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Sten mags in a Colt 9mm system!! (Page 3 of 6)
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Highland, I probably will do it the same you did yours. There is no way I can trim the front side of the front block unless I relocate the set screws. Do you have any pics of your front block with and without the feed ramp? I was thinking of using my neighbor's grinder, then a file. I let you guys know how it turns out. BTW, I notched 3 sten mags already. I just need to finish the front block then I'm ready to test it. This is the time of the year when I really appreciate South Texas weather. |
| I gave up using the file and brought the blocks to work. We have a model shop and ask one of the guys to do the modification. He'll trim the front block to .475", relocate the set screws and leave the ears on. I asked him to modify the feed ramp also. The rear block will get the ears trimmed off. Hopefully, it'll be ready today so I can test it this week-end. If this works, I will be notching 30 more sten mags. |
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Originally Posted By booker3557: I gave up using the file and brought the blocks to work. We have a model shop and ask one of the guys to do the modification. He'll trim the front block to .475", relocate the set screws and leave the ears on. I asked him to modify the feed ramp also. The rear block will get the ears trimmed off. Hopefully, it'll be ready today so I can test it this week-end. If this works, I will be notching 30 more sten mags. It'll work... if not, you have 4 people who have built working ones to get "tech info" from. |
"I believe in love. I believe in cancer... They are both diseases that need a cure."
WA
WA
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Mine is working so well I went ahead and tapped 4 holes in the lower/magwell adapter and have it all screwed in with 6-32 allen screws. Runs like a champ and now has no chance of moving. Leaving the ears on the front, I found, works well at keeping the mag from moving in the magwell. Good luck with your project, granted with the front trimmed to .475" it really wont be an issue of luck. You should be good to go!! [beer] |
| I got my mag blocks back today from the model shop. The front of the front block, along with the set screws, was trimmed. I had the machinist copy the mechanism of the Colt one-piece mag block to hold the front block in the mag well. All I need to do is tighten one allen screw in the bottom to lock in the front block. It's works pretty good. I also had him make a brand new feed ramp. I will do some final fitting for both the blocks and the mags tonight. If everything goes well, I will be testing the set-up this week-end. |
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I just remembered something..... and I forgot to mention it. (I must be getting old.) A while back, I sent off my Sten block and three mags to Cavalry Arms. Any how, it was tested in one of their lowers.....full auto 9mm lowers that is. It operated perfectly they said. Five hundred (500) rounds and no "major" problems. One "minor" one... the set screw got loose and it fell out. No biggy. It was mainly run by SinistralRifleman while it was there. |
"I believe in love. I believe in cancer... They are both diseases that need a cure."
WA
WA
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I know that Sellier&Bellot is not a recommended ammo in .223, but in 9mm the stuff runs like a champ!! I ran about 200 rounds of it this afternoon and it worked flawlessly. It was also good to see that after "pinning" the mag well adapter everything still functions perfectly. I guess it is time to hit up my local FFL for a case of the stuff. If you do not have the Sten mag loader you are crazy, it is the best ~$30 you can spend after setting up your lower to use Sten mags!! Good luck all! Kaliburz, once I find the digital camera I will send you pics. With Christmas coming I know I can make the wife look harder fo it!![;)] [beer] |
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SUCCESS !!!! It works. I tried both slow and rapid fire. My only problem is that out of the 5 mags I used, only 3 functioned without any problem. I have to convert more sten mags. Also, HighlandMac is right. You need a sten mag loader. My thumb is raw from loading. I just received a CDNN catalog and they are selling one for only $4.99. This one is designed and made in Finland. They also have one for the UZI for only $2.99. I will get both and see if they work. I'm now thinking buying another lower and make it a dedicated 9mm, maybe even have the blocks pinned like HighlandMac. HM, can you send me pics of your lower? Thanks to everybody for all the help. |
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booker3557, Congratulations!!! Welcome to the club! [:D] What was the other 2 Sten mags doing? Maybe it's a quick fix. Granted, Stens are cheap, so 2 mags out of 5 not working..... it isn't bad. Let us know what's up, we might be able to give some suggestions to get those mags to work. |
"I believe in love. I believe in cancer... They are both diseases that need a cure."
WA
WA
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Kaliburz, Thanks ... I fixed one the mags when I got home. I just have to make the notch just a tad bigger. The mag was seating too high. The other mag's problem seems to the lips. The angle of the top round seems to be too high. I'm going to try to squeeze the lips. BTW, aside from notching the left side, I had to do 3 more things to modify my sten mags. I had to cut the front of mag 3/16" in order for the mag to sit higher in the magwell. I think this is becasue of the new feed ramp. I also had to cut a little off the back to clear the bolt hold open mechanism. Lastly, I had to squeeze the mag stop (don't know what you call them) on both sides of the mag. I have 24 mags to modify this week. Thanks again. |
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Originally Posted By booker3557: HM, I asked a friend at work to see if its feasible to design/make a follower that will have a bolt hold open mechanism for the sten and for the uzi mag. I know it's wishful thinking but you'll never know. Well, you never know.... it's the little ridge on the back of the Sten that makes me worried... |
"I believe in love. I believe in cancer... They are both diseases that need a cure."
WA
WA
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It's the nature of the system. The 9mm AR is a blowback system, and all that shit just gets thrown back into the action. I've used the Winchester white box (50 round packs, and 100 round valuepacks) and it's pretty dirty. I've also used the Greek 124gr stuff that ammoman.com was selling. While it's pretty anemic, it was a little bit cleaner. I think it's just something that we'll have to live with. -Gloftoe |
Texas -
Bigger than France.
Bigger than France.
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Well, it's been a spendy couple of weeks [:(], not counting the upcoming holidays. Let's see I now have a RRA 9mm upper, [red][s]24 Sten magazines[/s][/red], and a JRW 9mm magwell block on the way. [bounce] The magwell block should be here tomorrow. Then I'll start the conversion [:)] Hope to have everything, by the end of next week. Kaliburz, thanks for the conversion instructions.[;)] I'll keep ya up-to-date on how the conversion goes. [red]Edited to say: Apparently Tapco is out of all Sten mags [>Q][/red] Jamie |
{freakinsmartazznutcasepowertrippinrudecanukstaffalwayswiththeattitude} [}:D]
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Originally Posted By Gloftoe: It's the nature of the system. The 9mm AR is a blowback system, and all that shit just gets thrown back into the action. I've used the Winchester white box (50 round packs, and 100 round valuepacks) and it's pretty dirty. I've also used the Greek 124gr stuff that ammoman.com was selling. While it's pretty anemic, it was a little bit cleaner. I think it's just something that we'll have to live with. The hotter the load, the dirtier your 9mm's gonna get. With hot loads, more recoil results in the bolt going back more quickly, and when the brass's seal with the chamber opens, you get some blowby of hot, dirty combustion gases into the upper and lower receivers. An anemic load, or a shorter barrel will lessen this considerably: Lighter load means less recoil, means bolt takes longer time to open, means more combustion gases have dissipated before the cartridge/chamber seal opens. Shorter barrel means bullet's out of the bore more quickly, so pressures drop more quickly, and you get less blowby. If you want a clean shooting 9mm, use a 5" barrel (which would also look pretty darn cool!) - although that means registering your carbine as an SBR, or only doing it on a full auto. |
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Are these the folks that make the 2-piece block that Brownells sells? (found the addy on the Knob Creek page) J.R.W. SPORTS 142 E. FLOYD AVE. LAKE MARY, FL 32707 (407) 328-7836 If so, anyone know them? Maybe they would be willing to make a version that is ready to drop-in without us having to do the extra machning.... |
Nothing to see here... keep it moving... no loitering...
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I'm about to cut up a mag block and I have some questions. Did any of you think to cut the rear block down to flush with the Colt mag groove? My mag block shows 0.110" of material that does nothing. The only thing I can think is it may be harder to keep the rear block square in the mag well if it is thinner. When I look at the shape of the Sten mag it looks like the position of the bullet will not be be that different than the with the Uzi mag if I do it this way. I also keeps me from cutting into the set screws. Any comments? |
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Originally Posted By Paul556: I'm about to cut up a mag block and I have some questions. Did any of you think to cut the rear block down to flush with the Colt mag groove? My mag block shows 0.110" of material that does nothing. The only thing I can think is it may be harder to keep the rear block square in the mag well if it is thinner. When I look at the shape of the Sten mag it looks like the position of the bullet will not be be that different than the with the Uzi mag if I do it this way. I also keeps me from cutting into the set screws. Any comments? I'll try to answer this.... if I can (late night/early attempt...) I'm re-reading the second sentance, but my mind is drawing a blank. The back block was left mainly entact, other then removing the "ears" that postion the Colt mags. It's possible the back might be thicker slightly. The back blocks I measured were all the same. Odds are this post didn't answer anything.... as my mind is blank. |
"I believe in love. I believe in cancer... They are both diseases that need a cure."
WA
WA
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I hope to have my drop in Sten mag Colt blocks ready by Feb 1st. Right now I am waiting on the (250) ejectors and they have set a (subject to change) delivery date of Jan 22 I'll post pic's of the blocks themselves and installed. |
anything less than 800rnds wasn't worth getting the gun dirty.
April 6, 2006 - I can wait.
April 6, 2006 - I can wait.
| I completed my first sten block yesterday. Started with the block from brownells, milled .110 from the front of the front block and removed rest of the material from the back of same block to .468 thickness. I left the wings intact on the front block, but removed them on back block. Very nice fit, can wobble the free end of 32 round mag maybe 1/16 inch. The original back block required a bit of fitting, 5 minutes work. I am very pleased. Thanks for all of your development work to follow. |
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Originally Posted By fijfi: I'll keep ya up-to-date on how the conversion goes. [red]Edited to say: Apparently Tapco is out of all Sten mags [>Q][/red] Jamie [size=3][red]This isn't good -- I just tried to put in an order for stens and looks like TAPCO is all tapped out on stens![/red][/size=3] |
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Originally Posted By AR-fan: Originally Posted By fijfi: I'll keep ya up-to-date on how the conversion goes. [red]Edited to say: Apparently Tapco is out of all Sten mags [>Q][/red] Jamie [size=3][red]This isn't good -- I just tried to put in an order for stens and looks like TAPCO is all tapped out on stens![/red][/size=3] [img]http://rockbottomdlux.freewebspace.com/smilies/MouthDrop.gif[/img] [img]http://rockbottomdlux.freewebspace.com/smilies/Sigh.gif[/img] [img]http://rockbottomdlux.freewebspace.com/smilies/Worried.gif[/img] [img]http://rockbottomdlux.freewebspace.com/smilies/Sniffle.gif[/img] [img]http://rockbottomdlux.freewebspace.com/smilies/Bawl.gif[/img] [img]http://rockbottomdlux.freewebspace.com/smilies/Idea.gif[/img] |
"I believe in love. I believe in cancer... They are both diseases that need a cure."
WA
WA
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Originally Posted By Kaliburz: Originally Posted By AR-fan: Originally Posted By fijfi: I'll keep ya up-to-date on how the conversion goes. [red]Edited to say: Apparently Tapco is out of all Sten mags [>Q][/red] Jamie [size=3][red]This isn't good -- I just tried to put in an order for stens and looks like TAPCO is all tapped out on stens![/red][/size=3] [url]http://rockbottomdlux.freewebspace.com/smilies/MouthDrop.gif[/url] [url]http://rockbottomdlux.freewebspace.com/smilies/Sigh.gif[/url] [url]http://rockbottomdlux.freewebspace.com/smilies/Worried.gif[/url] [url]http://rockbottomdlux.freewebspace.com/smilies/Sniffle.gif[/url] [url]http://rockbottomdlux.freewebspace.com/smilies/Bawl.gif[/url] [url]http://rockbottomdlux.freewebspace.com/smilies/Idea.gif[/url] Kaliburz and JAFO got them ALL [shock] Jamie |
{freakinsmartazznutcasepowertrippinrudecanukstaffalwayswiththeattitude} [}:D]
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What would you charge to "Colt" notch my Sten mags (the fella that is doing on a mill)? I have 10, Kurt making barrel at this time, I'm going 8.5", w/AWC MK9 on end and under a carbine length tube by 2.75". If I can find a steel block set, I'm thinking of grafting the blocks to an Uzi mag well and use my plain Uzi mags. The Uzi well would stick out the bottom maybe 3" at most I think. ProfGAB--are you getting 250 block sets also? |
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Well I now have 20 Stens on the way. The upper got mailed yesterday and I already have the magwell adapter, looking like I'll be shooting before New Years [bounce]. I ended up ordering the Stens from here [url=http://gunsnammo.com/] Wholesale Guns & Ammo[/url] Have a Great Holiday Season! Jamie |
{freakinsmartazznutcasepowertrippinrudecanukstaffalwayswiththeattitude} [}:D]
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Originally Posted By booker3557: SUCCESS !!!! It works. I tried both slow and rapid fire. My only problem is that out of the 5 mags I used, only 3 functioned without any problem. I have to convert more sten mags. Also, HighlandMac is right. You need a sten mag loader. My thumb is raw from loading. I just received a CDNN catalog and they are selling one for only $4.99. This one is designed and made in Finland. They also have one for the UZI for only $2.99. I will get both and see if they work. I'm now thinking buying another lower and make it a dedicated 9mm, maybe even have the blocks pinned like HighlandMac. HM, can you send me pics of your lower? Thanks to everybody for all the help. Here is the link to Kaliburz photo links. [url]photos.yahoo.com/bc/wazzu98grad/lst?&.dir=/Sten+project&.src=ph&.begin=9999&.view=t&.order=&.done=http%3a//photos.yahoo.com/bc/wazzu98grad/lst%3f%26.dir=/Sten%2bproject%26.src=ph%26.view=t[/url] And here are the pics from my pinned lower, actually I used a 6-32 allen screw 3/8" long to pin it. [img]us.f1.yahoofs.com/users/c661b06/bc/Sten+project/HighlandMac1.jpg?bcAKKD.AB7_5Ylb2[/img] and the other side [img]us.f1.yahoofs.com/users/c661b06/bc/Sten+project/HighlandMac2.jpg?bc.KKD.Aa2qyfSQk[/img] And the whole gun, I do have a midlength Oly Firsh coming so then I will call it a complete project!! [img]us.f1.yahoofs.com/users/c661b06/bc/Sten+project/HighlandMac.jpg?bcNLKD.AqaiH3ApO[/img] [beer] |
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Originally Posted By SBR7_11: ProfGAB--are you getting 250 block sets also? 100 Mag block sets - getting 250 ejectors, some will later be used on my Thompson mag lower receiver. |
anything less than 800rnds wasn't worth getting the gun dirty.
April 6, 2006 - I can wait.
April 6, 2006 - I can wait.
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Originally Posted By ProfGAB101: Originally Posted By SBR7_11: ProfGAB--are you getting 250 block sets also? 100 Mag block sets - getting 250 ejectors, some will later be used on my Thompson mag lower receiver. OK, so how much are you asking? And are you taking orders yet? |
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[red][size=4]UPDATED - March 6, 2003[/size=4][/red] Final Retail Price will be $119 for complete set with tools. I Was going to include one mag with each set, but it appears TAPCO has bottomed out, so that doesn't look like it will happen. I will notch (your) one mag free and additional mags @ $1 ea. plus shipping. But if the mags are shipped to me with your order I will cover the shipping. No need to get on a list, I will be making a hundred sets in the first lot. Also as an initial offering I will give ARFCOM members a discounted price of $99 until 03/01/03. Units are expected to be ready to ship first week of FEB. I will post if they are ready earlier. If you want to be notified via email about the release drop me a email. As for deposits, I don't believe in taking peoples money until the day the units are ready to ship. BTW - this is a fund raiser for full AFRCOM membership. Edit: - Oh, please don't send me any mags from a "reduced capacity" only state like CA or NJ - as an FFL I would not be able to return them. If I can find another source of low cost Sten mags I may "chop" a few such that they would be almost flush with the bottom of the mag well and may use that project to make some 10rnd mags. [blue]Some of you are aware of my current legal battle... That has caused a major disruption of this project. - EITHER WAY I intend to finish these and offer them as promised. Since these are not a item which requires an FFL I will be able to complete these no matter how events play out. The computer system which contained all the prints & drawings was seized by police in there case against my (X)roommate. I have filed a motion for "Return of Property" which should cause them to copy any needed info and give me my system back so I can complete this. All the tooling is ready - I just don't want to have to start over. Lastly - if you were on my emailing list - that was in that system also, so I don't have a list of your names separate from that. Since I use a unusual email program (the Bat) I don't think they (police) will be able to do much with it.[/blue] |
anything less than 800rnds wasn't worth getting the gun dirty.
April 6, 2006 - I can wait.
April 6, 2006 - I can wait.
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Originally Posted By Gloftoe: Busted links. Well, heck..... I don't know why it won't work. The pics are on the Yahoo Album. I guess one will have to click on the link to take a gander at them. Oh, the agony of an extra window open...... |
"I believe in love. I believe in cancer... They are both diseases that need a cure."
WA
WA
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Originally Posted By HighlandMac: Originally Posted By booker3557: SUCCESS !!!! It works. I tried both slow and rapid fire. My only problem is that out of the 5 mags I used, only 3 functioned without any problem. I have to convert more sten mags. Also, HighlandMac is right. You need a sten mag loader. My thumb is raw from loading. I just received a CDNN catalog and they are selling one for only $4.99. This one is designed and made in Finland. They also have one for the UZI for only $2.99. I will get both and see if they work. I'm now thinking buying another lower and make it a dedicated 9mm, maybe even have the blocks pinned like HighlandMac. HM, can you send me pics of your lower? Thanks to everybody for all the help. [beer] HighlandMac, I also have the 9mm conversion pics on my ar15.com photo server, here are the pics. [:D]For some reason alot of us can't view links from us.f1.yahoofs.com [:(] This is the info on HighlandMac's dedicated 9mm lower, along with pics And here are the pics from my pinned lower, actually I used a 6-32 allen screw 3/8" long to pin it. [img]http://photos.ar15.com/ImageGallery/IG_LoadImage.asp?iImageUnq=3079[/img] and the other side [img]http://photos.ar15.com/ImageGallery/IG_LoadImage.asp?iImageUnq=3080[/img] And the whole gun, I do have a midlength Oly Firsh coming so then I will call it a complete project!! [img]http://photos.ar15.com/ImageGallery/IG_LoadImage.asp?iImageUnq=3078[/img] |
{freakinsmartazznutcasepowertrippinrudecanukstaffalwayswiththeattitude} [}:D]
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Well the upper FINALLY came today and the Sten came a couple of days ago. [bounce] Toobad I'm leaving town for a week, going to California, for a school [:(] At least I know what I'll be doing when I get back. [bounce] Jamie |
{freakinsmartazznutcasepowertrippinrudecanukstaffalwayswiththeattitude} [}:D]
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Originally Posted By ProfGAB101: I hope to have my drop in Sten mag Colt blocks ready by Feb 1st. ProfGAB101, I was just wondering what you meant by "Drop In"? Is your conversion a one piece or two piece? Will it actually just drop in from the top or will the parts be held in place by some type of fasteners? This really is a good deal since the two piece blocks from Brownell's start at $120 and then they need to be modified. The price for doing the mags is also great. |
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[jump] [jump] I was just informed by [hail2] AR-fan [hail2] that he has finished his 357 Sig upper that uses the Sten block and Sten mags. [shock] [shock] Looks like we can say that there is a second caliber for the use in the Sten block now! [beer] [beer] [bounce] [bounce] [hail2] [hail2] [hail2] [hail2] [hail2] |
"I believe in love. I believe in cancer... They are both diseases that need a cure."
WA
WA
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Originally Posted By XDIVER1: Hey ProfGAB101 Are the Sten mag blocks a realality yet and if so , how can I purchase a set. Thanks Jim Haven't heard from ProfGAB in awhile concerning these, guess I'll send him an e-mail in the morning....errr later in the morning [:)] Jamie |
{freakinsmartazznutcasepowertrippinrudecanukstaffalwayswiththeattitude} [}:D]
Per mail received 1-25-03: Hello ARFCOM users, Greg *********- Type 07 FFL Special Services Mfg & Engineering P.O. Box 7571 Colorado Springs, CO 80933 719-337-8406 Update report: - Colt AR15 conversion to Sten Mag kits. I spent Wednesday kicking asses and making phone calls. This project is behind and I'm getting impatient with the delays. I bet a few of you are impatient also. First, I'll detail exactly what this kits is, then tell you where we are at. The Kit consists of a 2 piece mag well adaptor block set based on the Colt pattern. The rear block contains a fixed stainless steel ejector which is identical to the original Colt ejector. (I have replaced my original Colt part with the new stainless part.) It is held by the same method - two 1/8 inch roll pins. The front block has a pseudo "V" cut in it to center the magazine and hold it square. Also the font block contains a Steel feed ramp which also limits over travel when seating a magazine. Both blocks are retained in position in the mag well by a pair of gripping plungers. These plungers are locked/unlocked by a ¼ turn of a recessed setscrew. A second setscrew is then used to lock the cam to be sure nothing comes loose during intense firing… Don't want anything to spoil the fun. The plungers, cams, feedramp, setscrews and roll pins are of steel and will be black oxide finished. The actual mag blocks will be 6061T6 with a hard matte black anodize coating. Also included will be the proper "Allen" type hex wrench. If I am able to locate a source for inexpensive Sten mags I will supply 1 modified mag with the kit. I will also modify 1 customer provided mag free and additional mags can be modified for $1 each. (I won't be refinishing the notch) If I locate a stash of mags after these initial units have been sold I will still ship a free mag on my nickel. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- STATUS: The item I feared would be the hard part has been completed. I was able to get the ejectors done up in stainless as my vendor for this item had a surplus of the exact material required. This didn't change the price but did assure an on time delivery. My order for the steel required for the plungers and the feed ramp assy was cancelled by the steel company, and they didn't bother to notify me of that fact. After the shipment was a week past due I was started making calls and was finally able to determine that the order was cancelled because it was below there minimum order for delivery. They didn't bother to call, they just "Round filed" it. I am having some custom tooling made - (details - I'm having a Hardinge 5C Emergency Collet wire EDM'd to hold the feed ramp assy) this should have been ready, but was not. A phone call there as a BTT since it had some how drifted onto a back burner there. (these two issues kind of cancelled each other - couldn't use the collet without the Steel stock…) I have a preban lower, and a Genuine Pony small hole upper and barrel assy for testing. (and plenty of ammo) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Options: I may also make up a bolt catch blocking plate. - This is for people who intend to set up a dedicated lower for Sten mags. It would fit in place of the bolt catch to provide a cleaner appearance and stiffen the lower should anyone "Drop the Hammer" without an upper & BC in position. Hard Nylon plungers: - If it appears that the locking plungers are leaving marks I may replace the steel plungers with Nylon plungers. - This has yet to be determined. (I may ship them with both). Lastly - I am looking into a large qty batch refinish - either Park or Blue - If I can get the price right I will open this one time project to all - maybe get 500 - 2000 mags blasted and refinished as one large lot. Depending on the deal I may be able to open this up to all stick mags - Colt, Uzi, Sten, M3, etc. Note: There are some others that are working on Sten mag / mag follower modifications to get the Colt 9mm bolt catch to work. I am not involed in this at this point. Many people choose to go the sten route for cost, I can't see spending $20 or so per mag to get that function. - If a cheap method does appear… Also - back in 92 I did a large quantity of Uzi mags, notched for Colt. We also made up a bunch of followers which replaced the uzi follower and did actuate the Colt bolt catch. - At the time I didn't own a 9mm AR so I didn't keep a sample… This is the first Emailing on this, if you are no longer interested, reply and ask to be removed. I am spending this weekend at a local gun show lobbying for S24 - a state wide "Shall Issue" concealed carry bill which the Governor has all ready endorsed. Greg -- Best regards, ProfGAB101 mailto:[email protected] |
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all my parts came and I slapped em together *Barreled RRA upper *RRA 6 pos. stock *ARMS #38 Swan with rear sight *Aimpoint M2 w/railgrabber *Surefire 6p flahlight *Oly Arms stubby FIRSH for my 7.5" barrel *KAC rail covers. *KAC broomhandle vert grip [:D] now I'm just waiting on my bolt ramping and this conversion block.[:(] HEY DOC! do you know how much $$ for shipping we should include on 40 stenmags that we want to have slotted? I cant wait to do this [uzi] [sex] |
Sten mags in a Colt 9mm system!! (Page 3 of 6)
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