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Posted: 4/17/2016 3:30:35 PM EDT
When shooting my new build with my 75 gr hornady reloads the rifle is 100% reliable, when I switch to wolf 55 gr the rifle pukes. The bolt fails to pick up a new round out of the magazine, I think maybe the bolt is not cycling all the way back each time with the wolf. Granted I do not intend to shoot wolf out of this rifle in mass being as it is an SPR style rifle but I want a rifle that will and should cycle most common ammunition with in reason reliably. The barrel is a Ballistic Advantage 18" mid length gas, and I believe it is a Bravo Co carbine buffer, and I'm thinking that's where I might need to start? Any thoughts or suggestions on troubleshooting this would be much appreciated, thanks
Link Posted: 4/17/2016 3:37:42 PM EDT
Which specific Wolf ammo are you using?...Gold, steel?  Insure that you have a basic carbine weight buffer in there and not an H2.
Link Posted: 4/17/2016 3:44:46 PM EDT
Wolf steel and I know it's trash but still want my rifle to function with it. I'll check the buffer,what do I look for.I assume it will be marked if not a carbine?



Checked and it is a standard BCM carbine buffer
Link Posted: 4/17/2016 4:00:55 PM EDT
If it's Wolf .223 ammo, it is certainly possible that the ammo is not developing enough gas pressure to cycle with that barrel. I haven't chronographed any Wolf .223, but I can say that ejection is definitely weaker than with 5.56 ammo

If you have not already, one thing to try is a good chamber cleaning: CLP and a chamber brush, turn by hand or *slowly* with a drill, then mop out until clean and re-try. That'll remove any cartridge case coating that has transferred, or fouling. that may be slowing up cycling.

Link Posted: 4/17/2016 6:59:42 PM EDT
Break it in with the powerful ammo, then try the Wolf.  If it still won't cycle properly, you are basically stuck having to open up the gas port on the barrel since you already have a standard carbine buffer.  If you had a heavy buffer, I would say try a standard one.
Link Posted: 4/17/2016 10:18:24 PM EDT
I have a carbine length cheap upper that would not cycle wolf.
Very minimal chamber polishing and a T3 buffer and she runs like a top.

Totally reversible would be to try the T3 buffer first.  Chamber polishing cannot be undone but it can also be overdone.
Link Posted: 4/17/2016 10:22:11 PM EDT
Ive had great luck with wolf and tula in various ARs BCM and spikes carbines, Aero precision and PSA middies.  the thing they all have in common is a Spikes St-T2 buffer, the Aero and PSA both have JP extra power spings and the T2 buffer both will run black box wolf and tula.
Link Posted: 4/17/2016 10:40:00 PM EDT
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Quoted:
Ive had great luck with wolf and tula in various ARs BCM and spikes carbines, Aero precision and PSA middies.  the thing they all have in common is a Spikes St-T2 buffer, the Aero and PSA both have JP extra power spings and the T2 buffer both will run black box wolf and tula.
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I'm not questioning your particular results with your specific rifle, but wouldn't that application of the heavier T2 buffer give the OP even more cycling issues with the Wolf steel he's using?  It sounds like he's got enough gas pressure to cycle the heavier, better quality ammo but not enough gas to cycle the lighter Wolf steel pills...with a standard carbine buffer and spring.  Seems like installing a heavier buffer would aggravate that...but maybe I'm misreading or missed something.
Link Posted: 4/18/2016 12:06:51 AM EDT
Wolf steel has kind of a coarse, dry coating. It might be sticking in the mag and slowing it down enough to not feed.

You said it wasn't picking up the next round, right? Might be short stroking, but might be feeding too slow.
Link Posted: 4/18/2016 12:24:05 AM EDT
Im pretty sure i read somewhere that BA barrels have a smaller gas port, therefor it wont cycle under powered ammo reliably.  Not necessarily a bad thing, just pointing it out.
Link Posted: 4/18/2016 1:08:37 AM EDT
I'd try some XM193 and M855 to see if that will cycle. If so, shoot a few hundred rounds of that stuff then try the Wolf Steel cased stuff if you insist on running lower pressured ammo. Only other thing may be to run a lightweight bolt carrier since you're already at the lightest buffer or like someone else suggested, open up your gas port.

Link Posted: 4/18/2016 1:34:22 AM EDT
I also forgot to mention it did run xm193 flawlessly also.
Link Posted: 4/18/2016 1:41:27 AM EDT
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Quoted:
I also forgot to mention it did run xm193 flawlessly also.
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I had a 14.5 middy that wouldn't run steel cased ammo (forgot what brand) but, after 1000 or so rounds, it reliably runs it and locks back on an empty mag. If it runs on XM193, just keep shooting that or similar ammo and then periodically test the Wolf till it functions.

It's going to cost you a few cents more per round but, that's just the nature of various barrel offerings.
Link Posted: 4/18/2016 4:09:28 AM EDT
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Quoted:
I also forgot to mention it did run xm193 flawlessly also.
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What type of magazine are you using?

Again, if it cycles brass ammo just fine, it could be that the dry/coarse steel casings of the Wolf might be causing the magazine to feed slow.

As far as being under gassed, easiest way to tell is to look at the ejection pattern. That usually works. If it throws brass forward, it more gassed, and less gassed if to the rear more. If the brass ejects at 4 o'clock or worse, I'll agree the action most likely cycling slow, and that's usually due to being under gassed.

But if the rounds are binding your magazine because of the rough coating, try a polymer type mag if you have any. Might help.
Link Posted: 4/18/2016 4:20:30 AM EDT
Don't think it's a mag issue the mag is an NHMTG 30rnd, and it feed all said ammo flawlessly in my Colt 6920 on the same outing.
Link Posted: 4/18/2016 4:41:16 AM EDT
Im pretty certain your problem is a combo of small gas port, mid length gas, and under powered ammo.  

This phenom is most commonly found in mid length rifles as carbines tend to be slightly over gassed by nature.

Your best bet is using a lighter buffer or a light weight bolt carrier.
Link Posted: 4/18/2016 6:12:04 PM EDT
OP, for whatever it's worth, I tried some Wolf WPA .233 in my 18" Ballistic Advantage mid-length this morning, and it wouldn't feed or lock back, either. The gas port was probably sized for 5.56 loads, and the Wolf .223 just doesn't produce enough pressure.
Link Posted: 4/18/2016 6:20:54 PM EDT
I'd be ruling out a potential gas leak issue, checking the gas block and the key on the bcg.
Link Posted: 4/18/2016 6:28:41 PM EDT
How many rounds do you have through this gun OP?  It seems like maybe it's the way BA does their gas ports.  However, you may just want to run some more 5.56 through it and get it looser or slicker.  If you are presently at a low round count.  If you are at a high round count, and have the lightest buffer, then there is either a problem, or the gas port is small.  

But really, wolf is pretty underpowered.  Most .223 loads I shoot, like Black hills or Winchester or just about any commercial .223 I've shot, feels quite a bit hotter than Wolf steel.  I guess there are some others that are pretty weak.  PMC gold maybe.  Tula maybe.  So, I'm not sure it's that big of a deal.  I will say this, all my AR's have functioned well with any loads, including brown bear and wolf.
Link Posted: 4/20/2016 7:22:27 AM EDT
My 18" rifle-length Ballistic Advantage barrel with a standard carbine buffer cycles Wolf Gold with no issue, so I doubt it's an under-pressure ammo problem.
Link Posted: 4/20/2016 10:05:28 AM EDT
It sounds like a simple lesson in ammunition quality.
Link Posted: 4/20/2016 11:35:12 AM EDT
Lighter spring, lighter carrier, lighter buffer, or opening the gas port will help. I would start with the buffer/spring--opening up the port should be used as a last resort.
Link Posted: 4/20/2016 11:44:43 AM EDT
Definitely don't switch to heavier buffer as mentioned.  Amazing how many people wrongly think that a heavier buffer is an 'upgrade' in any way.
Link Posted: 4/20/2016 10:58:40 PM EDT
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Quoted:
Definitely don't switch to heavier buffer as mentioned.  Amazing how many people wrongly think that a heavier buffer is an 'upgrade' in any way.
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It can be an upgrade if you are overgassed with a gas port that is too large.  In this instance OP has the opposite problem and needs to either lighten the moving mass - his buffer and or BCG, or use a weaker spring.  If that does not work he needs to have his port enlarged a little.  Port sizes are incredibly variable these days at almost the whim of the manufacturers.  

There is almost an irrational obsession with "soft shooting" midlengths at the expense of reliability over a broader range of commonly used civillian ammo.  I'd rather be a little overgassed and know my rifle can digest everything, even if it cycles a little more sharply.
Link Posted: 4/21/2016 2:12:31 AM EDT
MS556 you're  speaking what I'm thinking, it's not that cheap wolf is  the ammo I plan on using per say, but I feel I want a rifle that will function any commercially available ammo. The rifle only has about 70 rounds through it so I'll start with shooting it quite a bit more as suggested, and try wolf steel at a later point to see if things have loosened up and go from there. Maybe I'm just looking for un nesscery piece of mind, but i like the fact that my Colt 6920 has ran ANY ammo I've ever thrown at it and begged for more, for more rounds than I care to think about or confess
Link Posted: 4/21/2016 2:33:42 AM EDT
So. It works with good ammo, both proper 5.56 and good .223. It fails with undwepowered, ammo that may even have some of the gas going back through the chamber instead of down the bore. Steel doesn't expand to seal the chamber as tightly. It's why a couple mags of steel will get your rifle, to include the lower, dirtier than say 8 mags of most any brass ammo.

Two options.
1. Stop shooting the Wolf stee.
2. Have your gas port opened up to run the weak stuff. Which means it will be overgassed for quality ammo. Keep a spare H or H2 buffer on hand when you use good ammo to avoid beating up your gun, wearing out parts faster than they should, and possibly breaking parts. And adjustable gas block would also allow you to use both without overgassing your system.
Link Posted: 4/21/2016 9:10:39 AM EDT
I am going to second the "Break it in".... new rifles can be tight in so many areas, that trying to fix something now is not the right thing to do.

Wolf steel cased ammo isn't just slower then other stuff... the propellant used is typically a "fast" powder ( cheapest load charge weight ) and as such , Wolf steel sometimes doesn't make enough "gas" to cycle tight new rifles.

Link Posted: 4/21/2016 1:15:09 PM EDT
I would just run some more 5.56 through it.  You may find it will solve the problems after being more broken in.  It appears you don't have a lot of rounds through it.
Link Posted: 4/21/2016 3:25:01 PM EDT

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Quoted:


My 18" rifle-length Ballistic Advantage barrel with a standard carbine buffer cycles Wolf Gold with no issue, so I doubt it's an under-pressure ammo problem.
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Totally irrelevant and also incorrect.

 
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