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Posted: 9/9/2004 4:06:31 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/10/2004 8:08:36 PM EST by reddog132]
Last year my agency agreed to let individual officers buy their own patrol rifles for duty use. Several of us went in on a group buy and got the Bushy Patrolmans carbine. My buddy bought a used Bushy from an individual LEO from a different agency recently. Our department policy states that the barrel length must be at least 16 inches. His barrel is only 14.5 inches. The rifle is marked LEO/Gov. only. My chief hasn't decided if he will allow him to carry it on duty or not. First of all can my buddy legally own this weapon as an individual officer? I know LE agencies are allowed to use SBR's for duty but how about LEO individuals owning one? Can someone point in the direction of finding documentation if he can or can not? Tried the ATF website without success and even attempted to place a phone call with them. Here's the pic. His rifle is the top one.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v388/reddog132/Photo2.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v388/reddog132/Photo5.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v388/reddog132/Photo6.jpg

Thanks for the help.
Link Posted: 9/9/2004 4:15:18 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/9/2004 4:19:28 PM EST by DM1975]
If the flash hider on it is permanently attached then it should bring the barrel length to 16 inches(looks like it should at least)... If not the no he can not own it without a tax stamp or the agency purchasing it and letting him use it. I went through the same ordeal when I was a cop.
Link Posted: 9/9/2004 4:17:50 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/9/2004 4:18:59 PM EST by Tex78]
It appears he has a "Vortex" type flash suppressor that may be welded/siver soldered in place. This is comon as the extended length of that type of FS will extend the legal length of the barrel to 16" (if its not removeable)

IIRC unless the carbine is registed as an SBR, and either owned as such with paperwork by the officer or the dept, than it would be in violation.

I'll bet however that the FS is permanently attatched though.

Tex78
Link Posted: 9/9/2004 4:20:36 PM EST
Tell the chief that if the Votex is permanently attached the barrel is considered by Federal Law to be 16+ inches.
Link Posted: 9/9/2004 4:23:00 PM EST
Better yet, show him in writing... I am sure someone here has a copy of the ATF letter stating this.
Link Posted: 9/9/2004 4:24:40 PM EST

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
Tell the chief that if the Votex is permanently attached the barrel is considered by Federal Law to be 16+ inches.



Would like just to tell him that but he needs to see documentation. Thanks for the help guys.
Link Posted: 9/9/2004 5:45:28 PM EST
Are you including the FS in the measurements? The best way to verify barrel length is to ake a small brass rod (or other sub-caliber rod), cut it to 16". Place in barrel of empty weapon with bolt closed. If any of the rod is past the end of the barrel, you must get Tax Stamp for SBR. If the rod is completely in the barrel, that it is OK according to BATFE.

Sarge.
Link Posted: 9/9/2004 10:23:17 PM EST
reddog132,

It should be in with the assorted ATF FAQs, otherwise I would simply call ATF and explain it. It would be hard (even for a Chief) to argue with the ATF on it. It is legal if it is stuck on there. IF it comes off, it is an illegal weapon, and he should get it silver soldered in place, then it is legal again.

Let me know how the other stuff worked out.
Link Posted: 9/10/2004 3:35:52 AM EST
It is 16 inches with the flash suppressor. I've tried for awhile looking in the FAQ on the web site but still couldn't find the info. Left a message for both the Yakima and Spokane field office but no answer yet. Going to meet with the chief today at 1500. Would like to have all my ducks in a row before hand but maybe I can convenice him anyway. Would really like for this guy to start carrying his weapon on duty. Just got off shift. Maybe when I wake up someone will have an answer for me.
Thanks for the replies.
Link Posted: 9/10/2004 8:08:15 PM EST
Spoke with the chief today and he agreed to let the officer carry his weapon on duty after explaining to him the info you guys gave me. HOWEVER...turns out the flash suppressor is not permanently attached to the barrel! My buddy calls an ATF agent and explained how he got the weapon and gave him the serial number. It's believed that the weapon belongs to a police agency that the guy who sold it to him use to work for. (I won't say which agency) ATF agent told him to lock up the rifle and would get back to him on Monday. My buddy calls the guy who sold him the rifle in California. This guy his no longer a cop but is working for a large company and is an upper level employee. He tells my buddy that he bought it from one of his co-workers who use to be on the SWAT team and a AR-15 armorer. My buddy tells me the guy who sold it to him is now freaking out and offered to give him his money back. He also told him he would call the same ATF agent and help with the investigation. This guy thinks that some weapons were sold to several individuals on the SWAT team a few years back and that the co-worker he bought it from switched the upper receiver from one of the department rifles and replaced it with his own. My buddy is a little upset over the whole thing but thinks the guy will make good and give him his money back because.....now the kicker, the guys' dad is a retired ATF agent!hock.gif I'll let yo guys know what happens when I find out more.
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