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Posted: 3/29/2006 7:21:03 PM EDT
looking at RRA entry tatical vs CMMG a1 socom m4.
if any one has advice on these two weapons it would be great. I can't decide between the two.
RRA is along wait. CMMG is right down the road. PLEASE HELP!
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 8:01:00 PM EDT
Talk to Jeff at CMMG, they have great service! RRA is nice but if you are close to CMMG I would recomend them.
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 8:10:48 PM EDT
Thanks for the response. I am actually planning a trip to go thier. I'm only about two hours away.
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 8:15:15 PM EDT

CMMG are awesome people, make a great product, and have excellent service. They've bent over backwards for me in the past, and I would not hesitate to buy from them again.

I'd definitely pick them, if I were you.



No slight to RRA intended - they make good stuff too.
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 9:58:20 PM EDT
It doesn't matter where you are CMMG is right down the road, if you need something they're on it quick. Great place to work with.
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 10:09:31 PM EDT
Tough choice. I really like RRA products but CMMG is the company to beat.

They offer anything and everything, and they build it very well.

CMMG can match anything put out by RRA, but not vice versa. I'd give the advantage to CMMG
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 3:06:48 AM EDT
Another vote for CMMG.
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 4:10:08 AM EDT
I myself was in the same boat as you. Choosing between a RRA 20" upper and CMMG 18" 1:8. I went with CMMG. They were more expensive but with gov't profile. M4 ramps, chrome lined, target crown, etc.....it just seemed a better value.


I guess you cant really go wrong with either.
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 4:55:24 AM EDT
My vote is also with CMMG. Great products, shipped quickly, good prices and really great people working there.

Link Posted: 3/30/2006 5:51:29 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/30/2006 5:52:02 AM EDT by metroplex]

Originally Posted By ReaverX:
looking at RRA entry tatical vs CMMG a1 socom m4.
if any one has advice on these two weapons it would be great. I can't decide between the two.
RRA is along wait. CMMG is right down the road. PLEASE HELP!



RRA if you want optional chrome lining, 1/9 twist, any contour you want so long as it is heavy.

CMMG if you want 1/7 twist, whatever profile you want (M4 in this case), F FSB, chrome lined bore and chamber, everything, slightly more expensive.
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 6:00:36 AM EDT
I just ordered a RRA because of the cost difference. Were I that close to Columbia I would have gone CMMG. Also went to the SEMO gun show on the 19th and stopped by their table, WHEW! the gal working the table was absolutely smokin'! Sweet as well. We talked for almost 20 minutes and I had to finally do a tactical retreat to get some shopping done as I had to go to work. Might have stood there for an hour, guns and a beautiful women..............'nuff said.
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 6:00:54 AM EDT
CMMG if cost is no problem. Better quality barrels, lighter weight, excellent customer service. RRA makes great stuff no doubt, but CMMG just has the advantage in M4's. I use a CMMG M4 barrel and everything else RRA. MJD
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 6:30:01 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/30/2006 6:45:40 AM EDT by jwise]
I'm surprised by all the comments saying CMMG was more than RRA. I've found the opposite to be true. I was looking at an M4 clone last fall, and priced the RRA about $100 more than CMMG. I bought the CMMG for $754.

Fantastic rifle! Chrome, 1/7, M4 feedramps, correctly contoured barrel, etc... I couldn't be happier.

I did have to add the side sling swivel, which some (all?) Rock River rifles come with standard. It cost $24.

ETA: I just checked current prices on CMMG's website. They've gone up a bit. $1025 for a standard complete rifle, or $265 + $525 if you're skilled enough to push two pushpins together ($790.) Slightly more for some of their models, but this is their "base" price (their base model is already "good to go.")
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 8:10:58 AM EDT
Thanks for the replies. They have hepled a bunch. Now i gotta make that trip to CMMG.
I admit i am a little suprised that everyone is sideing with CMMG. Well thats why i asled for advice. THANKS..
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 8:14:44 AM EDT
I have just bought a barrel from CMMG, it is 100% top notch!
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 3:21:05 PM EDT
What about CMMG's LPKs? Are they on par with RRA and the other big-namers? I'm looking into a LPK and buttstock along with my Govt 20" from CMMG and I was wondering on the quality of the parts kit.
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 4:21:10 PM EDT
Comparing my RRA Elite CAR A4 currently priced at Eagle for $879, to the CMMG 16” Mid-Length Carbine @ $1,026, I see the following differences for the $147 extra price.

RRA - Front Side Sling Swivel ($24), Hogue Grip ($15), 2 Stage NM Trigger ($80) = $119

CMMG - Forged FSB ($20 ?), cleaning kit ($6 ?), 2nd 30rd mag ($13), sling ($10), 1/7 twist, Gov't profile, and mag particled barrel, mil-spec fire control group, and mil-spec take-down pins ($??). = at least $50

So, as far as actual items purchased are concerned, the RRA is $147 less with $119 extras = $266, CMMG has $50 more stuff RRA doesn't have so the net difference is $216.

That means the question for each of us should be, "Is the 1/7 twist, Gov't profile, and mag particled barrel, mil-spec fire control group, mil-spec take-down pins worth the extra $216?

Since I'm not building a AR for WWIII, the answer to me is no, however, each of us has different criteria for 'want vs need' so its up to each of us to decide which is the better deal.


Link Posted: 3/30/2006 4:25:20 PM EDT
+1 for CMMG

They really are in a differnt leauge than RRA

Better Rifles

and

Even Better Costumer Service.
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 4:32:53 PM EDT
CMMG
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 4:38:38 PM EDT
I bought a A2 upper receiver from them a while back. Sweet! The best fit and finish I have seen as of yet. Go CMMG.
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 5:04:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By JBowles:
+1 for CMMG

They really are in a differnt leauge than RRA

Better Rifles

and

Even Better Costumer Service.

Just what I was gonna say. Also, get the MIDLEGNTH! So much better than the carbine gas system.
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 6:00:29 PM EDT
+1 on CMMG. They make their own LPK and it is awesome, the stock trigger is definately one of the smoothest I have ever felt (not that I am an expert, but I have tried probably 5 different ARs). I now have an assembled lower in the People's Republic of Kalifornia. I got the 4 pos CAR stock and it feels pretty solid. Their lower is super nice too. I am just saving up for an upper now which I will get from CMMG.
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 6:13:28 PM EDT
CMMG.

My only bit of advice is to BUY WHAT YOU WANT FROM CMMG ASAP before their excellent product is sold out.

I have a CMMG 1/7 16 inch midlength barrel, it rocks.

CMMG's quality is outstanding, their customer service is excellent.

You get what you pay for.
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 7:16:12 PM EDT
Thanks for all the great advice. I understand RRA makes a great product, but they are really
taking a beating here. I can't belive the following CMMG is acumilating.
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 7:23:55 PM EDT
Both companies make a nice product. Try talking to someone at RRA and then talk to John or Jeff and tell me which company you want to deal with if you have aproblem. I am not knocking RRA's customer service but CMMG has that special, personable touch. CMMG also makes most of their own parts from uppers, lowers and barrels. I have 2 SBR registered RRA lowers that just happen to sport CMMG uppers. I am now waiting on a new CMMG Krinkov brake that should be here tomorrow.
Link Posted: 3/31/2006 3:10:54 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/31/2006 3:11:48 AM EDT by metroplex]
I didn't need 1/7 twist so I went with Bushmaster. It was slightly cheaper and more readily available. I shoot 99.99% 55gr/62gr ammo so I saw no reason to get 1/7 twist (it was out of stock for weeks). If given a choice between 1/7 or 1/9 at the same price with the same availability, I'd go with 1/7 just for overall compatibility.

Bushmaster barrel:
4150 chrome moly steel
chrome lined bore and chamber
MP tested
5.56N chamber
different profiles available (M4 contour 14.5", 16", gov't profile 20") or HBAR
1/9 twist (which works up to 75 gr as per Bushmaster).

Bushmaster released the latest ammo advisory which specifically calls out certain ammo to avoid (Ultramax reloads), and which ammo they use and recommend: Wolf was one of them. I think Bushmaster is one of the few (if not the only) vendors to allow the use of Wolf w/o voiding the warranty. A lot of vendors throw hissy fits and use the "87 octane in a Mercedes benz" argument to explain why you need to run PREMIUM brass cased ammo through their barrels.

For barrels:
CMMG (1/7) or Bushmaster (1/9)
RRA everything else (receivers, parts, Bolt carrier group, etc...)
Link Posted: 3/31/2006 3:28:24 AM EDT
I have done business with CMMG in the past and their service was great. I just called and spoke with them about building the lightest upper I can. They were willing to weigh some parts and I asked them to just ship the lighter of the two. That is truly personal service. I should have my 7.3 barrel and front sight base early next week.

I also spoke to them about pricing and asked if they could meet another dealers price for the same product. It was explained to me that they provide a good price to dealers and give a discount to LE. As a result they supply many dealers and do not want to cut into their profits or under sell them.

Coupled with the outstanding customer service to me as a regular joe, their dedication to the dealers, and support of LE CMMG will be a business other companies should look up to. I am in the process of obtaining my FFL and will be calling CMMG first to set up and account to sell their products.

I also have RRA products and their quality is right up there. You get what you pay for and sometimes the customer service is worth it.

Mike
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 4:02:28 PM EDT
Anyone had any problems fitting CMMG lowers to other brand uppers and upper halves?

Basically I'm sold on getting my next lower and lower parts group from them, but still undecided on the upper stuff.
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 4:52:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Drav:
Anyone had any problems fitting CMMG lowers to other brand uppers and upper halves?

Basically I'm sold on getting my next lower and lower parts group from them, but still undecided on the upper stuff.

Why are you undecided on their uppers? They are of excellent quality and I would put their barrel accuracy up against any of the other off the shelf type barrel assemblies from other companies. If you are getting one of their lowers you might as well get an uper from them as well. You also can't beat their customer service!
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 4:57:32 PM EDT
CMMG
4150 steel
1/7
M4 ramps
MP tested
SOCOM or Govt under handguards

RRA
4140 steel
1/9
HBAR under handguards

(AFAIK)

Go with CMMG, RRA isnt bad though.


Link Posted: 4/4/2006 5:04:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FlyingFive0:

Originally Posted By Drav:
Anyone had any problems fitting CMMG lowers to other brand uppers and upper halves?

Basically I'm sold on getting my next lower and lower parts group from them, but still undecided on the upper stuff.

Why are you undecided on their uppers? They are of excellent quality and I would put their barrel accuracy up against any of the other off the shelf type barrel assemblies from other companies. If you are getting one of their lowers you might as well get an uper from them as well. You also can't beat their customer service!



+1 (You nailed it...)
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 5:21:13 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FlyingFive0:
Why are you undecided on their uppers? They are of excellent quality and I would put their barrel accuracy up against any of the other off the shelf type barrel assemblies from other companies. If you are getting one of their lowers you might as well get an uper from them as well. You also can't beat their customer service!



The 1:7 twist is the only thing that worries me, honestly. It's been drilled into my head that 1:9 is the best all-around, so I wasn't sure because of CMMG's twist.
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 7:54:34 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Drav:

Originally Posted By FlyingFive0:
Why are you undecided on their uppers? They are of excellent quality and I would put their barrel accuracy up against any of the other off the shelf type barrel assemblies from other companies. If you are getting one of their lowers you might as well get an uper from them as well. You also can't beat their customer service!



The 1:7 twist is the only thing that worries me, honestly. It's been drilled into my head that 1:9 is the best all-around, so I wasn't sure because of CMMG's twist.



I shoot WalMart 45 grain ammo out of my 1/7 CMMG barrel and I can still hit what I am at with no problems.
Of course that's out to about 100 yards.

CMMG has split the difference, they now make a 1/8 barrel.
I got my 18 inch in a 1/8 twist.

Honestly, I think too many people get wrapped up in twist rate and bullet weight.

Buy what you want to guy, because you ARE going to buy different types of ammo, right?

You will have your plinking and bump-firing ammo.

You'll have your semi-target ammo.

You'll have your match ammo.

You'll have your self defense ammo.

And you'll have your zombie killing ammo.

You are not going to be shooting 75 grain Sierra Match Kings for gravel pit rock splitting, just like you are not going to be using Wolf 55 grain ammo for 300 yard match target shooting.

Link Posted: 4/4/2006 8:12:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Drav:

Originally Posted By FlyingFive0:
Why are you undecided on their uppers? They are of excellent quality and I would put their barrel accuracy up against any of the other off the shelf type barrel assemblies from other companies. If you are getting one of their lowers you might as well get an uper from them as well. You also can't beat their customer service!



The 1:7 twist is the only thing that worries me, honestly. It's been drilled into my head that 1:9 is the best all-around, so I wasn't sure because of CMMG's twist.



My 1/7 shoots 45 gr fine out to 100 yards. There is alot better chance that you will need a 1/7 to shoot the heavy bullets that have proven to have good terminal balistics rather than some 40gr cheap varmint bullet anyway.

IMO 1/7 has a slight advantage, but it depends on the mission of the rifle.
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 8:20:22 PM EDT
I have two RRA 16" 'bines which I feel are very fine weapons but I just saw first hand CMMG's quality at a gun show a couple of weeks ago, I dont feel like my RRAs' are inferior but if I had to do over again I'd get the CMMG - definitely no bout a doubt it !
Link Posted: 4/5/2006 2:51:44 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/5/2006 2:57:35 AM EDT by metroplex]
1:9 will stabilize down to 28 gr (PS90 barrels have 6 grooves, 1:9 RH twist, .222"-0.224" 14.8" rifled bore, shoots 28 gr SS195, 32 gr SS190, 40 gr SS196/SS197, 55 gr Sb193).

Unless you shoot a LOT of 75 gr or heavier bullets, there is no NEED for 1:7 twist. There's nothing wrong with wanting one though.

Smith and Wesson's new MP15 uses a 1:9 twist barrel.
1:9 twist works well for 28 gr up to sometimes 75 gr. Bushmaster has advised that their 1:9 twist 20" and 24" barrels will stabilize 75 gr bullets but I know some barrels won't necessarily do it.

I've been very satisfied with my Bushmaster barrels and I'll continue to buy them for future builds. I cannot afford to shoot 69 gr let alone 75 gr TAP or 77 gr Mk 262 Mod 1 on a regular basis, so I cannot justify my absolute need for a 1:7 twist barrel.

Executive summary: If you're tacticool enough to plink with Mk 262, 75 gr TAP,or Black Hills 75 gr, you should get a barrel with 1:7 twist rifling. Otherwise, 1:9 works nicely for the common .223/5.56 loads (45, 55, 62, 69). Given the choice between 1:7 and 1:9 at the same price and the same availability, get the 1:7.
Link Posted: 4/5/2006 4:37:32 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/5/2006 4:39:34 AM EDT by Yojimbo]

Originally Posted By metroplex:

Executive summary: If you're tacticool enough to plink with Mk 262, 75 gr TAP,or Black Hills 75 gr, you should get a barrel with 1:7 twist rifling. Otherwise, 1:9 works nicely for the common .223/5.56 loads (45, 55, 62, 69). Given the choice between 1:7 and 1:9 at the same price and the same availability, get the 1:7.



No need to be tacticool and plink with expensive ammo when using a 1/7 twist barrel because it too will work great with common (45, 55, 62, 69gr) ammo.

Also, given two barrels made with the same materials, features and QC processes there will be no price difference between the 1/9 and the 1/7 barrel.
Link Posted: 4/5/2006 5:47:43 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/5/2006 5:52:16 AM EDT by metroplex]

Originally Posted By Yojimbo:

Originally Posted By metroplex:

Executive summary: If you're tacticool enough to plink with Mk 262, 75 gr TAP,or Black Hills 75 gr, you should get a barrel with 1:7 twist rifling. Otherwise, 1:9 works nicely for the common .223/5.56 loads (45, 55, 62, 69). Given the choice between 1:7 and 1:9 at the same price and the same availability, get the 1:7.



No need to be tacticool and plink with expensive ammo when using a 1/7 twist barrel because it too will work great with common (45, 55, 62, 69gr) ammo.

Also, given two barrels made with the same materials, features and QC processes there will be no price difference between the 1/9 and the 1/7 barrel.



I agree with what you have said, but unless you shoot a lot of 75 gr or heavier bullets, there's no absolute need for 1:7 twist (other than personal preference). CMMGs barrels (1:7) cost more than Bushmaster's barrels (1:9 and optional 1:7), which is where my price comparison comes in. Both are, AFAIK, made of 4150 steel, chrome lined bore and chamber, 5.56x45 chamber, MP tested, etc...

When I built my M4 just a few months ago, I had the option of waiting 1+ month for CMMG's 1:7 barrel which cost about $20-$30 more than Bushmaster's 1:9 barrel, which was already in stock at GDS. Since I never shoot anything heavier than 62 gr, I didn't shed a tear for not getting a 1:7 twist barrel.

For my next build I may get 1:7 if the availability and price was the same.

If I start reloading 5.7x28, I may experiment with the lighter bullets in my ARs (30 gr, 35 gr, 40 gr).
Link Posted: 4/5/2006 5:56:43 AM EDT
Get the CMMG, you won't regret it!

I'm speaking from experience.
Link Posted: 4/5/2006 10:21:35 AM EDT
wow, seems like everyone voted for CMMG. I've been looking at an RRA midlength, but I think I may give CMMG another look.......
Link Posted: 4/5/2006 11:36:40 AM EDT
I have a RRA midlength upper and it shoots very well. I like the quality. It was also one of the only options for midlength when I purchased my upper.
Now that there are more to choose from, I'm looking at Bravo Company's midlength or CMMG's Medcon midlength for the next build for the higher grade barrel steel, 1:7 twist, and lighter weight.

That way I'll have both 1:9 and 1:7, 4140 and 4150 barrels. I'll be able to make a side by side comparison and have all my ammo selection bases covered...and in true arfcom fashion, I'll have gotten both!
Link Posted: 4/9/2006 11:41:31 PM EDT
people are always talking about how great RRA's fit and finish is, how does CMMG compare in that respect?
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 2:47:18 AM EDT

Originally Posted By mco119:
people are always talking about how great RRA's fit and finish is, how does CMMG compare in that respect?



It depends on who makes their upper/lower receivers and parts. I've tried CMT/Stag and the overall fit/quality isn't as good as RRA.
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 3:14:58 AM EDT
Who makes CMMG barrels and what quality steel are they?
Are there bolts and carriers DPMS?
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 3:45:47 AM EDT
They make their own barrels.
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 3:55:11 AM EDT

Originally Posted By metroplex:
They make their own barrels.



They do?
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 4:03:51 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Avenging_Parrot:

Originally Posted By metroplex:
They make their own barrels.



They do?



In the same capacity as Bushmaster IIRC
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 4:06:48 AM EDT
I went back to CMMG's site and priced out a 16" M4 barrel config that was the same as the Bushmaster. I was incorrect in my estimates and I apologize.

CMMG's setup would have cost me $330 shipped.
Bushmaster's 16" M4 setup was $250 shipped. The only difference between these 2 barrel setups is the CMMG had 1/7 twist rifling and the Bushmaster was 1/9 twist.
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 4:26:17 AM EDT
I bought a CMMG govt contour Middy 1/7 twist, I was a little concerned with the accuracy with 55gr since I knew I would primarily be shooting 55gr and 62gr 99% of the time.. I can say I am extremely pleased with the accuracy while utilizing 55gr. I took the rifle to the Silhouette range just last saturday and I was able to pretty consistantly hit out to 300m with my buis and sand bagged on a bench.. I've only run one mag of 62gr through it but wasn't really looking for groups..

John P..
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 8:02:03 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/10/2006 8:29:22 AM EDT by mco119]

Originally Posted By metroplex:

Originally Posted By mco119:
people are always talking about how great RRA's fit and finish is, how does CMMG compare in that respect?



It depends on who makes their upper/lower receivers and parts. I've tried CMT/Stag and the overall fit/quality isn't as good as RRA.



So which companies make their uppers/lowers? Just CMT/Stag?...........
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 8:29:56 AM EDT
I thought CMT made RRA's receivers?
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