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Posted: 11/23/2015 3:49:10 PM EDT
[#1]
Quoted: I've heard that stainless steel barrels are very accurate buy the life expectancy of the barrel is less. How much less are we talking? Anyone here have high round count SS barrels that are still plenty accurate? ADCO did a test years ago, and that SS barrel had north of 14K rounds, with full auto fire included (really heating it up), and it was still shooting minute of man, IIRC. I'll see if I can find the link. |
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Posted: 11/23/2015 3:56:38 PM EDT
[#2]
OP, if you are looking for sub to1MOA accuracy out of a stainless barrel look to change it every 4-5K rounds... If you are looking at 2-4K MOA you can probably say 10-12K rounds is the point that kind of MOA is going to degrade. But by that time the amount of $ in ammo you've spent a new barrel is just a drop in the bucket. With a bench/table vice, upper receiver blox worx from Spikes, barrel wrench and torque wrench you can de-install the old and install the new barrel in 20-25 minutes...
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Posted: 11/23/2015 3:59:03 PM EDT
[#3]
Too many variables to generalize. However, some national bench rest shooters with bolt action rifles with ultra expensive stainless match barrels are having the barrels nitride treated. They are getting extended barrel life on barrels that must shoot in the 2s (2/10 MOA or better) to be competitive.
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Posted: 11/23/2015 4:02:22 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
OP, if you are looking for sub to1MOA accuracy out of a stainless barrel look to change it every 4-5K rounds... If you are looking at 2-4K MOA you can probably say 10-12K rounds is the point that kind of MOA is going to degrade. But by that time the amount of $ in ammo you've spent a new barrel is just a drop in the bucket. With a bench/table vice, upper receiver blox worx from Spikes, barrel wrench and torque wrench you can de-install the old and install the new barrel in 20-25 minutes... Where do you get these numbers? No just no.... your data is incorrect and unsupported. On that note not all SS barrels are created equally and not all wear the same. So many factors come into play in wearing out a barrel. If you are shooting nothing but super hot high velocity loads it will wear faster. If you do lots of mag dumps constantly heating the barrel up to high temp it will wear faster. Full auto fire will wear it faster. A reasonable shooter who bench shoots could go many many years before they even begin to see accuracy drop offs 10-15K+. |
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Posted: 11/23/2015 4:22:35 PM EDT
[#5]
I have a have a DPMS HBAR that I pulled off at 4660 that was still High Master score capable (I wasn't at the time) and a another that my dad uses that's currently at 4800 and still put down a Master score with a fellow Distinguished Rifleman behind it. In a vice, they're probably 0.75-1 MOA guns at 100 yards.
However, my 100 yard ammo is rather light. A consistent diet of full-boogy XTC loads might just burn it out (1.25 MOA+) in 5K or less. |
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Posted: 11/24/2015 7:38:03 PM EDT
[#6]
Running close to 4K through mine - as good as new.
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Posted: 11/26/2015 4:26:10 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Define accurate. ADCO did a test years ago, and that SS barrel had north of 14K rounds, with full auto fire included (really heating it up), and it was still shooting minute of man, IIRC. I'll see if I can find the link. ETA: Link: http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_2_130/158390_My_18_month__15K_rounds_SS_barrel_range_report_.html Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I've heard that stainless steel barrels are very accurate buy the life expectancy of the barrel is less. How much less are we talking? Anyone here have high round count SS barrels that are still plenty accurate? ADCO did a test years ago, and that SS barrel had north of 14K rounds, with full auto fire included (really heating it up), and it was still shooting minute of man, IIRC. I'll see if I can find the link. ETA: Link: http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_2_130/158390_My_18_month__15K_rounds_SS_barrel_range_report_.html People usually buy stainless barrels for 1 MOA groups, not minute of man at 300 meters. An off the rack military issue M4 will do that at almost double the round count. |
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Posted: 11/26/2015 4:51:58 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
People usually buy stainless barrels for 1 MOA groups, not minute of man at 300 meters. An off the rack military issue M4 will do that at almost double the round count. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I've heard that stainless steel barrels are very accurate buy the life expectancy of the barrel is less. How much less are we talking? Anyone here have high round count SS barrels that are still plenty accurate? ADCO did a test years ago, and that SS barrel had north of 14K rounds, with full auto fire included (really heating it up), and it was still shooting minute of man, IIRC. I'll see if I can find the link. ETA: Link: http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_2_130/158390_My_18_month__15K_rounds_SS_barrel_range_report_.html People usually buy stainless barrels for 1 MOA groups, not minute of man at 300 meters. An off the rack military issue M4 will do that at almost double the round count. Yeah. Missed the point. Point is, that rack grade barrel never shot better than that. The stainless barrel was shooting as well as the rack grade barrel was ever capable of, way past what most would consider it's prime. And that barrel was abused. In other words, with proper care you can get many thousands of rounds through most stainless barrels before many notice accuracy degradation. |
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Posted: 11/26/2015 5:37:52 PM EDT
[#9]
About 10 years ago I bought RRA varmint gun with a 24" stainless bull barrel. That gun has treated me well for the last 10 years. I could run factory ammo, berger reloads, or hornady 55 fmj and the gun always shot sub moa. With berger bullets it easily shot 1/2 groups all day. This rifle has always been my go to for varmints, coyotes, and paper. This time last year I noticed the groups starting to open up a bit but still good enough for me. By the end of this year my go to load is currently shooting about a 2 inch group. That is unacceptable for gophers here in montana.
At current count that barrel has seen right at 10000 rounds.. Take it for what its worth, Just my experience. I ordered a new 18" stainless varmint barrel from RRA yesterday to replace the old 24".......  Hopefully the reports I have read hold true. There is a horrible gopher problem up here.
Edit to add... I bought a new trigger also..The old trigger isnt as crisp on the second stage as it once was |
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Posted: 11/26/2015 6:44:04 PM EDT
[#10]
IIRC highpower shooters using M1As or AR15s generally swap barrels at 4000 rounds or when they start getting weird fliers at 600 yards, whichever comes first. I was never good enough to notice.
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Posted: 11/26/2015 7:17:41 PM EDT
[#11]
I've had 2 WOAs that couldn't hold a consistent 4MOA group once they hit 7K or so. I used those barrels for everything - bench shooting, 3-gun, carbine classes, etc.
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Posted: 11/26/2015 7:47:48 PM EDT
[#12]
Wasn't Krieger and Walther that tested both their Chrome Molly and their SS match grade barrels to the point of lost of accuracy, both companies used the same ammo and cleaning techniques in each barrel. Both ended up with the same results, CM and SS barrels wear out at the same rate or close enough that statistically they wear out the same.
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Posted: 11/26/2015 9:13:40 PM EDT
[#13]
Does anyone make a cold hammer forged stainless barrel for AR's? How would that hold up compared to a button rifled barrel?
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Posted: 11/26/2015 9:28:38 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Does anyone make a cold hammer forged stainless barrel for AR's? How would that hold up compared to a button rifled barrel? PSA.... 18" CHF Stainless Steel |
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Posted: 11/26/2015 9:35:00 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Does anyone make a cold hammer forged stainless barrel for AR's? How would that hold up compared to a button rifled barrel? Pretty sure fn is making them for psa....... Im on my phone or id find you a link |
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Posted: 11/27/2015 12:06:00 AM EDT
[#16]
I pulled my stainless Douglas barrel at just under 4K from my precision rig. It would shoot sub-MOA at 100 yards, and in fact still does. However at distance it could not hold that accuracy. At 500 yards, it could not maintain a 1.5 MOA vertical spread, with some shots being pretty far off. I now use it as a short range practice rig as it is still accurate at 100 yards. Diet had been a healthy diet of 69 SMK and hot 8208.
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Posted: 11/27/2015 1:22:37 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I pulled my stainless Douglas barrel at just under 4K from my precision rig. It would shoot sub-MOA at 100 yards, and in fact still does. However at distance it could not hold that accuracy. At 500 yards, it could not maintain a 1.5 MOA vertical spread, with some shots being pretty far off. I now use it as a short range practice rig as it is still accurate at 100 yards. Diet had been a healthy diet of 69 SMK and hot 8208. What was it shooting at 500 yards before? |
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Posted: 11/27/2015 2:03:36 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Does anyone make a cold hammer forged stainless barrel for AR's? How would that hold up compared to a button rifled barrel? DD's "MK12" barrel is stainless CHF. |
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Posted: 11/30/2015 11:23:43 AM EDT
[#19]
I'm interested in this topic myself as I'm looking at an AR with a Lothar Walther stainless match barrel, but want to make sure it's the right choice before plinking down the money for it. Great info so far so keep it coming.
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Posted: 11/30/2015 11:49:17 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What was it shooting at 500 yards before? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I pulled my stainless Douglas barrel at just under 4K from my precision rig. It would shoot sub-MOA at 100 yards, and in fact still does. However at distance it could not hold that accuracy. At 500 yards, it could not maintain a 1.5 MOA vertical spread, with some shots being pretty far off. I now use it as a short range practice rig as it is still accurate at 100 yards. Diet had been a healthy diet of 69 SMK and hot 8208. What was it shooting at 500 yards before? Nothing spectacular. MOA or slightly more. Didn't get the random flyers though. Misses by 10+ inches on a calm day made me pull the barrel. |
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Posted: 11/30/2015 12:01:55 PM EDT
[#21]
hunter101...did you order the new gas tube and handguard to go along with it?
The 24" uses rifle length, while the 18" uses mid-length. Thanks. Steve/RRA |
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Posted: 11/30/2015 4:21:58 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Where do you get these numbers? No just no.... your data is incorrect and unsupported. On that note not all SS barrels are created equally and not all wear the same. So many factors come into play in wearing out a barrel. If you are shooting nothing but super hot high velocity loads it will wear faster. If you do lots of mag dumps constantly heating the barrel up to high temp it will wear faster. Full auto fire will wear it faster. A reasonable shooter who bench shoots could go many many years before they even begin to see accuracy drop offs 10-15K+. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
OP, if you are looking for sub to1MOA accuracy out of a stainless barrel look to change it every 4-5K rounds... If you are looking at 2-4K MOA you can probably say 10-12K rounds is the point that kind of MOA is going to degrade. But by that time the amount of $ in ammo you've spent a new barrel is just a drop in the bucket. With a bench/table vice, upper receiver blox worx from Spikes, barrel wrench and torque wrench you can de-install the old and install the new barrel in 20-25 minutes... Where do you get these numbers? No just no.... your data is incorrect and unsupported. On that note not all SS barrels are created equally and not all wear the same. So many factors come into play in wearing out a barrel. If you are shooting nothing but super hot high velocity loads it will wear faster. If you do lots of mag dumps constantly heating the barrel up to high temp it will wear faster. Full auto fire will wear it faster. A reasonable shooter who bench shoots could go many many years before they even begin to see accuracy drop offs 10-15K+. this |
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Posted: 12/1/2015 3:57:23 PM EDT
[#23]
How often are you guys cleaning your stainless barrels and how are you doing it? If you say some fall off in accuracy, did using copper/powder solvent bring it back?
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Posted: 12/1/2015 4:19:55 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How often are you guys cleaning your stainless barrels and how are you doing it? If you say some fall off in accuracy, did using copper/powder solvent bring it back? I have found using copper remover hurts my accuracy or causes shifts on my dope sheets until I shoot it and get the copper filled back in. Cleaning copper out of the barrel is a waste of time and pointless as it will only fill to a point and stays steady. Once you clean it the moment you start shooting again it comes right back. It is about as pointless as cleaning the carbon out of the gas tube. |
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Posted: 12/1/2015 5:01:28 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have found using copper remover hurts my accuracy or causes shifts on my dope sheets until I shoot it and get the copper filled back in. Cleaning copper out of the barrel is a waste of time and pointless as it will only fill to a point and stays steady. Once you clean it the moment you start shooting again it comes right back. It is about as pointless as cleaning the carbon out of the gas tube. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
How often are you guys cleaning your stainless barrels and how are you doing it? If you say some fall off in accuracy, did using copper/powder solvent bring it back? I have found using copper remover hurts my accuracy or causes shifts on my dope sheets until I shoot it and get the copper filled back in. Cleaning copper out of the barrel is a waste of time and pointless as it will only fill to a point and stays steady. Once you clean it the moment you start shooting again it comes right back. It is about as pointless as cleaning the carbon out of the gas tube. Interesting. I've never thought of it like that, but it makes perfect sense. You can only remove so much, which would leave low and high spots of copper in the rifling. |
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Posted: 12/1/2015 5:13:23 PM EDT
[#26]
This is a good question for Jerry or Lena Miculek. I'm curious how much accuracy degradation they find acceptable.
They're not shooting bench rest but they do shoot matches with rifle shots 500-600 yards. |
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Posted: 12/1/2015 5:33:22 PM EDT
[#27]
I have a Sabre Defense SS 16" midlength that I started using in 2008. It has been used in the field hunting varmints, a couple dozen 3-gun matches, and for a lot of fun times plinking and target practice. No exact round counts but I just finished a box of 6000 Hornady 55 FMJ bullets and have shot 500 68 BTHP bullets through it as well as a couple hundred Hornday 53 V-Max, and odds and ends of other stuff.
This barrel has been cleaned twice since I bought it. I see no signs of accuracy changing nor any gas port erosion. |
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Posted: 12/1/2015 5:39:01 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Interesting. I've never thought of it like that, but it makes perfect sense. You can only remove so much, which would leave low and high spots of copper in the rifling. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
How often are you guys cleaning your stainless barrels and how are you doing it? If you say some fall off in accuracy, did using copper/powder solvent bring it back? I have found using copper remover hurts my accuracy or causes shifts on my dope sheets until I shoot it and get the copper filled back in. Cleaning copper out of the barrel is a waste of time and pointless as it will only fill to a point and stays steady. Once you clean it the moment you start shooting again it comes right back. It is about as pointless as cleaning the carbon out of the gas tube. Interesting. I've never thought of it like that, but it makes perfect sense. You can only remove so much, which would leave low and high spots of copper in the rifling. I always noticed after I ran copper cleaner my dope sheets on my rifles would be off. So I would change them and the more I shot them they would return back to the same as the old dope sheet before I cleaned the copper fouling. Then I took a precision rifle course and I asked the instructors what they thought about my experience and they explained to me that removing the copper will cause shifts till the copper returns. I have not ran copper cleaner in 6-7 years since. It is insanely frustrating when you develop a good dope on a rifle then it changes. |
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Posted: 12/1/2015 5:48:28 PM EDT
[#29]
Returning to the issue of barrel life -- stainless vs. CM or CMV, there are so many variables that comparisons are very difficult.
One variable I've not heard discussed in this thread is the effect of high cycle rate on throat erosion. Heat is the number one enemy of barrel life, especially on a sub MOA barrel. Throat erosion is the principal cause of loss of sub-MOA accuracy, long before mechanical wear to the lands and grooves of the rifling from bullet friction. Rifles that are shot at bench in slow, short strings with time to cool between shots, or at least between five shot strings, will retain gilt-edged accuracy much longer than a barrel that is exposed to repeated mag dumps and other high rate of fire treatment. It is very, very difficult to compare barrel life unless the rifles are subject to the same use and that use happens to be the same use that you will have for your own rifle. |
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Posted: 12/1/2015 5:53:07 PM EDT
[#30]
http://criterionbarrels.com/barrels/ar-15/ar-15-hybrid
I've only had it at a 50 yard range, but my 16" Criterion chrome lined barrel is incredibly accurate with 75gr Hornady TAP and ASYM. I bought it hoping that chrome lined barrel with match accuracy will last longer than Stainless and CHF. 
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Posted: 12/1/2015 7:11:01 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Interesting. I've never thought of it like that, but it makes perfect sense. You can only remove so much, which would leave low and high spots of copper in the rifling. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: How often are you guys cleaning your stainless barrels and how are you doing it? If you say some fall off in accuracy, did using copper/powder solvent bring it back? I have found using copper remover hurts my accuracy or causes shifts on my dope sheets until I shoot it and get the copper filled back in. Cleaning copper out of the barrel is a waste of time and pointless as it will only fill to a point and stays steady. Once you clean it the moment you start shooting again it comes right back. It is about as pointless as cleaning the carbon out of the gas tube. Interesting. I've never thought of it like that, but it makes perfect sense. You can only remove so much, which would leave low and high spots of copper in the rifling. Anyhow, after that conversation, I pretty much decided that the best way to break-in a barrel is to shoot it. I only clean my LW barrel every 300-500 rounds or so, and it's a hammer. I don't go crazy either, just some patches soaked in Hoppe's #9, soak for 5-10 minutes or so, then tight patch with a J. Dewey brass jag and rod until they come out relatively clean. Seems to work well for me. YMMV. |
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Posted: 12/1/2015 7:19:39 PM EDT
[#32]
Wow, using Sweets 7.62 without a shot fired through. *smh*
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Posted: 12/1/2015 8:00:40 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I spoke with Woody from Lothar Walther at SHOT this year about this (cleaning and break-in), and he told me to be careful with solvents that have a high amount of ammonia. He told me a story about a guy that had a brand new barrel and claimed it was junk (wouldn't shoot worth crap). They asked him to send it in, and sure enough it was junk. Guy used some cleaner before even shooting a round, I can't remeber the name of it (Sweets?), and it bascially ruined the barrel due to a chemical reaction with the steel, if I'm remebering our conversation correctly. Anyhow, after that conversation, I pretty much decided that the best way to break-in a barrel is to shoot it. I only clean my LW barrel every 300-500 rounds or so, and it's a hammer. I don't go crazy either, just some patches soaked in Hoppe's #9, soak for 5-10 minutes or so, then tight patch with a J. Dewey brass jag and rod until they come out relatively clean. Seems to work well for me. YMMV. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
How often are you guys cleaning your stainless barrels and how are you doing it? If you say some fall off in accuracy, did using copper/powder solvent bring it back? I have found using copper remover hurts my accuracy or causes shifts on my dope sheets until I shoot it and get the copper filled back in. Cleaning copper out of the barrel is a waste of time and pointless as it will only fill to a point and stays steady. Once you clean it the moment you start shooting again it comes right back. It is about as pointless as cleaning the carbon out of the gas tube. Interesting. I've never thought of it like that, but it makes perfect sense. You can only remove so much, which would leave low and high spots of copper in the rifling. Anyhow, after that conversation, I pretty much decided that the best way to break-in a barrel is to shoot it. I only clean my LW barrel every 300-500 rounds or so, and it's a hammer. I don't go crazy either, just some patches soaked in Hoppe's #9, soak for 5-10 minutes or so, then tight patch with a J. Dewey brass jag and rod until they come out relatively clean. Seems to work well for me. YMMV. Similar here. I don't even use actual gun cleaner anymore. Hell, I don't even really use my cleaning rod anymore. I just squirt some CLP in the bore and run my boresnake through it a couple times. Never had an issue. That's on my M4A1 clones though, I'm building a Mk12 currently and may treat that barrel differently as its for precision |
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Posted: 12/1/2015 9:51:46 PM EDT
[#34]
600 yard competition accuracy will begin to fade around 5000 rounds with top grade stainless steel barrels. Chrome lined barrels won't shoot as well at 600 yards 90% of the time when new.
All barrels will continue to perform very well inside 200 yards for at least 20,000 rounds. That's a lifetime of use for the vast majority of people reading this. I always buy stainless steel barrels because they shoot so well. The few chrome lined barrels I do own are used for rapid fire events fired at short range (inside 150 yards) that don't require fine accuracy. I don't care about abusing them with high heat because they are rack grade barrels (Colt and LMT). I always recommend stainless barrels for everyone except combat style tournaments or people who like to do magazine dumps. |
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Posted: 12/1/2015 10:19:21 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yeah. Missed the point. Point is, that rack grade barrel never shot better than that. The stainless barrel was shooting as well as the rack grade barrel was ever capable of, way past what most would consider it's prime. And that barrel was abused. In other words, with proper care you can get many thousands of rounds through most stainless barrels before many notice accuracy degradation. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I've heard that stainless steel barrels are very accurate buy the life expectancy of the barrel is less. How much less are we talking? Anyone here have high round count SS barrels that are still plenty accurate? ADCO did a test years ago, and that SS barrel had north of 14K rounds, with full auto fire included (really heating it up), and it was still shooting minute of man, IIRC. I'll see if I can find the link. ETA: Link: http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_2_130/158390_My_18_month__15K_rounds_SS_barrel_range_report_.html People usually buy stainless barrels for 1 MOA groups, not minute of man at 300 meters. An off the rack military issue M4 will do that at almost double the round count. Yeah. Missed the point. Point is, that rack grade barrel never shot better than that. The stainless barrel was shooting as well as the rack grade barrel was ever capable of, way past what most would consider it's prime. And that barrel was abused. In other words, with proper care you can get many thousands of rounds through most stainless barrels before many notice accuracy degradation. I get that. It starts more accurate, then degrades to about the same over time. But if you're ok with that sort of accuracy, why spend more on a stainless one to begin with? And once it hits the same accuracy at just 14,000 rounds how much more will it degrade at 20k or 25k? Or 30k? I'm not talking about a 4140 or even 4150 barrel, but a correct chrome moly vanadium (there is no such thing as a 4150 CMV by the way, the addition of vanadium makes it a completely different steel) with chrome lining. |
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Posted: 12/1/2015 11:29:43 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I get that. It starts more accurate, then degrades to about the same over time. But if you're ok with that sort of accuracy, why spend more on a stainless one to begin with? And once it hits the same accuracy at just 14,000 rounds how much more will it degrade at 20k or 25k? Or 30k? I'm not talking about a 4140 or even 4150 barrel, but a correct chrome moly vanadium (there is no such thing as a 4150 CMV by the way, the addition of vanadium makes it a completely different steel) with chrome lining. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I've heard that stainless steel barrels are very accurate buy the life expectancy of the barrel is less. How much less are we talking? Anyone here have high round count SS barrels that are still plenty accurate? ADCO did a test years ago, and that SS barrel had north of 14K rounds, with full auto fire included (really heating it up), and it was still shooting minute of man, IIRC. I'll see if I can find the link. ETA: Link: http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_2_130/158390_My_18_month__15K_rounds_SS_barrel_range_report_.html People usually buy stainless barrels for 1 MOA groups, not minute of man at 300 meters. An off the rack military issue M4 will do that at almost double the round count. Yeah. Missed the point. Point is, that rack grade barrel never shot better than that. The stainless barrel was shooting as well as the rack grade barrel was ever capable of, way past what most would consider it's prime. And that barrel was abused. In other words, with proper care you can get many thousands of rounds through most stainless barrels before many notice accuracy degradation. I get that. It starts more accurate, then degrades to about the same over time. But if you're ok with that sort of accuracy, why spend more on a stainless one to begin with? And once it hits the same accuracy at just 14,000 rounds how much more will it degrade at 20k or 25k? Or 30k? I'm not talking about a 4140 or even 4150 barrel, but a correct chrome moly vanadium (there is no such thing as a 4150 CMV by the way, the addition of vanadium makes it a completely different steel) with chrome lining. At "just" 14,000?? At 14k I wont give a shit, as that's multiple thousands of dollars in ammo and I will have been so thrilled by the stellar accuracy of said stainless barrel that I will probably be ordering another. I guess I don't get your point. Decent stainless barrels are often as cheap or cheaper than regular ole' mil-spec. But, if it makes you feel better, I'm using an FN barrel myself.
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Posted: 12/2/2015 12:31:32 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I get that. It starts more accurate, then degrades to about the same over time. But if you're ok with that sort of accuracy, why spend more on a stainless one to begin with? And once it hits the same accuracy at just 14,000 rounds how much more will it degrade at 20k or 25k? Or 30k? I'm not talking about a 4140 or even 4150 barrel, but a correct chrome moly vanadium (there is no such thing as a 4150 CMV by the way, the addition of vanadium makes it a completely different steel) with chrome lining. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I've heard that stainless steel barrels are very accurate buy the life expectancy of the barrel is less. How much less are we talking? Anyone here have high round count SS barrels that are still plenty accurate? ADCO did a test years ago, and that SS barrel had north of 14K rounds, with full auto fire included (really heating it up), and it was still shooting minute of man, IIRC. I'll see if I can find the link. ETA: Link: http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_2_130/158390_My_18_month__15K_rounds_SS_barrel_range_report_.html People usually buy stainless barrels for 1 MOA groups, not minute of man at 300 meters. An off the rack military issue M4 will do that at almost double the round count. Yeah. Missed the point. Point is, that rack grade barrel never shot better than that. The stainless barrel was shooting as well as the rack grade barrel was ever capable of, way past what most would consider it's prime. And that barrel was abused. In other words, with proper care you can get many thousands of rounds through most stainless barrels before many notice accuracy degradation. I get that. It starts more accurate, then degrades to about the same over time. But if you're ok with that sort of accuracy, why spend more on a stainless one to begin with? And once it hits the same accuracy at just 14,000 rounds how much more will it degrade at 20k or 25k? Or 30k? I'm not talking about a 4140 or even 4150 barrel, but a correct chrome moly vanadium (there is no such thing as a 4150 CMV by the way, the addition of vanadium makes it a completely different steel) with chrome lining. You need to tell all the manufacturers to stop using 4150 CMV in their published specs and marketing materials, then. Complete rifles, barrel manufacturers and vendors. All or most of them. That train left the station. If you look at milspec MIL B-11595E (MR) and amendment (AR) you will see in both that the barrel steel composition identified in Table 1 is described as "4150 Chrome-Moly-Vanadium". |
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Posted: 12/2/2015 9:59:37 AM EDT
[#38]
An unlined moly barrel and a stainless barrel will typically have approximately the same "life", everything else being equal.
What we do see is a gradual loss of accuracy with the moly, while the stainless will tend to maintain the accuracy for a longer round count, and then it will be gone. Steve/RRA |
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Posted: 12/2/2015 12:24:48 PM EDT
[#39]
Given the heat properties of carbon fiber, I'm curious how a Proof Research barrel compares to an all stainless barrel in lifespan.
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