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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 8/14/2005 4:36:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/14/2005 5:05:13 PM EDT by C-4]
My parents are originally from Hungary and I've always been intrigued by Soviet block firearms. I recently purchased a CZ-52 pistol and have done some reading about it. I've come across a lot of threads that tout its soft body armor piercing capability but I would like to see what others have to say about this.

What I've found seems rather underwhelming for 85gr. FMJ lead-core ammo, although I didn't buy the pistol so I could shoot criminals wearing level IIA vests. That's what AR's are for.

The following is what I've found on the internet (big qualification) and I'm simply interested in people's comments about it:

1) According to Body Armor #1:

Level III-A
(24-28 Layers of Kevlar)

Caliber-----------Bullet Weight (Grains)---Bullet Type-----Barrel (Inches)----Velocity (Feet/Second)
7.62x25 Tokarev-----------86---------------------AP-----------------?---------------------------1440

This does back up the body armor piercing capability, but since AP ammo is not legally available in the U.S. in handgun calibers it is a moot point.

2) According to Body Armor #2,

Level II
(20-24 Layers of Kevlar)

Caliber--------Bullet Weight (Grains)----Bullet Type----Barrel (Inches)------Velocity (Feet/Second)
7.62X25--------------------85gr.----------------VSP FMJ----------24------------------------------1250

I'm not sure where they got the 24" barrel. Since it is a British site I thought maybe it is in cm, but it clearly shows that it is in inches. I don't know of any rifles that shoot the 7.62X25mm cartridge, but I'm sure there are some. I thought maybe the CZ/VZ-52 but according to this it is chambered in either 7.62 x 45mm M52 cartridge or 7.62 x 39 mm M43.

The submachine guns chambered in 7.62X25mm have much shorter barrels. An example is the Klin-2:



Klin-2


The Klin-2 was designed by Victor kalashnikov and Alexey Dragunov, the sons of the two most notable Russian smallarms designers. The weapon utilizes a modified version of the AK-108s balanced recoil system which is reported to make the high rate of fire very controlable. 7.62x25mm is best known for it's use in the TT-33 Tokarev, but was chosen for the Kiln-2 because the terminal ballistics and armor penetration are superior to the 9x18mm and 9x19mm.



3) According to Body Armor #3:

Level III-A+ (not sure what the "+" means)
(24-28 Layers of Kevlar)

Caliber-----------Bullet Weight (Grains)---Bullet Type-----Barrel (Inches)----Velocity (Feet/Second)
7.62x25 Tokarev--------------?---------------'steel jacket'----------?----------------------1443 (440m/s)

I'm not sure if they truly mean a copper gilding steel jacket or steel-core (AP), but I'm guessing the former.

There are other sites that give even more incomplete descriptions such as only describing the bullet as '7.62X25 Tokarev'.

Comments?

Edited to fix tables.

Link Posted: 8/17/2005 6:37:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/18/2005 5:35:14 PM EDT by C-4]
Anyone? Not even a smart-ass comment.

Link Posted: 8/18/2005 5:35:00 PM EDT
One more bump for good luck.
Link Posted: 8/18/2005 6:19:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/18/2005 6:20:13 PM EDT by Special-K]
Q: What did the Donkey say to the Elephant?

A: You know, Bill Clinton really was a traitorous asshole.


That's a smart-ass comment.


As to your question, I really don't know, so BUMP.

-K
Link Posted: 8/18/2005 6:59:05 PM EDT
The 7.62x25 is a fast moving cartridge. Velocity is the key to penetration. The Communist Chinese made a Sten type submachine gun that used the 7.62x25. The Soviet Union used the PPSH rifle in WWII chambered for this round as well. I always wanted a PPSH, but those things are poor quality.

Most of the ammo I have shot with my CZ-52s are steel jacket with copper gilding. S&B is copper jacket completely, or so my memory serves. I have chronographed 85 grain bullets from 1250 FPS to OVER 1600 FPS (Chinese ammo). Stay away from Bulgarian 7.62x25: pressures are DANGEROUS. Currently, Romanian ammo is available, made in the 1970's and 1980's. Though I have never shot any of it, I have seen it, and looks good.

As for the CZ-52, it is a HIGH quality pistol, very well made, extremely accurate, and very under valued. For $275, one can buy the pistol and a 1000 rounds of ammo.

The CZ-52Pistol
Link Posted: 8/18/2005 7:49:48 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AtlantaFireman:
Most of the ammo I have shot with my CZ-52s are steel jacket with copper gilding. S&B is copper jacket completely, or so my memory serves. I have chronographed 85 grain bullets from 1250 FPS to OVER 1600 FPS (Chinese ammo). Stay away from Bulgarian 7.62x25: pressures are DANGEROUS. Currently, Romanian ammo is available, made in the 1970's and 1980's. Though I have never shot any of it, I have seen it, and looks good.

As for the CZ-52, it is a HIGH quality pistol, very well made, extremely accurate, and very under valued. For $275, one can buy the pistol and a 1000 rounds of ammo.

The CZ-52Pistol



The S&B doesn't stick to a magnet so you remembered correctly. Do you think that if velocity were the same ie. around 1600fps, a steel jacket (copper-steel-copper gilding) would outperform copper jacket only?

Also, do you know anything about this Yugo ammo?



7.62x25 Tokarev Yugoslavian 85Gr., Corrisive, 2100rds per Case
1952 thru 1957 manufacture. Berdan primed, Brass case. 70rds per box.
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