link Posted: 2/9/2016 9:09:20 PM EST
I don't understand why. Why add an additional place to vent gas?

I can just dial down my existing gb so that it provides just enough gas to cycle.

Link Posted: 2/10/2016 8:53:16 AM EST
FYI; Tony Russo owns Superlative Arms, and is the one who co-designed the Syrac gas block and their retrofit piston kit system. He holds the co-patent on their system.

This new version gas block with the bleed off, the reason for this thread, is designed by Tony. He solely holds the patent on it.
He uses this block in DI applications and in conjunction with his aftermarket retrofit piston kit systems.

I pass this information on as I was told by Tony over the phone when I called about one of his retrofit piston kits.

Link Posted: 2/10/2016 9:32:20 AM EST
[Last Edit: 2/10/2016 9:40:52 AM EST by Keith1980]
Link Posted: 2/10/2016 1:44:49 PM EST
[Last Edit: 2/10/2016 1:46:16 PM EST by ahrion]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By AlphaOperator:
I don't understand why. Why add an additional place to vent gas?

I can just dial down my existing gb so that it provides just enough gas to cycle.

View Quote

The point of the "bleed off" system is to not dirty the adjusting screw, which will likely seize or cause issues with time. This design, in theory, is supposed to fix that issue along with backing the screw up too much. Think of it as proactive future measures. It's to my knowledge that you don't need to clean the screw as a result of this.

As for dirtying your rail, if you don't want your pretty little rifles to get dirty, scratched, or beat up, you should probably own a Prius and live in San Francisco.


Just saying.
Link Posted: 2/10/2016 7:16:36 PM EST
[Last Edit: 2/10/2016 7:17:41 PM EST by Keith1980]
Link Posted: 2/11/2016 10:39:25 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ahrion:

The point of the "bleed off" system is to not dirty the adjusting screw, which will likely seize or cause issues with time. This design, in theory, is supposed to fix that issue along with backing the screw up too much. Think of it as proactive future measures. It's to my knowledge that you don't need to clean the screw as a result of this.

As for dirtying your rail, if you don't want your pretty little rifles to get dirty, scratched, or beat up, you should probably own a Prius and live in San Francisco.


Just saying.
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Originally Posted By ahrion:
Originally Posted By AlphaOperator:
I don't understand why. Why add an additional place to vent gas?

I can just dial down my existing gb so that it provides just enough gas to cycle.


The point of the "bleed off" system is to not dirty the adjusting screw, which will likely seize or cause issues with time. This design, in theory, is supposed to fix that issue along with backing the screw up too much. Think of it as proactive future measures. It's to my knowledge that you don't need to clean the screw as a result of this.

As for dirtying your rail, if you don't want your pretty little rifles to get dirty, scratched, or beat up, you should probably own a Prius and live in San Francisco.


Just saying.


I fail to see how mitigating gas and carbon buildup spewing out into the handguards (what legacy DI/internal piston stuff already does) means one should own a Prius and live in San Fran.



You should save the GD responses for GD.
Link Posted: 2/11/2016 11:43:03 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By AlphaOperator:


I fail to see how mitigating gas and carbon buildup spewing out into the handguards (what legacy DI/internal piston stuff already does) means one should own a Prius and live in San Fran.



You should save the GD responses for GD.
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Originally Posted By AlphaOperator:
Originally Posted By ahrion:
Originally Posted By AlphaOperator:
I don't understand why. Why add an additional place to vent gas?

I can just dial down my existing gb so that it provides just enough gas to cycle.


The point of the "bleed off" system is to not dirty the adjusting screw, which will likely seize or cause issues with time. This design, in theory, is supposed to fix that issue along with backing the screw up too much. Think of it as proactive future measures. It's to my knowledge that you don't need to clean the screw as a result of this.

As for dirtying your rail, if you don't want your pretty little rifles to get dirty, scratched, or beat up, you should probably own a Prius and live in San Francisco.


Just saying.


I fail to see how mitigating gas and carbon buildup spewing out into the handguards (what legacy DI/internal piston stuff already does) means one should own a Prius and live in San Fran.



You should save the GD responses for GD.

The purpose of weapons should serve three major purposes. Competition, hunting (sport), and self defense.

None of which require (or judge) you to keep your rifle squeeky clean. It's not a fashion show.


That's the point I'm trying to make.
Link Posted: 2/14/2016 11:17:01 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By snakeman48:
FYI; Tony Russo owns Superlative Arms, and is the one who co-designed the Syrac gas block and their retrofit piston kit system. He holds the co-patent on their system.

This new version gas block with the bleed off, the reason for this thread, is designed by Tony. He solely holds the patent on it.
He uses this block in DI applications and in conjunction with his aftermarket retrofit piston kit systems.

I pass this information on as I was told by Tony over the phone when I called about one of his retrofit piston kits.

View Quote



By DI, I suppose you mean SGS, that is the Stoner Gas System, the one where the piston is in the bolt carrier.
Link Posted: 2/15/2016 9:32:49 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By JSmithXYY:



By DI, I suppose you mean SGS, that is the Stoner Gas System, the one where the piston is in the bolt carrier.
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Originally Posted By JSmithXYY:
Originally Posted By snakeman48:
FYI; Tony Russo owns Superlative Arms, and is the one who co-designed the Syrac gas block and their retrofit piston kit system. He holds the co-patent on their system.

This new version gas block with the bleed off, the reason for this thread, is designed by Tony. He solely holds the patent on it.
He uses this block in DI applications and in conjunction with his aftermarket retrofit piston kit systems.

I pass this information on as I was told by Tony over the phone when I called about one of his retrofit piston kits.




By DI, I suppose you mean SGS, that is the Stoner Gas System, the one where the piston is in the bolt carrier.


Correct.

Yes, I know the Stoner system is not a true Direct Impingement system, but DI is wildly accepted term for the Stoner Gas System. Even if it's wrong.
Link Posted: 2/25/2016 11:43:43 AM EST
Interested in this for my new build.
Link Posted: 2/26/2016 11:21:26 AM EST
[Last Edit: 2/26/2016 11:22:45 AM EST by CrazyWhiteGuy]
This is awesome. Anyway to run a little spout to the edge of my HG? Does it pump out the front or what?
Link Posted: 5/26/2016 7:43:56 AM EST
Anyone running one of these yet?
Link Posted: 5/27/2016 9:24:35 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/27/2016 9:25:35 AM EST by rzrsedge]
Thinking out loud here, but couldn't this maybe be better suppressed than you think? Would it not be quieter for the shooter to vent gas up front and forward rather than blowback from residual pressure leaving the chamber after extraction?

ETA: I'm running SLR adjustable block right now
Link Posted: 5/31/2016 10:48:21 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/31/2016 10:52:27 AM EST by mbell]
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Originally Posted By Garmil:
Anyone running one of these yet?
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I did this video review and build. I am taking it out for test firing this week. I am going to look at muzzle velocities with and without bleed off. I can take out a suppressor and as least give a subjective evaluation. Are there any other specific thoughts on what folks want to see in the function test. I will probably be shooting Wednesday or Thursday and should have the video uploaded Friday or Saturday. mbell556

https://youtu.be/HeKg0y628Bs

Edit: this video is the piston kit I do have the DI gas block to review as well. That will be next week. I will check the DI block with a suppressor as well.
Link Posted: 5/31/2016 7:57:41 PM EST
Maybe I'm not understanding the "bleed off" function correctly (details are fuzzy), but the Stoner system is designed to bleed off excessive gas at the ejection port, NOT at the gas block. If it bleeds gas off at the block, isn't there a concern about an underpowered BCG?

Traditionally, the goal has been to limit gas bleed off at the block (better seal). Maybe I'm missing something.
Link Posted: 5/31/2016 8:16:07 PM EST
Link Posted: 6/1/2016 8:16:52 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/1/2016 8:19:00 PM EST by Drummer]
Yes, but in a piston or op rod system, the gas impacts the piston or tappet at the gas block...not at the BCG. There's a big difference. Unless this new wonder gas block is ONLY for piston systems, which makes a whole lot more sense.

The gas block plays little to no part in port erosion. The corner of the port is eroded with every shot no matter what kind of gas block is mounted to the barrel.
Link Posted: 6/1/2016 8:28:10 PM EST
Link Posted: 6/3/2016 7:13:35 AM EST
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Originally Posted By Drummer:
Maybe I'm not understanding the "bleed off" function correctly (details are fuzzy), but the Stoner system is designed to bleed off excessive gas at the ejection port, NOT at the gas block. If it bleeds gas off at the block, isn't there a concern about an underpowered BCG?

Traditionally, the goal has been to limit gas bleed off at the block (better seal). Maybe I'm missing something.
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In the Stoner system the gas coming out of the bolt carrier holes is exhaust and not bleed off. That gas has done it's job of pushing the "piston" or bolt head and affecting the cycling of the BCG. That escaping gas is comparable to the gas leaving the gas cylinder portion of the gas block in a piston system via the vent holes in the side of the gas block cylinder. Some systems have a fixed "bleed off" vent as well, as in the HK 416 that vents a fixed amount forward out of the gas block. HK claims that this lets this fixed system adjust to different pressures from different ammo.This SA system just lets you adjust how much you let bleed off thru the front of the gas block. As far as I can tell looking as the design of the SA system you could use either the restrictive technique or the bleed off technique to adjust gas pressure entering the gas tube. I am going to look at this in the field. You have to back out the adjustment screw 4.5 turns to completely clear the gas port, then backing out further starts the bleed off. So if you back out less that 4.5 turns then you are in the restrictive zone. We'll see how this works in the field. I am also curious if this bleed off affects bullet velocity when bleed off is used and if it makes suppression louder or not. I am going to look at these issues this week. I have had to wait for this tropical low pressure to pass.
Link Posted: 6/5/2016 8:14:16 AM EST
I know this is the piston kit version but I was surprised by something I wanted to share. The bleed-off piston was quieter than the restriction when using a suppressor. I have the DI gas block from SA to build up and test out too. I would suspect I might see similar results with a suppressor. So far I am not seeing a down side to the bleed-off system.
field test of bleed off piston kit https://youtu.be/Cy5XLr3igaU
Link Posted: 6/5/2016 4:15:31 PM EST
I have one on a build I complet ed a few months back but have been too busy to shoot it yet. I'll report back once I get a chance as well. I'm running a lightweight bcg as well so it should work out well.
Link Posted: 6/5/2016 7:30:18 PM EST
This is the kind of stuff that drives me crazy. People dumping products on the market, and announcing it here without even trying them out, or testing them first to see if they'll benefit end users. I know that there's a sucker born every minute, but how about showing proof that the product will even work.
Link Posted: 6/5/2016 10:03:11 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/5/2016 10:10:26 PM EST by Keith1980]
Link Posted: 6/6/2016 3:09:35 PM EST
I found out Saturday nigh it works as expected......if one remembers to turn on the gas to 4.5 turns

Finished the build a month ago, and didn't try to run it until Saturday night. Was dumb founded when it wouldn't eject the spent casing.
Only took me 3 rounds to figure out there wasn't any gas hitting the piston rod. DUH !!!

Now it's raining again, and I have a graduation to attend this weekend. Hopefully it won't be another month to fine tune it.

The owner of Superlative Arms had all the T&E done long before he marketed the system.
IMHO, it's the best retrofit piston kit on the market.
Link Posted: 8/6/2016 4:32:10 PM EST
When using a standard non adjustable block a certain amount of gas will go thru the gas port in the barrel. With this bleed off setup the same exact amount of gas will go thru the gas port in the barrel. Velocity would not be impacted any by the bleed off gas block vs a standard non adjustable block setup.
Link Posted: 8/6/2016 6:41:57 PM EST
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Originally Posted By remanaz:
When using a standard non adjustable block a certain amount of gas will go thru the gas port in the barrel. With this bleed off setup the same exact amount of gas will go thru the gas port in the barrel. Velocity would not be impacted any by the bleed off gas block vs a standard non adjustable block setup.
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I think you may be correct, but you are comparing a non adjustable gas block to this bleed-off adjustable gas block. If you use a restrictive gas block then the "excess" gas is kept in the bore behind the projectile. So theoretically a restrictive adjustable gas block may boost the velocity a tiny bit. So the question is, does this bleed-off sacrifice velocity compared to a standard restrictive adjustable gas block.That is what I found comparing restriction to bleed-off, but it was only 20 fps difference in an unsuppressed upper with the piston system. The difference should be more significant when suppressed. I will be checking that out this week. One surprise was that the bleed-off was quieter when suppressed by 9 db at the shooter's ear.

https://youtu.be/Cy5XLr3igaU
Link Posted: 8/6/2016 8:50:12 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/6/2016 8:56:22 PM EST by remanaz]
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Originally Posted By mbell:


I think you may be correct, but you are comparing a non adjustable gas block to this bleed-off adjustable gas block. If you use a restrictive gas block then the "excess" gas is kept in the bore behind the projectile. So theoretically a restrictive adjustable gas block may boost the velocity a tiny bit. So the question is, does this bleed-off sacrifice velocity compared to a standard restrictive adjustable gas block.That is what I found comparing restriction to bleed-off, but it was only 20 fps difference in an unsuppressed upper with the piston system. The difference should be more significant when suppressed. I will be checking that out this week. One surprise was that the bleed-off was quieter when suppressed by 9 db at the shooter's ear.

https://youtu.be/Cy5XLr3igaU
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Originally Posted By mbell:
Originally Posted By remanaz:
When using a standard non adjustable block a certain amount of gas will go thru the gas port in the barrel. With this bleed off setup the same exact amount of gas will go thru the gas port in the barrel. Velocity would not be impacted any by the bleed off gas block vs a standard non adjustable block setup.


I think you may be correct, but you are comparing a non adjustable gas block to this bleed-off adjustable gas block. If you use a restrictive gas block then the "excess" gas is kept in the bore behind the projectile. So theoretically a restrictive adjustable gas block may boost the velocity a tiny bit. So the question is, does this bleed-off sacrifice velocity compared to a standard restrictive adjustable gas block.That is what I found comparing restriction to bleed-off, but it was only 20 fps difference in an unsuppressed upper with the piston system. The difference should be more significant when suppressed. I will be checking that out this week. One surprise was that the bleed-off was quieter when suppressed by 9 db at the shooter's ear.

https://youtu.be/Cy5XLr3igaU


Ha I watched the first half of your video earlier today before even posting.



Looking at the range for both groups you have close to 100fps range for the restriction test and only 84fps for the bleed off test. It is interesting to see them hit the same low. Looking at the rest of the numbers I would expect the bleed off setting to hit lower than the restriction. With that much variation between rounds I wonder if we would see a larger or smaller difference between the two settings with a more consistent load. Just something to ponder.



Restriction numbers 3143 3188 3207 3220 3245

bleed off numbers 3144 3151 3183 3192 3228


FWIW I chose to compare the non adjustable block vs the bleed off type because the non adjustable is a bleed off type as well. It just directs it into the BCG instead of to atmosphere and an increase in velocity has never been a selling point for the restriction type adjustable blocks.


Link Posted: 8/7/2016 6:58:11 AM EST
remanez, you are right, above, when you say...." the non adjustable is a bleed off type as well. It just directs it into the BCG instead of to atmosphere". In both of these cases the rate limiting factor is the size of the gas port. There should not be any difference in velocity. I realize increased velocity is not a selling point with restrictive gas blocks, and this is as it should be as the difference is small. I just look at these differences because they were questions that came up about this new design. I do think the velocity difference will be greater when suppressed, but as you have pointed out, the velocity of this bleed-off gas block should not theoretically be any different than a non adjustable gas block under the same circumstances. This does lend credence to the claim that there is at least some decrease in heat and dirt delivered to the BCG. I'll be out with the DI bleed-off gas block this week. Any thoughts on particulars I should look at? My ammo is military M193 Ball. It's not very consistent but I'll use the same ammo in all the test firings. I am going to try to get a close up video of the ejection port with a 40 round mag dump (with a suppressor) to compare the bleed-off vs restriction. Hopefully this will give folks a sense of the difference, if any, in blow back between these two techniques of gas adjustment. I'll be looking at sound and velocity differences with a suppressor also.

Link Posted: 8/7/2016 11:18:31 PM EST
Very cool of you to continue testing.

I think the 40 round dump test with supressor should be good info as that is more of what this design is about. Using the same ammo is also good at this point since it keeps the amount of variable down.

I would be interested in seeing another non supressed test but with this DI block that you will be running. But perhaps using 10 rounds per test. This is just more of a curiosity things since the test values leave me wondering if the avg difference was due to the bullet loadings or the extra gas. Like you said earlier, theoretically speaking the extra gas pressure should provide an increase no matter how small. But the fact that both bottomed out at the same number and had other similar numbers lends itself to the possibility that it is the loadings of the ammo. Or could we be seeing an effect of both options combined. Like I said this is pure curiosity.

A test that would be interesting to see would be to test between your current light buffer and a heavier buffer. One that is heavy enough to need a more open setting of the gas block to cycle the gun correctly but still remain restrictive. If we can see true velocity increases by running lighter recoil components and being able to turn the gas down even further, then it may be one more reason for someone to consider this approach to the setup of their rifle.

An ideal test setup for this line of thinking here would probably be along the lines of a Taccom 1oz Delrin buffer with their 10% lighter spring and a 5-6oz (inc bolt) BCG but using a true restrictive gas block like an SLR. The other side being a standard spring, buffer or H buffer, and standard 11oz BCG with a non adjustable block. If this did show a significant improvement in velocity then what if a 3R or 5R barrel was added in the lightweight setup? How much increase might we see then? Sorry just day dreaming here.

Anyway...Thank you for taking the time to do the testing that you have and continue to do. Be safe and shoot well.

----

Robert

Link Posted: 8/8/2016 2:48:42 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/8/2016 2:51:18 PM EST by PFran42]
I picked one up today for a DI 300 BLK PDW that I am working on. I'll be able to do a direct comparison between a SLR/Syrac adj. and this new one. I am primarily interested in reducing suppressed blow-back gasses to my face but (as noted by MBELL), I'll take a reduction in noise any day.

Also, for those of you who asked, the bleed-off port is directed towards the muzzle so I don't think it will be jetting gasses directly towards the hand guards. If anything, it might make removing your suppressor a bit more difficult.

If you haven't watched mbell's video, you should check it out. He's always playing around with the latest tech and does a thorough job at explaining things in layman's terms (maybe that stems from his experience as a doctor?).



EDIT:

Just looked MBELL up. Surgeon no less. Impressive...
Link Posted: 8/9/2016 2:19:51 PM EST
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Originally Posted By CaptainOverkill:
I for one dont think it will have any notable change in bullet velocity. Certainly not more than using an open gas block vs an adjustable. And if anyone thinks that comment sounds silly think about it.

In either event IF the DI gas blocks are anything like the Bleed off piston gas block you can test this with the same gas block.

On the piston system the bleed off screw works like this:
Tightened all the way down is "no gas land". As you turn the adjustment screw Counter Clockwise it opens up the gas system like a regular adjustable gas block until you get to 4.5-5 complete revolutions. That zone is "Full Open"
Then you continue to rotate adjustment screw Counter Clockwise past "Full Open" and it starts to adjust progressively into the "bleed off zone"


Where I do think this will have a large impact is on backpressure shooting suppressed, gas block temperature and fouling/erosion of the adjustment screw.
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I have one of the DI blocks on my AR-10 that I shoot 99% suppressed (16'' Faxon 5R barrel FWIW) and this is exactly how it works.
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