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Posted: 4/30/2022 5:20:42 PM EDT
I bought my first AR a couple months  ago.  Went with the saint Victor.  I love it except for the fact that it doesn’t like my federal 5.56 ammo.  It stove pipes, and doesn’t run reliably.  Ran some winchester .223 and it went flawlessly. Even Winchester 5.56 runs close to flawlessly.  I’m ejecting around 1:30… I got a h2 buffer hoping that would help, it didn’t.  Now I have a SA adj. gas block coming because I don’t know what else to do!  My gas block is pinned on my rifle so I hate changing it as I’m not going to be able to pin my new block I don’t think…. I’ll dimple my barrel but drilling the block is a whole other monster.  Am I going about this the right way?  Sometimes I literally have to rip the rounds out of the bolt bc they are stuck in there so hard.  Could this all be because it’s overgassed?  I’m thinking so; just looking for others with more experiences input.  Even the brass getting stuck I feel could be from the over gas, as it could be ripping it out of the chamber while it’s still expanded and marking up the back where the extractor grabs it. Im pretty frustrated with this rifle. If I would have needed more then 5-6 rounds to save my life, I’d be a dead man….  Thank you for any input!
Link Posted: 4/30/2022 5:27:53 PM EDT
[#1]
It's still ejecting at 1:30 with the H2 buffer?

You can try going with an even heavier buffer and an extra power recoil spring. You should be able to find a heavy enough buffer to slow the bolt speed to get normal 4 o'clock ejection.

ETA: what do you mean exactly by "rip rounds out of the bolt"? the cases are getting stuck to the bolt face under the extractor and not ejecting?
Link Posted: 4/30/2022 5:33:36 PM EDT
[#2]
Link Posted: 4/30/2022 7:49:09 PM EDT
[#3]
Yeah, BRT EZ Tune gas tube man.
Link Posted: 4/30/2022 9:05:44 PM EDT
[#4]
Quoted:
I bought my first AR a couple months  ago.  Went with the saint Victor.  I love it except for the fact that it doesn’t like my federal 5.56 ammo.  It stove pipes, and doesn’t run reliably.  Ran some winchester .223 and it went flawlessly. Even Winchester 5.56 runs close to flawlessly.  I’m ejecting around 1:30… I got a h2 buffer hoping that would help, it didn’t.  Now I have a SA adj. gas block coming because I don’t know what else to do!  My gas block is pinned on my rifle so I hate changing it as I’m not going to be able to pin my new block I don’t think…. I’ll dimple my barrel but drilling the block is a whole other monster.  Am I going about this the right way?  Sometimes I literally have to rip the rounds out of the bolt bc they are stuck in there so hard.  Could this all be because it’s overgassed?  I’m thinking so; just looking for others with more experiences input.  Even the brass getting stuck I feel could be from the over gas, as it could be ripping it out of the chamber while it’s still expanded and marking up the back where the extractor grabs it. Im pretty frustrated with this rifle. If I would have needed more then 5-6 rounds to save my life, I’d be a dead man….  Thank you for any input!
View Quote


Did you contact Springfield? There should be a warranty on it and they should fix any problems.
Link Posted: 4/30/2022 9:35:58 PM EDT
[#5]
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Quoted:


Did you contact Springfield? There should be a warranty on it and they should fix any problems.
View Quote

This^^^

Instead of trying to diagnose and troubleshoot the issue yourself, why not let someone do it who does that kind of thing for a living?  You paid for the warranty when you bought the gun, might as well take advantage of it.
Link Posted: 4/30/2022 9:50:03 PM EDT
[#6]
I agree with the prior responses - call Springfield and send them the rifle for repair.
I would still use the SA gas block, tho.
More than likely, it will still come back somewhat over gassed.
I have two and they work flawlessly.
Just line it up, use red loctite on the screws and you’re good to go.
Link Posted: 5/1/2022 1:00:31 AM EDT
[#7]
I would let Springfield sort it out. Their CS is really good. I sent an M1A back for what amounted to a slightly oversized mag catch. They paid shipping both ways and rather than replace the defective part they replaced the entire trigger group and the issue was resolved.
Link Posted: 5/1/2022 6:53:08 AM EDT
[#8]
Yes, it was ejecting at 1:30 with the H2.  I didn’t really check with myH buffer but i was finding rounds infront of my shooting bench.   And by ripping,  I mean I really have to try to get them out.  Maybe from it recharging with the spent casing still in it at a 45 degree angle it’s wedging itself in the bolt even harder, but when I get a problem and I lock my bolt back and have a casing stuck in it, it’s not real easy to get it out.
Link Posted: 5/1/2022 6:56:51 AM EDT
[#9]
I knoowwww.  I read horror stories about Springfield’s customer service department and people going through the hassle of sending their gun back 3-4 times.  I only have about $130 into “fixing” the issue so far.  And worst case is I have an adjustable gas block on my gun now.  Although it came with a real nice pinned low profile.   But you’re all right about should have had Springfield at least try to sort it out first.   I just hated the thought of sending my new rifle back.
Link Posted: 5/1/2022 10:47:27 AM EDT
[#10]
I wouldn't send it back, or use an AGB, I would use the BRT tube, and be done with it.
Link Posted: 5/1/2022 11:55:48 AM EDT
[#11]
That's a nice rifle, send it back and let them make it right.
Link Posted: 5/1/2022 2:19:26 PM EDT
[#12]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
That's a nice rifle, send it back and let them make it right.
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Link Posted: 5/1/2022 3:27:59 PM EDT
[#13]
Yea I def would have gone that route if I knew they existed!  I checked the tubes out from BRT, I bet they would fix my problem.  I already ordered the AGB….
Link Posted: 5/1/2022 4:30:24 PM EDT
[#14]
How does the chamber look? Is the chamber surface smooth as it should be or do you see machining ribs/lines?
Link Posted: 5/1/2022 5:16:37 PM EDT
[#15]
Quoted:
I bought my first AR a couple months  ago.  Went with the saint Victor.  I love it except for the fact that it doesn’t like my federal 5.56 ammo.  It stove pipes, and doesn’t run reliably.  Ran some winchester .223 and it went flawlessly. Even Winchester 5.56 runs close to flawlessly.  I’m ejecting around 1:30… I got a h2 buffer hoping that would help, it didn’t.  Now I have a SA adj. gas block coming because I don’t know what else to do!  My gas block is pinned on my rifle so I hate changing it as I’m not going to be able to pin my new block I don’t think…. I’ll dimple my barrel but drilling the block is a whole other monster.  Am I going about this the right way?  Sometimes I literally have to rip the rounds out of the bolt bc they are stuck in there so hard.  Could this all be because it’s overgassed?  I’m thinking so; just looking for others with more experiences input.  Even the brass getting stuck I feel could be from the over gas, as it could be ripping it out of the chamber while it’s still expanded and marking up the back where the extractor grabs it. Im pretty frustrated with this rifle. If I would have needed more then 5-6 rounds to save my life, I’d be a dead man….  Thank you for any input!
View Quote

The best thing to do is to probably contact Springfield (the manufacturer) or a qualified gunsmith.

That being said...

Ejecting at 1:30? It sounds like short stroking to me. What was the factory buffer weight? Have you cleaned the BCG? Have you inspected the extractor?

See this NRA article: https://www.americanrifleman.org/content/the-ar-15-for-home-defense-reliability/

The author put this better than I could describe it:

American Rifleman- The AR-15 for Home Defense: Reliability
Most user-resolvable AR reliability issues center around four problems: failure to feed, failure to extract, short-stroking and failure to eject.

Failure to feed can result from a number of factors, among which are defective ammunition, a chamber that is excessively tight or dirty, insufficient headspace, poor-quality magazines, or magazines that sit too low in the magazine well.

A rough, dirty or carbon-fouled chamber may also lead to a failure to extract, but this issue is most often related to poor extractor tension, caused by a weak extractor spring. Extra-power springs or spring donuts can improve extractor functioning.

Short-stroking occurs when the bolt and carrier do not travel fully rearward upon firing. When this insufficient travel prevents the bolt from picking up the rim of the top cartridge in the magazine on its forward stroke, feeding issues result. Short-stroking can also prevent the fired case from being thrown fully out of the gun. Short-stroking may be associated with a failure to stagger the slots in the gas rings on the bolt, a broken, bent or plugged gas tube, or carbon or dirt in the carrier or upper receiver. Even going from a lighter to a heavier hammer spring may cause a marginally-functioning system to short-stroke.

Failure to eject a fired cartridge case may sometimes be linked to a malfunctioning ejector, blocked gas tube, or a dirty chamber. More commonly, however, both short-stroking and failure to eject are caused by a buffer or buffer spring that is too heavy. Normal A2 rifle buffers weigh 5.1 ozs., while shorter carbine buffers can run from 3.0 ozs. for a mil-spec standard unit to 3.8, 4.6 and 5.4 ozs. for Colt's H, H2 and H3 buffers, respectively. These heavier buffers were designed for use in M4 carbines that are overgassed or suppressed. An alternative to heavier buffers is David Tubb's Carrier Weight System, from Speedlock Systems. This consists of a steel or tungsten weight that fits inside the hole at the rear of the carrier, and adds 2.8 or 3.9 ozs., respectively, to the carrier.
[...]
The way an AR-15 ejects can be diagnostic. The proper ejection pattern can be imagined by visualizing a clock set above the gun, with the butt at 6 o'clock and the muzzle at 12 o'clock. Brass should come out at somewhere between 3 o'clock and 4:30. If cases exit before 3:00, that's a sign of short-stroking; brass is not clearing the ejection port before the bolt starts to slam home, and as a result are kicked forward out of the ejection port. With an overgassed gun, the brass leaves the gun much more to the rear, past the 4:30 position; a heavier buffer or buffer spring is needed.
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My 5.56 is slightly over-gassed so I tried putting an H in over the standard Carbine buffer and it immediately began short-stroking. My 300 BO on the other hand was sending 110 gr's out at 5:30ish, so I put an H3 in just to get it around 4:15-4:30.
Link Posted: 5/1/2022 5:19:04 PM EDT
[#16]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I knoowwww.  I read horror stories about Springfield’s customer service department and people going through the hassle of sending their gun back 3-4 times.  I only have about $130 into “fixing” the issue so far.  And worst case is I have an adjustable gas block on my gun now.  Although it came with a real nice pinned low profile.   But you’re all right about should have had Springfield at least try to sort it out first.   I just hated the thought of sending my new rifle back.
View Quote

My personal experience has been the opposite-- in fact, SA customer service is honestly one of the best customer service departments I have ever dealt with and they have always made things right.
Link Posted: 5/1/2022 5:32:54 PM EDT
[#17]
Link Posted: 5/1/2022 6:29:04 PM EDT
[#18]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I knoowwww.  I read horror stories about Springfield’s customer service department and people going through the hassle of sending their gun back 3-4 times.  I only have about $130 into “fixing” the issue so far.  And worst case is I have an adjustable gas block on my gun now.  Although it came with a real nice pinned low profile.   But you’re all right about should have had Springfield at least try to sort it out first.   I just hated the thought of sending my new rifle back.
View Quote


That's $130 on top of what you already paid for something that should be working without an issue. Sending a rifle back for repair is free (on the manufacturer for return costs).

If their customer service sucks then you know not to buy their product ever again.
Link Posted: 5/1/2022 7:37:21 PM EDT
[#19]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


That's $130 on top of what you already paid for something that should be working without an issue. Sending a rifle back for repair is free (on the manufacturer for return costs).

If their customer service sucks then you know not to buy their product ever again.
View Quote


Yep, that's $130 you could have spent on ammo or other accessories.  And you still haven't sorted the issue out, so you might be throwing away more money in search of a solution.  Or you could save your hard-earned money and send the gun back to SA for warranty service.  Anything beyond this is a further waste of money and time involved in trying to troubleshoot on your own.
Link Posted: 5/1/2022 8:13:58 PM EDT
[#20]
How does your brass deflector look?  Are there any dents/marks on the the ejected cases?  I would try a springco blue or red spring and a heavier buffer and see if that would help.  I'm not sure I would send my rifle back if it was my only one, unless you have other platforms, but that's me.  There is only so much the MFG will do if its in "their" spec, may be a disappointing waste of time.

eta:  if cases are getting stuck, as mentioned above, you may just need to polish the chamber.  Looking at the condition of the ejected cases could help solve your issues.
Link Posted: 5/1/2022 8:33:57 PM EDT
[#21]
It sounds like the extractor is short.  I had this happen with a Lantac bolt (twice).  The case would jam in the bolt face.  You're not ejecting forward solely because it's overgassed.  You're case is stuck, and isn't getting tossed by the ejector fast enough.   The speed of the BCG sends the partially extracted case into the rear edge of the ejection port and flat front edge of the shell deflector.  Thus, the case flies forward instead of back or to the side.  Swap the bolt to verify.  You should have a spare anyway.
Link Posted: 5/1/2022 8:52:48 PM EDT
[#22]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
How does your brass deflector look?  Are there any dents/marks on the the ejected cases?  I would try a springco blue or red spring and a heavier buffer and see if that would help.  I'm not sure I would send my rifle back if it was my only one, unless you have other platforms, but that's me.  There is only so much the MFG will do if its in "their" spec, may be a disappointing waste of time.

eta:  if cases are getting stuck, as mentioned above, you may just need to polish the chamber.  Looking at the condition of the ejected cases could help solve your issues.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
How does your brass deflector look?  Are there any dents/marks on the the ejected cases?  I would try a springco blue or red spring and a heavier buffer and see if that would help.  I'm not sure I would send my rifle back if it was my only one, unless you have other platforms, but that's me.  There is only so much the MFG will do if its in "their" spec, may be a disappointing waste of time.

eta:  if cases are getting stuck, as mentioned above, you may just need to polish the chamber.  Looking at the condition of the ejected cases could help solve your issues.



Quoted:
It sounds like the extractor is short.  I had this happen with a Lantac bolt (twice).  The case would jam in the bolt face.  You're not ejecting forward solely because it's overgassed.  You're case is stuck, and isn't getting tossed by the ejector fast enough.   The speed of the BCG sends the partially extracted case into the rear edge of the ejection port and flat front edge of the shell deflector.  Thus, the case flies forward instead of back or to the side.  Swap the bolt to verify.  You should have a spare anyway.


Everyone is advising him to buy more parts (ie spend more money). If someone gets a Springfield AR-15 then that rifle should function without an issue.

I could understand if he built it part by part, then he would need to spend his own money to resolve issues. But a pre-built rifle should function 100% without an issue out of the box. Nobody should need to buy springs, buffers, bolts, carriers, etc from a pre-built rifle out of the box. You pay that 11% tax and get that warranty for a reason.
Link Posted: 5/1/2022 9:16:16 PM EDT
[#23]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:





Everyone is advising him to buy more parts (ie spend more money). If someone gets a Springfield AR-15 then that rifle should function without an issue.

I could understand if he built it part by part, then he would need to spend his own money to resolve issues. But a pre-built rifle should function 100% without an issue out of the box. Nobody should need to buy springs, buffers, bolts, carriers, etc from a pre-built rifle out of the box. You pay that 11% tax and get that warranty for a reason.
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He asked for input from people with experience, and he's getting what he asked for.  Some say to return it, others have offered diagnostics.  Let him make the decision.  For what it's worth, I don't disagree with the "send it back" mentality.
Link Posted: 5/1/2022 9:19:34 PM EDT
[#24]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
He asked for input from people with experience, and he's getting what he asked for.  Some say to return it, others have offered diagnostics.  Let him make the decision.  For what it's worth, I don't disagree with the "send it back" mentality.
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True but some of us only have a solution of throwing money at a problem.
Link Posted: 5/1/2022 9:58:53 PM EDT
[#25]
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Quoted:


True but some of us only have a solution of throwing money at a problem.
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Not really.  His friends might let him toss a spare bolt in and give it a try.  Some people have those.  Friends...
Link Posted: 5/1/2022 11:08:09 PM EDT
[#26]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Not really.  His friends might let him toss a spare bolt in and give it a try.  Some people have those.  Friends...
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What if his friends don't own firearms? What if his friends own firearms but only own AKs? Can you stick an AK bolt into an AR? What if his friends have ARs but no spare bolts?
Link Posted: 5/2/2022 5:36:20 AM EDT
[#27]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


What if his friends don't own firearms? What if his friends own firearms but only own AKs? Can you stick an AK bolt into an AR? What if his friends have ARs but no spare bolts?
View Quote

Then the OP needs new friends.  
Link Posted: 5/2/2022 9:16:33 AM EDT
[#28]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Did you contact Springfield? There should be a warranty on it and they should fix any problems.
View Quote

Link Posted: 5/2/2022 9:36:37 AM EDT
[#29]
A friend of mine wanted to put an adj block on his Saint… I have removed dozens of FSB’s over the years, but the pin job on the Saint’s block was impossible for me to get out. I have the proper tools, technique etc and in the end I had to use a dremel to cut out the pin which looked like total shit when done.

So beware is my point of the story…

I would try a BRT gas tube first and H3 buffer second if that doesn’t help alone. Then if neither of those work, and adj gas key or Bootleg carrier is an option but I would start to suspect a rough chamber. Melonite process can leave crap behind enough where I have had to polish a chamber with bore paste to clean it up.
Link Posted: 5/2/2022 9:52:18 AM EDT
[#30]
I think the golden rules for any firearms advice should be...

1. Did you buy a pre-built rifle? Send it in for warranty repair. You paid for that warranty. Free is better than spending more money on a rifle that should work out of the box.
2. Did you build it yourself? Let's try X part swap to see if it resolves the issue. If not, let's spend more money on another X part to see if it resolves the issue. Afterall, you don't have a warranty.
Link Posted: 5/2/2022 10:57:47 AM EDT
[#31]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I think the golden rules for any firearms advice should be...

1. Did you buy a pre-built rifle? Send it in for warranty repair. You paid for that warranty. Free is better than spending more money on a rifle that should work out of the box.
2. Did you build it yourself? Let's try X part swap to see if it resolves the issue. If not, let's spend more money on another X part to see if it resolves the issue. Afterall, you don't have a warranty.
View Quote


This^^^

Also, you start asking random people on a forum to help you troubleshoot a rifle problem, you have zero way of knowing what anyone’s qualifications are. Even if they sound like they know what they’re talking about, you have no way to confirm. So you have 15 different people telling you 15 different things to try, some of which might not even be close to helping solve the problem, but you spend money and spend time anyway. Anyone that keeps going down this road on a factory new rifle must have more time and money than actual sense.
Link Posted: 5/2/2022 5:46:02 PM EDT
[#32]
I have a buddy coming to shoot Sunday that I can swap BCGs with,  if that takes care of the issue, I’ll send the AGB back.  I originally thought it could be a bolt issue.  But as I read more and more about ARs, I figured it had to be overgassed as I only have issues when I run the 5.56 white box Federal stuff….   My buddy’s m&p15 ran that ammo flawlessly so I know it had to be something with my rifle.  He also had the idea of swapping parts but me being impatient just started buying stuff.  Like I said before, the $130 I’ve spent so far includes the AGB that will be here tomorrow, which I’m guessing will fix the problem if I’m correct.  If it’s just the bolt tho, i wont swap the block that’s in my gun as it’s a good pinned block.  I do appreciate all input thus far.   EDIT:  The AGB optics planet sent was the wrong port size, so they’re exchanging it, but before I go through the hassle of changing it, I’m going to try the BRT EZ tune gas tube.  Should be here this week, if that solves it, the AGB will go
On my next build..  If the tube doesn’t fix it, the bitch is going back to Springfield for them to sort, which i do agree with everyone who said that’s what I should have done first.  Just hated the thought of sending my new rifle back.
Link Posted: 5/8/2022 3:27:19 PM EDT
[#33]
At my range now, swapped BCGS with my buddy and she runs PERFECT!!!  Couod have put the ejected rounds in a 5gallon bucket!  They all went in the exact same spot!!
Link Posted: 5/8/2022 5:50:58 PM EDT
[#34]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
At my range now, swapped BCGS with my buddy and she runs PERFECT!!!  Couod have put the ejected rounds in a 5gallon bucket!  They all went in the exact same spot!!
View Quote


Good. So you can return everything else you had purchased and send the rifle to Sprinfield to replace the BCG.
Link Posted: 5/8/2022 9:22:56 PM EDT
[#35]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Good. So you can return everything else you had purchased and send the rifle to Sprinfield to replace the BCG.
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This ^^^^^
Link Posted: 5/9/2022 10:51:30 PM EDT
[#36]
Glad the issue was in fact narrowed down to the bolt.  This is a good learning moment for everyone who wanted to choke or add weight to this rifle for no reason.  If someone's rifle is ejecting to 1:30 (and stovepiping) with a H2 buffer unsuppressed, and your first notion is that a factory rifle is overgassed.  You might not have shot a rifle enough to experience worn out extractor / ejector springs.
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