Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login

Site Notices
Posted: 8/20/2017 10:43:44 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/22/2017 11:22:46 PM EST by TacticalTavorian]
Hey guys. I'm younger in age, 32. And I don't think I have an astigmatism and I don't wear glasses but have a basic question about red dot sights. I'm open to the idea and willing that an astigmatism could be the problem and that it is the most common quickly offered answer but wanted to get all the info I can.

Is it normal to generally always see a little bit of extra light or "Ray's/spider legs" around the reticle of a red dot site ?

In brighter light (i.e. a fully lit room or outside during the day even with some cloud coverage) I don't notice it much or barely notice it but it is still there and minimal. But indoors during dark or dim lighting I notice it almost all the time unless I'm really aiming into a more well lit area.

I know that by having the brightness turned up too much it'll cause bursting or "flare" but I'm talking about be lowest setting in a almost completely dark room I can see the "spider legs" a bit as well, it's noticeable.

I can still see the actual dot and it's defined-ness, but I also see some "extra" light lines surrounding that dot. It seems like spider legs or extra (hazy) lines . It's basically always there but more noticeable in the situations I describe.

Can someone explain this to me and if this is just normal for red dot sights? It seems like it could've merely because light is being directed and reflected of of glass / window.

So basically - is a red dot every perfectly chiseled or defined / sharp like a true circle/dot? Especially in lower light conditions and lower light condition indoors even with intensity or brightness at a very low setting.

EDIT: Also if it helps - again in bright sunlight I almost don't notice it and when I'm indoors in a dark room if I turn on my weapon light (600 lumens) it basicallygoes away completely (if I set the brightness appropriately / at a right level and not absurdly bright.)
Link Posted: 8/20/2017 11:38:06 AM EST
You have an astigmatism.
Link Posted: 8/20/2017 11:48:47 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By trails-end:
You have an astigmatism.
View Quote
If this is the case, whats the remedy? No red dot? Hi with a triangle reticle?

I don't wanna use the BUIS sights to fix it.
Link Posted: 8/20/2017 12:50:52 PM EST
EDIT: Also if it helps - again in bright sunlight I almost don't notice it at all and when I'm indoors in a dark room if I turn on my weapon light (600 lumens) it goes away completely if I set the brightness at a right level and not absurdly bright.
Link Posted: 8/20/2017 1:35:23 PM EST
If accuracy doesn't suffer then you just have to learn to live with it. Indoors at room distances your more than likely looking at minute of bad guy accuracy so you don't need a precise dot.

I have an astigmatism and wear glasses to correct my vision but I still get the dot flare on RDS and fiber optic archery sights. I quit using RDS and learn to live with the flare on my archery sights.
Link Posted: 8/20/2017 1:55:06 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By gunner76:
If accuracy doesn't suffer then you just have to learn to live with it. Indoors at room distances your more than likely looking at minute of bad guy accuracy so you don't need a precise dot.

I have an astigmatism and wear glasses to correct my vision but I still get the dot flare on RDS and fiber optic archery sights. I quit using RDS and learn to live with the flare on my archery sights.
View Quote
Yah I don't think it'll effect accuracy much if at all.
Link Posted: 8/20/2017 1:57:33 PM EST
EDIT 2 / Addtional Info: I still can see the clearly defined dot reticle and area. But surrounding that dot I can see a little bit of a hazey redness/cloud or flare. I'm not taking about seeing multiple reticles or the reticle not being clear or obvious cuz it is, and I'm not getting a "star" effect. There's just some extra haziness of red surrounding it
Link Posted: 8/20/2017 2:50:04 PM EST
Also my wife sees the same thing
Link Posted: 8/20/2017 3:04:46 PM EST
Try 1.0 or 1.25 mild magnification reading glasses. You can get them at the Dollar Store, for a buck a pair.

I'm 60 and use 1.5 to 1.75, otherwise I can see a half-dozen dot cluster when looking through my RDS.

RDS are intended for fast short range shooting and will work fine in that roll even with starburst, Flair's or whatever else you "see". By using weak readers and turning the illumination down I can get excellent results at 200/300 yards.
Link Posted: 8/20/2017 9:53:26 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/20/2017 9:56:30 PM EST by Tigwelder1971]
Link Posted: 8/21/2017 12:38:53 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Tigwelder1971:
What rds are you using?

Cheap sights will do this also.

And to be clear, you are speaking of a red "halo" towards the outer rim of the lens, yes? Not the actual dot?
View Quote
Not sure if you were referring to me but I'm using a Leupold DeltaPoint Pro. So it's not cheap. And I'm not taking about a red halo on the outside rim of the sight. I'm talking about some haziness or Burst surrounding the reticle.
Link Posted: 8/21/2017 4:49:53 AM EST
Link Posted: 8/21/2017 7:45:43 AM EST
I run a DP Pro, too. Like other red dots, it can "bloom" if you turn it up too bright. A RDS should be run at the lowest brightness needed to produce a distinctive aiming point for the light conditions. The DP Pro is capable of being made brighter than full noon time sunlight. Turn it down a bit and see of the bloom disappears.
Link Posted: 8/21/2017 3:09:22 PM EST
Take a picture of it.
Link Posted: 8/21/2017 4:01:35 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/21/2017 7:38:34 PM EST by mr_h]
guess you need to decide what you're comfortable with.

i have a slight astigmatism and inside 100yds it doesnt affect my accuracy to the point i lose confidence in what i'm aiming at.

i do wear my eye glasses more now though and it extended my range out to 200yd. it's pretty amazing what a 2 MOA aimpoint dot looks like with good eyes.
Link Posted: 8/22/2017 6:41:29 AM EST
You know, you could take the DP Pro off the pistol, put it in your pocket, carry it to Walmart/bookstore, where ever, and try on different cheap reading glasses to see if any of them will eliminate the effect you see without the glasses.

Yeah, you'd have to recheck your zero after you put the sight back on the gun, but you'd know pretty quick if a cheap set of glasses would fix the issue.

Good luck.
Link Posted: 8/22/2017 11:58:44 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/22/2017 1:04:27 PM EST by TacticalTavorian]
Thanks for all the advice guys.

I ordered a couple other high quality red dots and an additional DPP to really see if it's the sight or my eyes. I'll check back in this weekend of next week with the results.
Link Posted: 8/22/2017 10:30:54 PM EST
Update: (even tho some are fully convinced it's my eyes / astigmatism.

I used a Barska Red Dot Sight (super cheap) and I noticed almost the exact same effects as my Leupold DPP. Sure this may lead you to think... "This proves it's your eyes that are the problem."

* DON'T STOP READING THERE ^

I also had SIX other guys look through it, and they all saw the exact same thing and we ran a variety of lighting scenarios and environments.

I know it seems "bad" of me to believe it's not my eyes or an astigmatism but that's where I'm at. Furthermore, the fact that my wife saw the same exact thing I did through my DPP also helps towards my case. And then in addition, that 6 other people looked through that Barska sight and saw almost the exact same symptoms... helps my case even more.

With that said, I'm not done yet. I've ordered a replacement/second DPP to test it as well as a Trijicon MRO and a Aimpoint H2 to test soon as well and will have all my buddies look through those as well.

My view and belief is that this is just partially the nature of red dots and the fact that there's light reflecting off of glass that's not etched or magnified. We will know soon enough.
Link Posted: 8/22/2017 11:03:26 PM EST
Did you try reducing the intensity? All red dots will bloom if you crank the brightness up too high for ambient light conditions.
Link Posted: 8/22/2017 11:05:36 PM EST
Take a piece of paper and take a needle and put a hole through said paper. Put your eye up to the hole and look through it at your red dot. Still seeing a flare? Try this with your small aperture on your buis also. Not as effective but the dot should be more of a dot.
Link Posted: 8/22/2017 11:18:53 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By MS556:
Did you try reducing the intensity? All red dots will bloom if you crank the brightness up too high for ambient light conditions.
View Quote
Yes I did. This was with intensity on lowest setting "1".

I Kay not be using all the right words but yes I know what bursting is but this is different. In fact when the dot is very bright and "bursting" the spider legs are actually less noticeable.
Link Posted: 8/23/2017 12:31:37 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By SeanC:
Take a picture of it.
View Quote
This, if you can get the camera focused on the dot. Then compare the magnified image of the dot to what you see.

Get an eye exam. You probably do have astigmatism.
I have astigmatism. I still use RDSs. 2 MOA is good and I only dial the brightness high enough to find the dot well. I wear contact lenses.
Link Posted: 8/23/2017 12:36:04 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/23/2017 12:38:42 AM EST by MeatBag]
If you use a small peep rear sight with it, it should clear it up.

Even a cheapo chinese airsoft aimpoint was a perfect dot for me before. I really doubt it's the sight.
Link Posted: 8/23/2017 1:59:53 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/23/2017 2:02:45 AM EST by sdrake100]
Indoors, under normal lighting condition and the dot set to the optimum brightness, I don't see any "haze" through my Aimpoint T2's or Trijicon MRO. I didn't when I owned an LCO and Aimpoint Pro.

What I do see are little "legs" coming out of the dot due to my astigmatism, as well as a slightly oblong shape, but no "haze". Mine isn't that bad, but I need to wear corrective lenses to take full advantage of my RDS.

If you're noticing the same effect across multiple red dots, it's your eyes dude. And no matter how much you don't want to have astigmatism, you probably do. So go to the doctor and try to get it corrected.

Also, take a picture of the dot through a phone camera and see if the phone's lenses can capture what you're seeing. The phone's "eye" is better than yours, and will display what the dot is supposed to look like.

ETA: After re-reading your post, are these lines connected to the dot itself? Do they radiate out from the dot, or are they just random lines? Is your lens clean and free of scratches?
Link Posted: 8/23/2017 6:58:07 AM EST
Use you camera on your phone and take a photo of the dot. You should see a perfectly round dot. I just went through the same series of questions with my 4 kids and wife with a recently purchased Vortex Sparc II and they all see a halo effect. The camera does not lie. I have astigmatism and so does everyone else in my family. Try a prism red dot and this will not be near as noticeable.
Link Posted: 8/23/2017 7:12:35 AM EST
I do agree it's possible for the issue to be an astigmatism. Especially if I see it through multiple red dots.

I guess I just found it odd that my wife and 6 other friends from all over the country could all see it too.
Link Posted: 8/23/2017 7:21:44 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Paxdad:
Use you camera on your phone and take a photo of the dot. You should see a perfectly round dot. I just went through the same series of questions with my 4 kids and wife with a recently purchased Vortex Sparc II and they all see a halo effect. The camera does not lie. I have astigmatism and so does everyone else in my family. Try a prism red dot and this will not be near as noticeable.
View Quote
I did take pictures of it and finally got it to focus on the dot and the pictures show the "halo" or the hazey excess. But the picture did not show the spider legs.

So yes I can see how this leads to an astigmism being the actual problem. I guess it just seems crazy that my 6 friends but all of the country all see the same "spider legs". The chances of that between all these friends and me seem pretty slim. But there's is a chance.
Link Posted: 8/23/2017 7:22:08 AM EST
Go have your eyes checked. I ended up with glasses a year ago (I'm also 32), after having my eyes checked. Helps me a lot driving at night. Astigmatism in both eyes, and I needed a very slight corrective prescription. I'm surprised now what I wasn't seeing

I have to use Eotechs for red dots otherwise I get the flare that you're talking about.
Link Posted: 8/23/2017 8:00:29 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/23/2017 8:08:56 AM EST by TacticalTavorian]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By TobyLazur:
Go have your eyes checked. I ended up with glasses a year ago (I'm also 32), after having my eyes checked. Helps me a lot driving at night. Astigmatism in both eyes, and I needed a very slight corrective prescription. I'm surprised now what I wasn't seeing

I have to use Eotechs for red dots otherwise I get the flare that you're talking about.
View Quote
Great to know. Thank you.

So if you have an astigmatism, if you run an EOTECH it doesn't do this issue? Is it because it's holographic?

But furthermore... are all the EOTECH issues done with? Or are they still working them out?
Link Posted: 8/23/2017 8:33:06 AM EST
The circle dot on the Eotech is what makes it easier for my eyes to see. It still is 'hazy' but the circle draws my eye into the dot(oval to me) in the middle. I don't own an Aimpoint, but all the ones I have used had an oval shaped dot as well.

I've owned ACOGs and the tritium/fiber optic illumination combo did not have the haze red dots and holographic sights do. Same thing with my NF 1-4, the reticle is very clean with no blurring.
Link Posted: 8/23/2017 9:39:04 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Munzy:
The circle dot on the Eotech is what makes it easier for my eyes to see. It still is 'hazy' but the circle draws my eye into the dot(oval to me) in the middle. I don't own an Aimpoint, but all the ones I have used had an oval shaped dot as well.

I've owned ACOGs and the tritium/fiber optic illumination combo did not have the haze red dots and holographic sights do. Same thing with my NF 1-4, the reticle is very clean with no blurring.
View Quote
Gotcha. My dot def doesn't look like an oval. Just had a little extra something around it. That's the only real way I can describe it.
Link Posted: 8/23/2017 12:08:12 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By TacticalTavorian:


Great to know. Thank you.

So if you have an astigmatism, if you run an EOTECH it doesn't do this issue? Is it because it's holographic?

But furthermore... are all the EOTECH issues done with? Or are they still working them out?
View Quote
It looks a little blurry, but I've tried aim points that look almost like a red smear.

Only problem I've had with my older 512 is one of the battery springs fell out of the battery box. They sent me a new one free of charge.
Link Posted: 8/23/2017 12:37:56 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/23/2017 12:38:10 PM EST by 9divdoc]
take a picture of the reticle and compare that to what you see when you look through the scope
have a couple of friends look through your scope and describe or draw the reticle they see & compare
go to your eye doctor with your scope and tell him what you see and get your vision corrected
astigmatism
Link Posted: 8/23/2017 5:45:32 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By TacticalTavorian:


Yes I did. This was with intensity on lowest setting "1".

I Kay not be using all the right words but yes I know what bursting is but this is different. In fact when the dot is very bright and "bursting" the spider legs are actually less noticeable.
View Quote
Are you sure you have a real Deltapoint Pro?

It has no "1". There are no numbers. The illumination is by push button through a sequence of button pushes up or down, which can be reversed as appropriate. There are eight settings. The lowest (what you are presumably calling "1" would not be visible except only faintly in total darkness. It is too dim at that setting for me to use in my own bedroom in pitch black darkness. It is almost night vision dim, but not quite.

On the other hand, at the maximum brightness setting, which is bright enough to show the dot or triangle against a highly reflective background (think bright tin roof on a barn in full noon time sun), it will have a slight bloom of the image around the edges.

I do wonder if perhaps whatever you are seeing is due to astigmatism. Rotate the optic while looking through it while keeping the dot or triangle centered in your field of view. Do the "spider legs" stay in the same position relative to your eyes, or do they move with the optic as you rotate it?
Link Posted: 8/23/2017 10:52:34 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/23/2017 10:54:03 PM EST by TacticalTavorian]
^ I ordered through optics planet so I assume it would be a real Leupold DPP.

When I say "1" I just used that as a reference for the lowest setting.

And when using the lowest setting I actually thought when I first used it ... "that's a pretty bright lowest setting."

IMO I wish it would go dimmer. I can see the lowest setting in my home with all ceiling light off but all lamps on.

I did the turn it upside down test but can remember my results. If I remember right the spider legs stayed on the bottom or "down".

What does each result mean?
Link Posted: 8/24/2017 8:07:13 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/24/2017 8:08:02 AM EST by MS556]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By TacticalTavorian:
^ I ordered through optics planet so I assume it would be a real Leupold DPP.

When I say "1" I just used that as a reference for the lowest setting.

And when using the lowest setting I actually thought when I first used it ... "that's a pretty bright lowest setting."

IMO I wish it would go dimmer. I can see the lowest setting in my home with all ceiling light off but all lamps on.

I did the turn it upside down test but can remember my results. If I remember right the spider legs stayed on the bottom or "down".

What does each result mean?
View Quote
If the "spider legs" or irregular shape moves with the optic as you rotate it, the optic is probably defective.

If the "spider legs" or irregular shape stays in the same position (you say down) as you rotate the optic, you probably have astigmatism or other eye problem.

If the latter, your optometrist or ophthalmologist can usually correct for this with prescription lenses. I have mild astigmatism, but corrected with prescription lenses.
Top Top