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9/19/2017 7:27:10 PM
Posted: 7/19/2003 9:25:08 AM EDT
Alright, if you couldn't have your AR-15 and you could have one of the other great 5.56 semi-auto rifles (the Sig 550, Steyr Aug, Galil, FN FNC, HK 93, HK G36, the Daiwoo, Mini-14 etc.) Which would you choose and why?

A great pipe dream that will never happen!
Link Posted: 7/19/2003 9:33:16 AM EDT
Sig all the way because it owns in counter strike! ok, yeah, just kidding. i hate that game. but i really would like a Sig 55x because ive heard better about them than any of the other weapons listed.
Link Posted: 7/19/2003 9:41:05 AM EDT
Steyr AUG, I used to have one back before the ban. Hands down the best weapon I ever owned.
Link Posted: 7/19/2003 9:53:59 AM EDT
The Aug is a nice choice. [img]http://photos.ar15.com/WS_Content/ImageGallery/Attachments/DownloadAttach.asp?sAccountUnq=4601&iGalleryUnq=701&iImageUnq=11212[/img] I'd like to get an HK53. Thats a SBR version of the 93, and a real 53 is FA to boot.
Link Posted: 7/19/2003 10:35:30 AM EDT
FNC it will take M16 mags.
Link Posted: 7/19/2003 10:41:10 AM EDT
Well the Sig is about the best one up there of course the G36 would give it a run for iot's money.I hate the AUG and the Mini14 is junk,I already have the HK93,the Daewoo is ok,but it would have to be the SDig 550 followed by the G36 as my choices.
Link Posted: 7/19/2003 12:36:21 PM EDT
I'd choose one of the Daiwoos for better ergonomics and still takes ar mags if they were still available.
Link Posted: 7/19/2003 5:28:29 PM EDT
I would like to have the G36 , but the civilian form is the uglyass SL-8 . No thanks .
Link Posted: 7/19/2003 5:36:27 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Redbone: I'd choose one of the Daiwoos for better ergonomics and still takes ar mags if they were still available.
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Second the motion. Plus, anyone trained on the AR15/M16 can familiarize himself w/the Daewoo in 5 minutes or less.
Link Posted: 7/19/2003 5:42:22 PM EDT
[img]http://photos.ar15.com/WS_Content/ImageGallery/Attachments/DownloadAttach.asp?sAccountUnq=24926&iGalleryUnq=235&iImageUnq=6150[/img]
Link Posted: 7/19/2003 5:47:02 PM EDT
AUG first. Rifle barrel length in an SMG size (sort of). G36 next. Very nice rifle with a number of optic choices.
Link Posted: 7/19/2003 6:22:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/19/2003 6:26:52 PM EDT by tivoli410]
Alright I'm a newbie to the G3 styled rifles and got some questions. What is the difference between the HK 93 and and HK 33? The only difference between the HK 93 and the G3 is caliber right? Also the Sig 550, is it just Sig's version of the HK 93? Same with the FNC, FN's version? The FN FAL is basically a G3...? Everyone makin the same thing??? How does the CETME figure in to it all? L1A1? Too many rifles!!!! Oh great, I just looked up the Daewoo K2, the reciever looks like an AR's but everything else looks like the above. TOO MUCH ! ! ! ! ! [rolleyes]
Link Posted: 7/19/2003 6:48:05 PM EDT
From what I've heard the SIG is based on the AK system for reliability, but its barrel and bolt make it the most accurate out of the box service rifle in production. Of course, us peasants have no real experience with such weapons and have to rely on reviews and hearsay.
Link Posted: 7/19/2003 8:00:05 PM EDT
I got a DAEWOO, but its broke... =( One day I will have it running, and so far it seems to be the best choice.
Link Posted: 7/19/2003 9:30:06 PM EDT
I currently either own or have owned all the rifles on the list except the Daewoo and G36 (unless a SL8 SW modified clone counts). I've also played around with the Valmet and Beretta AR70 which I didn't see listed. Personal order of preference, given current laws would be as follows (for all, parts availability is nowhere near as good and cheap as for the AR/M16): 1. SIG 550/551: Most accurate and smoothest .223 rifle I have ever owned. Self-regulating gas system will eat ammo that is underpowered for an AR, AUG, etc. yet with the regulated gas system, hot ammo feels the same as any other load. Clamp together mags are really neat, built in night sights and excellent iron sights overall. Machining is second to none (the flash-hider and chamber are all machined from one piece of steel). It will run for thousands of runs dry (in one shooting session) with no lubrication at all on any operating parts. Very clean gas system as well and adjustable. Negatives are cost (current market) and the tendency for group POI to change when using the bipod since the whole assembly is not free floated. Last part is not a problem with a 551 since there is no bipod. 2. Steyr AUG: Bullpup design is compact, design is modular and barrels can be changed in seconds. The A2 I have also allows for the use of a Picatinny rail and choice of optics. A 9mm kits turns it into a subgun that is shorter than a MP5a2 yet still has better ballistics with a full length 16" barrel. Mags are tough as nails (took one, chucked it in the freezer fully loaded for a day, took it out and slammed it against concrete and it did not break) and the mags also have greater clearance for longer bullets and COL. The cleanest of all guns listed. Ran 2000 rounds through the gun dry (no lube anywhere), lots of mags rapid fire, shooting from prone in dusty conditions and there was a decent amount of sand and dust in the gun but never failed. Will also eat a lot of out of spec ammo that will not work in an AR and gas system can also be adjusted as needed. Negatives are rarity of the A2 and the cost associated with it. Cannot be converted to LH use quickly which may or may not be a tactical issue for some. 9mm conversion does not have a LH option. Also, will not fire quickly after being underwater since the recoil rods fill with water and take a little time to drain. This is why the Australian SAS specified M4's. I have the most experience with the above 2 and actually prefer them to the AR/M16 series, but of course there are no transferrable class 3 550's or 551's out there which kinda sucks. Parts are more expensive and in the case of the 55X, not always available. Order of preference for the others would be: Beretta AR70, HK93, Galil, FNC, G36 clone, Valmet, Mini 14
Link Posted: 7/19/2003 9:33:13 PM EDT
Robinson M96?
Link Posted: 7/20/2003 7:20:33 AM EDT
Originally Posted By MBSL: I currently either own or have owned all the rifles on the list except the Daewoo and G36 (unless a SL8 SW modified clone counts). I've also played around with the Valmet and Beretta AR70 which I didn't see listed. Personal order of preference, given current laws would be as follows (for all, parts availability is nowhere near as good and cheap as for the AR/M16): 1. SIG 550/551: Most accurate and smoothest .223 rifle I have ever owned. Self-regulating gas system will eat ammo that is underpowered for an AR, AUG, etc. yet with the regulated gas system, hot ammo feels the same as any other load. Clamp together mags are really neat, built in night sights and excellent iron sights overall. Machining is second to none (the flash-hider and chamber are all machined from one piece of steel). It will run for thousands of runs dry (in one shooting session) with no lubrication at all on any operating parts. Very clean gas system as well and adjustable. Negatives are cost (current market) and the tendency for group POI to change when using the bipod since the whole assembly is not free floated. Last part is not a problem with a 551 since there is no bipod. 2. Steyr AUG: Bullpup design is compact, design is modular and barrels can be changed in seconds. The A2 I have also allows for the use of a Picatinny rail and choice of optics. A 9mm kits turns it into a subgun that is shorter than a MP5a2 yet still has better ballistics with a full length 16" barrel. Mags are tough as nails (took one, chucked it in the freezer fully loaded for a day, took it out and slammed it against concrete and it did not break) and the mags also have greater clearance for longer bullets and COL. The cleanest of all guns listed. Ran 2000 rounds through the gun dry (no lube anywhere), lots of mags rapid fire, shooting from prone in dusty conditions and there was a decent amount of sand and dust in the gun but never failed. Will also eat a lot of out of spec ammo that will not work in an AR and gas system can also be adjusted as needed. Negatives are rarity of the A2 and the cost associated with it. Cannot be converted to LH use quickly which may or may not be a tactical issue for some. 9mm conversion does not have a LH option. Also, will not fire quickly after being underwater since the recoil rods fill with water and take a little time to drain. This is why the Australian SAS specified M4's. I have the most experience with the above 2 and actually prefer them to the AR/M16 series, but of course there are no transferrable class 3 550's or 551's out there which kinda sucks. Parts are more expensive and in the case of the 55X, not always available. Order of preference for the others would be: Beretta AR70, HK93, Galil, FNC, G36 clone, Valmet, Mini 14
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Oh, BTW. YOU SUCK![:(!][:(]
Link Posted: 7/20/2003 7:33:22 AM EDT
The SIG 550 by far!!!!!!!
Link Posted: 7/20/2003 7:39:31 AM EDT
Great review of the Sig and Aug. I wish my Aug was an A2. That is my only complaint. The standard optic works well. But lacks precision at range. Combat only type sight. Wish I could mount an ACOG. My experience with the Aug (only 223 and no LH mod) is that it is very smooth, intuitive to aim and shoot, and reliable as hell. I have NEVER had a jam or any failure = yet (knock on wood). Still in all, even if I could have any parts version or whatever for any of the listed guns, I would choose an M4/M16 platform. The ergonomics just seem better even though there are "some" reliability shortfalls compared to the Aug or Sig. Just my opinion.
Link Posted: 7/20/2003 8:01:04 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Paul: Robinson M96?
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Paul, Once Alex and the crew get the safety located in an ergonomic position, they get a mag fence on the mag release and they get the manual bolt lock design implimented....I gotta tell ya the M96 will DEFINITLY be a contender. Despite it's current shortcomings it is still one hell of a weapon. I am just over three thousand rounds and have had only one malfunction caused by a 'not all that reliable' magazine. That was WELL over 2500 rounds ago. There was a guy on m96.org who hadn't cleaned his for about a thousand rounds and hadn't experienced a single stoppage so far. His goal was to fire it till it started to malfunction. I told him to just up the gas to the system and see how long it went after that. VERY cool gun.
Link Posted: 7/20/2003 9:06:51 AM EDT
I'd have to go with the AUG - bullpups rule!
Link Posted: 7/20/2003 9:31:08 AM EDT
If quick mag changes are not a issue for its intended use, i would use my AUG,it is balanced well for one handed use, and portability and length almost the same as my sub gun.
Link Posted: 7/20/2003 11:15:24 AM EDT
I would have to say the Sig 552. Only because it is actually a Swiss made AK. (With 30 round magazines of course.) The G36c would be my second choice. http://www.mtaonline.net/~stomper/AR15/g36c.jpg http://www.mtaonline.net/~stomper/AR15/sig552.jpg
Link Posted: 7/20/2003 1:19:11 PM EDT
Link Posted: 7/20/2003 1:55:01 PM EDT
FNC That gets my vote. I owned a CL 3 FNC at one time and all's I can say is it is one awsome piece of equipment. You get the reliability of any AK gas system with the added bonus that it is adjustable from normal to adverse, though I can't imagine ever having to put it on adverse, as the normal setting throws the brass a good way, but it is a nice option. The upper receiver is made of steel, it's sites are not all that different from an AR in adjustability and sight picture. The lower is high grade aluminum, it looks like it is actually machined from a billet. The controls and ergonomics and styling are classic FN aka FAL like. Mine even had the Para folding stock. All this and it was designed to use M16 magazines. What more could you want. It's only drawback if you could call it one, is that spare parts are hard to find, if you ever needed one. But I'd say the other rifles on this list suffer from the same fate. I fired a few thousand rounds through mine full auto and NEVER broke anything. If it would have been imported for a longer period of time I'd say it would have definately grown in popularity, but alas, most people know very little about this fine weapon. Wpns Man
Link Posted: 7/20/2003 3:21:04 PM EDT
FN FNC or the AR-70
Link Posted: 7/20/2003 6:11:08 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/20/2003 6:12:15 PM EDT by JayCeeNC]
Steyr AUG. I bought one for $600 in 1988, sold it in 1994 for $2500, after I'd put 16,000 rounds thru it. I shot mostly 3-Gun matches, including the Soldier Of Fortune Match in Las Vegas, where I won 2 stages with it, including a sniper stage. I like the balance, great for runnin' and gunnin' while holding it in the strong hand. I used the standard "doughnut" sight, the crosshair reticle, and the circle/dot reticle. The circle/dot reminds me of the EOTech reticle. With practice, mag changes are pretty quick, just reach back with your support hand and trip the mag release while you're reaching for the next mag. Only problem I had with it was weak operating springs, which caused double-feeding until I replaced them, at about 10,000 rounds. But even before I replaced them, I could open the gas port up to a larger setting and it would still operate. One of the reasons I sold it was that there was marked erosion in the first inch forward of the chamber...I guess 16,000 pretty fast rounds too their toll! Sloppy trigger, but I could still do 5-6" groups at 300 yards with Fed. Match from prone on a sandbag. --------------------- JayCeeNC
Link Posted: 7/20/2003 6:31:42 PM EDT
Although I've never shot one,handled one or even seen one at the range I'd go with a SIG.
Link Posted: 7/20/2003 6:37:40 PM EDT
1.)SIG 550/551/552commando. 2.)HK G36. 3.)GALIL AR I like the SteyrAUG. Just don't like shooting it. Ther trigger squishy, The permanet 4X dot is a loss in versatility/slow in close quarters and the worst is the feeling of the round(bullpup) going off right under your chin. Imagine what a Kboom would do to the side of your grill?
Link Posted: 7/20/2003 8:01:57 PM EDT
I rate based on the weapons that I actually handle and shoot. 1. HK91 2. HK93 3. Galil 4. FNC Have never shoot Sig55X or Steyr Aug, so no comment.
Link Posted: 7/20/2003 8:37:13 PM EDT
One thing to be aware of on the SIG 552 is that the gas operating system is different from the 550 and 551. Because of the shorter length, the piston is redesigned and the recoil spring is in the back kind of like an AK, and it has a retaining plate ala FNC. From what I have heard, the 552 doesn't feel nearly as smooth as the 550 and 551. I've never had a chance to shoot a 552 next to my 550 so I am going by what some LE folks who have handled all 3 side by side have told me.
Link Posted: 7/20/2003 11:49:16 PM EDT
Alrighty, some good responses. Let me clarify a few things; the list wasn't exclusive, note that I said "etc." There are other rifles you could list; South African R-4/R-5, IMI Galil, Valmet, various AK's chambered for 5.56, Beretta AR-70, Armalite AR-180, Ruger AC-556, Kel-Tec, etc., etc., Apparently it looks like the Sig 550 series is the winner. I've never fired one but have heard much about it. Same with the HK G36 series and Steyr Aug. All in all though, none of them beat the M-16 as far as human engineering. The M-16 is the fastest reloading rifle made, that bolt release and magazine release is just perfectly "there". Any of the paddle type releases are inherently slow but aid in magazine retention which is something of an enigma in American firearm training, though important because magazines will be scarce. I personally like the HK-41E, it was an export version of the HK 33; blow back, 5.56mm, accepted M-16 mags, polygonal barrel, accepted all the HK series accessories. It was nice but long since out of production. I like the HK delayed blow back system for nothing if not reliability and simplicity. The charging handle is perfectly "there" like the MP-5. I think it even had an M-16 type bolt catch. I'm surprised the system was never accepted. Thanks
Link Posted: 7/21/2003 12:17:13 AM EDT
Sig, of course. Then the G36.
Link Posted: 7/21/2003 1:58:55 AM EDT
G36, HANDS DOWN!!!! [IMG]http://www.thermaldynamics.com/pictures/area51/G36C-K.jpg[/IMG]
Link Posted: 7/21/2003 2:03:14 AM EDT
Damn larry im so jealous!!I love the G36
Link Posted: 7/21/2003 5:31:57 AM EDT
Originally Posted By LARRYG36: G36, HANDS DOWN!!!! [IMG]http://www.thermaldynamics.com/pictures/area51/G36C-K.jpg[/IMG]
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Ditto!
Link Posted: 7/21/2003 5:56:09 AM EDT
I hate G36 but I LOVE G36K.
Link Posted: 7/21/2003 6:34:38 AM EDT
Link Posted: 7/21/2003 7:54:34 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/21/2003 7:55:50 AM EDT by SMGLee]
The G36 is nice, but the SIG SG551 is even nicer. I would not mind owning either or both if that is ever possible. I have an AUG, I have several M4s, and I have owned FNC para(My first gun), HK93(which I think is way over rated), and a SIG SG551(A gift) Never own a Galil but shoot a bunch of them include the micro Galil. all the guns mentioned in your post are good guns and I won't feel out gunned with any of them, but my favorite has to be the good ole' M4, with G36 and SIG in close second maybe the third given to the AUG(cool factor way high) and rest is just cake frosting.
Link Posted: 7/21/2003 8:13:22 AM EDT
Had dinner this weekend with a career IDF soldier taking a class here. We got to talking about weapons, and he raved about the Tavor. The upper can be changed as easy as an M4, from a long bbl, short bbl or 9mm SMG. So far he says the operators in the field are very happy with them. His preference is the Negev with box. In the para version it has had very good results against some very heavily armed bad guys armed with AKs. He says the Negev out preforms the MG249. I'm taking him to the range to try out my FA stuff, and he promises to recipricate if I'm ever on hs turf. I think it may be worth the trip!
Link Posted: 7/21/2003 8:33:08 PM EDT
I've shot a 93, FNC, G36, Aug, Mini-14 and a M4. None of them compare to my SG550. This weapon has the smoothest action, the best ergonomics, and the smoothest trigger I've ever felt. If I couldn't have this rifle, my next choice would be the G36 followed by the M4. The trigger pull on the Aug sucks, and I can't get a comfortable shooting position. The 93 is too heavy and has no last round bolt hold feature. The FNC simply weighs a ton. And the Mini-14...well. It's inaccurate as hell. Here's my baby. [img]http://photos.ar15.com/WS_Content/ImageGallery/Attachments/DownloadAttach.asp?sAccountUnq=10569&iGalleryUnq=62&iImageUnq=1261[/img]
Link Posted: 7/21/2003 8:49:13 PM EDT
One of the advantages of M16/M4 I see over SIG 550/551 is the weight. SIG 550 = 9 lbs (20.8" barrel) SIG 551 = 7.5 lbs (14.3" barrel)
Link Posted: 7/26/2003 7:01:27 AM EDT
My 5.56 NATO list would be as follows: 1: SIG 2: Mk12 Mod 1 (ok, you said no Ar15 so you can simply overlook this one) 3: Mk46 4: HK G36C I already own a SIG 551 SWAT so my next will probably be a Mk12 Mod 1. [img]http://photos.ar15.com/ImageGallery/Attachments/DownloadAttach.asp?iImageUnq=15250[/img] [img]http://photos.ar15.com/ImageGallery/Attachments/DownloadAttach.asp?iImageUnq=15257[/img]
Link Posted: 8/17/2003 7:19:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/17/2003 7:24:57 PM EDT by KeithBuckner]
I JUST finished converting my last 551-LB (Long Barrel) barrel to 551-"KB". This is as close to a 551-SWAT as a civvie can get in a "Non-SBR State (Alabama)" in the Good ole' US of A! OAL is 16.25" [img]http://alpinetek.netfirms.com/guns/SG55X/551KB.jpg[/img] MY choices/reasons would be: SG551 - It's just plain SWEEEEET ! G36K - It's almost as SWEEEET as the SIG ! M4 - Hey.. it's just too cheap to NOT own ! And THOSE are exactly the mouse guns I own (or AS CLOSE to such as is permitted for a lowly subject, such as I).
Link Posted: 8/17/2003 10:02:24 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/17/2003 10:03:26 PM EDT by squeezecockerp7m8]
I would go with the Famas just to be different. Seriously though, the Famas is very reliable and durable design. It is basically what the SA80 should have been...unfortunately if it was ever used by its home country to defend the native soil it would be dropped as soon as the first round was fired. It would most likely survive the drop and would serve the German reserve units nicely.
Link Posted: 8/18/2003 1:15:44 AM EDT
FAMAS? no. I read in Janes that the FAMAS is designed for an underpowered 5.56mm round. As far as bullpups go. I've always wanted an AUG. Great balance, but have never had the opportunity to fire one. For a modern bullpup, i'd go with FN's new F2000. It has a removable optic to you can attach what you want. Uses M16 mags too. The F2000 is ambidextrious with out a need to change or alter the bolt. My 5.56mm list 1. G36 2. F2000 3. Sig 550 (551 and 552 have too short of a barrel for the 5.56mm round) 4. AUG 5. Galil
Link Posted: 8/20/2003 7:35:38 PM EDT
That's a scary thought but a sig 550 would work in a pinch.
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