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Posted: 1/26/2005 8:21:11 AM EST
Just got a SHOT show preview from Scott Samson. Here is his new Aimpoint 3x magnifier mount.
This mount will be on display at the Aimpoint SHOT show booth.
Scott will be on display at the Mounting Solutions Plus booth. Go say "Hi".
I will edit in some details in a few.

Link Posted: 1/26/2005 8:30:51 AM EST
Link Posted: 1/26/2005 8:43:59 AM EST
Link Posted: 1/26/2005 8:59:13 AM EST
That looks VERY nice! But I have to ditto what BookHound said. It looks bass-ackward, but it doesn't appear that it would work at all if you turned it around.
Link Posted: 1/26/2005 9:00:35 AM EST
Link Posted: 1/26/2005 9:17:26 AM EST

Originally Posted By C4iGrant:

Originally Posted By BookHound:
Very cool looking. So, the mount allows you to flip the magnifier out of the way to the left? Can you flip it to the right? I shoot with both eyes open & am a right-handed shooter. It would suck to have the damn magnifier in the way of my left eye.




Not to mention having to get to the CH to clear a jam!


C4



+1, looks interesting, but it seems that it should flip the other way...

Thank for the pics!
Link Posted: 1/26/2005 9:23:35 AM EST
Link Posted: 1/26/2005 9:28:12 AM EST

Originally Posted By NewbHunter:
+1, looks interesting, but it seems that it should flip the other way...



My first thought, as well, but it would be sitting pretty close to the ejection port if it was on the other side.


Thank for the pics!


Ditto.
Link Posted: 1/26/2005 9:32:48 AM EST
I likey! Need right flippage too......
Link Posted: 1/26/2005 9:33:05 AM EST
I think the #17s base could be installed on the mount with the lever on either side. It looks to me like if it was installed the other way it might impede the magnifier's movement when it flipped out of the way.

I can't afford a magnifier anyway. Looks kinda neat though
Link Posted: 1/26/2005 9:43:20 AM EST
Interesting.
Link Posted: 1/26/2005 10:17:32 AM EST
[Last Edit: 1/26/2005 10:26:38 AM EST by Cincinnatus]


It would be pretty tough to open the Aimpoint's rear lens cap, wouldn't it?

Link Posted: 1/26/2005 10:52:33 AM EST

Originally Posted By Cincinnatus:
img.photobucket.com/albums/v373/strick909/SAMM1.jpg

It would be pretty tough to open the Aimpoint's rear lens cap, wouldn't it?



Are you kidding? That's why it flips out of the way! Saves you from the "Duh" moment when you mount the magnifier with the throw lever mount but forgot to flip the cap.
Or you could just remove the cap. I remember seeing a pic somewhere around here like that.
Link Posted: 1/26/2005 11:48:58 AM EST
[Last Edit: 1/26/2005 11:50:36 AM EST by wes1]

Very interesting! I wonder why Mr. Samson went with the ARMs #17 mount. From what I know, you have to get written permission from Dick to use this mounts with your companies product. Things that make you go HMMMMM....


C4




HMMMMM....Samson=ARMS sub contractor?
Link Posted: 1/26/2005 11:50:23 AM EST

Originally Posted By C4iGrant:

Originally Posted By BlammO:
That looks VERY nice! But I have to ditto what BookHound said. It looks bass-ackward, but it doesn't appear that it would work at all if you turned it around.



I think it might be on there backwards as the lever is "technically" facing the wrong direction.


C4



That was my first thought too. BUT . . . looking at the photo with it flipped, it appears that the mounting holes on the magnifier are on the eyepiece end. If the unit were turned 180° then the magnifier would have to be turned too. That would place it WAY forward and necessitate mounting the Aimpoint out on the foreward rail. Even if the magnifier has additional mounting holes on the other end, it would place the unit considerably farther forward if it were turned. However, possessing none of the aforementioned hardware, who am I to say?
Link Posted: 1/26/2005 12:09:06 PM EST
when will people stop making arms products? my gosh... i'll keep waiting
Link Posted: 1/26/2005 1:55:25 PM EST
Link Posted: 1/26/2005 2:12:29 PM EST
That thing is intresting, but I wouldnt buy one.

It needs to flip out of the way(to the right of the rifle)

Also it is odd that the mounting holes for the Magnifiers are so far back on the body.
Link Posted: 1/26/2005 7:29:42 PM EST

It needs to flip out of the way(to the right of the rifle)


If it flipped to the right an ejected shell case might hit the lens.
Link Posted: 1/26/2005 9:08:20 PM EST

Originally Posted By C4iGrant:

Originally Posted By wes1:

Very interesting! I wonder why Mr. Samson went with the ARMs #17 mount. From what I know, you have to get written permission from Dick to use this mounts with your companies product. Things that make you go HMMMMM....


C4




HMMMMM....Samson=ARMS sub contractor?







C4



BINGO!

They also make another company's railed HG, if my sources are right.

-Cap'n
Link Posted: 1/27/2005 3:02:01 AM EST
gotta be Surefire, did I win!!
Link Posted: 1/27/2005 3:48:54 AM EST
Link Posted: 1/27/2005 7:04:21 AM EST

Originally Posted By new-arguy:
that looks like a cool design. You can either just roll it out of the way or throw the lever and remove it. There's probably a hook up somewhere if Samson is using the ARMS lever on their mount and hanging out at the MSP booth. MSP is probably the largest distributor of ARMS gear I know of. I dont think this is bad in any way, I love MSP. I use the all the time and they have about the best and quickest service of anyone we get stuff from.



NAG, If you are going to be at the show this year, check it out and let us know what you think. I know a lot of you guys see a problem with it flipping to the left, but as it has been pointed out, it may have problems with ejection if it were to flip to the right. It may not be as big a deal as some may think it is. Remember, this mount will not be on display at the MSP both. It is in the AIMPOINT booth. I am sure if it was a total piece of crap, Aimpoint would not have anything to do with it.

Now, thes following comments are pure conjecture as I have not put my hands on it yet. But, here are some of my thoughts on it.
The idea with a flip over is a good one. In case of a major malfunction with the magnifier, it can be flipped out if the way in a fraction of the time it would take to remove it via the throw lever. So, even though it is not perfect, (blocking your left side field of view) it is WAY better than blocking your sight. Agreed?
Also, if you were in an urban combat environment and needed to move from outdoors to indoors NOW, you could flip it, make entry, and remove it completely once the first room was cleared. And a good by-product of the left flip is that the magnifier is on the inside of the weapon. It is protected from damage and snagging on objects.
I don't think that we should consider that using the flip feature would be an "all the time, everytime" thing. It would be more like deploying your BUIS. More of a SHTF, you need the magnifier moved NOW kind of thing. Obviously, using the throw lever and removing the magnifier is the way to go if you have time. The flip is for when you really don't have time.
For those of you who have done any kind of "professional" work, you know that options save time and speed saves lives. I know this system is not perfect, but it is also brand new. Over time, it will be modified and perfected as those who use this type of system for a living help to modify the design.

I bet if it said LaRue on the side instead of Samson the first comments would have been more positive...

Link Posted: 1/27/2005 7:24:11 AM EST
Link Posted: 1/27/2005 7:40:57 AM EST
I think you guys might be having the wrong impression of the fold out feature.

I personally believe the 3x magnifier is designed to be used as a full time optic...if you don't need it, flip the lever, remove, and go on.....but for the same reason a BUIS exsists, when your magor optic fails and your under stress/fire and you need to be able to sight your rifle, this alows for very quick acsess to the rear site.

So if you are not about to die, flip the lever and remove, no biggie. If you are then this allows quicker, TEMPERARY acsess to your irons.
Link Posted: 1/27/2005 7:54:24 AM EST
[Last Edit: 1/27/2005 8:08:18 AM EST by strick909]

Originally Posted By BookHound:
I don’t care whose name is on the side of it, from first glance it has some problems. Some of us pointed out to LaRue that the first incarnation of his BUIS had a lever too long – it interfered with operating the charging handle. So the design was modified. As you point out, I’m sure this Samson piece of equipment will evolve over time as well.

It sounds like none of us making observations have actually handled the mount. However, from the impressions of only a few pictures, the mount seems to have some potential issues. I think that’s all we’re doing – pointing out POTENTIAL issues with this.

Add to the issues that this optic APPEARS to just hang off the side. It would be nice if there was some locking feature/detent to prevent the optic from just flopping around. I’d hate for it to flop around in front of my primary optic at a bad time.

Also, the point about the optic being on the “inside” of the weapon assumes a right-handed shooter (who has not had to transition to his left shoulder). That said, my earlier point about the sight being in my left-eye’s line of sight assumes I’m shooting right-handed. This isn’t always the case, but I do shoot right-handed MAJORITY of the time.

Finally, I have doubts that the time difference to throw a lever and remove the entire sight versus pushing a button/throw lever (or whatever is the release) and flipping the sight out of the way is all that much different. That’s something I’d like to try for myself.

I still think it looks very interesting and can’t wait to see one. strick909, please be sure to post your thoughts and observations on this mount after you’ve had a chance to actually examine one in person.



Bookhound,
As you pointed out, LaRue made improvments to their designs and I am sure Samson will as well. You can bet I will post comments once I get my hands on one. So far, no one on this site has touched it yet. It won't be untill after SHOT that the touchy feely reviews come in.
Unfortunatly, I won't see one for a while after that, as I won't be at the show this year.
All I was saying in my post was ALL of the opinions have been conjecture so far. Some things could be major problems and other things may not be a problem at all. And how many SHOT show prototypes never see design changes? Hell, just look at the MRFS. That is on it's third revision.

WS4LIF,
I agree completely.

Link Posted: 1/28/2005 4:38:26 PM EST
Link Posted: 1/28/2005 7:05:28 PM EST

Originally Posted By C4iGrant:
I just got a look at this thing. It is well made, but do have an issue with it blocking the CH when out of battery. I also met Mr. Samson (and no there wasn't a fight).


C4


looking forward to more of your thoughts later. (after all the drinking and gambling of course)
Link Posted: 1/28/2005 8:15:30 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/28/2005 8:15:48 PM EST by Boom]
Link Posted: 1/28/2005 8:19:38 PM EST
Just what the World needed, More shit to stick onto an M4 carbine!
Link Posted: 1/29/2005 12:20:26 AM EST

Originally Posted By garr:
Just what the World needed, More shit to stick onto an M4 carbine!


+1

MN
Link Posted: 1/29/2005 6:45:45 AM EST
Link Posted: 1/31/2005 6:02:49 AM EST
OK, you are shooting this weapon two-eyes open and you need to go to 1x immediately. How is flipping the 3x magnifier over in front of your left eye going to change the picture significantly from having it in front of your right eye?

I guess if the eye relief and exit pupil are somewhat limited, your eye won't see the magnified view and it will just be a piece of gear blocking your left eye's field of view.

Looks like a nice piece of gear; but I see a lot more potential problems with the flip feature than I do benefits. In addition to the charging handle obstruction and potential to obstruct/magnify the left eye view, I'd also be worried that with wear/tear the mount might flip open and closed at inopportune times.

Eh... I try to be open minded with new gear until I get to actually play with it; but this one is testing that resolve.
Link Posted: 1/31/2005 6:09:05 AM EST

Originally Posted By Bartholomew_Roberts:
OK, you are shooting this weapon two-eyes open and you need to go to 1x immediately. How is flipping the 3x magnifier over in front of your left eye going to change the picture significantly from having it in front of your right eye?

I guess if the eye relief and exit pupil are somewhat limited, your eye won't see the magnified view and it will just be a piece of gear blocking your left eye's field of view.

Looks like a nice piece of gear; but I see a lot more potential problems with the flip feature than I do benefits. In addition to the charging handle obstruction and potential to obstruct/magnify the left eye view, I'd also be worried that with wear/tear the mount might flip open and closed at inopportune times.

Eh... I try to be open minded with new gear until I get to actually play with it; but this one is testing that resolve.



Good point.

I think they are trying too hard with the whole "flip' thing.

Simple QR will do the trick.
Link Posted: 1/31/2005 7:02:06 AM EST
Thats not going to work on a SIR system either is it?

Link Posted: 1/31/2005 7:12:23 AM EST
On a SIR reminds me of putting a scope on a carry handle.I'm hoping someone improves the swinging out of the way concept.Not only would you not have to drop it or put it in your pocket while in a hurry,but it would let you use your CQB rifle for run and guns better.
Link Posted: 1/31/2005 8:06:36 AM EST
Link Posted: 1/31/2005 8:30:00 AM EST
Guys/Gals should check out the factory Aimpoint 3x QD Twist mount. The design is smaller, and simplier than others.
Link Posted: 1/31/2005 1:09:11 PM EST
um, i'm sure i'm wrong, but i thought that the magnifier went in front of the aimpoint, so that it didnt enlarge the dot as wel as everythign else??
Link Posted: 1/31/2005 1:29:51 PM EST
I played with it at the show, Aimpoint had it on a twist of mount at there booth. It is really a good idea and doesnt add much weight.
Link Posted: 1/31/2005 6:22:22 PM EST
Link Posted: 2/10/2005 12:32:16 PM EST
Ok, why would someone use a 3x or Nx magnifier on an Aimpoint. The Aimpoint is a 4 MOA sight so at 100 m you'll hit within a 4 inch circle at 300 m you now cover a 12 inch area (width of a man's chest) which gives you center of mass shots all day long.

Now enters a 3x magnifier which takes you to 12 MOA at 100m and 36 MOA at 300m you know have an ocluded target.

Maybe there's something that I am missing here, but if you're engaging targets beyond 400 meters you ought to be doing that through an ACOG or a scope.

Those of you worried about scratching your Aimpoint's glass, simply close the front cover. Unless you need to use the iron sights ofcourse.

Best Regards,

IUD hippie.gif
Link Posted: 2/10/2005 1:45:51 PM EST
Link Posted: 2/10/2005 1:46:36 PM EST
The aimpoint's reticle is still 4moa. If your aimpoint dot is on a silouhette at 300 yards, when you magnify the image, both the reticle and the target will be the same relative size.
Link Posted: 2/10/2005 2:14:56 PM EST

Originally Posted By Boom:
I just realized if you want to use the Samson/Arms mount you have to use a 40L or Troy for a buis. Take a look, that just sucks.

img.photobucket.com/albums/v373/strick909/SAMM1.jpg



good point, but with all that hardware, one would hope there would never be a need for a BU.
Link Posted: 2/25/2005 5:04:34 AM EST

Originally Posted By amuroray:
Guys/Gals should check out the factory Aimpoint 3x QD Twist mount. The design is smaller, and simplier than others.



1 drawback is it requires you to cut through the rubber "armor"...

/S2
Link Posted: 2/25/2005 5:36:01 PM EST
I sure wish Mr. Samson would rotate the mount 180 degrees (to its proper position) to see what it looks like flipped to the right.

Link Posted: 3/17/2005 3:01:18 PM EST

Originally Posted By SULACO2:

Originally Posted By amuroray:
Guys/Gals should check out the factory Aimpoint 3x QD Twist mount. The design is smaller, and simplier than others.



1 drawback is it requires you to cut through the rubber "armor"...

/S2



Also, as an operational scenario. It is far more likely (IMHO) that you will need to quickly transition from high magnification to 1x (i.e. clearing a street then entering a building) that you are likely to quickly need to transition from 1x t o3x (i.e. you have more time to reintroduce the 3x to the weapon as you exit a building and need to go back to long range engagement).

With that being said, the major drawback to the Aimpoint twist mount is that it requires greater time, and dexterity to remove the magnifier when time is more critical. ALSO, you need to have preplanned a storage location for the magnifier. I like the fact that the SAMSON mount keeps the magnifier right on the weapon. No need to find a pocket to stuff it into and with the quick flick of a finger the magnifier is moved out of the way for close in work. And almost just as quick it can be flipped back into battery for use again.

IMHO the benefits or the SAMSON outweigh the drawbacks and overall it beats out the Aimpoint twist mount for functionality.

YMMV.
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